Author Topic: [GB] H1 Switches - Sales Beginning Tomorrow  (Read 43301 times)

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Offline smoian

  • Posts: 25
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #150 on: Tue, 05 May 2020, 06:50:43 »
These are legit some of the nicest stock switches I've had the pleasure of building with. Little to no wobble, very smooth, and a quality spring.

Spring is a bit too heavy for my taste, but this is the first switch I've only wanted to spring swap before. Thanks for a great group buy!

Offline Solotov

  • Posts: 337
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #151 on: Tue, 05 May 2020, 07:32:59 »
Received mine today. Very very smooth switch. Springs are definitely needed to be swapped if you don't have biceps on your fingers. Switch do sound hollow, so filming them is a must as it improves the sound a lot.  :thumb:
Flex is love, flex is life.

Offline A.Belousov

  • Posts: 12
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #152 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 04:00:20 »
please let us know when will be in stock again?

also HHHH's discord link is not working, pls update

thanksss

Offline Blvck.-

  • Posts: 26
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #153 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 13:12:02 »
Please let us know if you do another run I missed out.

Offline eniigma

  • Thread Starter
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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #154 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 16:23:02 »
Please let us know if you do another run I missed out.
https://discord.gg/37VDb8f

please let us know when will be in stock again?

also HHHH's discord link is not working, pls update

thanksss
When I have news to share, I'll post an update here  :thumb:

Offline yuki

  • Posts: 12
  • sleep is for the weak
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #155 on: Sun, 24 May 2020, 06:43:51 »
Edit: Looks like it didnt quote the message i was looking at for some reason. Sry about that.
With all of my conversations with durock, everglide (through peak) and with JWK resellers and proxies i've come up with this much:
The differences in the sound of jwk switches comes from 3 factors:
     factory leg lube
     dye content
     retool period (they retool their molds on a cycle, and at the beginning of 2019 they retooled housings to try to reduce the switch top wobble and
     stem wobble)
As for Tangerines, make of this screenshot what you will, I think it may be slightly more explicitly relevant, I have censored the name for obv reasons but the pfp is there, this is through Alibaba.

Online Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1026
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #156 on: Sun, 24 May 2020, 07:30:39 »
Edit: Looks like it didnt quote the message i was looking at for some reason. Sry about that.
With all of my conversations with durock, everglide (through peak) and with JWK resellers and proxies i've come up with this much:
The differences in the sound of jwk switches comes from 3 factors:
     factory leg lube
     dye content
     retool period (they retool their molds on a cycle, and at the beginning of 2019 they retooled housings to try to reduce the switch top wobble and
     stem wobble)
As for Tangerines, make of this screenshot what you will, I think it may be slightly more explicitly relevant, I have censored the name for obv reasons but the pfp is there, this is through Alibaba.


So Tangies V2 are just recolors then, hmm. I wonder why they were described to have a UHMPE blend for the housings... I hope it was something just lost in translation, not a flatout lie. Although on a brighter point those of us who have neglected trying PE stems with Tangie V2 housing because of them being the same material can drop that ideal & give it a try.

Offline ThereminGoat

  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Ohio
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #157 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 12:07:16 »
Edit: Looks like it didnt quote the message i was looking at for some reason. Sry about that.
With all of my conversations with durock, everglide (through peak) and with JWK resellers and proxies i've come up with this much:
The differences in the sound of jwk switches comes from 3 factors:
     factory leg lube
     dye content
     retool period (they retool their molds on a cycle, and at the beginning of 2019 they retooled housings to try to reduce the switch top wobble and
     stem wobble)
As for Tangerines, make of this screenshot what you will, I think it may be slightly more explicitly relevant, I have censored the name for obv reasons but the pfp is there, this is through Alibaba.

Well Yuki, there are a couple of issues with your post and the understanding that you've generated from this conversation. This may help set you a bit more straight:

1. If you attempt to contact JWK as a westerner or English speaker you will automatically be pushed to Durock, which is currently the only western facing producer in JWK's factory. This is just the way that the Chinese manufacturers to business, both in practice and culturally. The fact that you got a response in English that is good tells me your response is from Durock instead of JWK.

2. JWK is the factory. Durock is a manufacturer and/or distributor within the factory. In a great analogy, JWK is to Gateron as Durock is to Zeal.

3. Tangerine V2s absolutely do have their own molds - I've discussed as much with both C3 as well as multiple people at TKC and know for a fact that I new mold was created. In fact, these molds have their own production line at JWK and are *not* used by Durock because they are bought and owned by C3/TKC.

4. Since there is a clear and present separation of JWK and Durock properties given that there is a specific Tangerine V2 production line at JWK, we can assume that its not out of the picture to think that the only line that can support UHMWPE is the one that produces Tangerines. If they don't share molds then why could they share materials? Only further positing an idea - perhaps TKC has a contract with them that would allow *only them* to use UHMWPE. Doesn't sound reasonable? Do consider that Keebwerk has a contract to literally be the only one to have silent tactiles for an entire year - the precedent has been sent.

5. If the claim wants to be made that in fact *no* manufacturer has the capacity to work with UHMWPE - I'd like to point to Invyr's PE stems. If they are being made at the same manufacturing location that made Invyr Pandas (V1 or V3) then they are significantly smaller and have (in general) worse product output than Durock does. If this company is capable of pushing out PE stems, and there is no question of authenticity with them, then its kind of unreasonable to think JWK is incapable.

(And if you send this screenshot to my favorite buddy who I won't name, I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong, mate.)
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 June 2020, 12:12:07 by ThereminGoat »

Offline Zeelobby

  • Posts: 738
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #158 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 12:19:34 »
Edit: Looks like it didnt quote the message i was looking at for some reason. Sry about that.
With all of my conversations with durock, everglide (through peak) and with JWK resellers and proxies i've come up with this much:
The differences in the sound of jwk switches comes from 3 factors:
     factory leg lube
     dye content
     retool period (they retool their molds on a cycle, and at the beginning of 2019 they retooled housings to try to reduce the switch top wobble and
     stem wobble)
As for Tangerines, make of this screenshot what you will, I think it may be slightly more explicitly relevant, I have censored the name for obv reasons but the pfp is there, this is through Alibaba.

Well Yuki, there are a couple of issues with your post and the understanding that you've generated from this conversation. This may help set you a bit more straight:

1. If you attempt to contact JWK as a westerner or English speaker you will automatically be pushed to Durock, which is currently the only western facing producer in JWK's factory. This is just the way that the Chinese manufacturers to business, both in practice and culturally. The fact that you got a response in English that is good tells me your response is from Durock instead of JWK.

2. JWK is the factory. Durock is a manufacturer and/or distributor within the factory. In a great analogy, JWK is to Gateron as Durock is to Zeal.

3. Tangerine V2s absolutely do have their own molds - I've discussed as much with both C3 as well as multiple people at TKC and know for a fact that I new mold was created. In fact, these molds have their own production line at JWK and are *not* used by Durock because they are bought and owned by C3/TKC.

4. Since there is a clear and present separation of JWK and Durock properties given that there is a specific Tangerine V2 production line at JWK, we can assume that its not out of the picture to think that the only line that can support UHMWPE is the one that produces Tangerines. If they don't share molds then why could they share materials? Only further positing an idea - perhaps TKC has a contract with them that would allow *only them* to use UHMWPE. Doesn't sound reasonable? Do consider that Keebwerk has a contract to literally be the only one to have silent tactiles for an entire year - the precedent has been sent.

5. If the claim wants to be made that in fact *no* manufacturer has the capacity to work with UHMWPE - I'd like to point to Invyr's PE stems. If they are being made at the same manufacturing location that made Invyr Pandas (V1 or V3) then they are significantly smaller and have (in general) worse product output than Durock does. If this company is capable of pushing out PE stems, and there is no question of authenticity with them, then its kind of unreasonable to think JWK is incapable.

(And if you send this screenshot to my favorite buddy who I won't name, I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong, mate.)

Definitely makes sense. Just wish some proof would be supplied, that would make all of this go away, basically instantly. Pictures of the new molds, name-redacted back and forths, etc. Like this shouldn't be impossible to do, and would just end all this speculation which has been going back and forth for months. I'm sure TKC, or one of these other connections could just do it, and put this all to rest, no?

Also, I'd honestly not use Invyr's PE stems as an example which a larger company would be OK mass producing. While I've used some and had no issue, they're very inconsistent and tolerances are all over the place. I'd be pretty pissed if i bought those as a pre-packaged switch, especially the occasional binding. Now as a frankenswitch product, i'm fine with it, cause i can pick through them, and use ones that work at minimal cost. As an owner of tangerines, I've never had issues with their stems, which is different from PE stems in my experience.

Offline ThereminGoat

  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Ohio
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #159 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 12:24:52 »
Edit: Looks like it didnt quote the message i was looking at for some reason. Sry about that.
With all of my conversations with durock, everglide (through peak) and with JWK resellers and proxies i've come up with this much:
The differences in the sound of jwk switches comes from 3 factors:
     factory leg lube
     dye content
     retool period (they retool their molds on a cycle, and at the beginning of 2019 they retooled housings to try to reduce the switch top wobble and
     stem wobble)
As for Tangerines, make of this screenshot what you will, I think it may be slightly more explicitly relevant, I have censored the name for obv reasons but the pfp is there, this is through Alibaba.

Well Yuki, there are a couple of issues with your post and the understanding that you've generated from this conversation. This may help set you a bit more straight:

1. If you attempt to contact JWK as a westerner or English speaker you will automatically be pushed to Durock, which is currently the only western facing producer in JWK's factory. This is just the way that the Chinese manufacturers to business, both in practice and culturally. The fact that you got a response in English that is good tells me your response is from Durock instead of JWK.

2. JWK is the factory. Durock is a manufacturer and/or distributor within the factory. In a great analogy, JWK is to Gateron as Durock is to Zeal.

3. Tangerine V2s absolutely do have their own molds - I've discussed as much with both C3 as well as multiple people at TKC and know for a fact that I new mold was created. In fact, these molds have their own production line at JWK and are *not* used by Durock because they are bought and owned by C3/TKC.

4. Since there is a clear and present separation of JWK and Durock properties given that there is a specific Tangerine V2 production line at JWK, we can assume that its not out of the picture to think that the only line that can support UHMWPE is the one that produces Tangerines. If they don't share molds then why could they share materials? Only further positing an idea - perhaps TKC has a contract with them that would allow *only them* to use UHMWPE. Doesn't sound reasonable? Do consider that Keebwerk has a contract to literally be the only one to have silent tactiles for an entire year - the precedent has been sent.

5. If the claim wants to be made that in fact *no* manufacturer has the capacity to work with UHMWPE - I'd like to point to Invyr's PE stems. If they are being made at the same manufacturing location that made Invyr Pandas (V1 or V3) then they are significantly smaller and have (in general) worse product output than Durock does. If this company is capable of pushing out PE stems, and there is no question of authenticity with them, then its kind of unreasonable to think JWK is incapable.

(And if you send this screenshot to my favorite buddy who I won't name, I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong, mate.)

Definitely makes sense. Just wish some proof would be supplied, that would make all of this go away, basically instantly. Pictures of the new molds, name-redacted back and forths, etc. Like this shouldn't be impossible to do, and would just end all this speculation which has been going back and forth for months. I'm sure TKC, or one of these other connections could just do it, and put this all to rest, no?

Also, I'd honestly not use Invyr's PE stems as an example which a larger company would be OK mass producing. While I've used some and had no issue, they're very inconsistent and tolerances are all over the place. I'd be pretty pissed if i bought those as a pre-packaged switch, especially the occasional binding. Now as a frankenswitch product, i'm fine with it, cause i can pick through them, and use ones that work at minimal cost. As an owner of tangerines, I've never had issues with their stems, which is different from PE stems in my experience.

With respect to Invyr PE stems - I used them as an example of a company being able to have the *capability* of using UHMWPE in their molding process. If you disagree with the quality or production standard of that product, that's fine - but it can be made like **** (in your opinion) and still made out of PE

As for the response from TKC - Do consider its like a small handful of people who are saying these things and aren't exactly throwing a big fit. Is it worth TKC's time to go through all of the effort to prove stuff if like 10 people choose not to buy their products? Until someone big and of actual impact or note starts making these claims, it just isn't worth their time to be entirely honest. Someone like me who has nothing better to do? - **** it, I'll reply to all of these threads to help point people out to their misunderstandings.

Offline eniigma

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 524
  • Location: USA
    • Storefront:
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #160 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 12:27:31 »
Edit: Looks like it didnt quote the message i was looking at for some reason. Sry about that.
With all of my conversations with durock, everglide (through peak) and with JWK resellers and proxies i've come up with this much:
The differences in the sound of jwk switches comes from 3 factors:
     factory leg lube
     dye content
     retool period (they retool their molds on a cycle, and at the beginning of 2019 they retooled housings to try to reduce the switch top wobble and
     stem wobble)
As for Tangerines, make of this screenshot what you will, I think it may be slightly more explicitly relevant, I have censored the name for obv reasons but the pfp is there, this is through Alibaba.

Well Yuki, there are a couple of issues with your post and the understanding that you've generated from this conversation. This may help set you a bit more straight:

1. If you attempt to contact JWK as a westerner or English speaker you will automatically be pushed to Durock, which is currently the only western facing producer in JWK's factory. This is just the way that the Chinese manufacturers to business, both in practice and culturally. The fact that you got a response in English that is good tells me your response is from Durock instead of JWK.

2. JWK is the factory. Durock is a manufacturer and/or distributor within the factory. In a great analogy, JWK is to Gateron as Durock is to Zeal.

3. Tangerine V2s absolutely do have their own molds - I've discussed as much with both C3 as well as multiple people at TKC and know for a fact that I new mold was created. In fact, these molds have their own production line at JWK and are *not* used by Durock because they are bought and owned by C3/TKC.

4. Since there is a clear and present separation of JWK and Durock properties given that there is a specific Tangerine V2 production line at JWK, we can assume that its not out of the picture to think that the only line that can support UHMWPE is the one that produces Tangerines. If they don't share molds then why could they share materials? Only further positing an idea - perhaps TKC has a contract with them that would allow *only them* to use UHMWPE. Doesn't sound reasonable? Do consider that Keebwerk has a contract to literally be the only one to have silent tactiles for an entire year - the precedent has been sent.

5. If the claim wants to be made that in fact *no* manufacturer has the capacity to work with UHMWPE - I'd like to point to Invyr's PE stems. If they are being made at the same manufacturing location that made Invyr Pandas (V1 or V3) then they are significantly smaller and have (in general) worse product output than Durock does. If this company is capable of pushing out PE stems, and there is no question of authenticity with them, then its kind of unreasonable to think JWK is incapable.

(And if you send this screenshot to my favorite buddy who I won't name, I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong, mate.)

Definitely makes sense. Just wish some proof would be supplied, that would make all of this go away, basically instantly. Pictures of the new molds, name-redacted back and forths, etc. Like this shouldn't be impossible to do, and would just end all this speculation which has been going back and forth for months. I'm sure TKC, or one of these other connections could just do it, and put this all to rest, no?

Also, I'd honestly not use Invyr's PE stems as an example which a larger company would be OK mass producing. While I've used some and had no issue, they're very inconsistent and tolerances are all over the place. I'd be pretty pissed if i bought those as a pre-packaged switch, especially the occasional binding. Now as a frankenswitch product, i'm fine with it, cause i can pick through them, and use ones that work at minimal cost. As an owner of tangerines, I've never had issues with their stems, which is different from PE stems in my experience.

Here's a list of the known facts:
-Durock is the only known Western distributor for JWK (source: Durock on Alibaba)
-C3 Tangerines have custom molds (source: TKC)
-Durock also has their own molds (source: Durock owns T1, Alpacas, and other molds)
-Durock is not JWK's only customer (source: H1s exist)
-JWK has other customers than Durock (source: H1s)
-Not all JWK molds are accessible by Durock (source: TKC and Durock)

I think it's unreasonable to assume that since Durock is unwilling to put in the time and money for creating a UHWMPE mold (source: I asked them, see screenshot), JWK cannot produce switches with UHWMPE in them.



Offline Zeelobby

  • Posts: 738
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #161 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 12:35:10 »
Edit: Looks like it didnt quote the message i was looking at for some reason. Sry about that.
With all of my conversations with durock, everglide (through peak) and with JWK resellers and proxies i've come up with this much:
The differences in the sound of jwk switches comes from 3 factors:
     factory leg lube
     dye content
     retool period (they retool their molds on a cycle, and at the beginning of 2019 they retooled housings to try to reduce the switch top wobble and
     stem wobble)
As for Tangerines, make of this screenshot what you will, I think it may be slightly more explicitly relevant, I have censored the name for obv reasons but the pfp is there, this is through Alibaba.

Well Yuki, there are a couple of issues with your post and the understanding that you've generated from this conversation. This may help set you a bit more straight:

1. If you attempt to contact JWK as a westerner or English speaker you will automatically be pushed to Durock, which is currently the only western facing producer in JWK's factory. This is just the way that the Chinese manufacturers to business, both in practice and culturally. The fact that you got a response in English that is good tells me your response is from Durock instead of JWK.

2. JWK is the factory. Durock is a manufacturer and/or distributor within the factory. In a great analogy, JWK is to Gateron as Durock is to Zeal.

3. Tangerine V2s absolutely do have their own molds - I've discussed as much with both C3 as well as multiple people at TKC and know for a fact that I new mold was created. In fact, these molds have their own production line at JWK and are *not* used by Durock because they are bought and owned by C3/TKC.

4. Since there is a clear and present separation of JWK and Durock properties given that there is a specific Tangerine V2 production line at JWK, we can assume that its not out of the picture to think that the only line that can support UHMWPE is the one that produces Tangerines. If they don't share molds then why could they share materials? Only further positing an idea - perhaps TKC has a contract with them that would allow *only them* to use UHMWPE. Doesn't sound reasonable? Do consider that Keebwerk has a contract to literally be the only one to have silent tactiles for an entire year - the precedent has been sent.

5. If the claim wants to be made that in fact *no* manufacturer has the capacity to work with UHMWPE - I'd like to point to Invyr's PE stems. If they are being made at the same manufacturing location that made Invyr Pandas (V1 or V3) then they are significantly smaller and have (in general) worse product output than Durock does. If this company is capable of pushing out PE stems, and there is no question of authenticity with them, then its kind of unreasonable to think JWK is incapable.

(And if you send this screenshot to my favorite buddy who I won't name, I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong, mate.)

Definitely makes sense. Just wish some proof would be supplied, that would make all of this go away, basically instantly. Pictures of the new molds, name-redacted back and forths, etc. Like this shouldn't be impossible to do, and would just end all this speculation which has been going back and forth for months. I'm sure TKC, or one of these other connections could just do it, and put this all to rest, no?

Also, I'd honestly not use Invyr's PE stems as an example which a larger company would be OK mass producing. While I've used some and had no issue, they're very inconsistent and tolerances are all over the place. I'd be pretty pissed if i bought those as a pre-packaged switch, especially the occasional binding. Now as a frankenswitch product, i'm fine with it, cause i can pick through them, and use ones that work at minimal cost. As an owner of tangerines, I've never had issues with their stems, which is different from PE stems in my experience.

With respect to Invyr PE stems - I used them as an example of a company being able to have the *capability* of using UHMWPE in their molding process. If you disagree with the quality or production standard of that product, that's fine - but it can be made like **** (in your opinion) and still made out of PE

As for the response from TKC - Do consider its like a small handful of people who are saying these things and aren't exactly throwing a big fit. Is it worth TKC's time to go through all of the effort to prove stuff if like 10 people choose not to buy their products? Until someone big and of actual impact or note starts making these claims, it just isn't worth their time to be entirely honest. Someone like me who has nothing better to do? - **** it, I'll reply to all of these threads to help point people out to their misunderstandings.

But that quote from durock above seems to clearly imply that failure rate would be a reason not consider it. They might have the capability to produce inconsistent stems like Invyr, but clearly they don't want to? And I never said they were made like ****, but i would never mass produce and ship a product like that. Shipping stems is pretty easy to forgive, as it's such a small niche of a niche that even frankenswitches to begin with. That said, your right that it may only be Durock avoiding it, and JWK might be totally on board.

Also, you make it sound like it would be more than just sending an email or contacting JWK (who they must have lines to already). Doesn't sound that hard. I know it's been brought up multiple times in the TKC discord, and other discords as well (not just the one that should not be mentioned ;)). And I'm sorry, but if there excuse is "people will buy them anyway", that's a pretty ****ty reason. People will buy anything these days with the massive demand and limited supply, doesn't mean we should just give every vendor a free pass to say and sell whatever they want.

Again, i don't really care, I like my tangies,  but I would like to know what they are, and it seems easy to clear up. Bigger companies do that in simple support emails for single customers. Feel like i'm not asking to move mountains. But anyway, i have no real dog in this fight so I'll just leave it at that.

Offline yuki

  • Posts: 12
  • sleep is for the weak
Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #162 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 05:42:16 »
Starting out I am not attacking TKC or anyone else, I just want accurate information like the rest of us.

Thank you Goat, I am well aware to whom I was speaking. You may have somehow missed the part where I explicitly stated I was speaking with Durock. Also taking TKC/c3 as a source for correct information about the switches is not proof in the slightest, not that they must be lying. But it would be absolutely stupid to say "the people that stand to benefit from saying so, and whose claims are being questioned say its true therefor it must be". As im sure must be obvious.

As for JWK being the factory, yes once again I am well aware though they produce switches and tooling, Durock are a manufacturer who uses some of
said tooling, that specifically which they purchased/are contracted to use (pdf below with some switch details). Consider this, Durock confers with JWK about creating new tooling for their switches... JWK themselves give switches made with the material a failure evaluation, most likely due to tolerance and consistency/yield issues and say simply its not possible/we wont do it.

This leads me to believe that tangerines v2 are not UHMWPE for two reasons, one you probably already understand admittedly is weak, that being that, if JWK/Durock gives them a failure evaluation, why would tkc have them produced regardless? This one isn't great since its not Durock producing them supposedly but its worth thinking about to an extent.
The second reason, we know from bsun's UHMWPE stem tolerances being poor, that similarly other UHMWPE switch tolerances should also be rather poor, as was stated by them as well as JWK and Durock. Knowing this I have a few questions. For example, A) tv2 have the exact same switch top wobble as other JWK switches, B) they have the exact same tooling marks as other jwk switches, C) they sound practically indistinguishable from other jwk switches which are a mix of nylon and pc, D) they do not look remotely like what UHMWPE is expected to look like,
Most importantly E), they are very consistent from switch to switch, the tolerances seem very good (aside from poor elasticity of major pc content top housings causing switch top wobble), as expected of jwk and durock switches we have seen before. *not* expected from UHMWPE.
Nothing so far leads any of us to believe that they are UHMWPE nor that they have actually any UHMWPE content. So far everything leads us to believe the opposite.

Moving on to Eniigma's kind response,
Quote
Here's a list of the known facts:
-Durock is the only known Western distributor for JWK (source: Durock on Alibaba)
-C3 Tangerines have custom molds (source: TKC)
-Durock also has their own molds (source: Durock owns T1, Alpacas, and other molds)
-Durock is not JWK's only customer (source: H1s exist)
-JWK has other customers than Durock (source: H1s)
-Not all JWK molds are accessible by Durock (source: TKC and Durock)

I think it's unreasonable to assume that since Durock is unwilling to put in the time and money for creating a UHWMPE mold (source: I asked them, see screenshot), JWK cannot produce switches with UHWMPE in them.

1, yes
2, claims from the group that stands to benefit and that has provided no proof is not valid, especially since they themselves dont know how much uhmwpe there "could be" in the switches, based on what they said in their discord, it seems any information they have either is not verifiable by any of us including them, or someone is lying, whether it be them or JWK, I am willing to believe nobody is lying, but its hard to trust tkc, and its hard to trust JWK as well, but i dont think they could both be lying if at all.
3, yes, also leopold surprisingly
4, same statement as before, just inverted for some reason
5, yes

Durock *can* produce uhmwpe, they just refuse to, JWK also *can* for sure, no proof thus far if they do or are willing to or not.

Also finally, in the screenshot i posted, they do clearly say in response to my question only about tangerines v2, that "the advertisement by customers are not controlled by us", not sure if theyre expanding the response to include unrelated switches i have never mentioned to them in conversation, but i doubt they would do that.

Offline zacheadams

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #163 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 10:44:45 »
Sorry to break up this unclear scuffle, but if anyone is looking to part with 65-70 H1 switches, please hit me up.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 12:49:47 »
Sorry to break up this unclear scuffle, but if anyone is looking to part with 65-70 H1 switches, please hit me up.

Same, dm me in disc
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline ThereminGoat

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 17:09:20 »
Starting out I am not attacking TKC or anyone else, I just want accurate information like the rest of us.

Thank you Goat, I am well aware to whom I was speaking. You may have somehow missed the part where I explicitly stated I was speaking with Durock. Also taking TKC/c3 as a source for correct information about the switches is not proof in the slightest, not that they must be lying. But it would be absolutely stupid to say "the people that stand to benefit from saying so, and whose claims are being questioned say its true therefor it must be". As im sure must be obvious.

As for JWK being the factory, yes once again I am well aware though they produce switches and tooling, Durock are a manufacturer who uses some of
said tooling, that specifically which they purchased/are contracted to use (pdf below with some switch details). Consider this, Durock confers with JWK about creating new tooling for their switches... JWK themselves give switches made with the material a failure evaluation, most likely due to tolerance and consistency/yield issues and say simply its not possible/we wont do it.

This leads me to believe that tangerines v2 are not UHMWPE for two reasons, one you probably already understand admittedly is weak, that being that, if JWK/Durock gives them a failure evaluation, why would tkc have them produced regardless? This one isn't great since its not Durock producing them supposedly but its worth thinking about to an extent.
The second reason, we know from bsun's UHMWPE stem tolerances being poor, that similarly other UHMWPE switch tolerances should also be rather poor, as was stated by them as well as JWK and Durock. Knowing this I have a few questions. For example, A) tv2 have the exact same switch top wobble as other JWK switches, B) they have the exact same tooling marks as other jwk switches, C) they sound practically indistinguishable from other jwk switches which are a mix of nylon and pc, D) they do not look remotely like what UHMWPE is expected to look like,
Most importantly E), they are very consistent from switch to switch, the tolerances seem very good (aside from poor elasticity of major pc content top housings causing switch top wobble), as expected of jwk and durock switches we have seen before. *not* expected from UHMWPE.
Nothing so far leads any of us to believe that they are UHMWPE nor that they have actually any UHMWPE content. So far everything leads us to believe the opposite.

Moving on to Eniigma's kind response,
Quote
Here's a list of the known facts:
-Durock is the only known Western distributor for JWK (source: Durock on Alibaba)
-C3 Tangerines have custom molds (source: TKC)
-Durock also has their own molds (source: Durock owns T1, Alpacas, and other molds)
-Durock is not JWK's only customer (source: H1s exist)
-JWK has other customers than Durock (source: H1s)
-Not all JWK molds are accessible by Durock (source: TKC and Durock)

I think it's unreasonable to assume that since Durock is unwilling to put in the time and money for creating a UHWMPE mold (source: I asked them, see screenshot), JWK cannot produce switches with UHWMPE in them.

1, yes
2, claims from the group that stands to benefit and that has provided no proof is not valid, especially since they themselves dont know how much uhmwpe there "could be" in the switches, based on what they said in their discord, it seems any information they have either is not verifiable by any of us including them, or someone is lying, whether it be them or JWK, I am willing to believe nobody is lying, but its hard to trust tkc, and its hard to trust JWK as well, but i dont think they could both be lying if at all.
3, yes, also leopold surprisingly
4, same statement as before, just inverted for some reason
5, yes

Durock *can* produce uhmwpe, they just refuse to, JWK also *can* for sure, no proof thus far if they do or are willing to or not.

Also finally, in the screenshot i posted, they do clearly say in response to my question only about tangerines v2, that "the advertisement by customers are not controlled by us", not sure if theyre expanding the response to include unrelated switches i have never mentioned to them in conversation, but i doubt they would do that.

A. I mean nobody I am aware of has an objective metric for wobble. In my experience, they do have less wobble and especially compared with other JWK switches that would have been being developed around the same time.

B. Again, while some photographic evidence might support this, you probably are referring to injection points? If not and just general tooling, it would stand to reason that if a company has found a best way to make a mold that they would emulate that in future productions, no? No need to reinvent the wheel.

C. Sound is even more subjective than wobble when it comes to comparing switches. This isn't a strong metric in the slightest.

D. What exactly is UHMWPE supposed to look like? Are there not dyes and coloring agents that can make any material look like anything these days?

E. Again, not sure where you are supporting this claim that this is somehow unexpected behavior?

Offline yuki

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 23:20:33 »
Switch top wobble, not just straight up wobble, they have the same characteristic "rattle" that other durock and jwk switches containing the major pc content have. And greatly benefit from films. This makes me think they are either low UHMWPE+pc or simply not UHMWPE to begin with (pc and not nylon because nylon has significantly better elasticity and high nylon content tops dont exhibit this kind of wobble). Hopefully at worst the former. And they are very similar switch to switch, and dont have the massive differences from piece to piece that invyr's UHMWPE stems have, made by bsun who has a reputation for tight tolerances. (i attached a video showing the difference in sound of a stock tv2 and one with a film)

It is unexpected for a switch housing or stem made from UHMWPE to have such consistent tolerances for a number of reasons, for one we know how hard it is seeing how much trouble bsun is having with it. But more importantly, UHMWPE is rather bad for injection molding, due to it being as massive as it is (among other qualities which I am not knowledgeable enough to describe accurately), it does not "flow" when "melted" and is hard to handle. It is very difficult to get consistency from molds and the material is normally made into large blocks and or sheets, then material is removed from said pieces to make it suitable for other applications.

Additionally UHMWPE is a material that is almost completely opaque normally, simply dying it is quite the challenge. Thats what instantly made many of us suspicious of the claim that they were made from UHMWPE, and not instead a mix of it and another material. The colour is one thing, but the high, basically complete transparency is another altogether, without a high content of a non UHMWPE material, this level of clarity through the housings is not achievable. Think of it as similar in look to nylon, gateron ks3x47 milky tops for example are nylon like the normal ks3 but with PC content added to achieve translucency, this also introduces lesser elasticity and after being opened a few times they also begin to 'require' films.

In any case, im glad people are willing to talk about it without hostility, though I think its time the discussion either moved somewhere that isnt eniigma's H1 thread or simply ended. Its clear tkc has no conclusive information and likely will not receive any extra. I dont think its worth for any of us to hound them or jwk or anyone else for said information either. (even if it was, please dont, thats not okay) Regardless, I dont see a point in continuing this without objective proof one way or another so im not going to keep pushing the point, to me what ive brought up so far is enough to warrant me not trusting whats been claimed. And I hope people can make their own decisions with a little more to consider than just company claims.

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #167 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 14:07:27 »
Hey everyone, I think it's time for a little update!

I think it's safe to say that the H1 switches were a success, and they seemed to be generally liked. HHHH passes along his thanks to all of you for all the support.

There is another batch of H1 switches that are currently undergoing manufacturing as we speak, and they should be ready for sale sometime in July!

Thank you all again for all the support! We really appreciate it!

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #168 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 14:08:01 »
.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #169 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 14:10:12 »
Finally! :D

Is this batch the same number of units as the first?
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #170 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 14:11:47 »
Finally! :D

Is this batch the same number of units as the first?
Yeah, there is an overall similar number of switches

Offline FunBox

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #171 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 17:13:19 »
Where will they be for sale this time around? Been wanting to try some heavier springs

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #172 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 17:23:26 »
Where will they be for sale this time around? Been wanting to try some heavier springs

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Same vendors as the first batch!

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #173 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 17:29:17 »
I assume you are going to announce here when the sales go live, like you did before?
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #174 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 17:36:24 »
I assume you are going to announce here when the sales go live, like you did before?
Yep, definitely

Offline dRnRcRr

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #175 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 19:48:42 »
Sweeeet

Offline junwon9710

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #176 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 21:03:15 »
Around how many switches will be available?

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #177 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 21:51:45 »
Around how many switches will be available?
We won't get into specifics about numbers, but a similar number to last time.

Offline mech0nly

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches In-Stock Sale - Complete
« Reply #178 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 22:54:17 »
Hey everyone, I think it's time for a little update!

I think it's safe to say that the H1 switches were a success, and they seemed to be generally liked. HHHH passes along his thanks to all of you for all the support.

There is another batch of H1 switches that are currently undergoing manufacturing as we speak, and they should be ready for sale sometime in July!

Thank you all again for all the support! We really appreciate it!

fingers crossed!
keyboards are keyboards

Offline junwon9710

  • Posts: 11
Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #179 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 22:56:15 »
Around how many switches will be available?
We won't get into specifics about numbers, but a similar number to last time.
Oh Can we know how many were in stock from the first sale?

Offline Boy_314

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #180 on: Fri, 12 June 2020, 23:05:20 »
Around how many switches will be available?
We won't get into specifics about numbers, but a similar number to last time.
Oh Can we know how many were in stock from the first sale?

bro you can't be serious lmao

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #181 on: Mon, 15 June 2020, 07:52:52 »
Hey everyone, another quick update!

Production of the second batch should be wrapping up later this week! Vendors are expected to receive their switches in mid-July!

Offline Blvck.-

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #182 on: Tue, 16 June 2020, 16:41:26 »
Hey everyone, another quick update!

Production of the second batch should be wrapping up later this week! Vendors are expected to receive their switches in mid-July!

Can we get a list of vendors or are they still being figured out?

Offline KaosJ

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #183 on: Tue, 16 June 2020, 17:11:45 »
Hey everyone, another quick update!

Production of the second batch should be wrapping up later this week! Vendors are expected to receive their switches in mid-July!

vendors name ? 

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #184 on: Tue, 16 June 2020, 17:31:48 »
Hey everyone, another quick update!

Production of the second batch should be wrapping up later this week! Vendors are expected to receive their switches in mid-July!

vendors name ?

I think the same vendors as before
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline dRnRcRr

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #185 on: Tue, 16 June 2020, 17:35:30 »
Here's hoping

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #186 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 10:03:17 »
Hey everyone, it's time to start getting excited!  :D

Update 6/26

Production of the second batch is now complete! HHHH expects to receive them sometime next week, and they should be shipped out to vendors very soon! We expect the sales to begin in mid-July. Thanks everyone for your patience!

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #187 on: Fri, 26 June 2020, 10:03:57 »
.

Offline Blvck.-

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #188 on: Sun, 28 June 2020, 06:26:05 »
Hey everyone, it's time to start getting excited!  :D

Update 6/26

Production of the second batch is now complete! HHHH expects to receive them sometime next week, and they should be shipped out to vendors very soon! We expect the sales to begin in mid-July. Thanks everyone for your patience!

Can we have a list of vendors?

Offline okidna

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - More Units Coming Soon...
« Reply #189 on: Sun, 28 June 2020, 07:29:41 »
Can we have a list of vendors?

Where will they be for sale this time around? Been wanting to try some heavier springs

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Same vendors as the first batch!

So it will be ILUMKB, Mykeyboard, and Novelkeys.

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Second Batch Production Complete!
« Reply #190 on: Sun, 28 June 2020, 09:43:45 »
Can we have a list of vendors?

Where will they be for sale this time around? Been wanting to try some heavier springs

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Same vendors as the first batch!

So it will be ILUMKB, Mykeyboard, and Novelkeys.
... and Apexkeyboards, DailyClack, and Letsgetit.io (HHHH’s store). All this info is in the OP as well.

Offline alper_maestro

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Second Batch Production Complete!
« Reply #191 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 15:03:52 »
When can we expect to buy the second batch? This week?

Offline wholypantalones

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Second Batch Production Complete!
« Reply #192 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 16:26:56 »
When can we expect to buy the second batch? This week?

soon™

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Second Batch Production Complete!
« Reply #193 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 19:48:03 »
When can we expect to buy the second batch? This week?
Hopefully next week.

Offline flying1911

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Second Batch Production Complete!
« Reply #194 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 01:35:14 »
Haven't put these on a board but these are surely and by far the smoothest stock switches I've ever tried.
TGR 910 CE | TGR Jane CE | TGR Jane V2 | TGR Jane V2 CE | Keycult OG No.1 WKL | Cherry G81-3100 SAV | IBM Model M SSK

Offline eniigma

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Sales Beginning Tomorrow
« Reply #195 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 18:48:50 »
Hi everyone!

Novelkeys will go live with their stock at noon tomorrow, so be sure to take a look if you're interested! Other vendors should follow suit soon, and we'll make the relevant announcements.

Also, on another note - it has come to our attention that DailyClack proceeded with their sales, and we failed to properly communicate that to you guys. That's our bad, and we'll do better next time. Thanks everyone!


Offline mrpetrov

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Sales Beginning Tomorrow
« Reply #196 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 20:52:18 »
Hi everyone!

Novelkeys will go live with their stock at noon tomorrow, so be sure to take a look if you're interested! Other vendors should follow suit soon, and we'll make the relevant announcements.

Also, on another note - it has come to our attention that DailyClack proceeded with their sales, and we failed to properly communicate that to you guys. That's our bad, and we'll do better next time. Thanks everyone!

oh noes! hobson's choice coming up - both these and silk switches coming online at noon est tomorrow on nk. no way we'll have time to get both into the shopping basket before they both sell out. i gotta somehow choose one as i can't risk missing both...
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 July 2020, 08:09:38 by mrpetrov »

Offline KaosJ

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Sales Beginning Tomorrow
« Reply #197 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 04:32:03 »
Hi everyone!

Novelkeys will go live with their stock at noon tomorrow, so be sure to take a look if you're interested! Other vendors should follow suit soon, and we'll make the relevant announcements.

Also, on another note - it has come to our attention that DailyClack proceeded with their sales, and we failed to properly communicate that to you guys. That's our bad, and we'll do better next time. Thanks everyone!

Do you know any timing for mykeyboard? 

Offline DukeEsquire

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Sales Beginning Tomorrow
« Reply #198 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 11:24:30 »
Wow, it's been 24 minutes and H1, Dry and Silks are all still in stock.

Hobby must be on the decline.

Offline ackzot

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Re: [GB] H1 Switches - Sales Beginning Tomorrow
« Reply #199 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 11:51:13 »
or novelkeys ordered a ton. glad to grab h1 and dry.