Author Topic: Unicomp vs Filco (Read 13261 times)

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 10:14:22 »

Hey everyone! Ive been a long time lurker of these forums, but this is my first time posting, and i have a question to ask you.

I plan on purchasing my first "proper" mechanical switch, after owning a keytronic for a while. However, I am somewhat undecided about which of the aformentioned keyboards is worth my hard earned money.

I know, I know, there are tons of "BS vs MX blue" threads out there, but after viewing a lot of them, I am still somewhat undecided.

Mental Hobbit · « **Reply #1 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 10:49:42 »

Unicomps and Filcos are both great keyboards and well worth their price. And they're totally different.
If that answer doesn't help you, you'll have to be a bit more specific in your questions.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #2 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 11:23:37 »

woops, it looks like i double posted. I have another thread with the smat title and it has more info. Sorry!

Oqsy · « **Reply #3 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 12:20:16 »

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10653

shut 'er down, folks.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #4 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 12:26:29 »

Get the buckling springs. They're cheaper.

washuai · « **Reply #5 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 15:43:40 »

Blues or Unicomps could be too loud for your family. Unless you live in a house with some major insulation sound proofing if your room is right next door to these sleeping people, I'd say that the blues or unicomp are too loud.
Are they light sleepers or average sleepers? If they're the kind of people that can fall asleep at a sporting event, then you might be ok.
You could always use a Unicomp during the day and the evil chicklet by night.
There are cheaper cherry brown (if quiet becomes an issue) and cherry blue alternatives than Filco, but having picked Filco myself, I understand.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #6 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 17:25:53 »

Quote from: ripster;199381

Parents will really enjoy that at Dawn.

lulz

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #7 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 17:27:01 »

Quote from: washuai;199416

Blues or Unicomps could be too loud for your family. Unless you live in a house with some major insulation sound proofing if your room is right next door to these sleeping people, I'd say that the blues or unicomp are too loud.
Are they light sleepers or average sleepers? If they're the kind of people that can fall asleep at a sporting event, then you might be ok.
You could always use a Unicomp during the day and the evil chicklet by night.
There are cheaper cherry brown (if quiet becomes an issue) and cherry blue alternatives than Filco, but having picked Filco myself, I understand.

I think it might be an Iranian thing, but my family is ALWAYS sleeping. I mean, they sleep to 11 on weekends, then do errands, then take a nap, watch soccer, and go to bed at like 9.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #8 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 17:27:52 »

Quote from: ripster;199367

I like this one better.

Answer is easy. Get the most expensive keyboard your parents will pay for.

Actually, this is all coming from my own wallet. I had to mow quite a few lawns for this one.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #9 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 17:29:24 »

I think I'm gonna get a cherry brown board. They seem like they are quiet, without sacrificing any tactility or feel. I was looking at Topre too, but they are ludicrously expensive.

spolia optima · « **Reply #10 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 17:31:00 »

blues can BARELY be heard through thin walls
buckling springs could be heard from above Hitler's bunker. that's how they found him, incidentally.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #11 on:** Sun, 04 July 2010, 18:34:59 »

Brown cherry keyboards are not very tactile. They're just more smooth and require little force to actuate.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 13:43:14 »

Quote from: ripster;199381

Parents will really enjoy that at Dawn.

I don't mind this since I like to wake up early. But, my wife on the other hand is not a morning person.

Quote from: washuai;199416

Blues or Unicomps could be too loud for your family. Unless you live in a house with some major insulation sound proofing if your room is right next door to these sleeping people, I'd say that the blues or unicomp are too loud.

I have to do more test, but I had the feelilng that although buckling spring produces a loud noise, the same noise does not travel far. If I have the door closed, it's not much louder on the other side of the room, unless my mind is playing trick on me.

ch_123 · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 13:45:16 »

Quote from: xsubwayeatfleshx;199458

I think I'm gonna get a cherry brown board. They seem like they are quiet, without sacrificing any tactility or feel.

Ehh... not quite.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 14:05:05 »

Quote from: ch_123;202661

Ehh... not quite.

Quote from: microsoft windows;199489

Brown cherry keyboards are not very tactile. They're just more smooth and require little force to actuate.

If you are coming from a rubber dome keyboard, you run the risk of bottoming out heavily on the Filco with brown Cherries. Also, keep in mind, that they are not totally quiet.

I'm not trying to discourage you. Blue and Brown Cherries are very good. I prefer the Blue Cherries, but that does not mean that I don't appreciate what the Brown ones have to offer.

With time, you'll learn how to type lightly and then you'll be quieter on the keyboard.

ch_123 · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 14:07:26 »

Well, I'm coming from just about any other mechanical switch - the tactility is so subtle that it almost might as well not be there... They're a really mediocre switch design.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 14:14:18 »

Quote from: ch_123;202668

Well, I'm coming from just about any other mechanical switch - the tactility is so subtle that it almost might as well not be there... They're a really mediocre switch design.

Sorry, I was trying to tell the OP that these were two correct quotes.

ch_123 · « **Reply #17 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 14:15:17 »

Oh, carry on the good work so!

itlnstln · « **Reply #18 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 14:49:42 »

A little OT, but someone called my HHKB "too loud" yesterday. I was trying to work during a meeting, but still.

whininggit · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 15:00:16 »

Quote from: itlnstln;202683

A little OT, but someone called my HHKB "too loud" yesterday. I was trying to work during a meeting, but still.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #20 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 15:46:41 »

Quote from: ch_123;202668

They're a really mediocre switch design.

I wouldn't call them mediocre. They're very good switches, but keep in mind that they were not designed primarily to be tactile. They were made as low-force switches, which they are.

niz · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 15:55:43 »

Quote from: whininggit;202689

Wow. I really hope somebody smashed that keyboard over her head.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 16:00:40 »

So are you saying that browns wouldn't be good for me? What do you guys recommend?

Mental Hobbit · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 16:02:33 »

Quote from: ch_123;202668

They're a really mediocre switch design.

I agree. Probably Cherry tried to make a tactile, yet quiet switch, but all they could come up with was a pathetic road bump for tactility. Doesn't mean they're unpleasant to type on, but from a design standpoint, browns and clears are poor.

Blues on the other hand, if you like them or not, are an excellent design.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #24 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 16:21:55 »

Quote from: Mental Hobbit;202703

I agree. Probably Cherry tried to make a tactile, yet quiet switch, but all they could come up with was a pathetic road bump for tactility. Doesn't mean they're unpleasant to type on, but from a design standpoint, browns and clears are poor.

Blues on the other hand, if you like them or not, are an excellent design.

I just did a test with my brother. While i played some AC/DC on medium volume through my speakers with my doors closed, my brother stood in the room next door. He couldn't hear a thing. So I guess sound isn't a problem anymore. So what do you recommend for a first time user? Blues, or buckling springs? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Morning Song · « **Reply #25 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 16:58:16 »

If you want something that looks and feels modern, you probably want cherries. If you don't mind an older style look and want an aesthetic that i can best quantify as "operating a machine", buckling springs are better. BS is also going to be a bit cheaper.

washuai · « **Reply #26 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 16:58:41 »

BS are cheaper (space saving exceptions), deeper toned, higher force, more spill resistant, etc.
Blues cost more, higher pitched, lower forced, less spill resistant, etc.

I'd say make a pros / cons list for each or just go with your gut (or wallet). Either way you're going to get a good board with tactile and audible feedback and you have quite a few options.

Mental Hobbit · « **Reply #27 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 17:07:59 »

Buckling springs or Blues is a matter of personal preference.
Blues are rather light, have a very crisp tactile response, and make a very sharp click noise. BS are rather heavy and have a soft, but strong tactile response. They make a clunk noise on actuation, followed by a spring ping on release.
I like the light crispness of Blues. I prefer clunk over click, but the spring ping of BS gets on my nerves. That's why my everyday board has Blues (in the alpha area, Blacks in the other keys ;P).

As a comromise for typing and gaming, I recommend browns. They are great for both, but feel a bit boring. If you get yourself a board with browns, you'll most likely be a bit disappointed at first, as there's absolutely no wow-effrect in browns. You may learn to appreciate them over time though.

For a teenager short on money, BS might be a good start, as you can get them for (almost) nothing with some effort and luck. For a gamer, a Filco may be better due to NKRO.

Should be a simple choice for you now. :madgrin:

ttz · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 17:50:44 »

When I was an adolescent still living with my family (and that's a good few years ago) I did all my typing (literally at all hours of the day AND night) on an IBM buckling spring (yes, model M of course, the standard on my beautiful - for the times - IBM PS/1). I heard endless complaints about it but in the end they just got used to it. Much more recently, in the office I used to type on the model M but it raised quite a few eyebrows especially when I reached warp speed on instant messaging

. I then got a Filco with blue MXs and, despite the feeling of the thing not being as satisfying as the 'M', there have been no more complaints about the noise and the typing feeling is good enough (I bottom out quite a lot being used to a keyboard that required more force to 'click'). So I think that for a home environment, a Filco won't even be noticed compared to the beautiful ta-clunk of the model M and similar

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 20:52:12 »

Quote from: ttz;202755

When I was an adolescent still living with my family (and that's a good few years ago) I did all my typing (literally at all hours of the day AND night) on an IBM buckling spring (yes, model M of course, the standard on my beautiful - for the times - IBM PS/1). I heard endless complaints about it but in the end they just got used to it. Much more recently, in the office I used to type on the model M but it raised quite a few eyebrows especially when I reached warp speed on instant messaging . I then got a Filco with blue MXs and, despite the feeling of the thing not being as satisfying as the 'M', there have been no more complaints about the noise and the typing feeling is good enough (I bottom out quite a lot being used to a keyboard that required more force to 'click'). So I think that for a home environment, a Filco won't even be noticed compared to the beautiful ta-clunk of the model M and similar

It's funny that you mentionned taking a blue Cherry keyboard to work. I just did the same. For the longest time, I thought that the click would bother my coworkers, that's why I was using my Filco with brown Cherry. It turned out that they are not bothered at all. I've asked the two immediately next to me and they said that they did not really noticed a difference until I mentioned it to them. I asked another cowoker sitting a little bit farther. He said that he only noticed it when I just got in in the morning, then he does not really notice it. I guess it was I who was self-conscious.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 20:55:53 »

Quote from: xsubwayeatfleshx;202715

I just did a test with my brother. While i played some AC/DC on medium volume through my speakers with my doors closed, my brother stood in the room next door. He couldn't hear a thing. So I guess sound isn't a problem anymore. So what do you recommend for a first time user? Blues, or buckling springs? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think it's very hard to tell which switch is going to be better for you. This is a very subjective thing. You'll get 10 different opinions if you ask 10 people. This is probably because each switch is good in its own way. I like blue Cherry the best, but at home I ended using the Topre the most because I type either very late at night or very early in the morning and don't want to wake my wife and daughter up. At work I used to type on brown Cherry but for the past few days, I've been using my blue Cherry keyboard. But if at home during the day I need some inspiration and need to do some free typing for an essay, I like to use my buckling spring or Alps copy ABS M1. In such case, I want something meaty, to borrow Wellington's way of putting it.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 21:52:12 »

Thanks for all your help guys! I was really surprised as to how fast I got intelligent responses. At OCN I would have gotten a ton of Razer Lycosa reccomendations. After talking it over with my parents, we've decided on the Unicomp, just because it's cheaper and looks like it will last longer. I am really excited to try it out! Also, i read somewhere that you could get blank black keys for the customizer. Where can these be found?

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 22:02:48 »

Quote from: xsubwayeatfleshx;202806

Where can these be found?

Check out the various models: Customizer vs Spacesaver. Personally, and again this is just my opinion, I think I should have gotten a spacesaver instead of the Customizer. Others can tell you if one is better than the other. The Customizer has a big footprint.

washuai · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 22:06:36 »

The blank keys are either under accessories, or you include in your specifications. Link to thread of someone who ordered the blank set. Don't worry the blank keys don't cost much extra.

The scary thing about the razer lycosa is that key wear doesn't just mean losing legends, it means having blinding fully lit keys. Because I still want a backlit board and because the numpad is removable, I'd like to buy the Razer Tron board and use it as my PS3 board, or something equally frivolous, but at that price, I could buy a full size Filco (even though I only want without ten key at this point) or a Deck 82, so unless there's some kind of fire sale, I'm gonna have to pass.

mcdonc · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 22:22:30 »

Buying a Customizer from Unicomp is a good idea. I don't suggest the EnduraPro; it's not very sturdy.

Another option is to bid on two relatively recently-made and clean-looking Model Ms over the course of the next week on EBay that are of about the same vintage. I'd suggest sticking with models made after, say, 1995, as older ones seem to need slightly more TLC. Don't pay (including shipping) over $40 apiece for them.

For example, here's one looks OK and the seller claims to have verified that it works OK:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-MODEL-M-KEYBOARD-3-93-date-tested-works-excellent-/220637209807?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item335f00a4cf#ht_600wt_1139

That's from 1993, so maybe a bit older than you might otherwise like.

Then get another one like that one too, like perhaps this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-IBM-CLICKY-KEYBOARD-BLUE-LABEL-MODEL-M-1391401-/190418717189?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2c55d70a05#ht_1633wt_1139

That's a slightly different model, so the parts aren't completely swappable between the two if you got both of those literally. It'd be better to find two with exactly the same part number, even if one is, say, missing keycaps.

In any case, if you budget $80 and buy two, the very worst case scenario is if neither work, you will probably be able to make one working one out of the parts from both. If one works and the other doesn't, that's OK, you'll have some spare parts. If both work, great, now you've got two.

These keyboards last for a very long time; it's unlikely you will need another soon.

Morning Song · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 22:24:21 »

It's a purely cosmetic choice, as i understand it. The customizer has a pretty significant extra footprint which is mostly empty. (It does add some weight--not as much as a real M though)

mcdonc · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 23:04:07 »

This would be a good buy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-1995-IBM-Model-M-Clicky-Keyboard-82G3295-28-/140425638507?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item20b205326b#ht_1183wt_913

I have bought a good number of keyboards from the seller (Brian O'Neill, aka "rarekeyboardstore") and they are always as described.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #37 on:** Thu, 15 July 2010, 09:10:38 »

Thanks for all your recommendations guys. Actually, my parents are against using ebay, because the two times we have, our credit card number was stolen by paypal itself. So they want me to buy new this time. Plus, we called Unicomp and they seemed like trustworthy people. But to get the blank keys, all i have to do is give them an email? From my understanding, the black keys are free, but the gray ones cost extra?

Morning Song · « **Reply #38 on:** Thu, 15 July 2010, 09:13:58 »

Unicomp are a nice company, and they have really good service in my (and many others here) experience.

That said, they charge $25, i think, for a set of keycaps by itself. I have no idea how much (if any) extra it would cost to just get a keyboard with blank black keycaps instead of printed grey ones. It's worth giving them a call on the phone or sending them an e-mail to ask.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #39 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 08:38:57 »

Quote from: kishy;202945

Lolwut?

Define stolen...

Like someone at paypal used our credit card number to buy tv's the first time, and the second time, they bought fishing gear. We called the police and they tracked down the purchases to someone at paypal both times.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #40 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 08:45:27 »

Hm. So I haven't bought the Unicomp yet, but my eyes just fell upon this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823333019&cm_re=mechanical_keyboards-_-23-333-019-_-Product

Any thoughts?

Morning Song · « **Reply #41 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 09:43:02 »

If it's ultraslim, it probably has Cherry ML switches--not particularly well-liked around here... as i understand, it's not any better than scissor switches.

whininggit · « **Reply #42 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 11:00:50 »

Don't take this the wrong way, but was it actually somebody at PayPal who stole your details, or was it simply that you were a victim of a phishing scam, via your PayPal account (which seems a lot more likely). Like I said don't take it the wrong way, but it sounds to me like a matter of miscommunication either between the police and your parents or you and your parents.

You can get some good deals on keyboards via eBay, so I would not rule out eBay and PayPal because of this. I have been using eBay since 2004 and touch wood have not had a single problem.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #43 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 11:06:44 »

Unicomp? Filco?

IBM beats both.

Computer-Lab in Basement · « **Reply #44 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 11:37:15 »

No, becasue IBM currently doesn't make buckling spring keyboards, and Unicomp does. I do know what you mean though, IBM Model Ms are far superior to the Unicomp variations.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #45 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 11:51:50 »

Quote from: whininggit;203332

Don't take this the wrong way, but was it actually somebody at PayPal who stole your details, or was it simply that you were a victim of a phishing scam, via your PayPal account (which seems a lot more likely). Like I said don't take it the wrong way, but it sounds to me like a matter of miscommunication either between the police and your parents or you and your parents.

I was wondering about this too, but did not say anthing as I was afraid of offending the OP. eBay and PayPal have a lot to lose in stealing credit card information. Whoever stole the information was kind of stupid in buying products that have to be delivered somewhere, thus traceable.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #46 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 12:06:37 »

I was actually pretty curious as to what really happened myself, but we got our money back so whatever.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #47 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 12:09:26 »

Quote from: xsubwayeatfleshx;203349

I was actually pretty curious as to what really happened myself, but we got our money back so whatever.

True, the important part was that you got your money back.

xsubwayeatfleshx · « **Reply #48 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 12:14:49 »

In any case, the ultraslim cherry is a bad idea?

chongyixiong · « **Reply #49 on:** Fri, 16 July 2010, 13:00:20 »

Image taken from Diatec website

http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=680

I like this shade of blue though, but to add points to the ongoing discussion.

I have both a Filco Brown and an IBM Space Saving keyboard.
I like them both and would keep them instead of trying to find a better one.
Just as I'm saying this, I have found to have fell in love with the Topre keyboards as I'm typing on a HHKB Pro2 now and the thock sound is deeply satisfying, no idea why.

Just get what you can and accumulate from there, I guess.

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Author Topic: Unicomp vs Filco (Read 13261 times)