Author Topic: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE + GB POSTPONED)  (Read 15907 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline i luv chuletas

  • Posts: 158
Re: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE: TYPING TEST)
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 17 June 2020, 16:19:21 »
Man that thing sounds lovely...

2x2u support with stab cutouts on the plate and you have an absolute little beast.

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
Re: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE: TYPING TEST)
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 18:02:33 »
Hello everyone,

I have a couple words I need to share with you. First of all, I'm immensely grateful for the support you've been showing in the past few weeks - it really means a lot to me!

Thanks to you it has also come to my attention that one of my suppliers has a questionable past. When I first set out on this journey I did so with the intent of building a brand based on dialogue and mutual trust. Now that I'm aware of their wrongdoing, dealing with such a supplier and breaking your trust is something I simply cannot afford to do.

As such, lately I've been talking intensively with NiZ regarding our cooperation - especially about sourcing rubber domes - and I'm happy to announce that we're now just tuning the details of our deal.

Last but not least, I'm pleased to inform that the group buy will start this week!

Some of you have asked me already about the price. This was a hard decision for me as I didn't just want to throw an arbitrary price. So, in order to ensure a fair price is reached and that as many of us as possible can enjoy the Conundrum the group buy will be run in a form of a Vickrey auction. What this means in practice is that all the participants will have to specify the maximum amount of money that they are willing to pay. Based on all the entries a price will be selected and everyone who committed to paying more than the selected price will be charged the lower price. People who specify a price lower than the selected price won't be charged and won't participate in the group buy.

Thank you for your attention and have a nice day!

Offline scoopbb

  • Posts: 198
lol. one proto, no build video, no reviews and cash grab already. 0-100 real quick.

thats gonna be a no from me. good luck

Offline digid3ar

  • Posts: 86
loved this project a first sight, but dont understand why rushing everything without a solid price and a weird auction.

Offline Pyk_

  • Posts: 21
Is this type of auction common? I donít think Iíve ever seen a group buy like this, though I joined the community only a year ago. I definitely donít think you should give it an ďarbitraryĒ price, why donít you price it based on what it costs to produce and how much time you put into it?

Offline dklein

  • Posts: 49
I hope other creators don't follow in your shoes. Vickrey as a form of initial group buy pricing is detrimental to availability in this hobby, unusual for an unproven board/brand, and confusing at the high (for a Vickrey) number of units available. I was interested until this announcement.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 00:16:15 by dklein »

Offline Seoulcialite

  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Seoul, South Korea
    • MechSeoul
I share the same sentiment with the comments made after your announcement of a vickrey auction.

To summarize why it's a bad idea:
  • only one proto
  • no build video
  • no review from a respected community member
  • one typing video
  • first (?) keyboard GB
  • AFAIK, not being ran through a vendor
  • suppliers not finalized

I was really excited for this project but I'm highly disappointed by the latest announcement. My suggestion is to slow things down. You don't have to give an arbitrary price if you run the GB normally. Talk to members of the community who have ran keyboard GBs. They can provide helpful knowledge and advice about how to price your board. With some proper calculations, you come up with a price that covers all the bases (cost of material, cost of manufacturing, cost of fulfillment, buffer against defective units, and profit).
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 06:54:36 by Seoulcialite »

Offline Seoulcialite

  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Seoul, South Korea
    • MechSeoul
<Accidentally posted twice>
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 02:01:18 by Seoulcialite »

Offline Ja3_420

  • Posts: 25
  • Location: Netherlands, Zuid
Why is it vickery? Why not price it at cost + a little profit for extras / yourself?
Seems like you're trying to milk people for as much as possible to be honest.

Offline jonowarren94

  • Posts: 42
Who is going to join a GB where the runner is incapable of adding up the outgoings and adding a margin?

Offline alphabirth

  • Posts: 101
  • Location: Italy
I agree that Vickrey seems like a very poor way to run this particular GB.  As this is a new custom capacitive board, which hasn't been done before, if you as the runner don't know how to price it, how are we as the community supposed to know how to price it?

Offline zekkin

  • Posts: 446
  • Location: New York
  • my entire life was unlimited zekk works
Re: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE: TYPING TEST)
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 07:09:02 »
As I'm trying to run my own group buy, I don't feel it's necessarily right to impose my views on someone else, but there are a few things here that don't feel right.

Thanks to you it has also come to my attention that one of my suppliers has a questionable past. When I first set out on this journey I did so with the intent of building a brand based on dialogue and mutual trust. Now that I'm aware of their wrongdoing, dealing with such a supplier and breaking your trust is something I simply cannot afford to do.

As such, lately I've been talking intensively with NiZ regarding our cooperation - especially about sourcing rubber domes - and I'm happy to announce that we're now just tuning the details of our deal.

First, if you're suggesting that when someone chose to prioritize the treatment and health of a dying family member (while also shipping out whiny kids' keyboards and dealing with everything in-between all at the same time), that this is a "questionable past," without truly understanding the situation, probably coming from random PMs of people who also do not understand the situation, I cannot get behind that.


Last but not least, I'm pleased to inform that the group buy will start this week!

Some of you have asked me already about the price. This was a hard decision for me as I didn't just want to throw an arbitrary price. So, in order to ensure a fair price is reached and that as many of us as possible can enjoy the Conundrum the group buy will be run in a form of a Vickrey auction. What this means in practice is that all the participants will have to specify the maximum amount of money that they are willing to pay. Based on all the entries a price will be selected and everyone who committed to paying more than the selected price will be charged the lower price. People who specify a price lower than the selected price won't be charged and won't participate in the group buy.

Thank you for your attention and have a nice day!

Full on pause here. You don't want to set a price based on R&D, cost of materials, cost of manufacturing, etc; you don't want to set the price arbitrarily, so you think letting the community decide arbitrarily is better? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

I'm going to be completely blunt and honest here -- you (with no history in the community, 20 posts on Geekhack, no working prototype, ambiguous supply chain) doing a Vickrey auction is 100% a cash grab. The irony of your above statement about questionable pasts is comical. The purpose of the Vickrey auction in mechanical keyboards has been perverted from a way for makers who put significant time and effort into their product, to make it something of extremely high quality (and their reputation speaks for itself) to someone who thinks they can just get a quick cash grab off the community.

I urge you to really rethink this whole thing -- take more time to figure things out. Right now it just looks like you're rushing into GB and a high GB price just for the sake of making money. Not the best look.
Daily Driver: Matrix Lab 8xv2.0
TGR-Alice | TGR-Jane v2 | TGR-Jane v2 CE | Kyuu Proto 005 | Seulgi | Seulgi FE | Ogre | Yves | KFE | hbcp | Nunu | Vulcan

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
Thank you for the feedback. I wasn't aware this was going to be an issue. I thought this would actually make it easier both for participants as well as me as for me as the maker. However, I understand your concerns. I encourage everyone to speak out. Like I said in my announcement before, I believe in dialogue and I stand by this statement.

I hope other creators don't follow in your shoes. Vickrey as a form of initial group buy pricing is detrimental to availability in this hobby, unusual for an unproven board/brand, and confusing at the high (for a Vickrey) number of units available. I was interested until this announcement.
I must admit my initial thoughts on Vickrey auctions were quite the contrary. I thought in practice this should actually increase the availability, since it lets the maker evaluate the number of people at different price levels and offer the product at a lower price level by including the bidders from lower levels thus increasing the quantity - and lowering the costs. As you know the more people participate the cheaper it gets.

Custom 40% ortho EC keyboards is already an incredibly specific niche. This means there isn't a lot of people looking to buy such a keyboard and so any additional participant is worth their weight in gold.

I have an idea how much it should cost, however as I've already mentioned there may be a number of people sitting in a slightly lower tier than what I would price it at that might join as a result of running it as a Vickrey auction.

That being said in either case the final price will definitely be much lower that what it would've been if I took the time it took me to get here into consideration, let alone the prototyping costs.


Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 520
Thanks for being so transparent. I'll still join.

Offline i luv chuletas

  • Posts: 158
As far as I know, Vic Auctions are usually left for charity events, or a one off unit from a well coveted and desired brand.

I am seriously confused as to why you would take that route for this, and rushing it for this week no less with pending requests for pcb pictures (given how novel this is) and confirmation of available layouts for the board. Edit: Just saw this confirmation on the top page.

With the amount of people in this community into Ortho, and those curious of EC switches, I see the GB running in a regular format to a relatively healthy MoQ without problem. If ran at a limited quantity format, then this will sell out rather quickly, again, because of how novel it is.

The more accessible you make this to be able to be purchased, the better it is for both consumer and designer.
I for one will be avoiding the Vic format.

Food for thought.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 08:18:36 by i luv chuletas »

Offline alphabirth

  • Posts: 101
  • Location: Italy
Thank you for the feedback. I wasn't aware this was going to be an issue. I thought this would actually make it easier both for participants as well as me as for me as the maker. However, I understand your concerns. I encourage everyone to speak out. Like I said in my announcement before, I believe in dialogue and I stand by this statement.

I hope other creators don't follow in your shoes. Vickrey as a form of initial group buy pricing is detrimental to availability in this hobby, unusual for an unproven board/brand, and confusing at the high (for a Vickrey) number of units available. I was interested until this announcement.
I must admit my initial thoughts on Vickrey auctions were quite the contrary. I thought in practice this should actually increase the availability, since it lets the maker evaluate the number of people at different price levels and offer the product at a lower price level by including the bidders from lower levels thus increasing the quantity - and lowering the costs. As you know the more people participate the cheaper it gets.

Custom 40% ortho EC keyboards is already an incredibly specific niche. This means there isn't a lot of people looking to buy such a keyboard and so any additional participant is worth their weight in gold.

I have an idea how much it should cost, however as I've already mentioned there may be a number of people sitting in a slightly lower tier than what I would price it at that might join as a result of running it as a Vickrey auction.

That being said in either case the final price will definitely be much lower that what it would've been if I took the time it took me to get here into consideration, let alone the prototyping costs.


As excited as I am about the prospect of custom EC boards, the flat refusal here to acknowledge the community's misgivings about running a GB in this format seems quite telling.  I'm afraid that unless something changes towards being more receptive and transparent, I'll be sitting this one out.

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
Re: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE: TYPING TEST)
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 09:19:05 »
Again, thanks everyone for your feedback!

First, if you're suggesting that when someone chose to prioritize the treatment and health of a dying family member (while also shipping out whiny kids' keyboards and dealing with everything in-between all at the same time), that this is a "questionable past," without truly understanding the situation, probably coming from random PMs of people who also do not understand the situation, I cannot get behind that.

I'm not suggesting anything, I wasn't even aware of his problems. I assume you must know him more closely, unlike me. I definitely symphatize with him if that's the case.

What I meant was that aside from people contacting me directly there's evidence both on Geekhack and Reddit that he took some of the cash and some people never heard back from him. This, coupled with the fact that I myself was unable to get any response from him regarding closing our deal on BKE domes resulted in seeking alternatives.

I bet you'll admit it's hard get a full view of the situation when the information flow is obstructed. That being said I must prioritize people participating in my group buy and I take full responsibility for running it. I owe everyone not to make this GB a gamble based on whether someone will or will not respond, however dire their circumstances may be.

Full on pause here. You don't want to set a price based on R&D, cost of materials, cost of manufacturing, etc; you don't want to set the price arbitrarily, so you think letting the community decide arbitrarily is better? How does that make any sense whatsoever?

I must admit - I'm not a marketer or an economist. I'm an engineer. Vickrey auction simply appealed to me as a reliable method of gauging interest with founded mathematical basis.

Ultimately, I believe it's the people that see the real value of a product and say "ooh, that's expensive", "wow, that's cheap". Why not include a mechanism that enables people's voice to be heard and lets them share their valuations?

I'm going to be completely blunt and honest here -- you (with no history in the community, 20 posts on Geekhack, no working prototype, ambiguous supply chain) doing a Vickrey auction is 100% a cash grab. The irony of your above statement about questionable pasts is comical. The purpose of the Vickrey auction in mechanical keyboards has been perverted from a way for makers who put significant time and effort into their product, to make it something of extremely high quality (and their reputation speaks for itself) to someone who thinks they can just get a quick cash grab off the community.

I'm not sure what made you think I didn't put a significant amount of time and commitment to this project and also why the Conundrum is not a product of high quality. Frankly, the very amount of time (2+ years) and commitment I devoted to this project should speak for itself.

Along the way I've made several prototypes and only once I had a working prototype I was satisfied with and was sure myself I can deliver did I start this IC. Speaking of the prototype, you can both evaluate how it behaves as well as how it looks (and it doesn't actually use the cheapest finishes there are, unlike many of the keyboard GBs you can see here).
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 09:34:55 by mewa »

Offline i luv chuletas

  • Posts: 158
Re: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE: TYPING TEST)
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 10:03:35 »
I must admit - I'm not a marketer or an economist. I'm an engineer. Vickrey auction simply appealed to me as a reliable method of gauging interest with founded mathematical basis.
Ultimately, I believe it's the people that see the real value of a product and say "ooh, that's expensive", "wow, that's cheap". Why not include a mechanism that enables people's voice to be heard and lets them share their valuations?

Those who were mainly interested in this has spoken. We, the people, want a standardized GB for this rather than a Vic Auction.

Please make it happen.

Offline Paitupai

  • Posts: 6
Just stumbled upon this IC. Regarding the vickrey, if the main reason is to get more people join the GB by lowering the price (cost) with the increased quantity, maybe you can go with something with tiered price based on the minimum quantity reached? What will happen if the bids are lower than your estimated price? (since there's no min/base price)

Offline walletburner

  • Formerly wokechill
  • Posts: 133
  • Location: Screwston
truly disappointing to watch you ruin the buy like this, gg

Offline Daellin

  • Posts: 36
Am... I going crazy? What he's typing on the keyboard doesn't match the words on monkey-type, and monkey-type definitely tells you if you typed the wrong letter.

Offline p3dstore

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Minnesota
  • Custom 3d Printed Cases and More
    • P3D Store
I was very interested in this but echoing the many comments questioning why in the world you would do the auction style this way. Absolute insanity. I hope you give this a rethink and deliver actual costs as well as more info on the board itself.

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
Am... I going crazy? What he's typing on the keyboard doesn't match the words on monkey-type, and monkey-type definitely tells you if you typed the wrong letter.

The layout I use is Colemak-DH, that's why ;)

Offline tominabox1

  • Posts: 224
Am... I going crazy? What he's typing on the keyboard doesn't match the words on monkey-type, and monkey-type definitely tells you if you typed the wrong letter.

OP is using Colemak modDH as noted in the video description, appears to be accurate typing from a fellow colemak user.

Also super opposed to Vickery auction, what is the point? it just makes you more money and doesn't really offer the community any benefit at all
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 June 2020, 10:31:24 by tominabox1 »

Offline dingusxmcgee

  • Posts: 79
  • Location: West MI
edit - removing this as i feel like it was a bit of a "bullying" comment. This is what I want the record to say: Good luck with the project :)
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 June 2020, 22:21:45 by dingusxmcgee »

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
I understand this is somewhat of a hot topic right now and that the majority of you who have posted so far are against the idea. At the same time not everyone who has an opinion posts here. As such I have created this short form where you can express you preferences.

Thank you for your understanding!

Offline huey

  • Posts: 42
  • Location: UK
Thank you for keeping an open mind and giving people a choice.

Offline p3dstore

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Minnesota
  • Custom 3d Printed Cases and More
    • P3D Store
This form is basically a Vickery Auction without the sale.

It is lacking real feedback options. The fact this has even gone this far is pretty bad and is looking to be more and more of a cash grab. Unless things change I won't touch this with a ten foot pole.

Offline wilarseny

  • Posts: 96
  • Location: Seattle
OP, is your interest in running a Vickrey more because of the price discovery aspect -- as your previous post seems to indicate w/r/t "letting people's voices be heard" -- or just so that you can get more money? If it's the former, why not commit to donate any money received from the Vickrey above cost of materials/time to charity? If it's the latter, I think people would respect it more if you just came out and said that you would like more money.

I think there's a good reason to run Vickreys more often for standard keyboard GBs -- more boards go to people who actually want them, reduces incentive to join just to arbitrage on a cheap GB price to flip later. "I would like more money" probably doesn't meet most people's criteria for a good reason. But it would at least be honest, if that's the rationale.

Offline epid

  • Posts: 3
Yeah, I'm not participating in a Vickery with an unknown entity for an unproven board.

Offline i luv chuletas

  • Posts: 158
At the same time not everyone who has an opinion posts here.

Lol just post it on the 40's discord channel and/or Reddit and see what happens. 

Also the form itself is almost like a band-aid over the problem, but I respect it. Though you should really have a feedback portion in it, otherwise it's kind of just accentuating the problem.

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
Also the form itself is almost like a band-aid over the problem, but I respect it. Though you should really have a feedback portion in it, otherwise it's kind of just accentuating the problem.

Thanks, it was possible to add feedback via "Add other" option, but I created a separate field to make it clear.

Offline lizardsticks

  • Posts: 15
Yeah. I've been keeping an eye out for this.

But I'm opposed to the vickery auction.

If that ends up being the route for this keyboard, you can count me out.

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 11509
  • Location: RSTLN E
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
this is the shadiest **** i've seen in a while

i endorsed this board on my stream because i thought it was cool but this is perhaps the worst idea i have seen in very long time

a thousand times no

front the money and act as a vendor, or take money up front and make the boards, don't be weak about it, running a group buy is hard and not just a cash grab

surprise surprise, no such thing as free money

i condemn anyone who supports this idea
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | TGR Alice | Qlavier Ti/Acryl Alice

if you're actually reading other people's posts on geekhack in 2020 you're doing something wrong

"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV (fk u)

Offline widdlekitty

  • Posts: 406
  • Location: Chicago, IL
yikes

Offline walletburner

  • Formerly wokechill
  • Posts: 133
  • Location: Screwston
Re: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE: TYPING TEST)
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 22 June 2020, 16:18:14 »
When I first set out on this journey I did so with the intent of building a brand based on dialogue and mutual trust.

lol RIP to that

Offline Pyk_

  • Posts: 21
Iím honestly curious, how is the auction better than a tiered price based on quantity? If you are serious about charging as little as possible by including more people, wouldnít they both end up with the same price? The only difference I see is that the auction allows you to be dishonest if you choose while a set price does not.

Offline iNViSiBiLiTi

  • Posts: 167
Can't everyone just bid $5 for the board?
60%: Prophet, idb60, GSKT-00, Weaven

TKL: Acrylic Unicorn, Jane V2 WK, Jane CE V2, KFE, Mira SE, Noxary 280

Bulgogi Board (VA104M)

Offline Ja3_420

  • Posts: 25
  • Location: Netherlands, Zuid
Re: [IC] Conundrum - 40% ortho, QMK, EC (UPDATE: TYPING TEST)
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 23 June 2020, 04:15:21 »
Some of you have asked me already about the price. This was a hard decision for me as I didn't just want to throw an arbitrary price. So, in order to ensure a fair price is reached and that as many of us as possible can enjoy the Conundrum the group buy will be run in a form of a Vickrey auction.
This is not a fair price. You are using fomo to drive up the price and vickery too see how much you can charge people.

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
Hi everyone,

Following the heated discussion and the poll yesterday, the community has decided that the GB be run in a fixed price model. Despite having honest intentions I'm sorry for how this turned out. Had I known this would be a problem I would've made a poll earlier on or given up on this idea entirely. For the rest of the day, however, I felt demonised and so to avoid the accusations and being labeled I have decided to limit the number of entries to 30 and a special +1 unit. 10 of them will be sold on a FCFS basis, while the remaining 20 spots will be chosen in a raffle.

The GB will start at 10pm UTC on thock.co this Saturday (27/06/2020) and each unit will cost $650+shipping (and tax, if applicable).
The keyboards will be sent in the first half of Q4 2020, or earlier if the schedule allows.

I'm shipping (Express) to all the countries worldwide except disputable or war zone areas.
Free shipping within the EU. Example rates for selected other countries below:
Australia: $42
Canada: $35
Japan: $38
South Korea: $38
United States: $35

The special +1 unit will be sold separately. It will be available for a price of $2500 and will be released to whoever first donates this amount to the Great Orchestra of Christmas Charity Foundation, which is a charity in Poland which helps improve Polish medical care. Please reach out to me at marcin@thock.co to coordinate if you're interested.

Thanks

Offline walletburner

  • Formerly wokechill
  • Posts: 133
  • Location: Screwston
each unit will cost $650+shipping (and tax, if applicable

this is an absurd price. i am working on a staggered layout electrocapacitive 40% right now called Subrosa and knowing what these parts cost individually, the justification for this price point is paper-thin. this confirms you're interested in making as much money as you can, not introducing a new and interesting concept at a reasonable price to the community.

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
each unit will cost $650+shipping (and tax, if applicable

this is an absurd price. i am working on a staggered layout electrocapacitive 40% right now called Subrosa and knowing what these parts cost individually, the justification for this price point is paper-thin. this confirms you're interested in making as much money as you can, not introducing a new and interesting concept at a reasonable price to the community.

Is it as absurd as your $400 on a plain keyboard which requires no R&D, especially when selling 200 units?

At least now I can see why you've been slandering me lately - you have a direct monetary incentive. And please let me be the judge how much the countless hours and days spent developing this keyboard are worth.

Offline KuroTheCrazy

  • Posts: 72
$650+ for a keyboard from a new designer, without an actual vendor, after trying to run it through vickrey? Still no build video. Sorry but going to pass on this, it sounds way too sketch and the pricing is nuts. Good luck OP and anyone who still wants to join this.

Offline Zambumon

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1736
  • discord.zambumon.com
    • Keyset projects
$650+ for a keyboard from a new designer, without an actual vendor, after trying to run it through vickrey? Still no build video. Sorry but going to pass on this, it sounds way too sketch and the pricing is nuts. Good luck OP and anyone who still wants to join this.

Regarding the typing video, OP edited the thread on June 16th with a typing test. I also missed that completely.


Offline i luv chuletas

  • Posts: 158
OP, you're going about this the wrong way my man.

Establish your brand first in the best of lights, and gain trust in the community. That way your brand gets a valuation similar to that of Keycult or Norbauer. Them being amongst the highest of high-end designers in the community, charging the type of money you're asking for.

I don't mean to take away the effort it must've taken you to get custom EC to work and have a beautiful working prototype to boot, but dropping that nutty price for your first GB run, without any Vendor backing, after the whole fiasco with the format, you have to understand is not a good look for you.

Also WB has more than proven himself with his designs lol, he gains absolutely nothing from stating his position as a fellow designer on this whole GB.

This isn't competition dude, it's a community.

Regardless I wish you the best, was looking forward to this product but will not join at that price point.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 June 2020, 10:44:32 by i luv chuletas »

Offline walletburner

  • Formerly wokechill
  • Posts: 133
  • Location: Screwston

Is it as absurd as your $400 on a plain keyboard which requires no R&D, especially when selling 200 units?


Yup, using some quick math I'd say that it's at least 62.5% more absurd, almost as absurd as saying Cajal is "plain" and took no R&D, or hiding behind your low unit number to absolve your high price when you're comparing a relatively standard 1.5lb case (with a very interesting and novel PCB inside and switches) to a 5lb gasket and RGB underglow one.

you've been slandering me lately
slander means i am telling falsehoods, but sorry getting criticized for your bad choices in this buy doesn't fit that definition.

please let me be the judge how much the countless hours and days spent developing this keyboard are worth.
this is actually the opposite of how ICs work. the goal is to give feedback, and the severity of that feedback is proportional to the severity of the perceived mistakes.

you have a direct monetary incentive
no not really. i think ortholinear and staggered boards scratch different itches for people and the only overlap is the wallet the payment comes from. perhaps you're getting a persecution complex from receiving such overwhelmingly negative input in this thread. glws!
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 June 2020, 10:44:47 by walletburner »

Offline honeynutcornflake

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: EST
each unit will cost $650+shipping (and tax, if applicable

this is an absurd price. i am working on a staggered layout electrocapacitive 40% right now called Subrosa and knowing what these parts cost individually, the justification for this price point is paper-thin. this confirms you're interested in making as much money as you can, not introducing a new and interesting concept at a reasonable price to the community.

Is it as absurd as your $400 on a plain keyboard which requires no R&D, especially when selling 200 units?

At least now I can see why you've been slandering me lately - you have a direct monetary incentive. And please let me be the judge how much the countless hours and days spent developing this keyboard are worth.
Bruh moment

Mad aggressive and a really bad look.

I think everyone respects hard work and nice looking keebs, but the mech keeb community is a *community*. The way youre handling this is not it, and youíre gonna find it hard to establish a brand or any kind of decent reputation in this community with this approach.

Big yikes

Offline mewa

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 31
    • Thock.co
I may have been too harsh, I admit, but you've been adding more fuel to the fire when it was already obvious how it ends. If you're a proven designer and have an established brand I'm more than happy to even collaborate on this particular GB.

I'm not going to even post all the insults I received through private channels, but I guess it's just the Internet. Yes, I'm overreacting but it all took an emotional tax on me.

At this point the only thing that keeps me in this GB is that I have personal interest in having this keyboard as a daily driver and I made slight modifications with regards to the original prototype that I'm keen on having. That aside, this pricing wouldn't even cover my development costs, but how would you know.

Offline Koobaczech

  • Posts: 295
  • Location: Florida, USA
  • Don't forget to smile :)
    • Pearlboards
Ok first of all, good luck with everything! Throwing some positive vibes your way! If the GB doesn't work, at least you can check off having a one of a kind keyboard to your list! People on here can be way to critical, but toughen up and focus on the board and a solid delivery. You've already crossed some milestones with the project, and the Interest Check is here to be criticized, not praised. Second, who misses the old days when a premium 40% with all kinds of **** cost $280 shipped xD I do. Also nj on Cajal woke

Offline chaoskills08

  • Posts: 5
Don't mean to be that guy but I think I am still waiting on pics of the PCB to determine whether or not this can even be trusted. What has transpired has really made me step back from something I was interested in. IC to GB too fast, cash grab vibes. 650 for your first GB is outrageous with no reputation. Thanks, but no thanks. GLWS though!
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 June 2020, 11:16:35 by chaoskills08 »