Author Topic: Terminal Model F  (Read 8922 times)

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Offline EverythingIBM

  • Posts: 1269
Terminal Model F
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 02:12:41 »
That terminal F only went for $20? I think it's time for a face palm-top:


Damn! I want one of those. I hope somewhere here got it.

My dull 1986 Model M is so "pingy" in comparison to that great model F.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Shawn Stanford

  • Posts: 368
Terminal Model F
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 07:29:15 »
Quote from: dfj;204852
...trying to get samples into the hands of interested folks to try out. (i.e. terminal freaks)...

Well, since I'm a mainframe programmer by trade I can offer a thorough wringing out.
The Brat Prince of COBOL

Offline Morning Song

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 90
Terminal Model F
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 07:30:50 »
Quote from: kishy;205192
I'm coming to the conclusion that the M is actually higher quality in at least one way, perhaps more. Will do a photo write up about this eventually.


Huh.. I got an F instead of an M partly because of the NKRO, partly because lore had it that they were better built. It does weigh nearly twice what an M weighs, according to UPS--when i bought that board, i got an M sent to me by mistake the first time, so i got to hold both of them as well as see numbers.

So please don't keep us in suspense too long! I'm curious about this little battle of the keyboard sexes. (They are F and M respectively, after all)
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

Offline dfj

  • Posts: 171
  • Location: Canada
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Terminal Model F
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 09:42:09 »
Quote from: Morning Song;205224
Huh.. I got an F instead of an M partly because of the NKRO, partly because lore had it that they were better built. It does weigh nearly twice what an M weighs, according to UPS--when i bought that board, i got an M sent to me by mistake the first time, so i got to hold both of them as well as see numbers.

So please don't keep us in suspense too long! I'm curious about this little battle of the keyboard sexes. (They are F and M respectively, after all)

I'm in agreement with Kish about one of his complaints - the upper case was improved in the M's. the plastic on the F is brittle, thinner and din't feel right so the F is actually _painted_ by IBM with a long-wear beige. It will still get chips if heavily battered over many years, though.
  The lower case is steel, and has gaps for drainage - is better than an M that way. Also, the traces and pads(capacitative pads) on the circuit boards internally are hard-lacquered so much less vulnerable to coke, etc... This is a win for the F.
  The keys and keycaps are interchangeable between F and M. Some of the F keys have a wide base and small top - which is pretty, but not as keen for a wildly fumbling typist. The springs are different on an F - but compatible with an M should you choose - the key-channel, and distances are the same. They don't feel or sound the same - but I have to  go on a massive experiment to decide what the mix of F hammers and M springs or vice versa might be like.
  The F can be fully opened, serviced and reclosed non-destructively, though it is effort. M requires a bolt-mod to service the membrane.
  F has big flat 'feet' on the hammers which makes a distinct sound. M has a different distinct sound.
  Terminal F's have the longer F-hammer springs, while the M's have shorter ones to their impact hammer. This and the two large internal springs for the variable height feet cause a resonance on the terminal F's also. only a few terminal M's have such feet, so singing M's are rare. I expect almost all Terminal F's sing.
 
  My decision was that for the cases which are pristine, then I win, but for the scraggy ones - I get to do case-mods on an F! I also win. :)

  So - in advance of Kishy's essay on the topic, here's mine. I am only dislike the top-case on the F, the rest of it I love. There are a couple've M's that have the same size top-case and if found they _could_ in theory be used to construct a solid replacement, however - those M's are also uncommon, and I consider them precious, so you won't be seeing me do that. At some point I will attempt molding a fresh case from poly or fibreglass if I can get it to bloody finish off-gassing in a sane amount of time.

kk - done rant, apologies to kish who is likely going to post his opinion on several of these positions shortly.

dfj
Fave Switch manus: IBM, Topre, Matias, ...

Offline dfj

  • Posts: 171
  • Location: Canada
  • Visit our irc: #geekhack on libera.chat!
interesting problem:
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 09:56:04 »
Quote from: Shawn Stanford;205223
Well, since I'm a mainframe programmer by trade I can offer a thorough wringing out.

  So - I've lent out one of my boards (a unicomp which defaults to mode-2, but has many keys) to another iron-worker, after a couple've mods... they are stuck with the terminal emulation software what runs under windows, though - so getting the mappings set up nicely to use the emulation software, and to also be sane under windows is a tricky problem without generating macro-like combos.

  take a look at unicomp's docs fer their combination board:
http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11815&stc=1&d=1279810306
 for details of what I speak (isa pdf).

Anyway - with a USB board, you can decide which USB events are generated by which keystrokes, and (shortly) will be able to hit a key to swap between layouts in hardware...

I need to look at bit at which events windose can eat - because it seems to ignore a fair number of USB events. :(

if you are a coder, the source of mine and mnemonix's and the humble hacker kb will all be useful - the other two have good macro support, while I can eat the PS2 of boards and stuff it on towards USB. I also support nkro, if your board is so equipped.

keep in touch.
dfj
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 July 2010, 09:59:31 by dfj »
Fave Switch manus: IBM, Topre, Matias, ...

Offline Shawn Stanford

  • Posts: 368
Terminal Model F
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 12:56:43 »
Quote from: dfj;205250
So - I've lent out one of my boards (a unicomp which defaults to mode-2, but has many keys) to another iron-worker, after a couple've mods... they are stuck with the terminal emulation software what runs under windows, though - so getting the mappings set up nicely to use the emulation software, and to also be sane under windows is a tricky problem without generating macro-like combos.

  take a look at unicomp's docs fer their combination board:
http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11815&stc=1&d=1279810306
 for details of what I speak (isa pdf).

I actually have one of the Unicomps - branded Boscom - that I used at work for months. Since it told Windows it was a standard 'enhanced' keyboard, my emulator never recognized it as a 122-key and I never did get good use out of the left-side keys. I found the 'plus' cursor arrow layout and 'gross movement' keys above it impossible to adjust to after so many years of using enhanced keyboards. I ended up having to remap the 'gross movement' keys using AutoHotKey and KeyTweak to get those to where they were usable, but I never did get comfortable with the cursor pad and eventually I ended up dragging out a normal Model M just to keep my sanity.
The Brat Prince of COBOL

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Terminal Model F
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 13:04:37 »
Quote from: Shawn Stanford;205223
Well, since I'm a mainframe programmer by trade I can offer a thorough wringing out.

Until recently I worked with a lot of mainframe types.  Mostly operators lately to be honest.  TPF, MVS, but used to be all types.  Even the rarest of breeds the hard core TPF coders who had multiple routines in the TPF code base.  Not so many of them around any more but the data center I worked in until recently had all types of terminals and keyboards.  Unfortunately when this stuff got scrapped I wasn't allowed to get it, but is entirely possible that it sold to someone who then resold it to me.  I mean I could have gotten some of it but would have to sneak it out of secured areas against the rules, just not worth the risk of getting caught or having it on my conscience either way.  I haven't worked someone requiring a poly for years but good to keep my conscience clear just in case.

Offline EverythingIBM

  • Posts: 1269
Terminal Model F
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 22 July 2010, 14:26:11 »
Quote from: kishy;205192
I'm coming to the conclusion that the M is actually higher quality in at least one way, perhaps more. Will do a photo write up about this eventually.


I like the feel of Model F keys better. They move a lot of faster. The model M keys have a sort of "gummy" resistance compared to the Fs.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT