Other switches adopted by die hard tactile brown fans

[jcoffin1981]

I am curious what other found surprisingly nice and wound up owning after trying.  There is no place I can go to try various types, so I have to purchase them which is a significant investment.  I just bought Kaihl Box burnt orange switches and will probably put together a new board tomorrow.  I'm excited, but I'm also worried I'll hate it and never use it again.  Only one way to find out...
'

[Riverman]

I ended up with a pair of Topre 45g keyboards after owning almost nothing but Cherry MX brown keyboards for years.  I liked the tactile feeling, but wanted it be a little more noticeable, and more refined.  I also have a keyboard that I modified with Kailh silent brown box switches.  I like them more than Cherry browns, but the stabilizers in the keyboard I put them in sort of ruined it for me.

[Leslieann]

I've used browns, clears, ergo clears, Kailh Pro Purples, Jailhouse blues (two methods), Mathias, dampenned white Alps. Probably forgetting a few other tactiles.

I like a LOT of tactility.
Mathias are nice, but super fickle to get get right. My one board with them was getting dampened Alps as they're just better, but they just lack something, so it's on hold to decide what to do. Undampenned is too loud, dampened feel good, not great. They lack a snappiness I've come to like. If you do go Mathias, the one thing that seems common is that only Mathias can get them right. Something about how they are soldered.

I wasn't impressed with Ergo Clear or Clears, Clears were too stiff and I may have lubed the Egros wrong (it was a while back). I was unimpressed in the end.

The Kailh are what I'm currently using in the GMMK, I have softer springs arriving tomorrow. They ABSOLUTELY require lube and there are days I think they are fantastic (other than stiffness), and other days I think they are just horrible (and not a great sound, they sound muddy but feel crisp). I have yet to figure this out, hopefully the springs help figure it out.

My current favorite though I do not have a board full of them and that can lie, is 62g Zeal Zilent v2s, I'm just waiting for the fire in my wallet to stop burning before I make the purchase.  The testing with them I have done though, I like. I also have some regular Zealio v2s coming this week to try. If they were cheaper, I'd be all over them. Great right out of the box.

Side note, if you don't mind some click, Box Jades are another good choice, but they feel stiffer than they claim (I may just be over sensitive after using the Filco for so long (sub 40g activation). Nice sound, not extreme, at least for me, and great feel, except for how stiff they are. I'm waiting for springs for them before I make a final judgment. I really want to like these, as they are very similar to wired Jailhouse Blues.


What I recommend doing is getting a switch tester.
That can be a spare plate, something purposely made, or a hot swap keyboard. Then buy sample packs of switches. It's still not cheap, but cheaper than a mistake. I have a bunch of others but these are the primary ones.

I agree with Riverman, stabs can make or break a board, once you have had decent ones, it's hard to go back to anything less. For Cherry style look up "band aid mod" and for Costar, just coat everything in Super Lube Dielectric grease.

[jcoffin1981]

  I also have a keyboard that I modified with Kailh silent brown box switches.  I like them more than Cherry browns, but the stabilizers in the keyboard I put them in sort of ruined it for me.

Looking at the specs for Kaihl Brown-  I may buy these next

[Leslieann]

I got the Zealios and tested them next to the Zilents and Kailh pro Purple (still waiting on springs... Seems impossible to get springs in a reasonable amount of time right now).

Both Zeals are 62gram, the feel is similar, seems the only difference is the rubber dampers. Both feel nicer than the lubed Kailh and frankly I think the sound is more a factor than anything else between them. Impressive actually. I like the sound of the Zealios, though a bit noisy, the Zilents are sooo quiet it's just silly, it's nice in it's own way but it's almost disturbing not to hear something.

I will probably be ordering the Zilents soon... And they'll probably get here before either set of springs (from 2 different U.S. suppliers, seriously wtf).

[uncleaner]

For moderate tactility switches I ended up liking 63.5g ergo clears and alps orange/salmon a lot. Topre's a good one to try since a lot of people move on to it from browns, but I hated it personally. Maybe it's something to do with the Novatouch, but it spent most of its life sitting in a drawer because it just felt like typing on mud to me. Really deluxe mud, but still.
For ergos it would probably be better to just buy old V1 zeals or everglide jades right now. I ended up buying my clears in three batches because of corona virus delays, and while the main batch felt great the second one I bought later on was really scratchy, and the third felt like it had something strange going on with the leafs. They're also a pain in the ass to lube, with 3404 there's a razor's edge between them feeling scratchy and over-lubed I ended up redoing mine too many times.
Salmon and orange alps are both really good, but only go for good condition oranges unless you want to put in way too much work. All the salmons I've owned that had any amount of use have been pretty scratchy and benefited greatly from dry lube, while oranges are lubed out of the factory. The downside is that lubing oranges is kind of a mystery, so if you buy ones with dirt worked into the switches you're out of luck. Complicated alps are also noisy and wear in way worse than bucking springs and cherry because of their leaf design. Also if you buy mathias switches there's a zero percent chance you'll end up wondering how so many cockroaches could fit in a keyboard.
But yeah get a switch tester, it's hard to know what you like without trying a lot of things out. With a minimal tactility switch like browns you might end up liking linears more.

[jamster]

For moderate tactility switches I ended up liking 63.5g ergo clears and alps orange/salmon a lot. Topre's a good one to try since a lot of people move on to it from browns, but I hated it personally. Maybe it's something to do with the Novatouch, but it spent most of its life sitting in a drawer because it just felt like typing on mud to me. Really deluxe mud, but still.

 

I think it could just have been the Novatouch. I tried one once, and the experience was so bad that I kind of physically recoiled. Typing on mud is a good way of putting it. For comparison, I also have 55g Realforce and a 55g Chinese board (factory silenced electro capacitive), which feel very different from each other, but both feel much, much better than the Novatouch.

[Maledicted]

I am curious what other found surprisingly nice and wound up owning after trying.  There is no place I can go to try various types, so I have to purchase them which is a significant investment.  I just bought Kaihl Box burnt orange switches and will probably put together a new board tomorrow.  I'm excited, but I'm also worried I'll hate it and never use it again.  Only one way to find out...
'

Do you want them to be particularly quiet? I believe others have mentioned a switch tester. I recommend the same, with as many of the switches you may be interested in included.

I finally have a board with Matias' quiet "linear" switches, and they're not exactly linear. There is a slight smooth, gradual tactile event before they bottom out. I find them quite nice. They're definitely more consistently smooth than their "quiet click" tactiles too, which do also still feel pretty nice when smooth (I'm not sure if this is just new production ones, or because they're not worn in). Topre is always a good bet, I quite like my 87u with 55g domes. I'm not a tactile fan though, personally, and especially not MX brown.

[jcoffin1981]

I dont particularly care about the sound.  I've found that the board construction and keycaps have a lot more to do with sound than the switch.  ABS keycaps seem to produce the most obnoxious sounds.  I'm looking for a slight to moderate tactile bump, moderate actuation force, and possibly a slightly shorter travel distance.

I'm looking at the Kaihl Speed and Box switches.  I'm not seeing many boards that come with Kaihl switches, except for KBP.  Just trying to figure out whether I want to get a KBP and replace the keycaps or a better board and put in the switches and caps.

[Maledicted]

I dont particularly care about the sound.  I've found that the board construction and keycaps have a lot more to do with sound than the switch.  ABS keycaps seem to produce the most obnoxious sounds.  I'm looking for a slight to moderate tactile bump, moderate actuation force, and possibly a slightly shorter travel distance.

I'm looking at the Kaihl Speed and Box switches.  I'm not seeing many boards that come with Kaihl switches, except for KBP.  Just trying to figure out whether I want to get a KBP and replace the keycaps or a better board and put in the switches and caps.

Matias "quiet clicks" in a mini pro chassis (they come with thin ABS caps) are quieter than the unmodified Topre switches in my 87u, which are already pretty quiet in my book. The same chassis, PCB, etc, with Matias' clicky switches, which I'm currently using now, are thunderously clacky. Even with swapping dampened sliders onto otherwise clicky Matias switches, the sound changes significantly, removing most of the high-pitched clack and leaving mostly deep thocks. Within the same switch type, without dampening, construction and caps would make a bigger difference than the switch if they're radically different, but even the material of the switch housing itself can cause some switches within the MX and clone family to be pretty distinctive from each other in sound.

I think that dampened MX switches, and clones, will inherently have a bit shorter overall travel than you're used to with MX brown, for whatever that may be worth. I don't think that tactility gets any lighter than MX brown. I know some joke that there are linears more tactile than MX brown ... I know Matias' linears most likely are. So, when you say slight to medium tactility, what's your point of reference? Would you say the Gateron browns you mentioned in your other thread would be moderate? If so, on the upper or lower end of moderate?

I love box switches, but the box tactiles use a novel design that is, unfortunately, known to become clicky on the upstroke. Box linears, and especially clickies, are wonderful. I think the speed switches use variations of the standard MX design and should be fine, but I haven't looked at Kailh's tactiles in depth. Box browns also have a relatively sharp tactility which, if I remember right, begins relatively close to the start of travel, if any of that matters to you.

[HungerMechanic]

I started a thread over here on modifying tactiles to move onto after Browns:

https://www.keebtalk.com/t/sharing-info-on-modded-tactiles/9575

Started with lubed 55 gr MX Browns, then white "Panda Clears," a type of Ergo Clears. None are completely superior to MX Browns.

A preview of what's coming next: properly-lubed Ergo Clears using 65 gr TX springs and TX films, 205g0. These might be the best MX tactiles I have used so far. But the jury's still out.

I'll also be testing other types of Ergo Clears, Everglide Jades, Holy Pandas, Brown Pandas, lubed Pro Purples, OUTEMU Skies and variants, and TTC Gold Brown V2 switches.

My honest opinion so far is that Everglide Jades [Zealio V1] and good Ergo Clears are the best MX tactiles for typing. OUTEMU Sky can be good, but there are issues you have to sort out. In terms of unmodified switches, Kailh BOX Brown and Pro Purples can be good for typing, but they have issues as well.

[HungerMechanic]

For ergos it would probably be better to just buy old V1 zeals or everglide jades right now. I ended up buying my clears in three batches because of corona virus delays, and while the main batch felt great the second one I bought later on was really scratchy, and the third felt like it had something strange going on with the leafs. They're also a pain in the ass to lube, with 3404 there's a razor's edge between them feeling scratchy and over-lubed I ended up redoing mine too many times.

Those bad Clears...they're from MechanicalKeyboards.com, right? The third batch?

I'd be curious to know if the Novelkeys Clears have gotten worse, or if they are the same as they were in 2019. There was that false[?] alarm posted in June about Clears now being bad, but it turns out that the author had mislabelled some switches.

I have some good samples from 2019 Novelkeys MX Clears, but I'm not sure it can be replicated.

[deacon]

It's not so much the Brown switch as the Brown spring and housing I'm a die hard fan of. The housing is a nicely balanced between tactility and smoothness if you get a good batch. I'll go heavier if the tactility of the stem requires it but it's just such a great weight spring to type on.

After four boards with Browns and falling down the rabbit hole of chasing extreme tactility I've taken a step back. An old set of Cherry G80 Brown housings and 55g springs remain my favorite. They have Gateron 002 o-ringed Jailhouse stems now and they as well as Cherry Blue housings with Outemu Silent Sky stems are my go-to switches. I've keep a board or two of stock Cherry Clears and Dampened Cream Alps for perspective as well as some Kailh True housings/springs with Outemu Tao tactile stems and JSpacer Jailhoused Outemu Phoenix boards for novelty.

[HungerMechanic]

Very interesting. I've put a few Silent Sky stems in lubed [3203] MX Brown housings, and it's a very viable switch. I used 55 gr Spirit springs, which were a little light. Maybe I should have used stock MX Brown springs. I'm going to try 60 gr TX next.

But I keep seeing people put Sky / Clear stems in MX Blue housings, so I'll have to try that next. I heard there are leaf issues if you do this, but I don't see anyone complaining who has actually built them.

Are you using Tao stems in Halo True housings? I didn't think of that. I'm trying to figure out what the unsilenced Tao stems work well in.

[Pylon]

Those bad Clears...they're from MechanicalKeyboards.com, right? The third batch?

I'd be curious to know if the Novelkeys Clears have gotten worse, or if they are the same as they were in 2019. There was that false[?] alarm posted in June about Clears now being bad, but it turns out that the author had mislabelled some switches.

I have some good samples from 2019 Novelkeys MX Clears, but I'm not sure it can be replicated.

To clarify - as the author of the somewhat false alarm where I mistakenly swapped in a Gateron lower into one of the switches- the May 2020 Novelkeys batch of Clears still feels noticeably worse than my mid-2019 iKBC CD108, though there are some differences in the keyboards (north-facing vs south-facing, metal vs plastic case). The mid-2019 CD108 switches still feel a lot smoother, even on rarely used keys like Pause/Break, and has a crisp tactile bump with a consistent cushion after the bump as the spring gets heavier that helps me prevent bottoming out. The May 2020 Clears are less tactile, scratchier, and I notice myself bottoming out a lot more.  I'm building up a keeb with a January 2020 batch of Clears from Novelkeys this week and will report my findings.

[Leslieann]

Unfortunately today I got to test out Zilents and Zealios alongside the (lubed) Pro Purples and (lubed) Jades.

All this time I was blaming the Jades and Purples for feeling odd, one minute they would feel good the next not so much. Turns out Zeals are feeling similar just to a lesser extent. Apparently I got so used to the light action on my Jailhouse blues I'm getting finger fatigue when using those switches*. I knew I had set these up really light (about 40g activation), but with how Cherry measures springs vs everyone else does I wasn't quite sure what they were rated at. Turns out they're REALLY, REALLY light, almost half what Jades work out to being. I have some 54g springs coming by end of the week and also some 49g springs early next week.


* I type A LOT, and if you (nearly) double the spring, you will feel it, doesn't matter who you are.

[HungerMechanic]

To clarify - as the author of the somewhat false alarm where I mistakenly swapped in a Gateron lower into one of the switches- the May 2020 Novelkeys batch of Clears still feels noticeably worse than my mid-2019 iKBC CD108, though there are some differences in the keyboards (north-facing vs south-facing, metal vs plastic case). The mid-2019 CD108 switches still feel a lot smoother, even on rarely used keys like Pause/Break, and has a crisp tactile bump with a consistent cushion after the bump as the spring gets heavier that helps me prevent bottoming out. The May 2020 Clears are less tactile, scratchier, and I notice myself bottoming out a lot more.  I'm building up a keeb with a January 2020 batch of Clears from Novelkeys this week and will report my findings.

Thanks, Pylon. This is extremely interesting to me, because my MX Clear build was interrupted by COVID. I could have built the whole thing using January 2020 Clears and earlier, otherwise.

Now I am stuck with whatever Novelkeys is offering now, once their Clears restock. I have samples built with their late-2019 MX Clears, and they are fine. I don't know how they compare to older Clears, which I have only used at meetups. [The vintage Clears are great, but I'm not expecting those.]

It's not a big deal for me if 2020 Novelkeys Clears aren't as good as 2016 or something. But if they have degraded as compared with 2019 NK Clears, then that's a problem, because I won't get able to get Clears that are like my 2019 samples. Anyway, I'm glad you're doing this research. I have a box of recent MechanicalKeyboards.com Clears, but I haven't opened it yet and don't plan to.

[treeleaf64]

Those bad Clears...they're from MechanicalKeyboards.com, right? The third batch?

I'd be curious to know if the Novelkeys Clears have gotten worse, or if they are the same as they were in 2019. There was that false[?] alarm posted in June about Clears now being bad, but it turns out that the author had mislabelled some switches.

I have some good samples from 2019 Novelkeys MX Clears, but I'm not sure it can be replicated.

To clarify - as the author of the somewhat false alarm where I mistakenly swapped in a Gateron lower into one of the switches- the May 2020 Novelkeys batch of Clears still feels noticeably worse than my mid-2019 iKBC CD108, though there are some differences in the keyboards (north-facing vs south-facing, metal vs plastic case). The mid-2019 CD108 switches still feel a lot smoother, even on rarely used keys like Pause/Break, and has a crisp tactile bump with a consistent cushion after the bump as the spring gets heavier that helps me prevent bottoming out. The May 2020 Clears are less tactile, scratchier, and I notice myself bottoming out a lot more.  I'm building up a keeb with a January 2020 batch of Clears from Novelkeys this week and will report my findings.

U got a good batch of Clear  ,  the molds were probably replaced  at some point

[treeleaf64]

To clarify - as the author of the somewhat false alarm where I mistakenly swapped in a Gateron lower into one of the switches- the May 2020 Novelkeys batch of Clears still feels noticeably worse than my mid-2019 iKBC CD108, though there are some differences in the keyboards (north-facing vs south-facing, metal vs plastic case). The mid-2019 CD108 switches still feel a lot smoother, even on rarely used keys like Pause/Break, and has a crisp tactile bump with a consistent cushion after the bump as the spring gets heavier that helps me prevent bottoming out. The May 2020 Clears are less tactile, scratchier, and I notice myself bottoming out a lot more.  I'm building up a keeb with a January 2020 batch of Clears from Novelkeys this week and will report my findings.

Thanks, Pylon. This is extremely interesting to me, because my MX Clear build was interrupted by COVID. I could have built the whole thing using January 2020 Clears and earlier, otherwise.

Now I am stuck with whatever Novelkeys is offering now, once their Clears restock. I have samples built with their late-2019 MX Clears, and they are fine. I don't know how they compare to older Clears, which I have only used at meetups. [The vintage Clears are great, but I'm not expecting those.]

It's not a big deal for me if 2020 Novelkeys Clears aren't as good as 2016 or something. But if they have degraded as compared with 2019 NK Clears, then that's a problem, because I won't get able to get Clears that are like my 2019 samples. Anyway, I'm glad you're doing this research. I have a box of recent MechanicalKeyboards.com Clears, but I haven't opened it yet and don't plan to.

If u bought at different times , then they will ofc be different,
because they will be from different batches

That means that molds used have been replaced . . so u will not have same feeling switches

Here is good video that I found useful

~ treeleaf ~ ~