Author Topic: Wanna Switch - Colemak?  (Read 54109 times)

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Offline noctua

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #100 on: Mon, 17 January 2011, 10:35:12 »
Leave yourself the time you need, you coming from Qwerty, confusions at this early stage
is quite normal. You may remember the "perfect" layout dosn't exist, but you have choosen
one where the finger travel is "comfortable" reduced.. your finger will notice this fact after
the adaptation phase..

this travel reduction has of course it's price, but on the other side qwerty
has an respectable price too ;-)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Keymonger

  • Posts: 166
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #101 on: Mon, 17 January 2011, 10:51:33 »
A while ago I wanted to design my own layout, using Colemak as a base, with this tool: http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/

I ended up with something really good, but I didn't save it! I can't remember how I did it, too. You can easily lose hours testing it out though. But anyways, my criteria was different from other layouts. For me, it feels like my middle fingers are the workhorses of my hands. I don't think fingers are equal, in other words. I would love to overload my middle fingers, but I do worry about typing 'flow', whatever that really means. But the easiest way to really find out and what does and does not work, is to design a layout, and try them out. IMO, a layout is not such a big deal for your brain. At least not mine. :P

Offline symphonic1985

  • Posts: 80
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 17 January 2011, 11:09:15 »
For the comfortable Colmakers:
How do your fingers rest on the keyboard? If i curl up my fingers to sit on the home row then my index and pinky feel like they are falling off of the keys. towards the bottom. Do you type more with your finger tips near the nail?

Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #103 on: Mon, 17 January 2011, 11:52:06 »
I had been Qwerty typist before I discovered Colemak, so my fingers are hovering over the home row. Fingers are a bit hovering from keys, so that they could type and perform key combinations.



Typing in Colemak makes you feel "tight" since your fingers fly less often, and they mostly rest on the home row. That feeling lasts for 3 weeks, then you will be familiar and even happy with that, since that is the sign of your wrists can relax more.

If you are not a typist, then the switch to Colemak plus touch typing will be very hard on you at the first 3 weeks. You have to train your hand, make fingers stronger as well as building muscle memory for the new layout.

For Qwerty typist, your hands are ready for fast typing but you have to unlearn Qwerty skills and learn new Colemak combos.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline noctua

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 17 January 2011, 13:42:31 »
Quote from: symphonic1985;279826
...being comfortable unless the key heights were different...

taken out of context, but there is some truth in it. i would say the keys have
to follow the "curved" line of fingers.. there are two keyboards on the market
that are curved, the Kinesis and the Maltron. The latter looks good, the other
one the Kinesis has some design failures in my opinion..
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline symphonic1985

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 18 January 2011, 05:21:38 »
Thanks for the picture Tony. Your wrists are much more aligned than mine. When I QWERTY I hold them each at quite a large angle.

I've put the F keycaps on the index and pinky keys and it feels much better. I am typing this in Colemak at about 40 wpm. My right wrist hurts a little but nowhere near as bad as was before. I couldn't type Colemak for more than a minute without a lot of discomfort before.

I'm still determined to make my own layout with thumb keys... but I will try Colemak for a bit longer while doing that to learn more about what typing styles I like the most.

Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 18 January 2011, 09:48:35 »
40wpm is a good speed. My current speed is 50wpm and my max Qwerty is 60wpm, so you have done well.

To feel comfortable, at least you should spend a year or so typing in Colemak layout, to learn some specific key combinations that make you type faster.

For fun, you may want to try Typeracer (online), Typing of the Dead or Typershark (offline). It helps me a lot.

Colemak doesn't make me type faster, but makes me more comfortable and relaxed while typing.
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 January 2011, 10:00:07 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline symphonic1985

  • Posts: 80
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 25 January 2011, 17:16:33 »
To drop a quick update - I hit a new high score of 48 at high games (1 min test) today and a bunch of mid 40s. I was typing on my newly arrived MX 11800 which seems to make a BIG difference for my Colemak comfort. My right hand is responding better to the light keys and is more relaxed. Hopefully this continues.

I am still very unhappy about the high central column usage. I groan whenever I have to type a 'g'. And even 'l' is annoying when you're perched on the home row the rest of the time. It really breaks my flow.

Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 25 January 2011, 20:24:43 »
Another Compaq 11800 user here. I also find typing on it very relaxing. The right hand now can type such Colemak trigraphs and diagraphs like "you", "ly", "ion", "oil"... faster and at ease.

For exercise, I am pratising g,k,l,f right now.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Moogle Stiltzkin

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #109 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 09:26:40 »
Quote from: Tony;278930
Here is my graph of typing speed after 40 days in Colemak:

Show Image


For someone who don't know about the Colemak layout, here is a picture

Show Image



So using your picture as an example,

to change from US ansi to colemak i need to

1. rearrange the existing keys like that

2. buy an extra backspace key

?
"So long as we do not depend on the facts entirely, incomplete knowledge is better than complete ignorance."

:bounce:

Current gaming keyboard: Ducky DK-9008 with Cherry Beige/White doubleshots (Cherry Mx Brown)

For my 2nd pc: Cherry G80-1095 HAU Revision 00 (Cherry Mx Black)

Dye subbed keys harvested from NCR 3299-k440-v001 G80-3007 SAU. Casing donated to Mike.
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Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #110 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 21:51:27 »
@Moogle Stiltzkin: You don't have to rearrange the keys or buy anything at all. For convenience, I leave the keyboard intact and learn touch type. I don't look at the keyboard, so key placement is not an issue.

Go to colemak.com, install the software. You will be able to switch back and forth from Colemak to Qwerty with a hot key (in case of playing games, for example).
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline notlofty

  • Posts: 8
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #111 on: Sat, 29 January 2011, 03:25:19 »
I also use Colemak! I never learned to touchtype so when I was sophomore in college, 3 years ago, I decided I would teach myself. Being the nerd that I am, I'm on geek hack now lol, I thought if I was going to learn I'd learn right and learn a more efficient layout. I used it on and off for a few months and then finally went and permanently switched. Now I type at about 80wpm with it.
The only problem's I've really experienced using an obscure layout is when I have to input text in Chinese. The Chinese reverts back to to qwerty unless I change the layout in the registry which isn't always good for games. Anyone know how I can input simplified characters using pinyin input with the Colemak layout?

Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #112 on: Thu, 24 February 2011, 10:10:53 »


After 80 days since switching from Qwerty, my Colemak speed reach my old Qwerty speed, 60wpm.

Hopefully I can get to 70wpm in a few months.
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 February 2011, 06:34:20 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline noctua

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #113 on: Thu, 24 February 2011, 13:37:13 »
if you want it, you get it - i'm sure. where are many qwerty sheeps on the
typeracer road - i know this because i was one of them earlier..  ;-)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline jpc

  • Posts: 363
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #114 on: Thu, 24 February 2011, 21:37:23 »
first full Colemak week
twenty-two words per minute
a relaxing pace :)

RSI prevention recipe:[/B] Kinesis Contoured, Colemak layout, touch typing, Contour Design Rollermouse,  Logitech TrackMan Wheel, Logitech m570 trackball, "workrave" break timer software, "awesome" window manager, tenkeyless boards, cherry browns, Wang 724 with "ghetto green" ALPS, standing desk and/or comfy adjustable chairs, stress reduction, computer time reduction.

Fun non-ergonomic things: bolt modded Model M Space Saving Keyboards with new springs, Kensington Expert Mouse v7, Unicomp Endurapro, Northgates

Offline jpc

  • Posts: 363
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #115 on: Thu, 24 February 2011, 21:44:07 »
Kinesis Contoured
Colemak, home row, no looking
Relearning to type

RSI prevention recipe:[/B] Kinesis Contoured, Colemak layout, touch typing, Contour Design Rollermouse,  Logitech TrackMan Wheel, Logitech m570 trackball, "workrave" break timer software, "awesome" window manager, tenkeyless boards, cherry browns, Wang 724 with "ghetto green" ALPS, standing desk and/or comfy adjustable chairs, stress reduction, computer time reduction.

Fun non-ergonomic things: bolt modded Model M Space Saving Keyboards with new springs, Kensington Expert Mouse v7, Unicomp Endurapro, Northgates

Offline noctua

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #116 on: Fri, 25 February 2011, 08:04:03 »
same for me, with begin of colemak practicing my relearning to type starts too and
continued until today, time to find and remove all these earlier mistypings. i'm now
in my seventh month.. but there is the light at the end of the tunnel..  ;-)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline jpc

  • Posts: 363
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #117 on: Mon, 28 February 2011, 22:31:22 »
Sweet. I just tested 30 wpm. This is after 8 days of full time Colemak touch typing on a radically shaped keyboard (the Kinesis)

Stick with it folks, you'll get there.

RSI prevention recipe:[/B] Kinesis Contoured, Colemak layout, touch typing, Contour Design Rollermouse,  Logitech TrackMan Wheel, Logitech m570 trackball, "workrave" break timer software, "awesome" window manager, tenkeyless boards, cherry browns, Wang 724 with "ghetto green" ALPS, standing desk and/or comfy adjustable chairs, stress reduction, computer time reduction.

Fun non-ergonomic things: bolt modded Model M Space Saving Keyboards with new springs, Kensington Expert Mouse v7, Unicomp Endurapro, Northgates

Offline noctua

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #118 on: Fri, 04 March 2011, 09:17:12 »
With begin on the 8th month of my colemak practicing, i've got an home run on
my selfmade colemak keyboard..

Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Rairden

  • Posts: 26
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #119 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 01:53:35 »
noctua, how much extra speed do you think I could get?  I average 110 wpm, and yesterday I got 117 wpm on http://freetypinggame.net/free-typing-test.asp

I've read a lot that the comfort bonus is tremendous and reason enough to switch.  But I only want to switch if it will give me 20-30+ wpm.  Have you heard stories of 100 wpm+ people gaining much?
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 March 2011, 01:59:30 by Rairden »

Offline noctua

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #120 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 03:53:05 »
I know at least two typists at typeracer.com who types +100WPM average with
the colemak layout - one of them uses the TypeMatrix 2030 keyboard...
Just as much or more that use the dvorak layout..

The +100 region isn't really comfortable.. i think this is dependend on your personally
predisposition, more an practicing issue and also how fast you capture the texts..

The discomfort with qwerty is already known, some typists at typeracer has
switched to an alternative layout - for me is colemak an clear improvement
in comfort and speed - and i'm older then the most typists on typeracer..

Each layout has it's awkward combinations also colemak, if you want top
your average by 20-30WPM stay with qwerty and practice until your hands
hurt - i'm not the oracle - i have chosen the calmer way.. ask me in a year ;-)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #121 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 06:20:59 »


Head to head with you at Typeracer, noctua.

@rairden: Changing the layout from Qwerty to Colemak/Dvorak usually cannot make you type faster, but your hands are less tired while typing.

Personally, in Qwerty I am 60wpm, now I am 62wpm in Colemak.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 March 2011, 06:24:13 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Keymonger

  • Posts: 166
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #122 on: Mon, 07 March 2011, 08:45:19 »
The layout can definitely make a difference in speed, but I think it's more about comfort really. I think that any layout that doesn't make the weak fingers do too much work will be fast. Dvorak did the opposite and I was never really fast with it; around 65 wpm after using it for 7 months. It's been less than two months since I switched to a custom layout and I'm already hitting 60 wpm.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #123 on: Tue, 08 March 2011, 18:12:06 »
Has anyone reviewed the CARPALX website to see the improved and/or fully optimized layout versions of Colemak, etc...? I use Colemak (on a Kinesis Contoured) and am happy, but I wanted to know if anyone has carried it a step or two further. If so, I'd like to hear others thoughts on this.

I fully recognize that it becomes a matter of splitting hairs, but it's interesting from a knowledge standpoint.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #124 on: Tue, 08 March 2011, 20:07:58 »
If ZXCVQWA keys is not locked, or balanced workload is not considered, there are a lot of more optimal layout than Colemak, but with less than 1% difference.

Try this:
qwulpkmyf;[]\
riaohdtens’
zxcvjgb,./

This layout has shorter key travel, but put most used E and T to the right hand, which is imbalanced.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Input Nirvana

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #125 on: Tue, 08 March 2011, 22:11:48 »
Quote from: Tony;308155
If ZXCVQWA keys is not locked, or balanced workload is not considered, there are a lot of more optimal layout than Colemak, but with less than 1% difference.

Try this:
qwulpkmyf;[]\
riaohdtens’
zxcvjgb,./

This layout has shorter key travel, but put most used E and T to the right hand, which is imbalanced.




Thanks, exactly the input I was looking for. There are several interesting ways to have a layout, and at some point, because of the number and frequency, there can be several with no net gain, just canceling out gains/losses. I'm not a multiple thousands of words a day typist, so I'm not in it for the practical aspect. Although I would consider switching or maybe swapping a few letters for a perceived gain.

Taking a look at qwulpk right now...
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline noctua

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  • Posts: 188
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #126 on: Wed, 09 March 2011, 01:29:25 »
Tony: do you use qwulpk current?
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #127 on: Wed, 09 March 2011, 02:10:15 »
@noctua: No, I've just converted to Colemak from Qwerty and that's ergonomic enough for me.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 March 2011, 02:12:42 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #128 on: Mon, 30 May 2011, 05:01:04 »
My switching process from Qwerty to Colemak is complete and I am now typing with 63 wpm average - 3pm gain from Qwerty speed.

Here is my day by day experience, for your reference.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline noctua

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  • Posts: 188
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #129 on: Tue, 31 May 2011, 07:41:20 »
Thanks for sharing your experience, i've seen you sometimes on typeracer,
thats good.. the minority group of colemak typists becomes increased
with each typist ;) i have taken a look at your statistic there.. enough
room for further improvements.. i'm sure, see you on the road!
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #130 on: Wed, 31 August 2011, 21:27:44 »
Thanks, the number of Colemak users are steadily increasing over time. But the Colemak is not for everyone.

In my office, none of my work colleagues can touch type. They are impressed by my touchtyping with Ninja keycaps (no legends on top) but only the research department understand the ergonomics of Colemak.

They feel that they will never be able to leave Qwerty comfort zone. I agree with them that the investment in changing layout is quite stressing for most of people and Colemak is not for everyone.

I think that Qwerty typists are most likely to be impressed and motivated to switch to Colemak, since you can only see the inefficiency of Qwerty when touch typing for a long time.
« Last Edit: Wed, 31 August 2011, 21:31:06 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Input Nirvana

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #131 on: Thu, 01 September 2011, 00:02:55 »
Quote from: Tony;408460
I think that Qwerty typists are most likely to be impressed and motivated to switch to Colemak, since you can only see the inefficiency of Qwerty when touch typing for a long time.

Maybe, but I've never been able to have Qwerty work for me. I'm a much better touch typist on Colemak than I ever was on Qwerty. I don't know if I've ever mentioned that here or not, I think I always say it's more comfortable.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline Symmetry

  • Posts: 26
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #132 on: Thu, 01 September 2011, 00:56:03 »
I really want to switch to Colemak, but I'm at ~110 on rubber domes and, based on testing of other mechanical keyboards, I'm confident I could transcribe at ~115-120 on the right switches. Colemak would improve my efficiency a great deal, as I'm a pianist so rolls and alternating digraphs are first nature to me. However, I'm not sure I can stand typing at 40 WPM or less for a few months until I regain reasonable speed!

Help! I'm trapped in a dilemma!
Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #133 on: Thu, 01 September 2011, 01:34:50 »
Quote from: Symmetry;408537
I really want to switch to Colemak, but I'm at ~110 on rubber domes and, based on testing of other mechanical keyboards, I'm confident I could transcribe at ~115-120 on the right switches. Colemak would improve my efficiency a great deal, as I'm a pianist so rolls and alternating digraphs are first nature to me. However, I'm not sure I can stand typing at 40 WPM or less for a few months until I regain reasonable speed!

Help! I'm trapped in a dilemma!

Colemak is not for everyone, so if you are too afraid, don't switch. But if you are excited and afraid at the same time, then go for it.

The typing speed is a log curve, so in a month you can get half your Qwerty speed (50wpm). I suppose that is fast enough to do typing work.

The first three weeks will be like hell, but from then on it will be better as you get used to Colemak.

In three to 6 months you can regain your Qwerty speed, and can go past that (My Colemak speed is 4wpm faster).
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline bluecar5556

  • Posts: 126
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #134 on: Sat, 03 September 2011, 19:19:39 »
From typing 90-100wpm on QWERTY and after switching to Colemak, i'm probably up to 60-70wpm approx. 3 months later.  As I say, accuracy first then speed will follow naturally.

That being said, i'm so relieved after switching and glad I did.  My fingers feel like they are running a few miles a day instead of all the way through downtown.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 25637[/ATTACH]

Offline jpc

  • Posts: 363
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« Reply #135 on: Sat, 03 September 2011, 20:06:47 »
I'm still not quite up to my old QWERTY speed. 65wpm Colemak vs. 75 QWERTY. That's after 25 years of practice on QWERTY.

I've been more COMFORTABLE since switching to Colemak and simultaneously learning to touch type. Comfort and hand health is my goal. Colemak does well at that. So I'm happy with it and would switch again.

RSI prevention recipe:[/B] Kinesis Contoured, Colemak layout, touch typing, Contour Design Rollermouse,  Logitech TrackMan Wheel, Logitech m570 trackball, "workrave" break timer software, "awesome" window manager, tenkeyless boards, cherry browns, Wang 724 with "ghetto green" ALPS, standing desk and/or comfy adjustable chairs, stress reduction, computer time reduction.

Fun non-ergonomic things: bolt modded Model M Space Saving Keyboards with new springs, Kensington Expert Mouse v7, Unicomp Endurapro, Northgates

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #136 on: Sat, 03 September 2011, 22:26:38 »
My dvorak surpassed my qwerty 5 years ago. Recently I've been practicing qwerty again, getting 70+ WPM on my KBC Poker (on dvorak/kinesis I get 100+). I'd go with colemak if I had to start all over again, but it's probably not worth it now because dvorak is good enough. So I'm sticking with it.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #137 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 04:45:05 »
A nice review for you to read

Alternative Layout Review

By the way, I found geekhack forum while searching for some layout review, then I stumbled on this one. It is excellently written by Viett, a user who has tried Dvorak and Colemak, with 100+wpm speed on both.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Deverica Wolf

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #138 on: Tue, 20 September 2011, 18:19:17 »
Quote from: Tony;408555
Colemak is not for everyone, so if you are too afraid, don't switch. But if you are excited and afraid at the same time, then go for it.

The typing speed is a log curve, so in a month you can get half your Qwerty speed (50wpm). I suppose that is fast enough to do typing work.

The first three weeks will be like hell, but from then on it will be better as you get used to Colemak.

In three to 6 months you can regain your Qwerty speed, and can go past that (My Colemak speed is 4wpm faster).


Funny you say that because it took me exactly three weeks until I learned to type Colemak quickly. In those three weeks, I could actually feel my brain hurting from the confusion of what keys to press. It sucked...I thought I was gonna cry! I felt like quitting. But I am glad I stuck with it. I highly recommend switching to everyone.
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Offline cactux

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #139 on: Tue, 20 September 2011, 18:24:36 »
Quote from: Deverica Wolf;419283
Funny you say that because it took me exactly three weeks until I learned to type Colemak quickly. In those three weeks, I could actually feel my brain hurting from the confusion of what keys to press. It sucked...I thought I was gonna cry! I felt like quitting. But I am glad I stuck with it. I highly recommend switching to everyone.

I know that frustration when I switch to Dvorak. Switching from QWERTY -> Colemak is not that  painful compare to QWERTY -> Dvorak
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Offline Playtrumpet

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 20 September 2011, 19:07:19 »
Dvorak is sooo different though. With only 2 keys the same from Qwerty (A and M), making that switch requires more rewiring of your brain/fingers/muscles. Either way, if you're gonna switch layouts, you should be ready for a challenge.
Das S Ultimate Brown | Dvorak

Offline chario

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #141 on: Sat, 19 November 2011, 21:03:56 »
First week is painful if you switch to other layout.

I was going to be full-time Dvorak user but programming hobby converted me to Colemak user.
I started learning Colemak on Nov 4th, 2011 after 20+ years of Qwerty touch typing.  I practice Colemak sixty minutes to ninety minutes every day. I already broke the top speed of my Qwerty at 50 - 53wpm.

Colemak with a decent mechanical keyboard probably makes your hands smile all the time.

Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #142 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 08:06:04 »
Yes, I am typing Colemak with a Filco brown and my fingers are happy.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline trax

  • Posts: 174
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #143 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 17:47:19 »
I'm used to a dutch azerty (probably one of the most retarded layouts ever made) and just purchased a blank (otaku?) keyboard with standard us layout.

qwerty was going to be new for me but this seems better, seems like I'm going to get this instead :)
Switches tried so far
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Offline fireball87

  • Posts: 43
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #144 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 22:52:24 »
I plan to learn Colemak right after I finish school (this is my final year).  I plan to dedicate some time to independent projects anyway, so that should guarantee I have the free time to actually do it.  I figure, it's something that I won't see much benefit for right away, but it will add up.  Will be a bit sad to go from my current 90 to slow, but I'll get over it and get it back anyway.  I once tried learning Dvorak, but it annoyed me when I was trying to code having the symbols thrown all over the keyboard when I was trying to code... and I had to write a few papers.

Offline Tony

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #145 on: Fri, 02 December 2011, 02:35:04 »
Quote from: fireball87;462532
I plan to learn Colemak right after I finish school (this is my final year).  I plan to dedicate some time to independent projects anyway, so that should guarantee I have the free time to actually do it.  I figure, it's something that I won't see much benefit for right away, but it will add up.  Will be a bit sad to go from my current 90 to slow, but I'll get over it and get it back anyway.  I once tried learning Dvorak, but it annoyed me when I was trying to code having the symbols thrown all over the keyboard when I was trying to code... and I had to write a few papers.

You should reserve three weeks for the switching time, when you have no serious typing work. After that period you will be Colemak fluent enough to type emails/thesis etc.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline davkol

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #146 on: Fri, 02 December 2011, 17:32:17 »
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« Last Edit: Mon, 02 July 2018, 17:03:06 by davkol »

Offline Input Nirvana

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Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #147 on: Sat, 03 December 2011, 21:10:48 »
Quote from: trax;456362
I'm used to a dutch azerty (probably one of the most retarded layouts ever made) and just purchased a blank (otaku?) keyboard with standard us layout.

qwerty was going to be new for me but this seems better, seems like I'm going to get this instead :)

Trax, your avatar is THE SPANK! I almost go into convulsive seizures if I look at it for more than a few seconds. Then I can't type regardless of the layout I'm using. LOL
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Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #148 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 02:21:37 »
Quote from: dante;463945
My only real complaint is that these autoscript programs do not work on windows login screens (I don't know if the situation is different on other operating systems.)

Microsoft support: Since there are several users on every computer to login, so we do not know which user use Colemak/Dvorak or Qwerty. Only when your password have been checked we will set up Colemak for you if your profile is set to Colemak.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline JBert

  • Posts: 765
Wanna Switch - Colemak?
« Reply #149 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 08:19:20 »
I've used the setup.exe from the Colemak website, then I've changed my Windows settings to make it selectable at login. If you share your PC, make sure to keep a sane default though.
IBM Model F XT + Soarer's USB Converter || Cherry G80-3000/Clears

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