HHKBP2 vs. Realforce 103UB 55g (sorry about another vs. thread)

[gr1m]

I think in that case a Topre is definitely worth it. Say you have back problems and buying a chair that costs $300 more than another chair will help alleviate some of that pain. The $300 then becomes chump change when you consider that it actually helps remove chronic pain from your life.

[ironman31]

I find it funny that anyone would get excited about $15 off an older design RealForce.

lol, especially when you're spending over 200 dollars

[typo]

thats what i mean. i don't know why someone would nickle and dime when they are buying the best. especially if they are buying it for a performance or medical reason. even if it is just a luxury item. if i type faster with less errors i make more money. would you want to go to a dr. that uses a cheap stethoscope and might miss that you had a heart problem?

i realise that a lot of you here are probably students though. i could not have got a topre in university either.

may i suggest you all get a aeron chair to go with that topre! if you are actually using this stuff for business and not playing games i mean. trust me you will not regret the chair! well, if you think the topre is expensive maybe forget the chair on second thought

[hyperlinked]

I find it funny that anyone would get excited about $15 off an older design RealForce.

Well, "excited" isn't quite the right word. It was just a sweetener. I've been planning on getting it for a while, but would have been putting it off until a few more checks came in.

ItlnStln's review pushed me off the fence because it seems like he's got some similar preferences to switches that I do. I also needed a real keycap puller so that combined with the small discount was enough to move the purchase timeline up.

thats what i mean. i don't know why someone would nickle and dime when they are buying the best.

Money is money, man. Anyway, the thing is... I really don't know if it'll be "the best" for me until I try it. Until then, it's a possible $250 mistake.

may i suggest you all get a aeron chair to go with that topre!

Nuuuuuuuuuu-oooohh! Not an Aeron! I've owned one of those. It served me well, but uncomfortably for several years before I sold it. Anyone who is thinking of buying an Aeron should go someplace where they'll let you sit in it for two hours... then decide if you still like it. It's a very nice chair, but it's better for some body types and postures than others and it really becomes evident after a few hours.

[typo]

well it's like tempur-pedic. people either love them or hate them. i think the aeron is better for small frame folks. i do not think a basketball player would be very comfortable in one.

that is certainly a bigger purchase decision than a topre.  i guess i am strange i just don't consider the topre expensive.  for instance a $250 color laser would be really low end. i guess you could say expensive for what it is. i see stores have $100+ cpu heatsinks! that, i think is expensive! hmm. guess it boils down to priorities. i would never overclock a machine to begin with. windows crashes just fine as it is.

[patrickgeekhack]

thats what i mean. i don't know why someone would nickle and dime when they are buying the best.  

I think this is the problem. Most people don't know if the  Topre is the best for they have not tried anything like it. Some have tried Cherry, ALPS or Buckling Spring. The closest the've come to a Topre is rubber dome keyboards. I was scared too. If people knew that the Topre IS the best for them, then some of them would not be "scared" to get one even if it's expensive. My concerned was to spend that sum of money and be disappointed. Some have been disappointed with their Topre.

[patrickgeekhack]

i am kind of biased liking blues cherries but i feel the mx boards are a bargain then. of course most folks probably think even $130 is absurd.

Like you, I'm biased towards the blue Cherries. I find it to be the best combination of sound level and tactility.

[washuai]

Ignoring price, the best keyboard option for me, for work, is the Realforce 87U low noise, then regular 87U variable, then 91U.  Kinesis Advantage and HHKBP2, get to duke it out for next best.

Not having had a month test drive on Kinesis or HHKB, I do have concerns that I might not prefer their layout, at which point I've made an expensive mistake.  At least Kinesis has a good return policy.

The Realforce and Kinesis might be too big for me to lock up in my file cabinet.  Thankfully, I can figure this out before purchase, but I haven't bothered, since I can't afford it.  I'd have to make some room, just for the HHKB.  Considering their costs, not being able to protect my investment is an issue.  

Health, responsibilities, budget - all things considered, I suspect, I'll be picking up a tenkeyless brown board, when I'm able or a deal pops up, which will solve my health needs.  The difference in cost, even if just spending the money on recreational activities is significant.

If I'm going to pay $300 (HHKB +tax and shipping) to 400 plus for a keyboard, then it needs to check off the majority of my desired features, especially functional ones to be necessary or have made it into my top ten list of wanted items.

[hyperlinked]

My Realforce 103U-UW just arrived and I'm typing on it right now. I think I'm in love. It's still a little awkward for me and I'm making a lot of typos, but I really like the feel. I'm also liking that it's not as loud as my Filco Cherry Brown though I do like the sound of the clacking sometimes. As patrickgeekhack mentioned, it actually sounds kinda musical.

I'll have to post a formal review of my impressions in a week or so after I get used to it, but my initial feelings are all positive. The feel of the keycaps is nice too. All the other positives are nice, but the most meaningful test will be how my hands feel after an extended day of coding and email.

[patrickgeekhack]

My Realforce 103U-UW just arrived and I'm typing on it right now. I think I'm in love. It's still a little awkward for me and I'm making a lot of typos, but I really like the feel. I'm also liking that it's not as loud as my Filco Cherry Brown though I do like the sound of the clacking sometimes. As patrickgeekhack mentioned, it actually sounds kinda musical.

I'll have to post a formal review of my impressions in a week or so after I get used to it, but my initial feelings are all positive. The feel of the keycaps is nice too. All the other positives are nice, but the most meaningful test will be how my hands feel after an extended day of coding and email.

Congratulations on your first Topre. Ironically, a few hours ago, I removed my Filco brown Cherry and put my Realforce 103UB back. I made a lot of typos. I realised that the Topre does require more force than the brown Cherry, especially the spacebar.  If there a difference between the 103U-UW and the 103U? I find it kind of weird to have the one which come with more stuffs to be actually cheaper. I bought mine when elitekeyboards had the Realforce on for $218 instead of $228.

The toc toc toc is nice is like music to the ear indeed. I like to think of my keyboards like dishes. I may like one dish more than an another, but I would not want to eat the same dish over and over.

[hyperlinked]

The force is supposed to be about the same. If they're not then I may not like it as much later on. It doesn't feel heavier to me. The thing I notice the most is the shorter throw of the Topres.

[patrickgeekhack]

The force is supposed to be about the same. If they're not then I may not like it as much later on. It doesn't feel heavier to me. The thing I notice the most is the shorter throw of the Topres.

But, the force is required mostly at the beginning of the key travel.

[hyperlinked]

Throw is the same. 4.0mm.

Really? That's surprising. It just feels shorter to me and it's part of what's throwing me off, but maybe it's just the force curve as patrickgeekhack mentioned.

[microsoft windows]

Well, "excited" isn't quite the right word. It was just a sweetener. I've been planning on getting it for a while, but would have been putting it off until a few more checks came in.

ItlnStln's review pushed me off the fence because it seems like he's got some similar preferences to switches that I do. I also needed a real keycap puller so that combined with the small discount was enough to move the purchase timeline up.



Money is money, man. Anyway, the thing is... I really don't know if it'll be "the best" for me until I try it. Until then, it's a possible $250 mistake.



Nuuuuuuuuuu-oooohh! Not an Aeron! I've owned one of those. It served me well, but uncomfortably for several years before I sold it. Anyone who is thinking of buying an Aeron should go someplace where they'll let you sit in it for two hours... then decide if you still like it. It's a very nice chair, but it's better for some body types and postures than others and it really becomes evident after a few hours.

I use a bright orange fake-leather and chrome chair from the 70's. It's ugly and extremely dated, but it's very comfy. And it's big, so it'll accommodate just about any "body type".

[chongyixiong]

Hey guys, I just got my Topre Realforce 87U All 55g.. and it sucks.



As much as I liked the Topre switches on my HHKB, the 55g just suck. The activation force of 55g is too high and key travel is very short, as compared to the 45g?

Build quality is top-notch and the best I have seen on any keyboard, the feeling of the keycaps are heaven.. but the key travel just feels short and weird for me.

It's like my keys take alot more force to push down the keys.. and when I do push it down.. it buckles very quickly, therefore making the key travel feel much more shorter as compared to the HHKB's 45g Topres.

[itlnstln]

Shoulda got the variable weight one.  It kills the HHKB in terms of feel.  Pressing on my Esc key, I can see where the 55g. might be a little heavy.  Topres, IMO, are better the lighter they are.  I would love an all-30g. in an ANSI layout.  The only complaint I might have about the RF is that the spacebar is a little heavy, but it's an easy fix.  After using it for awhile, I don't even notice anymore.

[ironman31]

Hmm, maybe I should give a variable weight a try one day, the only reason I didn't get it in the first place was that I was going to be using it as an everyday keyboard (which includes gaming). But I have yet to get where I don't bottom out all the time like I am with my blues and browns

[ironman31]

I'm just going to try and get used to mine... unless they come out with an all 45g in the U.S.

[itlnstln]

Really, the variable weighting thing is very subtle.  They all feel like 45g. on my 'board.  The only way I can tell is pressing keys very slowly of differing weights.  I wouldn't wait for an all-XXg. 'board, the difference is just too subtle.

[chongyixiong]

Shoulda got the variable weight one.  It kills the HHKB in terms of feel.  Pressing on my Esc key, I can see where the 55g. might be a little heavy.  Topres, IMO, are better the lighter they are.  I would love an all-30g. in an ANSI layout.  The only complaint I might have about the RF is that the spacebar is a little heavy, but it's an easy fix.  After using it for awhile, I don't even notice anymore.

They have an all 45g and I would love that but it comes in some weird Japanese layout and it spoils the overall look of the board IMO.

Hmm, maybe I should give a variable weight a try one day, the only reason I didn't get it in the first place was that I was going to be using it as an everyday keyboard (which includes gaming). But I have yet to get where I don't bottom out all the time like I am with my blues and browns

It's kinda hard to type on mine.. I try not to bottom out on the 55g keys and I could not press the keys as a result.

The 55g key on my Realforce 87U also feels like it has the tactile point at the top of the stroke.  I just think you are just experiencing a more dramatic "cliff".

Show Image

Kind of a personal thing, really.

Thanks rip, I think that is what it feels like.. the tactile point is at the very point and it just buckles after that.. making the overall feel very short - and unpleasant!

Really, the variable weighting thing is very subtle.  They all feel like 45g. on my 'board.  The only way I can tell is pressing keys very slowly of differing weights.  I wouldn't wait for an all-XXg. 'board, the difference is just too subtle.

Damn, I should have seen this before I splurged on this Realforce 87U.
Who wants to swap for one?

[keyboardlover]

I got it!



Initial impressions:
1. The switch is by far the most similar to my Key Tronic from all the switches I've tried.
2. The keys are a bit difficult to see in the dark (it's evening right now) but since I'm already a decent touch-typist I'm guessing this will probably only make me better.
3. Typing on it feels and sounds great. I'm not sure yet if it's worth paying $200 more than a Key Tronic, but I definitely prefer the capacitive switches to cherry browns. Build quality is far superior to Key Tronic and any of my other keyboards, so I doubt I'll truly know it's worth until I've typed on it for a long time (which I plan to do). The fact that it has 6kro is also perfect for me, since I play fps occasionally.

In the end, this seems to be the perfect choice for me.

Thanks to everyone who gave me keyboard advice in the old thread I started!

[ironman31]

Let us know in a couple weeks how you like the 55g weighting. Everybody else has gotten me curious about the variable weight keyboard...
Lol, Best Buy should carry them just so I can try them out beforehand, then I'd buy off the internet because I'm sure they would overcharge like they do everything else.

[ch_123]

It's rather ironic that at the end of the day, one of the best (2nd best IMHO) mechanical keyboards on the market has a key feel similar to that of a rubber dome... Some people react to this in horror, but to me it underscores the need to look for "good" keyboards as opposed to mechanical vs non-mechanical...

[keyboardlover]

It's rather ironic that at the end of the day, one of the best (2nd best IMHO) mechanical keyboards on the market has a key feel similar to that of a rubber dome... Some people react to this in horror, but to me it underscores the need to look for "good" keyboards as opposed to mechanical vs non-mechanical...

I agree...the only other mechanical switch that I found I liked a lot was the Cherry MX Brown, but after using it for a while I found that I actually preferred my Key Tronic. I think it's also interesting that Cherry MX Blue and Buckling spring are so popular, since I found I didn't like the buckling spring (and haven't tried the blue but I have a feeling I wouldn't like their noise level or clickiness). Different "strokes" for different folks I guess

[majestouch]

Hey guys, I just got my Topre Realforce 87U All 55g.. and it sucks.



As much as I liked the Topre switches on my HHKB, the 55g just suck. The activation force of 55g is too high and key travel is very short, as compared to the 45g?

Build quality is top-notch and the best I have seen on any keyboard, the feeling of the keycaps are heaven.. but the key travel just feels short and weird for me.

It's like my keys take alot more force to push down the keys.. and when I do push it down.. it buckles very quickly, therefore making the key travel feel much more shorter as compared to the HHKB's 45g Topres.

You might want to give it a week on your desk before you sell it off. I also found the 55g switches to buckle quicker than I initially considered healthy, and the extra force they required tired my fingers out (coming from a cherry brown), but after a week my fingers had begun to adjust and I found the unique snappiness of the 55g quite a bit of fun.

[keyboardlover]

You might want to give it a week on your desk before you sell it off. I also found the 55g switches to buckle quicker than I initially considered healthy, and the extra force they required tired my fingers out (coming from a cherry brown), but after a week my fingers had begun to adjust and I found the unique snappiness of the 55g quite a bit of fun.

It's the best keyboard I ever used. Thanks majestouch!

EDIT: Just wish I had one at work too. I wonder how I could justify them springing for a $200 plus keyboard for me?

[didjamatic]

35/45/55 Variable Realforce = Megan Fox


All 55g Realforce = CharlieJames1975

Keytronic/IBM/High end rubber domes = Woman at the store.  Nice, friendly, attractive

[ironman31]

So I did a test with some nickels on my Topre, and I couldn't get them to actuate even at around 70g.... Not sure how I could be doing anything wrong, unless the U.S. nickels I have are much less than 5g, or Topre is pulling my tail with the 55g thing.