Author Topic: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)  (Read 15224 times)

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Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 12:47:36 »
Omg I love Holo

ne spice and wolf S3 avail T-T

that said, the kitting looks alright, though I'd probably remove some keys like
- Pg Up R3
- Pg Dn R4
- 1.5u Supers R4
- 2u Shift R4
for a bit of savings

And yes, yen sign on pipe please.

Other than that, definitely in my considerations. I'll post more if I get any more ideas (would suggest R5 bottom row but it'd probably get pricey)

Thank you for these suggestions. I have just updated the kitting and have uploaded the renders. These were thing's I overlooked during my kitting process.

Just some kitting thoughts:

Add an extra tab to your hiragana kit, it adds some flexibility so in theory someone can buy it and fill 2 different boards (e.g. 1 tsangan style, 1 standard style). Additionally, since you've got a mod colored ~` you might as well add a mod colored |\ key too.

For base, going with full UK iso, the extra 1.5u supers, 2u shift, and 2x1u ctrl/alt is making it pretty thicc and might push pricing.

Thank you for the suggestion about the extra tab the hiragana understand now why that's a thing. As for adding UK ISO in the base kit, as this is my first set, I feel having a separate MOQ for that kit may not be reaches. I did also remove a Pg Up and Pg Dn in my base kit to help with that cost.

Outstanding - 100% in!

Gotta say though... missed opportunity to call it "GMK Korbo" =P

LOL

Offline pwade3

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 12:52:04 »

Just some kitting thoughts:

Add an extra tab to your hiragana kit, it adds some flexibility so in theory someone can buy it and fill 2 different boards (e.g. 1 tsangan style, 1 standard style). Additionally, since you've got a mod colored ~` you might as well add a mod colored |\ key too.

For base, going with full UK iso, the extra 1.5u supers, 2u shift, and 2x1u ctrl/alt is making it pretty thicc and might push pricing.

Thank you for the suggestion about the extra tab the hiragana understand now why that's a thing. As for adding UK ISO in the base kit, as this is my first set, I feel having a separate MOQ for that kit may not be reaches. I did also remove a Pg Up and Pg Dn in my base kit to help with that cost.


I don't think you should do a separate ISO kit, for the reasons you mentioned.

I mean for most buyers, doing physical ISO support (via something like R3 |\ and r4 <>) is generally acceptable. The extra R1 caps just add a decent amount of fluff that don't really seem to make too much of a difference, in my experience at least.

Offline Space_Case88

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 12:57:57 »
This is great! Holo is certainly best girl. Also, you should definitely try for an apple RAMA cap. That would tip the scales for sure.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 13:06:59 »
This is great! Holo is certainly best girl. Also, you should definitely try for an apple RAMA cap. That would tip the scales for sure.

Great idea but I already had that planned out if it was possible! I just need to get vendors secured before I start reaching out to people for any collab work.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:27:56 »
Update Log:
11/4/2020 - Fixed some kitting issues. In base kit removed a set of Pg Up and Pg Dn. Added Yen sign to hiragana kit, added mod color |\, and added extra tab. Added 1.75u concave in spacebars kit. Added 1.25 tab in the 40% kit.


I'm sorry, but most of these seem backwards from what they should be, lol. I recommend reverting all of them, except for the mod-colored 1.5u pipe and the 1.25u Tab in 40s.

Rather than removing keys for the most popular layout in the community (R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn for 65%), you should remove keys that are completely unused by any modern ≥60% layout (second 1u Ctrl) or keys that less than 3% of users in the community have a use for (ISO-UK–specific keys).

Also, having a yen sign in an ANSI-based set with hiragana sublegends is inaccurate. That should also be removed.

Spacekeys in a 40s kit are a must with GMK pricing (2◊ 1c, 2c, 2.25c, 2.75c). 1.75c shouldn't be in the spacebar kit (since there are no non-40% boards that use it), but rather the 40s kit, and only optionally at that.

I don't think you should do a separate ISO kit, for the reasons you mentioned.

I mean for most buyers, doing physical ISO support (via something like R3 |\ and r4 <>) is generally acceptable. The extra R1 caps just add a decent amount of fluff that don't really seem to make too much of a difference, in my experience at least.
+1

Edit: links, wording
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:47:31 by konstantin »

Offline Xerpocalypse

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:48:11 »
Update Log:
11/4/2020 - Fixed some kitting issues. In base kit removed a set of Pg Up and Pg Dn. Added Yen sign to hiragana kit, added mod color |\, and added extra tab. Added 1.75u concave in spacebars kit. Added 1.25 tab in the 40% kit.


I'm sorry, but most of these are backwards from what they should be, lol. Revert all of them (except for the mod-colored 1.5u pipe and the 1.25u Tab in 40s).

Rather than removing keys for the most popular layout in the community (R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn for 65%), you should remove keys that are completely unused on any modern ≥60% board (second 1u Ctrl) or keys that less than 3% of users in the community can use (ISO-UK).

Also, having a yen sign in an ANSI-based set with hiragana sublegends is inaccurate. That should also be removed.

Spacekeys in a 40s kit are a must with GMK pricing (2◊ 1c, 2c, 2.25c, 2.75c). 1.75c shouldn't be in the spacebar kit (since there are no non-40% boards that use it), but rather the 40s kit, and only optionally at that.

The inclusion of ISO-UK here is thematic and practical. If you'd read the thread you would understand that. Statistics aren't everything.

The set has a full column for 65% support.

1u R4 CTRL is used in some 1800 layouts, and mainstream 65% boards, as well as 60%s with righthand arrows. Nutty owns 3 of the latter. Let the him design to his preferences as well, the base kit has a lot of mainstream compatibility.

As far as "correct legends" go, there are differing opinions regarding • on pipe/backslash. It seems that despite the fact you speak and complain with an authoritative manner as to legends so often, you're not always right.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:49:42 by Xerpocalypse »

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 14:53:55 »
Advocating for the absence of • is like being in favor of getting rid of tertiary legends for sublegend base kits, like in PuLSE's Arabic and Hangul kits. JIS-JP should be the standard to follow.

Likewise, for the 65% support, it's at least what 65% users expect in a base kit, and won't complain about if that's all there is. If you wanted R3 Pg Up and R4 Pg Dn, perhaps you might want to push for an "Extension" or different child kit of sorts. I would rather see the OP trim the fat on the base kit to keep costs as low as possible while maintaining a minimal standard for support of most layouts.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:21:14 »
The inclusion of ISO-UK here is thematic and practical. If you'd read the thread you would understand that. Statistics aren't everything.

The set has a full column for 65% support.

1u R4 CTRL is used in some 1800 layouts, and mainstream 65% boards, as well as 60%s with righthand arrows. Nutty owns 3 of the latter. Let the him design to his preferences as well, the base kit has a lot of mainstream compatibility.

As far as "correct legends" go, there are differing opinions regarding • on pipe/backslash. It seems that despite the fact you speak and complain with an authoritative manner as to legends so often, you're not always right.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You'll notice that, in my post, I mentioned that only the second 1u Ctrl key should be removed. As far as I'm aware, only OG Cherry G80-1800 boards supported a layout with two 1u Ctrl keys. I also think the only modern 1800 PCB that supports that particular bottom row configuration is Maarten's open-source GH80-1800. Please correct me if I'm wrong and if you know of any others. But this is the reason why I said that the second 1u Ctrl is not useful for modern ≥60% boards. Those board types you mentioned (and several others) do indeed use 1u Ctrl, but only one of them. So, keeping one in the kit is definitely recommended, whereas the second one can be removed.

I have not watched the anime that this set is based on, but reading through the thread I did not equate it being based in a medieval European setting with it being based in England. Maybe the idea is that UK keys have something inherently more medieval or European about them compared to the other options? I don't think that's true. Perhaps you disagree, and that's fine, but I still feel it's totally within reason for me to point out objective reasons for why I think it's bad to include certain less popular keys over other more popular keys. The motivation behind this is that supporting more popular layouts generally tends to lead to a set selling more kits.
Trends change quickly in this community, though, and as soon as I see UK keys jump in popularity like small spacekeys, F13, alternative right column / bottom row options etc. have over the past year, I will be the first one to start asking people to include them in their base kits. But so far that hasn't happened yet.

This set does indeed have a full column for 65% support. It also has a full bottom row for WKL/Tsangan/HHKB support; #~ and \| for ISO support; alpha-colored `~ and \| for ANSI support; etc. — yet it also includes some extra keys (1.5u Supers, full ISO-UK, 2u Shift etc.) on top of those. Those extra keys are not necessary in much the same way that R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn are not necessary, yet they are still included in the kit.
My argument is that these keys are also worth including as much as, if not more so, than those other keys. This again is based on their current popularity in the community, which in turn is based on: how many people use them (photos on Discord, GH, r/mk), how many new sets include them, how many people ask for them in ICs, sales numbers of relevant keyboards, etc.
I also had another thought regarding these keys; see my reply to Mr. LightningXI below.

———

Now, taking a step back and reading through my post, I definitely sounded like an *******. I apologize, it was not my intention. The post was written in a hurry, and I edited it a whole bunch of times to try and get everything I wanted to say in. In hindsight, I should have waited until I had time to write a proper post in which I could relay my thoughts and suggestions in a more appropriate manner. Instead, I ended up sounding like an abrasive, authoritative ****. Again, I apologize. I had no ill intentions, neither towards Nutty nor anyone else who may have helped with the design of this set. Despite not agreeing with some of the recent kitting decisions, I actually like the colorway very much. This sort of was the reason why I was somewhat taken aback seeing those changes made to a base kit that at first looked really appealing to me.

Regarding the • issue, perhaps you could point me to other places (besides the GMK JIS WoB thread) where this was discussed in the context of sets with sublegends of this type, and where these differing opinions may have been presented with some argumentation? Would love to discuss. Speaking of which, I recommend reading through the entirety of the discussion in the thread you linked to to get a fuller picture, in order to hopefully avoid taking things out of context like that again in the future.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:51:44 by konstantin »

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:21:25 »
Advocating for the absence of • is like being in favor of getting rid of tertiary legends for sublegend base kits, like in PuLSE's Arabic and Hangul kits. JIS-JP should be the standard to follow.

Well, JIS-JP does not have • anywhere on the same layer as kana characters. By that logic, it would be even less correct to have it as a quaternary legend in a set like this. If we were to follow JIS-JP in this regard (which isn't entirely appropriate to begin with since the layouts are physically incompatible, and you end up with crucial characters missing altogether; see the ModernJA thread), the correct legend for the pipe key would be •|ー, not \|む•. Either way you look at it, putting • in that top-right position in GMK is inaccurate/misleading/misrepresents the layout (in fact, misrepresents both layouts, JIS-based and ANSI-based).

Honestly, I'm not seeing how this is analogous to removing tertiary legends in Arabic or Hangul kits like you mentioned. It really isn't, in my opinion; not at all. Consider the following:
  • In kits with Arabic sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which Arabic letters you get when typing using the Arabic language layout.
    • Quaternary legends represent which Arabic letters you get while also holding Shift. (GMK Pulse did not have any quaternary legends in its Arabic kit.)

  • In kits with Hangul sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which jamo you get when typing using the Korean language layout, in Hangul mode (toggled using the RAlt 한/영 key by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which jamo you get in Hangul mode while also holding Shift (double consonants).
    • The won sign is on neither the tertiary (Hangul) nor quaternary (Hangul+Shift) “layers”, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the won sign is displayed as a graphical representation of the regular backslash \ character on PCs with the system locale set to KR. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's possible to type the actual Unicode ₩ character using standard Korean IMEs on PC.

  • In kits with hiragana/katakana sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which kana or punctuation marks you get when typing using the Japanese language layout, in Kana mode (toggled using the Kana key on JIS, or Alt+~ on ANSI by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which characters you get in kana mode while also holding Shift (small kana, を and a few additional punctuation marks).
    • The yen sign is on neither the tertiary (Kana) nor quaternary (Kana+Shift) “layers”, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the yen sign is available either as a graphical representation of the regular backslash character \ on PCs with the system locale set to JP; or as the base, non-Shifted output of the pipe key in IME mode (which is different from Kana mode).
For this reason, you could perhaps say that it would be appropriate to put • (or, for that matter, ₩) in the base (bottom-left) position of the pipe keycap (•|む, ₩|). That approach would be slightly more okay — but even then it's debatable, if the rest of the keycap set is based on US-ANSI. But as far as the top-right position for • goes, that's inappropriate in any case.

But yeah, the point is that all of those layouts behave consistently, so I believe that our keycaps should be consistent with that behavior, too.

Of course, please feel free to correct me if I've gotten any of those specifics wrong, especially with regard to the Korean layout/IME (I've checked with two Korean users, but I don't use it myself so I can't be sure). This breakdown is primarily based on how these layouts work on Windows and Linux, and it doesn't take into account how they work on Mac (although it is similar) because layouts on Mac come with their own set of idiosyncrasies, and 99% of keycap sets are based on PC layouts anyway.


Likewise, for the 65% support, it's at least what 65% users expect in a base kit, and won't complain about if that's all there is. If you wanted R3 Pg Up and R4 Pg Dn, perhaps you might want to push for an "Extension" or different child kit of sorts. I would rather see the OP trim the fat on the base kit to keep costs as low as possible while maintaining a minimal standard for support of most layouts.

Well, first of all, they do complain. Here's a little compilation of posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn to be included in ICs here on GH (not including my own posts). These are the result of a quick search of posts in the IC subforum over the past 6 months. Let's compare that to, say, posts asking for 1.5u Supers in that same time period (again, not including my own posts).

Posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Posts asking for 1.5u Super/Code/Command: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Looks like it's pretty close.

Personally, I am a big fan of such “Extension” kits as it were, especially for “alternative” options such as R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn, 1.5u Supers, full ISO-UK support etc. There are two main reasons why I did not suggest going that route here (and in most other sets' cases thus far):
  • The runner chose to have a comprehensive base kit that covers most popular layouts, and included “alternative keys” for several of those layouts (as described in my reply to Xerpocalypse). Therefore, I think that R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn would be appropriate inclusions in such a base kit. To a lesser extent, I also don't want to suggest the runner add any additional kits, seeing as this is GMK and also their very first keyset project (which, by the way, great job for a first project!).

  • Such extension kits don't seem to sell well. For example, GMK MoDo 2 and GMK Minimal 2's Addition kits only sold 6.8% and 10.5% of base kit sales, respectively, despite these kits being everything I could ask for (especially as a R1 owner of both sets, you bet I grabbed a couple). It's a fair assumption that, had this been some other set — say, one that had barely met 250 MOQ in base kit sales — an Addition kit such as this would not have met its MOQ, or would have needed to be bought out by vendors.

    On the other hand, I noticed that GMK Dolch R5's Extension kit did quite well in comparison (which I found a bit surprising, given its size), so something like that would, in my opinion, definitely be worth exploring in future sets. Also, I'm a big fan of super tiny extension kits, such as the one found in GMK Yuri R2, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that does (and especially how it's going to be priced; you know my R1 Yuri is aching for those accent arrow keys ;)).
I also think that, as we move forward and as base kits keep getting larger on average, it might be worth experimenting with merging the two right column options into a single one, using keys with generic legends.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:25:30 by konstantin »

Offline VipermanGT2

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:24:10 »
Advocating for the absence of • is like being in favor of getting rid of tertiary legends for sublegend base kits, like in PuLSE's Arabic and Hangul kits. JIS-JP should be the standard to follow.

Well, JIS-JP does not have • anywhere on the same layer as kana characters. By that logic, it would be even less correct to have it as a quaternary legend in a set like this. If we were to follow JIS-JP in this regard (which isn't entirely appropriate to begin with since the layouts are physically incompatible, and you end up with crucial characters missing altogether; see the ModernJA thread), the correct legend for the pipe key would be •|ー, not \|む•. Either way you look at it, putting • in that top-right position in GMK is inaccurate/misleading/misrepresents the layout (in fact, misrepresents both layouts, JIS-based and ANSI-based).

Honestly, I'm not seeing how this is analogous to removing tertiary legends in Arabic or Hangul kits like you mentioned. It really isn't, in my opinion; not at all. Consider the following:
  • In kits with Arabic sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which Arabic letters you get when typing using the Arabic language layout.
    • Quaternary legends represent which Arabic letters you get while also holding Shift. (GMK Pulse did not have any quaternary legends in its Arabic kit.)

  • In kits with Hangul sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which jamo you get when typing using the Korean language layout, in Hangul mode (toggled using the RAlt 한/영 key by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which jamo you get in Hangul mode while also holding Shift (double consonants).
    • The won sign is on neither the tertiary (Hangul) nor quaternary (Hangul+Shift) ďlayersĒ, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the won sign is displayed as a graphical representation of the regular backslash \ character on PCs with the system locale set to KR. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's possible to type the actual Unicode ₩ character using standard Korean IMEs on PC.

  • In kits with hiragana/katakana sublegends:
    • Tertiary legends represent which kana or punctuation marks you get when typing using the Japanese language layout, in Kana mode (toggled using the Kana key on JIS, or Alt+~ on ANSI by default).
    • Quaternary legends represent which characters you get in kana mode while also holding Shift (small kana, を and a few additional punctuation marks).
    • The yen sign is on neither the tertiary (Kana) nor quaternary (Kana+Shift) ďlayersĒ, therefore it is not appropriate to put it in either of those positions on a keycap.
      Instead, the yen sign is available either as a graphical representation of the regular backslash character \ on PCs with the system locale set to JP; or as the base, non-Shifted output of the pipe key in IME mode (which is different from Kana mode).
For this reason, you could perhaps say that it would be appropriate to put • (or, for that matter, ₩) in the base (bottom-left) position of the pipe keycap (•|む, ₩|). That approach would be slightly more okay ó but even then it's debatable, if the rest of the keycap set is based on US-ANSI. But as far as the top-right position for • goes, that's inappropriate in any case.

But yeah, the point is that all of those layouts behave consistently, so I believe that our keycaps should be consistent with that behavior, too.

Of course, please feel free to correct me if I've gotten any of those specifics wrong, especially with regard to the Korean layout/IME (I've checked with two Korean users, but I don't use it myself so I can't be sure). This breakdown is primarily based on how these layouts work on Windows and Linux, and it doesn't take into account how they work on Mac (although it is similar) because layouts on Mac come with their own set of idiosyncrasies, and 99% of keycap sets are based on PC layouts anyway.


Likewise, for the 65% support, it's at least what 65% users expect in a base kit, and won't complain about if that's all there is. If you wanted R3 Pg Up and R4 Pg Dn, perhaps you might want to push for an "Extension" or different child kit of sorts. I would rather see the OP trim the fat on the base kit to keep costs as low as possible while maintaining a minimal standard for support of most layouts.

Well, first of all, they do complain. Here's a little compilation of posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn to be included in ICs here on GH (not including my own posts). These are the result of a quick search of posts in the IC subforum over the past 6 months. Let's compare that to, say, posts asking for 1.5u Supers in that same time period (again, not including my own posts).

Posts asking for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Posts asking for 1.5u Super/Code/Command: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Looks like it's pretty close.

Personally, I am a big fan of such ďExtensionĒ kits as it were, especially for situating ďalternativeĒ options such as R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn, 1.5u Supers, full ISO-UK support etc. There are two main reasons why I did not suggest going that route here (and in most other sets' cases thus far):
  • The runner chose to have a comprehensive base kit that covers most popular layouts, and included ďalternative keysĒ for several of those layouts (as described in my reply to Xerpocalypse). Therefore, I think that R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn would be appropriate inclusions in such a base kit. To a lesser extent, I also don't want to suggest the runner add any additional kits, seeing as this is GMK and also their very first keyset project (which, by the way, great job for a first project!).

  • Such extension kits don't seem to sell well. For example, GMK MoDo 2 and GMK Minimal 2's Addition kits only sold 6.8% and 10.5% of base kit sales, respectively, despite these kits being everything I could ask for (especially as a R1 owner of both sets, you bet I grabbed a couple). It's a fair assumption that, had this been some other set ó say, one that had barely met 250 MOQ in base kit sales ó an Addition kit such as this would not have met its MOQ, or would have needed to be bought out by vendors.

    On the other hand, I noticed that GMK Dolch R5's Extension kit did quite well in comparison (which I found a bit surprising, given its size), so something like that would, in my opinion, definitely be worth exploring in future sets. Also, I'm a big fan of super tiny extension kits, such as the one found in GMK Yuri R2, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that does (and especially how it's going to be priced; you know my R1 Yuri is aching for those accent arrow keys ;)).

^^^ Plz include TLDR.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 22:32:28 »
^^^ Plz include TLDR.

tl;dr: I provide arguments for what I said previously and also apologize for coming off as an ******* initially.

Offline VipermanGT2

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 23:09:51 »
^^^ Plz include TLDR.

tl;dr: I provide arguments for what I said previously and also apologize for coming off as an ******* initially.

Thanks.  :thumb:

Offline greenranger17

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 04 November 2020, 23:52:02 »
essay

relatively new geek here but you seem to comment everywhere asking for these things. looks like youre quite the niche keycap representative but who here actually really knows just how important these keycap preferences really are. for all i know none of these fellow geeks youre speaking up for are even interested in this spice and wolf keyset. if there are a bunch of them im sure they will fill out the google form asking for it themselves and would be nice for them to comment in here about it too and then nuttykids3 will take it into consideration. you post a lot for these geeks in all the threads flooding them with essays that never go unnoticed but maybe the geeks that want this can ask for themselves. just cuz the examples you linked before were asking for other sets doesnt automatically mean their request should transfer over. they might not even care about this one and your essays might feel as if its a bigger problem than you seem to make it.

and even out of your 20 ex you link for the r3 pgup and r4 pgdn thats only 11 unique people with leexy asking 4x and oldcat asking 5x and motte asking 2x. not as important with these 1.5u super/command/code but there are only 13 unique people out of the 17 ex you give with customersupport asking 5x.


enough of this essay of my own. this is a nice keyset and happen to like it so i think nuttykids3 did a good job  :thumb:

-gr
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 November 2020, 02:50:19 by greenranger17 »

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 02:46:43 »
```
[Clipping this down so the quote is a bit shorter]

Now, taking a step back and reading through my post, I definitely sounded like an *******. I apologize, it was not my intention. The post was written in a hurry, and I edited it a whole bunch of times to try and get everything I wanted to say in. In hindsight, I should have waited until I had time to write a proper post in which I could relay my thoughts and suggestions in a more appropriate manner. Instead, I ended up sounding like an abrasive, authoritative ****. Again, I apologize. I had no ill intentions, neither towards Nutty nor anyone else who may have helped with the design of this set. Despite not agreeing with some of the recent kitting decisions, I actually like the colorway very much. This sort of was the reason why I was somewhat taken aback seeing those changes made to a base kit that at first looked really appealing to me.
```

That was a lot to read through but thank you for that response. The original comment did come off a little harsh, however I do see now that you genuinely do care about the hobby. Those points you brought up gave me some information I didnít know much about before. Additionally I was unaware about you and your track history of similar post, but now I see the context as why some stuff appeared there.

I will consider making a poll about the ¥ in the Google from about it in the future depending on how feedback goes. Lastly, I appreciate the apology and thank you for saying Iíve done great with the project so far and Iím glad your interested in this set.

Offline shimalazor

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 03:19:45 »
Guess I'm in and will buy everything I can  :))

Offline harlekein

  • Posts: 393
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 05:12:46 »
Oh boy, the xolor police is in full force now. Even trying to dictate whether you are allowed to run this set or not.

GMK another weeb set doesn't appeal to me, but I am really tired of these people trying to enforce non-existent laws.

Offline break

  • Posts: 235
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 05 November 2020, 09:27:32 »
Oh boy, the xolor police is in full force now. Even trying to dictate whether you are allowed to run this set or not.

GMK another weeb set doesn't appeal to me, but I am really tired of these people trying to enforce non-existent laws.

Frankly speaking, I only care about whether this + the other set run out of personal interest. My two keysets are scheduled for GB, and it'll be helpful to know how the community reacts to similar-looking keysets today versus even a year ago.

Luckily for nutty, every time I reply to some "color police" comment like this I bump their thread and provide a bit more visibility. :) Anyway: best of luck with GB, nutty.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 06 November 2020, 10:54:35 »
I love Holo so much. I never thought I'd be interested in a colorway related to her.

Also, and I mean this as an absolute compliment, this set looks like the farm/barnyard cousin of GMK Camping.

Offline Mysteriya

  • Posts: 4
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 10 November 2020, 21:57:56 »
There is absolutely zero question I'm in. If this launches I'm buying it no questions asked. I love holo

Offline noorejji

  • Posts: 187
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 07:14:55 »
Horo best girl

Offline Click This

  • Posts: 17
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 19:08:51 »
I've had this avatar on here for five years, my time has come

Matrix 1.2og | Matrix 2.0add | Justsystems x Evija HHKB | Realforce 91U | Canoe Gen.1

Offline Honey

  • Posts: 24
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 20:52:24 »
Would love to see hiragana sublegends in the base kit as opposed to its own kit as the inspiration comes from an anime, just my preference.

Offline I.Hiyori

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 11 November 2020, 22:37:44 »
Definitely in on this, novelties got me hooked. Especially the tail at the corner of the spacebars. GLWIC

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 14 November 2020, 19:34:27 »
Just wanted to give a little update. I have a handled most of my proxies, but I'm still looking for a main vendor for my region. Thank you to everyone for filling out the IC form, I have received just under 60 replies so far and that's awesome! Most replies that I saw and wanted address were wanting to see more from this set such as deskmats and a metal/brass cap. I have ideas for mat designs and I am currently looking for an artist. As for the metal/brass cap I do have a design for it, I was waiting to secure more vendors before reaching out for potential collabs. Addition to that, I am also potentially open to other collabs like artisans, cables, and maybe a keyboard sleeve. I look forward to being able to share more news coming soon.

Offline NaviUy

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 16 November 2020, 07:53:32 »
Oh my gosh! This is a must cop from me! Please release this!!!!!!

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 17 November 2020, 18:23:55 »
I'm excited to share the new deskmat design with you all! I have one more in the works. I currently just added a mock up of it, but I will try to get actual renders done once I have both designs.

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 17 November 2020, 19:03:06 »
Please no centered design deskmat -- centered designs get covered when keyboards are placed on them  :))

Offline Traveler

  • Posts: 278
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 18 November 2020, 19:37:58 »
Dang that mat looks nice. I'm definitely in for one of those.

Offline UberPlatypus

  • Posts: 26
  • Location: New York
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 18 November 2020, 21:57:40 »
Gib

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Offline UberPlatypus

  • Posts: 26
  • Location: New York
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 18 November 2020, 21:59:44 »
Can we get a deskmat with Spice/Wise Wolf on it, she cute

Seeing a collab for an artisan keycap, if the escape novelty were aluminum and done by a company perhaps.

Regardless of collabs this is the cutest set in a while that I have seen and hope to pick this up.

Keep up the great work!
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 November 2020, 22:06:16 by UberPlatypus »

Offline crestia

  • Posts: 15
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 01:18:35 »
If possible, pls have a SEA vendor for the set.

Btw, deskmat looking great :)

Offline Oddstag

  • Posts: 50
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 03:39:31 »
Novelty ISO enter key always gets bonus points from me.

Offline yenel

  • Posts: 18
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 04:19:34 »
I've never watched spice and wolf, but this keyset makes me feel like i should
Love the color scheme, and thank you for adding an extra tab to the hiragana kit!

Offline lush_bunny

  • Posts: 411
  • Location: Philippines
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 19 November 2020, 15:35:03 »
If possible, pls have a SEA vendor for the set.

Btw, deskmat looking great :)

+1 for SEA.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 03:45:02 »
Thank you for the feedback on both the IC thread and the form. I have now spoken with iLumkb and they will be happy to run the set for the SEA region. I also did add the second deskmat design.

Please no centered design deskmat -- centered designs get covered when keyboards are placed on them  :))

As for the new deskmat design, I decided to purposely go with this style of a ďcenteredĒ design as in this case itís not to block much since the major design aspect of it is the symmetry of the cluster being the focus in a somewhat U-shaped pattern.

Additionally, with both my deskmats, I wanted to stray away from the typical minimalist vector-y designs and try something kind of unique. I hope you all enjoy them!

Offline infornography

  • Posts: 5
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 10:54:05 »
Only thing I'm not fond of on this set is the S,W novelty keys. To me they feel like they
clash a bit, but then again I'm the only one complaining lol. If I had my choice i'd switch it to
a paw print and maybe come coins


Offline donny_pete

  • Posts: 32
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 11:36:52 »
This color combo is PogChamp  :thumb:

Offline lush_bunny

  • Posts: 411
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 18:57:08 »
Only thing I'm not fond of on this set is the S,W novelty keys. To me they feel like they
clash a bit, but then again I'm the only one complaining lol. If I had my choice i'd switch it to
a paw print and maybe come coins

Nah, you're not alone. It's the only kit I didn't check in the IC Form. The Ye Olde English homage to Spice & Wolf feels liks it clashes with both the normal base kit and the hiragana kit imho. I think a redesign might sway me though. Even a simple [Spice] and [Wolf] would be nice replacements for Ctrl and Alt. Maybe a Wolf head icon for the Win/Super keys as well.

But I've said, I already like this set and colorway so let's see what the results of the IC are.

Offline Melanic

  • Posts: 71
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 21 November 2020, 20:00:38 »
Oh, big fan of all things Spice and Wolf. Even backed the VR game which I never did get the key to...

I'm definitely in for at least the novelties. The red legends are a bit too bright for me and would have preferred having the same orange colour of the mods, maybe it's just the renders.

Question about the desk mats though. Could anyone tell me how these desk mats compare to common gaming style mouse pads like the Steelseries QCK in terms of usability/performance (friction, durability, cleanable?). It doesn't have to be these specific ones, which no one has yet, but similar themed desk mats you'd find with other keysets.

Offline infornography

  • Posts: 5
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 07:41:59 »
Only thing I'm not fond of on this set is the S,W novelty keys. To me they feel like they
clash a bit, but then again I'm the only one complaining lol. If I had my choice i'd switch it to
a paw print and maybe come coins

Nah, you're not alone. It's the only kit I didn't check in the IC Form. The Ye Olde English homage to Spice & Wolf feels liks it clashes with both the normal base kit and the hiragana kit imho. I think a redesign might sway me though. Even a simple [Spice] and [Wolf] would be nice replacements for Ctrl and Alt. Maybe a Wolf head icon for the Win/Super keys as well.

But I've said, I already like this set and colorway so let's see what the results of the IC are.

Yea, I was thinking of a wolf head icon too and something else. I just wasn't sold on it since I see alot of key's with wolf's head icons too.I was also thinking of replacing one of them with a Cart's Wheel as an idea. But yea, I'm really hoping they change the S&W.

Offline Nutty

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:32:03 »
I thought about a wolf head but it felt kinda meme-y to since all I could think about was generic wolf howling in the moonlight designs lol.

Iím currently working on some changes to the novelties. I will be removing some keys while adding some new novelties which are in the works which will related to aspects of the series for travel and economy which I realize I missed those motifs.

My biggest priority is compatibility to the majority. So Iím making some conscious decisions while deciding what to remove and add since I want to keep cost down. This being my first set, Iím just trying to make sure I appeal to most people. Thank you to everyone so far for the support and feedback.

Extra note, Iím my last senior semester of college and finals are coming up so bare with me if there is a little silence.

Offline lush_bunny

  • Posts: 411
  • Location: Philippines
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:52:55 »
I thought about a wolf head but it felt kinda meme-y to since all I could think about was generic wolf howling in the moonlight designs lol.

Iím currently working on some changes to the novelties. I will be removing some keys while adding some new novelties which are in the works which will related to aspects of the series for travel and economy which I realize I missed those motifs.

My biggest priority is compatibility to the majority. So Iím making some conscious decisions while deciding what to remove and add since I want to keep cost down. This being my first set, Iím just trying to make sure I appeal to most people. Thank you to everyone so far for the support and feedback.

Extra note, Iím my last senior semester of college and finals are coming up so bare with me if there is a little silence.

Thanks for the heads up, man. Good luck with finals.

Online LightningXI

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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 29 November 2020, 05:26:18 »
Good luck with finals and finishing up school things!

I look forward to more for this set.

Offline sojourntv

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 29 November 2020, 19:18:08 »
Definitely Buying this!

Offline Oddstag

  • Posts: 50
Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 09:29:27 »
I thought about a wolf head but it felt kinda meme-y to since all I could think about was generic wolf howling in the moonlight designs lol.

Iím currently working on some changes to the novelties. I will be removing some keys while adding some new novelties which are in the works which will related to aspects of the series for travel and economy which I realize I missed those motifs.

My biggest priority is compatibility to the majority. So Iím making some conscious decisions while deciding what to remove and add since I want to keep cost down. This being my first set, Iím just trying to make sure I appeal to most people. Thank you to everyone so far for the support and feedback.

Extra note, Iím my last senior semester of college and finals are coming up so bare with me if there is a little silence.

For what it's worth, the baked in UK ISO support is deeply appreciated.

Offline Space_Case88

  • Posts: 32
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (New Deskmat Design)
« Reply #95 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 16:52:29 »
This will be my set of 2021. It looks so good!

Offline Nutty

  • Formerly nuttykids3
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 01 December 2020, 13:04:24 »
Made some changes to the novelties. I removed the 2u tail, 2.25u wheat, 1u S, and 1u W. I added two new designs. A wagon wheel and a coin were added to symbolize travel and economics.

I felt that removing the 1u's made the most sense in terms of compatibility since the few layout that use the 1u keys usually are paired with 1.5u as well. As for the deletion of the 2u tail and 2.25u wheat, I thought this was a decent decision as I wanted to cut the cost down and felt that most people would use one novelty over the other. Additional I cut them to compensate for adding the new designs for r4 novelties since there was some feedback of people who were not a fan of the S and W keys.
Before

After
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 December 2020, 13:35:23 by Nutty »

Offline lush_bunny

  • Posts: 411
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Re: [IC] GMK Wise Wolf (Novelties Updated)
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 01 December 2020, 16:17:16 »
Made some changes to the novelties. I removed the 2u tail, 2.25u wheat, 1u S, and 1u W. I added two new designs. A wagon wheel and a coin were added to symbolize travel and economics.

I felt that removing the 1u's made the most sense in terms of compatibility since the few layout that use the 1u keys usually are paired with 1.5u as well. As for the deletion of the 2u tail and 2.25u wheat, I thought this was a decent decision as I wanted to cut the cost down and felt that most people would use one novelty over the other. Additional I cut them to compensate for adding the new designs for r4 novelties since there was some feedback of people who were not a fan of the S and W keys.
Before
Show Image

After
Show Image


I dig the new bottom row novelties!