Author Topic: Razer Mechanical? (Read 232420 times)

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #50 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 00:14:08 »

Quote from: wellington1869;214278

dude's camera work made me sea-sick.

is it too much to ask these reviewers to just stop talking and press a few keys down at different speeds? Christs sake.

Tell me about it. I've seen worse "reviews" though, such as one obnoxious person who could hardly speak English going on about how "clicky" his keyboard was, and nothing more than that; then bashing commenters who complained by calling them poor for not being able to afford one (Steelseries 7G).

wellington1869 · « **Reply #51 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 00:24:40 »

Quote from: ManjyomeThunder;214279

Tell me about it. I've seen worse "reviews" though, such as one obnoxious person who could hardly speak English going on about how "clicky" his keyboard was, and nothing more than that; then bashing commenters who complained by calling them poor for not being able to afford one (Steelseries 7G).

lol, how come these guys get review models and no one from GH ever manages to land one.

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #52 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 00:27:44 »

Quote from: wellington1869;214282

lol, how come these guys get review models and no one from GH ever manages to land one.

Really! I'm actually new here, but you'd think Razer would give their MECHANICAL keyboard to someone who has actually had one before. Then again, if they give it to a normal rubber dome user, there's definitely an improvement regardless of preference. If they give it to one of us, we could complain about the feel compared to various other switches. It's a hype scheme. D:

wellington1869 · « **Reply #53 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 00:33:06 »

Quote from: ManjyomeThunder;214284

Really! I'm actually new here, but you'd think Razer would give their MECHANICAL keyboard to someone who has actually had one before. Then again, if they give it to a normal rubber dome user, there's definitely an improvement regardless of preference. If they give it to one of us, we could complain about the feel compared to various other switches. It's a hype scheme. D:

I think you're right, we'd just take it apart and analyze it to death and criticize it to death

The regular gamers will just go "oooh, backlighting!"

Brodie337 · « **Reply #54 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 00:36:50 »

Could the travel thing (in Razer speak) mean from the top of the stroke to the acutation point, rather than the bottom of the stroke?

I'm still thinking Cherry Blues.

aegrotatio · « **Reply #55 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 00:42:14 »

It sounds very Cherry Blue to me, not really ALPS clicky at all. I vote for Cherry Blues in this keyboard.

I wish someone would pop a keycap so we might see for sure.

.

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #56 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 00:57:55 »

I've never heard a Cherry Blue in person, but it doesn't sound anything like the imitation ALPS in my ABS M1. So, Cherry switches are more likely.

goneim · « **Reply #57 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 03:18:48 »

Its blue, though with 50g actuation force, check this out

I could have been there at the GamesCom in Cologne

waperboy · « **Reply #58 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 04:21:09 »

Quote from: goneim;214318

Its blue, though with 50g actuation force, check this out

I could have been there at the GamesCom in Cologne

That page doesn't actually say anything about the type of switch...

In Stereo! · « **Reply #59 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 05:16:56 »

That page says nothing besides it is shiny and made by Razer.

Oh, yeah, and in the case you didn't know, it is the first mechanical keyboard designed from the ground up for gamers.

ch_123 · « **Reply #60 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 05:21:35 »

Quote from: aegrotatio;214243

I'm so bitter about that keyboard's situation. So what if it was not NKRO? The complainers KILLED this excellent product on tests they would never encounter in real life playing games. As a result, a great, silent, heavy, space-saving, and very well-put-together ALPS-clone keyboard particularly good for typists is now out of production forever. I'm glad I bought two.

Damn right! What's wrong with a bit of blatant false advertising here and there! And so what if it was vastly inferior to keyboard that were available for less than it originally cost when it hit the market?

It was only popular because it was being sold for $20-40. It was only being sold for that much because it was a) a mediocre keyboard (you can get a Dell AT101W for cheaper which has better build quality) and b) they had to get rid of them because they lied to people about its capabilities and thus they couldn't sell them.

ch_123 · « **Reply #61 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 06:15:33 »

Quote from: wellington1869;214260

the video sounds like some kind of alps to me. There's a "hissing" on the downstroke that reminds me more of alps than cherries.
also in the video anyway it doesnt sound like there's a click leaf, the main noise seems to be from bottoming-out clack.

If you mash down on Blue Cherries hard, and then record it with a crappy camera, I'd say you'd probably get a sound like that =P

As I said over on OCN, when you weigh up the odds that this is a super-secret-special custom mechanical keyboard that has been developed by bald men wearing spectacles and white coats deep within the bowels of Razer's office that just happens to have the exact same operating characteristics of a Taiwanese OEM Cherry keyboard, versus the odds that Razer's marketing department is blasting everyone with the bull**** hose, I know where my bet is =P

timw4mail · « **Reply #62 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 06:57:31 »

Now if Logitech would release a mechanical keyboard, we'd be all set...

ch_123 · « **Reply #63 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 07:51:39 »

They'd dig up our "What is a mechanical keyboard" thread, find that we concluded that it's something that uses a metal spring in it. They would then proceed to modify their "Perfect Stroke" (or whatever their branding is that sounds suspiciously like a sex toy) scissor switches to have a little metal spring in it that serves no purpose other than to allow them to market it as a mechanical keyboard.

To top it off, their marketing material will proclaim that the keyboard has been developed in secrecy over the past century by a cabal of Taiwanese Freemasons.

itlnstln · « **Reply #64 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 08:30:59 »

This was classic:

Quote from: ch_123

Razer's marketing department is blasting everyone with the bull**** hose

I had a ROLFMAO moment (I have a very vivid imagination).

Phaedrus2129 · « **Reply #65 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 08:48:24 »

I just sent their marketing department an email asking for a sample, so we'll see if they're willing to have their product reviewed by someone (nominally) competent.

itlnstln · « **Reply #66 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 08:49:08 »

Here's an article from Engadget. A couple of the commenters are speculating ALPS and Cherry blues as well. The press release in the Engadget piece seems to describe Cherry blues, but again, it's all speculation until someone pops a cap.

The rest of the comments are pretty funny, too.

timw4mail · « **Reply #67 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:16:32 »

Quote from: itlnstln;214372

The rest of the comments are pretty funny, too.

On slashdot, the comments are usually worth reading more than the articles.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #68 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:21:51 »

Which is scary.

Because often Slashdot comments are of... low caliber.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #69 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:34:40 »

Quote from: ch_123;214343

If you mash down on Blue Cherries hard, and then record it with a crappy camera, I'd say you'd probably get a sound like that =P

thats true.

If its straight blues tho I wonder how they can get away with claiiming they've been 'designing the switch for 5 years' (or something like that).

ch_123 · « **Reply #70 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:44:19 »

See "bull**** hose" post on previous page...

itlnstln · « **Reply #71 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:47:21 »

Quote from: wellington1869;214389

thats true.

If its straight blues tho I wonder how they can get away with claiiming they've been 'designing the switch for 5 years' (or something like that).

Every time I see one of their press releases, it's a little different. First, it was a custom switch with 2mm travel, now it's 2mm actuation with 4mm travel. First, it was the only mechanical gaming keyboard ever made, now it's the only mechanical gaming keyboard built from the ground up with light switches. Who knows? It doesn't really matter anyway. It's going to come out, and it's either going to suck or it won't. In either case, we'll just have to wait and see.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #72 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:48:53 »

if its a straight blues board, who here wants to buy it anyway?

(i probably do, lol. it looks cool. probably just the non-backlit $80 version. backlighting is great but $40 more for it? jesus).

[i really think staples/bestbuy should wind up stocking it, so should be able to try it out in person soon enough]

bhtooefr · « **Reply #73 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:50:43 »

Engadget just changed their comment system, and their old one allowed you to rate posts LOWER, as well as higher. (And, it had caps on both directions.) Posts below a certain threshold were hidden by default.

Now, it has no way to vote down, and you can only vote up (with no cap) or report to the mods.

itlnstln · « **Reply #74 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 09:51:53 »

The Razer marketing team hard at work:

itlnstln · « **Reply #75 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 11:47:38 »

One thing I just thought about on this 'board is that front lip. It's neither a full wrist rest nor is it short enough to make using one convenient. Good thing this is going to be in Best Buy, etc. for a try-before-you-buy.

ch_123 · « **Reply #76 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 12:08:02 »

Quote from: itlnstln;214412

Every time I see one of their press releases, it's a little different. First, it was a custom switch with 2mm travel, now it's 2mm actuation with 4mm travel. First, it was the only mechanical gaming keyboard ever made, now it's the only mechanical gaming keyboard built from the ground up with light switches. Who knows? It doesn't really matter anyway. It's going to come out, and it's either going to suck or it won't. In either case, we'll just have to wait and see.

Eventually they'll tell the truth and say "The only mechanical keyboard with a Razer logo on it". Then they will release a successor model, and this will also become bull****.

Laggy-gaga · « **Reply #77 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 12:08:08 »

There is a guy(yes, there always be) claims that this razer keyboard will be OEM by IONE.
Not familiar? How about Scorpion M10
And the swithes are Cherry Blue
We will see in a couple of days

itlnstln · « **Reply #78 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 12:09:36 »

That wouldn't surprise me. The iOne thing, that is.

kelchm · « **Reply #79 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 12:41:45 »

Definitely going to be keeping an eye on this.

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #80 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 13:25:11 »

I asked the guy from the earlier posted YouTube review to pull a keycap, but he saw this thread and got mad that we didn't enjoy the review, and pretty much told me to piss off. Reviewers are quite the pleasant bunch.

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #81 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 14:00:15 »

I'm going to put money on them being MX Blues at this point. Razer is pretty much focusing its competitive advertising on other "mechanical gaming keyboards", not mech. keyboards in general, which as far as I know narrows it down to the ABS M1, the Steelseries 7G and the Decks.

The imitation ALPS in the ABS M1 and the MX Blacks in the latter two both fall in line with the actuation forces of 60-80g quoted by Razer, and seeing as the Blacks are best described as the "linear" type and (though I don't know the technical details) my ABS M1 didn't seem extremely tactile at all, it'd fall in line with Razer's advertising if they opted for Blues (50g, tactile) comparatively.

There's no way in hell they actually designed a "custom switch". They're a light up keyboard company, not a keyswitch manufacturer. I could care less about the marketing spin though, I just want a nice keyboard. And since they clearly didn't opt for imitation ALPS, Blues fit the most out of other readily available keyswitches.

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #82 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 14:36:34 »

Quote from: ripster;214595

Welly does that to people. Actually I was going to post that the video was made by a drunken sailor on the high seas as well.

His camera work was poor, it's not like he can really deny it. These people need to learn to move the product, not the camera itself. His reply to me wasn't too kind either.

Quote

"@manjyoumethunder I would do until a good friend of mine linked me to your webpage consisting of nothing but thick rimmed anorexics throbbing at my lack of ground work undertaken previous to this review. Kind of questions your faith in humanity when an individual is insulted for not spending his living days examining the inner workings of a computer keyboard.

get a grip."

washuai · « **Reply #83 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 14:51:10 »

I guess in addition to the reviewer needing camera lessons, speech lessons, how to do 30 to 60 minute google research, he needs lessons in professionalism and some humble pie. Just your typical YouTube experience.

At least there is some actual video of the keyboard.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #84 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 15:02:59 »

Quote from: ManjyomeThunder;214551

I asked the guy from the earlier posted YouTube review to pull a keycap, but he saw this thread and got mad that we didn't enjoy the review, and pretty much told me to piss off. Reviewers are quite the pleasant bunch.

Hahahaha thats kind of hilarious.

muchadoaboutnothing · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 16:32:01 »

In his defense, this thread basically went "Hey, you have Parkinsons and can't hold a camera, you suck. Can you do us a favor?"

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #86 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 16:37:35 »

Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;214676

In his defense, this thread basically went "Hey, you have Parkinsons and can't hold a camera, you suck. Can you do us a favor?"

Regardless of who is holding the camera, it's simply a poor way to tape reviews. It's a much better idea to simply mount the camera in a stationary position and move the product around it. It's not like he can deny that his video was shaky.

Besides, we're not "throbbing at my lack of ground work undertaken previous to this review", and he wasn't "insulted for not spending his living days examining the inner workings of a computer keyboard". We're mocking his lack of camera skills.

Someone else will get a review board soon enough who will be less butthurt. If this guy wants to do a review video without providing an actual review, he's free to do so.

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #87 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 16:52:09 »

Considering we're all but certain these switches are Cherry MX Blues now, here's the million dollar question: Why? Most sources I've seen say that they're decidedly bad for gaming because they're "too" light. Is this true, or just an exaggeration? They seemed pretty easy to press from what I've seen, but unless you're particular cameraman, is that really going to be an issue?

itlnstln · « **Reply #88 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 16:53:59 »

I always thought that the issue was with the clicking more so than the lightness.

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #89 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 16:57:16 »

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6456

iOne Scorpius

Quote

Not Recommended
The standard IBM matrix means that standard WASD gaming works perfectly fine. The problem is that the light switches might make it easier to accidentally press a key if your finger wanders or lands in between two keys.

As compared to the very very clicky Unicomps

Quote

Recommended
It accepts all combinations of keys used during gaming (like Q+W+D+Shift+Spacebar), and the stiffer springs make it unlikely to accidentally press the wrong keys by accident. But it lacks true n-key rollover and it's noise might make a game unenjoyable without headphones - it's the loudest keyboard in this lineup. However, the 'terminal' models have 12 keys on the left side that send "Shift + F1 to F12" scancodes to the PC, and can be used as macro keys using the program Autohotkey.

ironman31 · « **Reply #90 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 16:58:06 »

I don't think they're bad for gaming because of the lightness, (the browns are lighter and I enjoy them when gaming) I think they are bad because they aren't as smooth as the browns, blacks, or topres.

washuai · « **Reply #91 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 17:31:29 »

Blues and gaming cons:
1) Key has to be let back up further (fractions of a mm), before pressing it again, than blacks, reds, browns and clears.
2) If you're gaming at LAN or on a headset you can annoy you might tick off your team mates
3) They're light keys, so the heavier handed folks, could accidentally press a key, easier than with blacks, clears or buckling springs.

Pros:
1) You have auditory confirmation of when the key activated.
2) It is easier to feel when the key activates, than linear or brown switches.
3) You can tick off your enemies or competition. They need to learn to concentrate better.
4) They're good for typing
5) Less fatigue, than when typing with blacks/clears/higher force switches

Couldn't recommend this razer to stepmania player, because it doesn't state NKRO.

ch_123 · « **Reply #92 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 17:38:53 »

The main issue is the "fire key issue", whereby the key 'unclicks' at a higher point than it clicks on the down press. As far as I know, the actually electrical registration of the key takes place at the same point, but the tactility does not.

As I pointed out over at OCN at one point, it's due to the fact that the click element in the Blue switch is has some degree of free vertical movement along the slider. On the down press, the contact with the metal leaf pushes it upwards. On the up press, contact with the metal leaf pushes it down. Thus, it is physically located in a different point in the key's travel depending on whether you are pressing it or releasing it.

Arc'xer · « **Reply #93 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 17:50:11 »

Quote from: ripster;214701

Theory is fine but plenty of people game fine with Cherry Blues.

Plus recommending this keyboard or not when you're not sure what switch it is seems silly.

Somebody just needs to get their hands on one or not insult someone that does.

Blues can work for gaming though the action is noticeably delayed if your used to other switches like brown or linear. But they work, the biggest problem is the noise is unnerving for gaming in a need quiet to listen to enemies around or music. For typing it's fine and enjoyable but that individualistic click, click, click does become annoying with the irregularity of key actions during gaming.

But I think the blues have that "Fun Factor". Although it does make it like "Oh mechanical = old = noisy, double-edged saying". I still think people would prefer it as a first buy or as well let's see if it really is THAT different from a run of the mill membrane dome. So in a way the blues do put out an impression of difference.

But then that just raises a question if razer is selling the blues to build up interest. And later sell other switches and maybe go so far as to say these are superior to blues and this and that and basically resell the same boards with different switches to the same who bought the blues thinking this new switch makes them better.

Not saying it won't, blues can be annoying but seems very, VERY strange they would choose the blues. If they spent THAT many years researching then they obviously weren't looking too well into it.

Edit: It could also be that maybe razer is trying to get into a mass market sell i.e. try and reach media users and business as silly as it sounds. Because they did add a lot of macro features from reading on the keyboard. So maybe they are on an underlying "gaming", they are also marketing to other markets to expand sales with the blues. Or for those who want a flashy looking keyboard despite not gaming or anything.

Phaedrus2129 · « **Reply #94 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 17:55:05 »

They weren't spending years looking into it, and that's why it has blues. Do you really think Razer looked at a bunch of loons (no offense) hoarding Model Ms, sniping rare boards off eBay, and importing Filcos from Japan for >$200 and thought to themselves, "Hmmm, I see a way to make massive amounts of money off of the gaming community here!" No. They realized "Hey! Everyone else is doing this! Let's do it and call everyone else a reee-tahd! Nyah nya-nyah!"

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #95 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 17:59:41 »

I don't necessarily think they spent time researching it, but the whole "holy crap, people are paying $100+ for these things and they sell even WITHOUT macros/function keys/backlighting" aspect probably had something to do with its' release.

In any case, even if it does use Blues and isn't the BEST for gaming, it'll be one of the most affordable ones with (hopefully) good build quality and a decent amount of added features (that macro row could DEFINITELY come in handy in say, Visual Studio or Eclipse).

Will be purchasing at launch.

ch_123 · « **Reply #96 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 18:03:04 »

$80 for a Blue Cherry board is good, but I personally would save up a bit more and get the less hideous Rosewill keyboard.

But isn't that Adesso keyboard cheaper anyway?

ManjyomeThunder · « **Reply #97 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 18:05:35 »

Quote from: ch_123;214716

$80 for a Blue Cherry board is good, but I personally would save up a bit more and get the less hideous Rosewill keyboard.

But isn't that Adesso keyboard cheaper anyway?

Yes, but the Adesso supposedly has questionable build quality.

Also, less hideous!?!? I think the BlackWidow looks great. Will complement my eXactMat and DeathAdder perfectly.

Can't justify $50 for backlighting though, considering any respectable gamer can touch type. Was thinking of buying blank keycaps for my Unicomp myself.

ch_123 · « **Reply #98 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 18:13:18 »

Quote from: Arc'xer;214706

Blues can work for gaming though the action is noticeably delayed if your used to other switches like brown or linear. But they work, the biggest problem is the noise is unnerving for gaming in a need quiet to listen to enemies around or music. For typing it's fine and enjoyable but that individualistic click, click, click does become annoying with the irregularity of key actions during gaming.

But I think the blues have that "Fun Factor". Although it does make it like "Oh mechanical = old = noisy, double-edged saying". I still think people would prefer it as a first buy or as well let's see if it really is THAT different from a run of the mill membrane dome. So in a way the blues do put out an impression of difference.

But then that just raises a question if razer is selling the blues to build up interest. And later sell other switches and maybe go so far as to say these are superior to blues and this and that and basically resell the same boards with different switches to the same who bought the blues thinking this new switch makes them better.

Not saying it won't, blues can be annoying but seems very, VERY strange they would choose the blues. If they spent THAT many years researching then they obviously weren't looking too well into it.

Edit: It could also be that maybe razer is trying to get into a mass market sell i.e. try and reach media users and business as silly as it sounds. Because they did add a lot of macro features from reading on the keyboard. So maybe they are on an underlying "gaming", they are also marketing to other markets to expand sales with the blues. Or for those who want a flashy looking keyboard despite not gaming or anything.

As much as Ripster is going to hate it...

This.

Couldn't agree with you any more. In the sort of "professional keyboard user" circle that we have around here, switches are picked for their functionality. But when selling for Joe Soap, you need some kind of 'wow factor' that may over-ride the basic functionality that it's meant to offer.

This is why I hope Unicomp never gets a marketing department =P

ch_123 · « **Reply #99 on:** Thu, 19 August 2010, 18:44:19 »

It's a bull**** phraseology I devised in absence of any better one.

News:

Author Topic: Razer Mechanical? (Read 232420 times)