Quick! Need help deciphering job listing:

[Voixdelion]

Okay - came across this by accident while trying to find a brochure or a picture of the computer lab at my high school and actually think I might like to have this job, Having recently read an article on the unfortunately poor way that most jobs are listed, I am wondering if maybe I might be more qualified for the position than I think I am based on the description in terms of real world skill and application/tasks that would be required.  Was hoping some of you guys here might help me figure out what I'm unsure about here:
Title:
Network Administrator
Skills:
MS Windows Server/MS Exchange Server  (what does this mean as a skill?)

Description:
The Network Administrator reports to the Associate Director of Administrative Technology at an independent, urban day school serving a diverse group of young women in grades 7-12.



Areas of Responsibility:
* Manage/maintain Local Area Network including routers, hubs, and switches.
* Manage/maintain/install all servers (including e-mail, web, and database), storage area network, and other network devices. need to understand in more detail what this means, but I take it to read as "make sure nothing breaks or goes phlooey"
* Handle all network operation system changes, updates and maintenance.
* Maintain the connection to the Internet, routing, DNS, and IP configurations.
* Analyze products and make recommendations on use of new products and services.
* Ensure proper backups of all systems are completed on a regular basis.
* Create/update disaster recovery plan.
* Install latest upgrades and fixes for database software.
* Interface with vendors to maintain relationships and resolve issues.
* Provide hardware support for all campus computers.
* Maintain computers used by staff, faculty and students at School, as well as printers and other peripherals.
* Train and serve as a technical resource for employees and students as needed.
* Provide technical assistance and advice to students working in the computer labs; troubleshoot problems as they occur in the labs.
* Provide leadership and support to Technical Support Specialist.
* Implement long-range technology plan for the School in conjunction with Technology Department.
* Make annual budget recommendations to the Director of Academic and Administrative Technology.
* Perform other departmental duties as required.
* Stay current on new trends in technology including the areas of network operating systems, storage area networks, virtualization, security, and data recovery.

Required Skills:
* Outstanding customer service skills
* Microsoft Windows Server 2000/2003/2008 (including all aspects of Active Directory)
* Microsoft Exchange Server 2003/2007/2010 (again not sure what this means)
* Telecommunications & data networking (this is somewhat vague)
* Data cabling systems (know how to plug the cables in to the right thing?)
* Microsoft Windows 2000, XP, Vista
* All Microsoft Office and Adobe products-
* CISCO systems and products, including switches, firewalls, call manager, wireless, and network access control

Additional Preferred (but not required) Skills:
* Bachelor of Science degree in Information Systems, Information Technology, or Computer Science and 2-4 years of relevant experience.
* Previous experience in a school or non-profit environment.
* VMWare ESX Server ??
* Storage Area Network ??
* Mac OS 10.x


Basically, I think I can probably do most of what is required already but I just don't know that that's what its called having not taken any IT courses.  However, I have learned enough on my own that when the PC at my last job started squawking about IRQ problems with the ethernet card on startup after a moving of desks, I asked the boss what they wanted me to do: a) reassign the IRQ in the BIOS, b) try pulling the card and reseat it to see if that fixed the problem or c) call the designated tech person (who charges $200/hr) and have them fix it.    After I was told to do option c - I repeated the problem to that guy and gave HIM options a and b.  He said to try b and call him back.  After b worked, my boss said next time they would skip the $200/hr consulting part and give me a shot at it first.  

I can actually learn most applications from reading the manual and anything I don't know I can probably figure out reasonably quickly, and if they are willing to train they are unlikely to find a candidate with the ability to interface with both man and machine with equal dexterity at the same level I can.  

What do you guys think? Is this position within my reach in terms of practical ability?  I am totally comfortable mucking around in the windows registry and actually once didn't realize my internet service had been shut off because I had configured it to use the main proxy server from comcast which for some reason they could not disconnect me from  - the only reason I knew this was because my firewall kept getting dinged from what I thought was a hack attack but it was a warning message that I was not allowed to use that...

[instantkamera]

Okay - came across this by accident while trying to find a brochure or a picture of the computer lab at my high school and actually think I might like to have this job, Having recently read an article on the unfortunately poor way that most jobs are listed, I am wondering if maybe I might be more qualified for the position than I think I am based on the description in terms of real world skill and application/tasks that would be required.  Was hoping some of you guys here might help me figure out what I'm unsure about here:
Title:
Network Administrator
Skills:
MS Windows Server/MS Exchange Server  (what does this mean as a skill?)

Nothing. :biggrin:
Kidding, it generally means you have administration experience with the above. Meaning you have run/administered/fixed issues with windows server (file/print/web/AD) and exchange(mail etc).

Areas of Responsibility:
* Manage/maintain Local Area Network including routers, hubs, and switches.
* Manage/maintain/install all servers (including e-mail, web, and database), storage area network, and other network devices.
* Handle all network operation system changes, updates and maintenance.
* Maintain the connection to the Internet, routing, DNS, and IP configurations.
* Analyze products and make recommendations on use of new products and services.
* Ensure proper backups of all systems are completed on a regular basis.
* Create/update disaster recovery plan.
* Install latest upgrades and fixes for database software.
* Interface with vendors to maintain relationships and resolve issues.
* Provide hardware support for all campus computers.
* Maintain computers used by staff, faculty and students at School, as well as printers and other peripherals.
* Train and serve as a technical resource for employees and students as needed.
* Provide technical assistance and advice to students working in the computer labs; troubleshoot problems as they occur in the labs.
* Provide leadership and support to Technical Support Specialist.
* Implement long-range technology plan for the School in conjunction with Technology Department.
* Make annual budget recommendations to the Director of Academic and Administrative Technology.
* Perform other departmental duties as required.
* Stay current on new trends in technology including the areas of network operating systems, storage area networks, virtualization, security, and data recovery.

Required Skills:
* Outstanding customer service skills
* Microsoft Windows Server 2000/2003/2008 (including all aspects of Active Directory)
* Microsoft Exchange Server 2003/2007/2010
* Telecommunications & data networking
* Data cabling systems
* Microsoft Windows 2000, XP, Vista
* All Microsoft Office and Adobe products-
* CISCO systems and products, including switches, firewalls, call manager, wireless, and network access control

Additional Preferred (but not required) Skills:
* Bachelor of Science degree in Information Systems, Information Technology, or Computer Science and 2-4 years of relevant experience.
* Previous experience in a school or non-profit environment.
* VMWare ESX Server ??
* Storage Area Network ??
* Mac OS 10.x

VMware ESX is bare metal visor virtual machine software. You are familiar with VM's correct?
SAN - storage implementation - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_area_network

Basically, I think I can probably do most of what is required already but I just don't know that that's what its called having not taken any IT courses.

maybe, but judging on your response, there are probably more qualified individuals.

However, I have learned enough on my own that when the PC at my last job started squawking about IRQ problems with the ethernet card on startup after a moving of desks, I asked the boss what they wanted me to do: a) reassign the IRQ in the BIOS, b) try pulling the card and reseat it to see if that fixed the problem or c) call the designated tech person (who charges $200/hr) and have them fix it.

That does not qualify you for this job.

I can actually learn most applications from reading the manual and anything I don't know I can probably figure out reasonably quickly, and if they are willing to train they are unlikely to find a candidate with the ability to interface with both man and machine with equal dexterity at the same level I can.  What do you guys think? Is this position within my reach in terms of practical ability?

Well, start reading.

Don't take offence to anything here, I just think that if you are truly interested in working in IT, you would be reading and familiarizing yourself with all of the above.

[instantkamera]

you edited on me... specifically:

* Manage/maintain Local Area Network including routers, hubs, and switches.
* Manage/maintain/install all servers (including e-mail, web, and database), storage area network, and other network devices. need to understand in more detail what this means, but I take it to read as "make sure nothing breaks or goes phlooey"

Yes, among other things (stated, in fact). Manage users, fix issues. Install/implement new stuff. Giving valid input on new purchases etc. (which you cant do if you aren't even familiar with the old ****).

* Microsoft Windows Server 2000/2003/2008 (including all aspects of Active Directory)
* Microsoft Exchange Server 2003/2007/2010 (again not sure what this means)

Not knowing what that is is a serious hindrance to getting the job.

 

* Telecommunications & data networking (this is somewhat vague)
* Data cabling systems (know how to plug the cables in to the right thing?)

None of that is vague. It is BROAD, but not vague. Hint, it likely means more than just knowing how to plug ethernet cables in.

[Phaedrus2129]

They basically want you to be a sysadmin of a Windows-based network.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sysadmin

[instantkamera]

They basically want you to be a sysadmin of a Windows-based network.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sysadmin

In so many words, yes.

[hyperlinked]

It's a pretty broad job description... broad enough that one of the requirements should have been an aptitude to adapt and learn quickly on your own. Anyone who can do everything on their list (and do it well) is probably already spoken for though I have a friend who fits this job description well and he was out of work for a while here in Northern California.

I have to agree with Kamera. If you need to ask about the stuff at the top of the sections, it might not be the right fit. The top few lines of their responsibilities and skills required areas are probably some of the only areas of that description that they felt confident about asking for. The rest of the listing are the bonus skills they hope to score too based on what's come in handy for them before in the past.

It might be one of those things that you could get an audience for if you can satisfy their main requirements and you know someone who can vouch for your ability to be a quick study, but it could be a crappy job if people with certifications and a Microsoft pedigree are steering clear of it.

[kriminal]

i agree with instantkamera, if you don't know about creating an active directory, exchange server{used for email}, and using vmware{virtual networks etc} then i don't think this job is for you...

[Voixdelion]

It's a pretty broad job description... broad enough that one of the requirements should have been an aptitude to adapt and learn quickly on your own. Anyone who can do everything on their list (and do it well) is probably already spoken for though I have a friend who fits this job description well and he was out of work for a while here in Northern California.

It might be one of those things that you could get an audience for if you can satisfy their main requirements and you know someone who can vouch for your ability to be a quick study, but it could be a crappy job if people with certifications and a Microsoft pedigree are steering clear of it.

I think people with certs and pedigree are going to be much too high priced for what I think they are seeking (coming from someone who - even though it was 20 years ago- actually attended the school and from what I knew of the way it was configured then.  It is a very small school of only about 500 students 7-12 total. And it seems like this position is not the main tech head, but the next step down from that.)   I read an article discussing the problem with many IT positions in terms of job postings is that the people writing the description aren't IT people enough to give an accurate description which ends up either being too menail a position for someone with the listed qualifications or that they've listed skills that no one is likely to have all at once.  I am particularly thinking that this may be of the former variety because of what I know of the school and this phrase: "reports to the Associate Director of Administrative Technology."

What's interesting is that according to the link phaedrus provided, I think that I would be well suited to the task.  I think all I lack is the proper vocabulary to describe tasks that I already am familiar with.  I don't run my machine on a network simply because I don't have to, but I am familiar with how they interact  on a network and how to configure one.  I suppose you might liken it to someone who can sit at a piano and play a song they know by ear but who doesn't know how to read sheet music because they haven't been taught.   I'd just love to get a look at what the daily activities would really entail in a hands on sense because it sounds like they are also willing to provide some training. I'm not entirely ignorant to scripting or coding either if necessary, either  

I have yet to run up on a problem that I haven't been able to solve myself in any office full of machines and I've been working with databases since 1988 and appleworks.  Basically I guess what I need to know is if this is a job for a programmer or an administrator/manager as far as tech knowledge.  What exactly does "Data Cabling Systems" mean?  

Drat.  I wish I'd just been able to get him to walk me through it instead of telling me to email a resume.  Even if I was certified and sure I could do this standing on my head my resume would only reflect a series of temp jobs and 8 years dancing naked on stage with a pole...

[Voixdelion]

It's a pretty broad job description... broad enough that one of the requirements should have been an aptitude to adapt and learn quickly on your own. Anyone who can do everything on their list (and do it well) is probably already spoken for though I have a friend who fits this job description well and he was out of work for a while here in Northern California.

It might be one of those things that you could get an audience for if you can satisfy their main requirements and you know someone who can vouch for your ability to be a quick study, but it could be a crappy job if people with certifications and a Microsoft pedigree are steering clear of it.

I think people with certs and pedigree are going to be much too high priced for what I think they are seeking (coming from someone who - even though it was 20 years ago- actually attended the school and from what I knew of the way it was configured then.  It is a very small school of only about 500 students 7-12 total. And it seems like this position is not the main tech head, but the next step down from that.)   I read an article discussing the problem with many IT positions in terms of job postings is that the people writing the description aren't IT people enough to give an accurate description which ends up either being too menail a position for someone with the listed qualifications or that they've listed skills that no one is likely to have all at once.  I am particularly thinking that this may be of the former variety because of what I know of the school and this phrase: "reports to the Associate Director of Administrative Technology."

What's interesting is that according to the link phaedrus provided, I think that I would be well suited to the task.  I think all I lack is the proper vocabulary to describe tasks that I already am familiar with.  I don't run my machine on a network simply because I don't have to, but I am familiar with how they interact  on a network and how to configure one.  I suppose you might liken it to someone who can sit at a piano and play a song they know by ear but who doesn't know how to read sheet music because they haven't been taught.   I'd just love to get a look at what the daily activities would really entail in a hands on sense because it sounds like they are also willing to provide some training. I'm not entirely ignorant to scripting or coding either if necessary, either  

I have yet to run up on a problem that I haven't been able to solve myself in any office full of machines and I've been working with databases since 1988 and appleworks.  Basically I guess what I need to know is if this is a job for a programmer or an administrator/manager as far as tech knowledge.  What exactly does "Data Cabling Systems" mean?  

Drat.  I wish I'd just been able to get him to walk me through it instead of telling me to email a resume.  Even if I was certified and sure I could do this standing on my head my resume would only reflect a series of temp jobs and 8 years dancing naked on stage with a pole...

[Voixdelion]

i could fix that.

Seriously.

[instantkamera]

What's interesting is that according to the link phaedrus provided, I think that I would be well suited to the task.  I think all I lack is the proper vocabulary to describe tasks that I already am familiar with.

That link provided a broad overview of a TONNE of different tasks. I agree that you DO lack the vocabulary, which is generally a sign that you aren't prepared for the job.

  I don't run my machine on a network

Well, since you posted this on the Internet ...

but I am familiar with how they interact  on a network and how to configure one.

Are you? We are not just talking about "this is an IP" and "here's where you plug in the ethernet cable" (ok, maybe THEY are - but assuming you know becuase you have no idea how much you really DON'T know is not the best way to go about learning more things.)

I suppose you might liken it to someone who can sit at a piano and play a song they know by ear but who doesn't know how to read sheet music because they haven't been taught.  

I don't buy that. There is no such thing in IT (sysadmin wise, not talking about programming theory, but the practical administration of various systems). Training and relevant experience is everything.
I WILL agree that papers (degrees, diplomas, certs) don't necessarily mean ****. But there is no way to know many of these things without studying them first. The only way one fixes issues, configures things properly, and generally keeps things going good is by having experience with the technology and being familiar with both "they way things work" and "the idiosyncrasies that make it not work the way I KNOW it should". This knowledge is imparted via training and experience.

I'd just love to get a look at what the daily activities would really entail in a hands on sense because it sounds like they are also willing to provide some training.  

Then buys some books, get on the net, and volunteer some time to help a real sysadmin do his job.

I have yet to run up on a problem that I haven't been able to solve myself in any office full of machines

An intelligent person such as yourself should know better. Trust me, there are tonnes of problems you can't fix (as there are problems I can't fix). You will see many crop up when/if you become a proper sysadmin.

and I've been working with databases since 1988 and appleworks.

db's don't really seem to be a high priority on their list, but if they were, it would be knowledge that is likely out of your current skill-set (complex SQL query planning and execution, engine configuration and optimisation, etc)

 Basically I guess what I need to know is if this is a job for a programmer or an administrator/manager as far as tech knowledge.  What exactly does "Data Cabling Systems" mean?

See, to me this isn't even an issue of vocabulary, anyone who can't distinguish between a "programming job" and a "sysadmin job" or can't look at this job posting and see that it has nothing to do with "programming" is likely not suited for the job.

(Yes, sysadmins can script/program too, but the two jobs are not the same, by a long-shot)

[ch_123]

Networking is nasty. The odds are that if you knew enough about it to be a sys admin, you wouldn't be asking us =P

[instantkamera]

Well, I'd go for it.  I agree that this is a canned Job Description.  This was the big tipoff for me.


Bwahahahaha!

While I agree that the job posting is not THAT focused, I can tell you that the requirement for "excellent customer service" (read: Can conduct themselves according to the general rules of society - i.e. the opposite of MW and EIBM) is relevant.

You can find the same requirement on my job description, which is no where near as bloated/hopeful as the one posted.

[instantkamera]

Networking is nasty. The odds are that if you knew enough about it to be a sys admin, you wouldn't be asking us =P

Exactly. Let's put it this way:

If I had the paycheque of every "network admin" that I have talked to in the course of my job, who had no clue what he was talking about BUT insisted he did (and forced me to do tonnes of extra work [tcpdump anyone?] to prove him wrong)  ... you get the picture.

[hyperlinked]

What's interesting is that according to the link phaedrus provided, I think that I would be well suited to the task.

As someone who's a self taught programmer and Web designer, I'd say that a few years ago I used to fall into the same category that you're describing. This is my third career so my head was already full of jargon from my past adventures. Not being fluent in the right vocabulary was something that I was always very self conscious about and it's something that still takes a lot of effort for me. The actual doing the work part was never a problem.

So much of tech work is about learning on the fly. Stuff changes constantly and technologies are constantly being replaced by better technologies. A highly complex skill you trained a hundred hours for last year could be automated in five years. If you know the environment of the job and think that they'd be forgiving of actual credentials in favor of someone who has strong ability to wear all tech hats for them, I'd see no reason not to take a shot at landing an interview.

The sad thing is that they may have so many resume's that they'll toss out anyone who doesn't have their minimal requirements. When I left my last job during the worst years of the dot-com bust, I was in charge of hiring someone to replace me. My desk was swamped with resume's and as much as I wanted to give some upstart a chance, it was impossible to consider given that I was overwhelmed already just trying to evaluate the "fully qualified" candidates.

[Rajagra]

They want a one-man IT department. Which is a pretty nice job once you're in there and are familiar with everything, but if you go in not knowing something there's nobody to teach you or turn to for help. You'll hit the ground running trying to fight fires without an extinguisher. Up to you if that sounds like fun.

[hyperlinked]

If they want a formal "network engineer" along the lines of what kamera's describing it's not going to work out. If they want that one man IT department that Ray's suggested, it might be something you could figure out if you could talk your way in.

I think the bottom line is that there's no telling what this job really is. Accurate job descriptions are always hard to write. They're even harder for positions that are constantly evolving.

[Voixdelion]

That link provided a broad overview of a TONNE of different tasks. I agree that you DO lack the vocabulary, which is generally a sign that you aren't prepared for the job.

Well, since you posted this on the Internet ...


Are you? We are not just talking about "this is an IP" and "here's where you plug in the ethernet cable" (ok, maybe THEY are - but assuming you know becuase you have no idea how much you really DON'T know is not the best way to go about learning more things.)

. Training and relevant experience is everything.
. But there is no way to know many of these things without studying them first. The only way one fixes issues, configures things properly, and generally keeps things going good is by having experience with the technology and being familiar with both "they way things work" and "the idiosyncrasies that make it not work the way I KNOW it should". This knowledge is imparted via training and experience.


Then buys some books, get on the net, and volunteer some time to help a real sysadmin do his job.

db's don't really seem to be a high priority on their list, but if they were, it would be knowledge that is likely out of your current skill-set (complex SQL query planning and execution, engine configuration and optimisation, et


See, to me this isn't even an issue of vocabulary, anyone who can't distinguish between a "programming job" and a "sysadmin job" or can't look at this job posting and see that it has nothing to do with "programming" is likely not suited for the job.

(Yes, sysadmins can script/program too, but the two jobs are not the same, by a long-shot)

Okay -   I have thought maybe I was misreading you previously, but perhaps not, so I'll go ahead and state that you are beginning to rub me the wrong way. There's no need to be condescending, and yes I am aware the internet is a  network, and I am aware of the various possible ways to connect to it  and how my router differs from my modem in terms of which is configuring  the ip address my machine is assigned.  I do know the difference between a programming position and a system administrator position, I was referring to both as a scale of technicality from one to the other. And please don't presume to know anything about my skill set in terms of database planning and optimization as I have given no indication of how familiar I might be with that aspect other than the bit of software that was my initial introduction to same 20 years ago.  I am not assuming I know anything.  I am guessing though, that I might  know more than I think I do given the article I read about the way such  jobs are often posted. I can't describe what I know because I don't  really know the  terminolgy to describe what I know either.   I never claimed to be able  to solve all problems only that I had not come up against one yet whose  solution eluded me in a normal office network.  


Having stated that, then perhaps I should clarify for the benefit of what I am trying to discern here:

I AM wondering what in terms of actual examples of task/problem/situation someone with this position would be expected to deal with.  I never asked to be evaluated on the qualifications I might have, as I haven't presented those in summary here.  If ripsters pic WAS actually representative of what that concept expresses in terms of what I would be dealing with, that is what I am trying to grasp.

i know if presented with a specific problem whether I have the resources to solve it or not.  I suppose what I ought to have asked is what specific problems would be exemplary of what they have asked for.  That way I would be able to judge whether to present myself as someone interested and fully capable (only a very slight possibility of this) or someone interested and perhaps willing to do some additional (funded) or on the job  training or interning that wouldn't be impossible to grasp in a short time enough that i could be useful  and at a bargain price by comparison to one who is already fully qualified (which is what I suspect) or whether I would be hopelessly asea without two years of dedicated computer science classes (possible, but I think less likely than what I would have originally thought before reading that particular article i mentioned.)

[Voixdelion]

Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by instantkamera                                    
                 You can find the same requirement  on my job description, which is no where near as bloated/hopeful as the  one posted.
                                 
And here is my point, if the job posting is bloatedly hopeful,  then perhaps I am someone they could practically use, if not someone who  fits the bill they have posted.        
                                                                                   

You'll hit the ground running trying to fight  fires without an extinguisher. Up to you if that sounds like  fun.

Oh I excel at that.  One of my fortes in general...

. My desk was swamped with resume's and as much as I wanted to give some upstart a chance, it was impossible to consider given that I was overwhelmed already just trying to evaluate the "fully qualified" candidates.

Given how harried the guy sounded on the phone I get the distinct feeling this is the case.  I was hoping though that my status as an alum would serve as a foot in the door though.  Or rather a donating alum.  It's a pretty small community and the current headmistress actually started there when I was in upper-school so she knows me personally, especially after our reunion at the...well, at the reunion.  Might be worth something.  

You know what, I think I'll send a personal letter in lieu of a resume.  I'll explain what I can bring to the table and let the HR guy sort out whether it might be worthwhile to meet.  I wasn't actively looking for a position, I just had a feeling when I saw the listing by accident so there's no pressure really on my part anyway.  I do like the idea of working there at the school though, since it is one of the best things that could have happened to me both for education and personal development.  I liken it to Wonder Woman's Paradise Island a bit in its ideals.  There was actually a 7th grader who was expelled for taking a sandwich baggie full of tootise rolls taped to someone else's locker my first year there.  They take their honor code very seriously.

[Voixdelion]

You can find the same requirement on my job description, which is no where near as bloated/hopeful as the one posted.

And here is my point, if the job posting is bloatedly hopeful, then perhaps I am someone they could practically use, if not someone who fits the bill they have posted.

[instantkamera]

Okay -   I have thought maybe I was misreading you previously, but perhaps not, so I'll go ahead and state that you are beginning to rub me the wrong way.

I told you not to take offence for a reason. If you think my intent is to belittle you, well, I am sorry but I wouldn't waste my time breaking down your post to respond to as many points as possible if that were the case. I would just call you stupid ... or something.

There's no need to be condescending,

I wasn't. I WAS being humorous (about the internet thing).

 

and yes I am aware the internet is a  network, and I am aware of the various possible ways to connect to it  and how my router differs from my modem in terms of which is configuring  the ip address my machine is assigned.

excellent.

 

I do know the difference between a programming position and a system administrator position, I was referring to both as a scale of technicality from one to the other.

My apologies, I honestly read " Basically I guess what I need to know is if this is a job for a programmer" to mean you were not that familiar with the separation of programming and systems administration.


 

And please don't presume to know anything about my skill set in terms of database planning and optimization as I have given no indication of how familiar I might be with that aspect other than the bit of software that was my initial introduction to same 20 years ago.
 I am not assuming I know anything.  

Fair enough, but keep in mind that there ARE signals that HINT at your lack of expertise and knowledge in certain areas. If I (or anyone else) has misread those, apologies.

 

I am guessing though, that I might  know more than I think I do given the article I read about the way such  jobs are often posted.

Again, that is usually NOT the case, but certainly that could be. I am VERY curious to read this article though. This job ad is actually fairly common with the "skills grab" (the hope is the more they put, the more they'll get), but it's not difficult to boil it down to a general jack of all trades windows sys/network admin.
 

I can't describe what I know because I don't  really know the  terminolgy to describe what I know either.   I never claimed to be able  to solve all problems only that I had not come up against one yet whose  solution eluded me in a normal office network.  

My suggestion still stands, for this job get a windows server book and maybe a basic networking book and make SURE that you not only know the info (not saying you do or don't) but also the terminology.

 

Having stated that, then perhaps I should clarify for the benefit of what I am trying to discern here:

I AM wondering what in terms of actual examples of task/problem/situation someone with this position would be expected to deal with.  

- definitely the front end **** you are already comfortable with: PC troubleshooting etc

- probably FAIRLY basic internetworking. setting up PCs on the network, printers, phones (IP or POTS, PBX MAYBE) etc. Configuring routers/switches, designing and maintaining network topology, installing/moving drops (this is the data cabling ****. It's not just plugging **** in but also wiring BIX boxes, patch panels and crimping your own cables).

- "back end" windows administration. User/resource management in an AD, exchange configuration and management. adding new **** as need comes up and getting it all working with the old crap.

- maybe other odds and ends. Setting up and maintaining a web server (likely IIS - so nothing too crazy). Hardware (server, RAID/SAN) knowledge. Replace broken **** and spec new hardware for whatever tasks the machine will be doing.

If ripsters pic WAS actually representative of what that concept expresses in terms of what I would be dealing with, that is what I am trying to grasp.

It's not, he was being silly (I hope, for your sake).

i know if presented with a specific problem whether I have the resources to solve it or not.  I suppose what I ought to have asked is what specific problems would be exemplary of what they have asked for.  That way I would be able to judge whether to present myself as someone interested and fully capable (only a very slight possibility of this) or someone interested and perhaps willing to do some additional (funded) or on the job  training or interning that wouldn't be impossible to grasp in a short time enough that i could be useful  and at a bargain price by comparison to one who is already fully qualified (which is what I suspect) or whether I would be hopelessly asea without two years of dedicated computer science classes (possible, but I think less likely than what I would have originally thought before reading that particular article i mentioned.)

I still suggest, if you aren't able to answer these questions on your own yet, that you look for some way of getting in (volunteer, read a lot, take a short and cheap course). The reason is that there ARE a tonne of fairly qualified people who have done their time and are really ready for work, and the job market IS tight. But on the other hand, it is the prospective employers job to worry about that and pick the BEST candidate, so I guess you could just apply and see what happens. Just a word to the wise though, I DO interviews for my job. I don't know how these other employers handle interviews, but we cover each specific requirement with a real world exercise, it's fairly high pressure and it becomes evident fairly quick who is and isn't up to the task. This is actually where I get some of the sensitivity to "programmer vs. sysadmin", I get ACTUAL programmers in my line of work who think because they can program, they can do all other manner of technical job.

and to hyperlinked ... I wasn't referring to a proper "network admin", hence the quotes. This presents another challenge though, being able to keep up with the other technical entities you may have to deal with.

Bottom line, I just personally feel that someone who is qualified for that job knows it, and anyone who isn't sure, probably isn't qualified. I am quite possibly wrong, or over-simplifying matters.

good luck either way.

[Voixdelion]

I told you not to take offence for a reason. If you think my intent is to belittle you, ...

Bottom line, I just personally feel that someone who is qualified for that job knows it, and anyone who isn't sure, probably isn't qualified. I am quite possibly wrong, or over-simplifying matters.

good luck either way.

Thanks.  I appreciate that.  It wasn't that I suspected your intent so much as felt it in tone btw, and without the smilies it can be difficult to tell sarcasm from satire.  And I will see if I can drum up that article again, as it WAS both interesting and enlightening.  I had actually started looking at IT job postings first to get an idea of whether I should/could go back to school for some kind of tech job because of my natural affinity for it, and got so frustrated because it seemed impossible given what most listings were asking for I felt I couldn't possibly catch up at this point in my life.  That article actually made me reconsider that and the commentary from those in the IT profession in response also seemed to appreciate the articles veracity.  But I will say that this one is more within my reach than any other listing I have previously encountered even as it stands and the fact that I happened upon it seems serendipitous to a purpose, so I can't let it go by without making the effort.  I was just trying to get an idea of how far off the mark I might be, since I knew already I wasn't dead on.  

Interestingly enough, I can deal with the cable crimping well enough too, I was actually one of the top candidates in line for the electrical workers union (hehheh - I guess that puts a new spin on me being a stripper...) but they took sooo long to call us up that by the time they did I wasn't available any longer.  I actually do quite a bit of that kind of stuff around my own house... And as far as databases its probably the one thing that I have had some measurable experience with throughout the years, which is why I bristled a little there, sorry.  Actually then I'm not entirely discouraged from applying for this after all is said and done.  I am very familiar with the environment, after all, so it pretty much comes down to being able to discuss duties with the hiring person anyway.   My resume (what resume?) alone stands no chance of making into the the interview pile though, so screw it.  I'll just have to make the letter be my interview via e-proxy.  Well see what happens.

[ch_123]

Not being fluent in the right vocabulary was something that I was always very self conscious about and it's something that still takes a lot of effort for me.

Been there myself. I get freaked out when I hear people talking about various programming language jargon, even though it refers to concepts that I understand...

There's no need to be condescending, and yes I am aware the internet is a network, and I am aware of the various possible ways to connect to it and how my router differs from my modem in terms of which is configuring the ip address my machine is assigned.

Trust me, even if you have plenty of experience with home networking, it's barely a scratch on the surface of the sort of stuff you will encounter on 'big' networks. I'm not saying that it is somehow beyond your capability, just that it's something you really should read in to to familiarize yourself with some of the issues.

[hyperlinked]

Been there myself. I get freaked out when I hear people talking about various programming language jargon, even though it refers to concepts that I understand...

I think for me it comes from that I work solo most of the time so the people I'm in contact with are all these code dieties that speak in perfectly fluid full sentences about programming syntax. A while back, I hired a guy to help me with a project once and he had a lot more formal CS education than I did and he kept stumbling over the same terminology.

It made me think that maybe I shouldn't make such a huge deal out of it. After all, nobody's going to question my English compositions if I can't immediately tell them what an adverb or a preposition is. I do value being able to explain code properly and whenever I have time, I go back to study and re-study the basics, but so far it's more for my own ego rather than for any practical purpose.

It also makes sense to remember once in a while how encapsulated the vocabularies of different tech disciplines can be. Even if you get to the point in which you have the lingo nailed down perfectly, it probably just means a small cross section of the tech world will be able to understand you perfectly.

In the healthcare world, where I came out of, there's also a lot of proprietary jargon and acronymns unique to every discipline. The difference in healthcare is that most people have to collaborate with many people of other disciplines on a regular basis every single day. For certain kinds of medical charts, they request that you use the most plain language possible so that everyone can understand your notes from a surgeon to a social worker.

[mike]

Trust me, even if you have plenty of experience with home networking, it's barely a scratch on the surface of the sort of stuff you will encounter on 'big' networks. I'm not saying that it is somehow beyond your capability, just that it's something you really should read in to to familiarize yourself with some of the issues.

Although I doubt that this school qualifies as a big network

It's quite probable that they aren't expecting someone with all the experience on the list; sometimes what somebody wants gets turned into a list of requirements by the HR department. If you know some of what's on the list, and familiarise yourself with the rest to at least the point where you know the terms you could be in with a chance. But don't be afraid to say "I don't know" ... I'd rather not see someone try to bull**** through questions they don't know the answer to because one of the most important skills of a sysadmin is to know when they're out of their depth and to stop. Back in the day when I used to help interview sysadmins, my technical questions were deliberately set to get people to say "I don't know".

But you may want to get yourself an ESX server and tinker with Windows Server 2008. ESX is available for free without the multi-server management console and various features that you won't need anyway; not sure where to get 2008 for cheap (my licenses come through work). The server itself needn't be hugely expensive - ignore stuff you find online about it requiring SCSI disks ... mine works quite merrily with SATA.

If you baulk at that, bear in mind that you may well be competing against people who run networks at home for fun ... yes us sysadmins are weird (I used to run an FDDI ring at home).

As to examples of what you might actually be doing in this job, it's kind of hard to say really but ...

• Install, configure, and maintain servers. Including patching without downtime
• Staying at work over the weekend to fix that broken server and thus missing an important family reunion.
• Change passwords for those who have forgotten it ... a lot.
• Create and delete user accounts. Maintain user rights - stop people doing things they shouldn't whilst letting them do whatever they want to.
• Referee a fight between two vendors who insist the problem is the other guy's problem. Three or four-way fights are even more fun.
• Recover files from backups for users. What do you mean you want _another_ backup tape - you got one just 6 months ago.
• Fix the laser printer that someone has managed to break a toner cartridge all over. Tip: Don't use a vacuum cleaner.
• Crawl through a floor space that was last cleaned in the Victorian era to pull through a cable to connect up a port in that odd room that nobody wants to use. Once you've finished, you'll be told that they need another three connections there. And be told off for having mouse **** in your hair.
• Have a software package plonked on your desk Friday lunchtime with a note to say it must be installed on all the machines in the lab before Monday, but neglects to mention which lab.

Hmm ... I seem to have covered just the negative. It's not always that bad, but it can be pretty stressful at times. And whilst I've written those with humour, they'll all pretty much drawn from my working life.

Oh! And that old rumour that sysadmins don't have people skills ? It's wrong. You'll often moan about the users ... and that's a good thing. Providing you keen those moans in the office, it allows you to face the most sublimely ridiculous user requests with a smile.

[ch_123]

If you are looking for a server 2008 license, I might be able to hook you up with a legitimate one - we get free ones from college, and I know people who are never going to use them.

[kriminal]

• Install, configure, and maintain servers. Including patching without downtime
• Staying at work over the weekend to fix that broken server and thus missing an important family reunion.
• Change passwords for those who have forgotten it ... a lot.
• Create and delete user accounts. Maintain user rights - stop people doing things they shouldn't whilst letting them do whatever they want to.
• Referee a fight between two vendors who insist the problem is the other guy's problem. Three or four-way fights are even more fun.
• Recover files from backups for users. What do you mean you want _another_ backup tape - you got one just 6 months ago.
• Fix the laser printer that someone has managed to break a toner cartridge all over. Tip: Don't use a vacuum cleaner.
• Crawl through a floor space that was last cleaned in the Victorian era to pull through a cable to connect up a port in that odd room that nobody wants to use. Once you've finished, you'll be told that they need another three connections there. And be told off for having mouse **** in your hair.
• Have a software package plonked on your desk Friday lunchtime with a note to say it must be installed on all the machines in the lab before Monday, but neglects to mention which lab.

lol hehe i can attest to this and im not even a sysadmin :P

[hyperlinked]

lol hehe i can attest to this and im not even a sysadmin

Don't forget having to answer questions like... "Hey my nephew wants to be a digital music artist / movie director / poet laureate, what kind of computer do you think I should get him? He's real picky so I want to make sure I get him the right one... no pressure by the way."

[TexasFlood]

They really are asking a jack of all trades.  Thing is with unemployment what it is, they might find someone laid off by IBM, HP, EDS, etc, who can come close to fitting the bill.

That that job description includes a lot of what goes on in a larger operation.  If it's the one I suspect then it's around ~65 faculty and 525 students.   If they're willing to support some training, even on the job, it would be great experience.  I've been in that sort of role and it's great background to have as in a larger organization you almost certainly will be pigeon-holed to a much narrower role.

The job description doesn't read that way though.  Reads to me like they expect you to be ready to go supporting a lot of different areas:
Exchange, web, database, Cisco routing, DNS, active directory, some unidentified backup software and unidentified SAN, VMWare ESX, Mac OS 10.x.  The database isn't identified so hard to say if it's SQL or something like Access or JET.  They also want you to come up with a technology plan including DR and the associated budget.

Can't hurt to try but there is a lot here and if you don't have experience with a good chunk of it already it might be tough.  I'm a big proponent of the importance of being able to spin up and learn new things.  You just have to gut check yourself on how much of this you have to spin up on and if it's realistic to do so on the job.  Of course the job description reads a bit like it was written by a manager and/or HR guy, ambitious and somewhat boiler plate-ish.  Can't hurt to get a reality check by calling them up and talking to them.

[TexasFlood]

Okay - came across this by accident while trying to find a brochure or a picture of the computer lab at my high school and actually think I might like to have this job, Having recently read an article on the unfortunately poor way that most jobs are listed, I am wondering if maybe I might be more qualified for the position than I think I am based on the description in terms of real world skill and application/tasks that would be required.  Was hoping some of you guys here might help me figure out what I'm unsure about here:
Title:
Network Administrator
...
Basically, I think I can probably do most of what is required already but I just don't know that that's what its called having not taken any IT courses.  However, I have learned enough on my own that when the PC at my last job started squawking about IRQ problems with the ethernet card on startup after a moving of desks, I asked the boss what they wanted me to do: a) reassign the IRQ in the BIOS, b) try pulling the card and reseat it to see if that fixed the problem or c) call the designated tech person (who charges $200/hr) and have them fix it.    After I was told to do option c - I repeated the problem to that guy and gave HIM options a and b.  He said to try b and call him back.  After b worked, my boss said next time they would skip the $200/hr consulting part and give me a shot at it first.  

I can actually learn most applications from reading the manual and anything I don't know I can probably figure out reasonably quickly, and if they are willing to train they are unlikely to find a candidate with the ability to interface with both man and machine with equal dexterity at the same level I can.  

What do you guys think? Is this position within my reach in terms of practical ability?

Some specific answers to add to my previous post.

The Network Administrator reports to the Associate Director of Administrative Technology at an independent, urban day school serving a diverse group of young women in grades 7-12.

Areas of Responsibility:
* Manage/maintain Local Area Network including routers, hubs, and switches.
- adjust Cisco routing tables, occasionally upgrade firmware, install / move around switches, hubs? shouldn't run into many of those any more.
* Manage/maintain/install all servers (including e-mail, web, and database), storage area network, and other network devices.
- This seems to refer to the main central services servers. Hard to comment on the SAN without some clue as to what vendor/tier.
* Handle all network operation system changes, updates and maintenance.
- Upgrade network equipment, execute routing changes, firewall changes if they have one, fix it when it breaks, generally get yelled at for vague performance issues.
* Maintain the connection to the Internet, routing, DNS, and IP configurations.
- hard to judge what exactly this means without more information, could be anything from cable, DSL, T1, etc.  I would assume all routing to be internal to their network but DNS/IP could also refer to public space.
* Analyze products and make recommendations on use of new products and services.
- Do some fun research, recommend some great products, get denied funds and buy a bit of crap to make things a bit better if you're lucky.
* Ensure proper backups of all systems are completed on a regular basis.
- How difficult this is depends on what backup system they have.  It's something nobody cares about, until they do then the sky is falling.
* Create/update disaster recovery plan.
- This can mean a lot of things.  Minimum rotate tapes into a fireproof safe, preferably off-site, all the way up to a fully synchronous geographically dispersed hot site.
* Install latest upgrades and fixes for database software.
- keep patches up to date, periodically get chewed out for not having the latest security patch installed immediately, which applies to all Micro$oft products.
* Interface with vendors to maintain relationships and resolve issues.
- Hold vendors feet to the fire to fix issues with their products, enough to keep them honest, not so much that they quit answering your calls.
* Provide hardware support for all campus computers.
- You're screwed.  Support every random issue on every desktop.
* Maintain computers used by staff, faculty and students at School, as well as printers and other peripherals.
- You're screwed again.
* Train and serve as a technical resource for employees and students as needed.
- You're thrice screwed.
* Provide technical assistance and advice to students working in the computer labs; troubleshoot problems as they occur in the labs.
- What can I say, yet again.
* Provide leadership and support to Technical Support Specialist.
- You have a slave?
* Implement long-range technology plan for the School in conjunction with Technology Department.
- Dust off your crystal ball, predict the future.
* Make annual budget recommendations to the Director of Academic and Administrative Technology.
- Come up with costs to support what they have, recommend new cool stuff, but be aware that if will probably only get funded if you can show some ROI and cut costs over some reasonable period of time.
* Perform other departmental duties as required.
- That's right, the screwing continues, carry boxes, sort files, at their whim.
* Stay current on new trends in technology including the areas of network operating systems, storage area networks, virtualization, security, and data recovery.
- Read trade publications, you'll need this for that technology plan above.
Required Skills:
* Outstanding customer service skills
- You piss off too many people, you're expendable.
* Microsoft Windows Server 2000/2003/2008 (including all aspects of Active Directory)
- Install, configure, maintain, fix issues, patch all windows server versions from the last decade. As has been said, file/print, Web, Active Directory, DNS.  Unclear if you would have to build of any of this infrastructure except servers, or just maintain it, adding / removing entries, troubleshooting.
* Microsoft Exchange Server 2003/2007/2010
- Minimum adding/removing email users and troubleshooting, but could be a lot more.
* Telecommunications & data networking
- Uhh, so at least copper Ethernet cabling, maybe some fibre runs between switches, telecomm? plug in phones? dunno.
* Data cabling systems
- Plug in Ethernet into desktops?
* Microsoft Windows 2000, XP, Vista
- All those desktops you have to support.
* All Microsoft Office and Adobe products
- Install & troublshoot any Microsloth or Adobe product under the sun.
* CISCO systems and products, including switches, firewalls, call manager, wireless, and network access control.
- So know your Cisco routing, IOS commands, PIX firewalls, call manager telephony, wireless, and NAC products.

Additional Preferred (but not required) Skills:
* Bachelor of Science degree in Information Systems, Information Technology, or Computer Science and 2-4 years of relevant experience.
* Previous experience in a school or non-profit environment.
* VMWare ESX Server
- I wonder why vmware is preferred but not required? Does that mean they aren't using it yet. Hmm.  If they already had it, I would think this would be important, and also be potentially a key part of a DR plan.  If they don't have it, it would be a great thing for the technology plan.
* Storage Area Network
- Listed above as a required skill already I think, odd.
* Mac OS 10.x
- So some faculty member high enough up the food chain to get away with it won't give up his/her Mac.

[Voixdelion]

heheh - I can see we are a wee bit cynical Texas  but that is very helpful thank you.  

Though I'll have to say given the environment I wouldn't expect much chewing out.  This place was one of the very best things that happened to me in my life, and the only unfortunate thing about it was that it didn't prepare me for the ultimate stupidity that I would encounter in the real world.  I remember in my junior year we had a new instructor for Chemistry who appeared to be something of a yo-yo.  I had told my mother so, but since she is a teacher, she tended to side with him until Parent's night after which she agreed the man was an idiot.  What was truly incredible: 2 days later we had a shiny NEW Chem instructor who was much better.  That fast.  Apparently my mother and I were not the only ones who held a poor opinion of the first guy, but still I was flabbergasted how seriously that opinion was taken and how quickly the situation was remedied with no muss or fuss.  If they waited for the parental opinion to come in that means that they had fired the old guy and hired a new instructor as well as oriented them enough to start teaching immediately in less than 24 hours if they started the morning after the parents met with the old instructor.  That simply doesn't happen at any school I am aware of, even the other high priced private schools that many of my grade school friends attended.  I also remember the policy that if there were a minimum of 4 students (or maybe it was 5) that were interested in taking a subject that was not currently offered, that the school would create and provide that subject at those students behest.  The computer lab in '88 was mostly comprised of orange screened Ibm machines but they did keep two green Apples (IIe, I think) also for the students like me who had that type of machine (ours was IIc) at home.  This was when apple's market share was maybe, what, 3% or something?   The school doesn't **** around.   If I can't cut the mustard, its a non-issue of getting yelled at, I wouldn't be hired in the first place, or kept if I had.  Period.  

Plus I don't think they believe in yelling there.  We didn't even get yelled at when out senior prank involved hiring a male stripper (the guy from one of the old C&R commercials) to come to the assembly period and congratulate the Upper school head on her promotion to Headmistress.   She did sternly remind us that there were some younger students present and it would have been inappropriate to let him perform, but I think she had a hard time doing it with a straight face.  She is still the current head of school now.

[TexasFlood]

heheh - I can see we are a wee bit cynical Texas  but that is very helpful thank you.

Guilty.  Of course I'm jaded by years of larger organizations where cost cutting always seems paramount with often adversarial customer <> vendor relationships.  I was trying to be a bit humorous as well although perhaps it didn't shine through, :wink:.  One needs a sense of humor in I/T, especially in larger companies.  Smaller shops hopefully won't be so bad in that respect.  Good luck.

[mike]

Plus I don't think they believe in yelling there.

You may well be right, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between how the customers are treated, and how the slaves (that's anyone not on teaching staff) is treated behind the scenes.

[TexasFlood]

* Data cabling systems
- Plug in Ethernet into desktops?

Actually, this could refer to structured cabling / cable management, so your racks look like:



not



DOH! Ripster already beat me to it!, with a funnier picture to.  Funnier to me because I've seen real examples like that in the last few months, including the signs not to touch anything.  In my real life example there was also a ramshackle bunch of old repurposed obsolete desktops, unlabelled, performing God only knows what critical task.  I didn't want to know!  LALALALALA!

[Voixdelion]

You may well be right, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between how the customers are treated, and how the slaves (that's anyone not on teaching staff) is treated behind the scenes.

Actually I was friendly with much of the staff while I was there (particularly the kitchen and security as I spent much time at school after hours) and I never got that feeling that they were treated in anyway with less respect than the whole of the community.  I think they expect excellence from everyone in terms of whatever role they play there, though.

[Rajagra]

Actually, this could refer to structured cabling / cable management, so your racks look like:

Be warned. The worst cabling looks tidy, but only because someone has bundled all the excess wiring out of sight and cable tied it all together. Over time more wiring gets added/tied together. When the time comes to fix a fault you are totally shafted because you would have to untie and pull out all that live cabling to even start to trace anything, and the odds are you will bring other systems down in the process.

Here's a clue for cabling wannabes. Cable management arms are for cable management. The inaccessible voids at the sides of the cabinets are not.

[TexasFlood]

Be warned. The worst cabling looks tidy, but only because someone has bundled all the excess wiring out of sight and cable tied it all together. Over time more wiring gets added/tied together. When the time comes to fix a fault you are totally shafted because you would have to untie and pull out all that live cabling to even start to trace anything, and the odds are you will bring other systems down in the process.

I have seen this happen.

Here's a clue for cabling wannabes. Cable management arms are for cable management. The inaccessible voids at the sides of the cabinets are not.

Or cable management panels and/or troughs like the below for cleanly routing cables between racks & rows.  And actually I've seen structured cabling run up those rack voids, which should be fine since it should be in tight bundles with no need to ever touch it.

[D-EJ915]

Without going into a needlessly long post like they did above it sounds like they want someone with an MCSA or MCSE.  Cisco means CCNA but considering how low-end the rest of the description is I don't think it'd be a requirement but definitely would help and cabling, etc. means know how to run cables - this is fairly easy.  Managing SANs is easy but can sound scary for someone who has no idea what they are - specifically they sound like they have an existing infrastructure for it which basically means you check out its peformance, reliability and redundancy, etc. every once in a while and can swap bad drives for new ones.

Also in corporate environments (at least in my experience) you end up fixing their email they broke 85% of the time.

[Parak]

It's not all doom and gloom in IT. At some point one can even graduate to not having to deal with end users and/or customers anymore. If you actually enjoy the technologies involved, that's when working might even become fun, instead of frustratingly mundane