Bought a Model M from 1985

[Oqsy]

Tank what deal?
What's Walter talking about, Dude?
What's wrong with that duck, Walter?

[Oqsy]

ripster: I have a man-crush on you in a totally hetero way...  Your use of Lebowski-isms endears you to me so very much.  Once again, totally in a straight way, but yeah, mad crushin' on you, bro.

[kishy]

Edit: post numbers no longer match up, because webwit's account and posts have been deleted and I have removed ones of my own that are no longer relevant because of that.

After some calming time and review of forum posts, PMs and my own memory, there's something that I need to say regarding what happened earlier in the thread.

In reply #32 I had originally been attempting to communicate two indepedent points, not related to each other whatsoever. Those two points were:

• I do not believe KillerBee should sell the keyboard.
• I do not believe that members who have stated that they dislike the operating procedure for a website and left on the basis of that should be using the website in question for personal benefit.

However, because the two points were combined in one post, it tends to read a little differently:

• I do not believe KillerBee should sell the keyboard to webwit because webwit is undeserving.

That was never my intent in writing the post. It was not and continues to not be my belief (well, truthfully, after the way webwit responded this is not entirely true).

All of this is completely beside the point that I was unaware of exactly "how done" the deal was at the time that I wrote the post. Had I known that webwit had already gone to considerable lengths to prepare to fulfill his end of the deal, or that any actual commitment had been made, I never would have made the remarks I did (regardless of validity, making them would be of significant disrespect to both parties and indeed interfering with a business transaction, something that I agree with webwit, should be ban-worthy).

In the end, what happened here is indeed my fault. I made remarks that, given the status of the deal, never should have been made.

As I have already done privately, I would like to publicly offer my sincere apology to webwit for disrupting this transaction and creating additional complications for him as a result. I hope that in the future we can work past this.

As I have not yet done but really ought to, I would also like to apologize to KillerBee for the same.

As has been said, I did not disrupt the deal for personal gain, or even intentionally. This stemmed from a series of relatively minor misunderstandings and became something considerably worse.

[KillerBee]

Kishy, you did me a favor by telling me "wake up and smell the keyboard"

I'll leave you the keaboard in my will

[KillerBee]

Clickykeyboards.com says:
Hi Bryan,

Thanks for contacting us.

Interesting find.. but we primarily focus on PC-compatible model M keyboards and although it is a model M from 1985, the 1386304 is not PC-compatible.

You should list item on ebay and you might get a good sale.. especially if you allow for Japanese and Korean buyers.

Best regards,
Brandon Ermita

rarekeyboard store says:
Dear bryang.tech,

It is not a POS din - it is definately regular. Besides - I gave you a PS/2 cord anyways.  As stated clearly in my ad, no returns.

Brian Oniell thinks that I bought the keyboard from him and he is defending himself for no reason! hahahahah

While Brandon shines with his wisdom

[EverythingIBM]

Clickykeyboards.com says:
Hi Bryan,

Thanks for contacting us.

Interesting find.. but we primarily focus on PC-compatible model M keyboards and although it is a model M from 1985, the 1386304 is not PC-compatible.

You should list item on ebay and you might get a good sale.. especially if you allow for Japanese and Korean buyers.

Best regards,
Brandon Ermita

rarekeyboard store says:
Dear bryang.tech,

It is not a POS din - it is definately regular. Besides - I gave you a PS/2 cord anyways.  As stated clearly in my ad, no returns.

Brian Oniell thinks that I bought the keyboard from him and he is defending himself for no reason! hahahahah

While Brandon shines with his wisdom

That's funny. Poor Brian. He's had a long day with grumpy buyers: "I thought PS/2 meant it was for playstation 2" and all that nonsense.

Well, you should have told brandon there's a USB converter in development to run all terminal keyboards natively.

[Oqsy]

Wow, I know where I'm spending my money.

[KillerBee]

clickykeyboards.com says

Hi Bryan,

A simple 1390120 controller swap into the 1386304 might work.

As to if it will increase or decrease the value, it would depend on the buyer.

We try to be very conservative in selecting and preparing keyboards for sale on clickykeyboards.com.   We have heard of other sellers who have other priorities and they have taken the innards of a more common 1993 IBM model M 1391401 (Made by Lexmark) and then tried to put them inside of a more rare 1986 IBM model M 1390131 (Made by IBM) to "increase the value".

As the majority of our buyers are interested in authentic model M keyboards and they look to the keyboard label for important info, I would probably recommend that you try to keep the keyboard as original as possible and try to do minimal mods to the keyboard.

If you do swap the controller, I would be careful to advise prospective buyers of the mod and to document the process so as not to confuse future keyboard enthuasiats as to the 1386304.

Best regards,
Brandon Ermita

[KillerBee]

Well this post in its entirety is being typed on the IBM Model M 1386304 from 1985, using the controller from a IBM Model M 1390120 from 1986.


Love me or hate me the only way I can express my feelings is in spanish:

¿Se puede complacer a toda la gente? ¡Definitivamente NO! Cada quien y cada cual piensa y actúa según le venga a bien y como dice el dicho: "Entre gustos y colores, no han escrito los autores"

Esta corta historia narra la incómoda situación de un Abuelo con su nieto y un borrico... ¿Cómo complacer a la gente que se van encontrando por el camino? Al final, el Abuelo decide seguir como les convenga y dejar que la gente les critique como quiera, al fín y al cabo no pueden complacerlos y mejor es que cada quien viva y actúe según su conciencia...

[EverythingIBM]

Well that's nice.

And you can always put the original controller back in when need be.

[KillerBee]

They must have changed something between 1985 and 86

Because as I type on this post with the 85 it really feels very different when compared to a model m from 86 or 95 which are the other two that I own

I feel the click, and hear it too but it is not as clacky as a 95 or the 86 for that matter. I think the other model m's are very rattly this feels very sturdy too.

OR I COULD GO ON A WHIM... since this keyboard is so fresh and new thats why it feels like that. (which I doubt)

Anyone with a very early 86 care to chime in? mines is May 86 and it does not feel the same as the June 85 model m

its a very subdued click (if thats the right word)

I would not say muffled its more of a gentile click instead of the more acustomed clacka-clacka!

[ch_123]

Model Ms in good condition are comparatively quiet, but given some wear and tear and broken rivets, the backplate comes slightly loose from the upper half, and there's more reverberation.

Model Ms made from 1985 to about 1988 are basically the same thing.

[KillerBee]

Pics of the 1985 with the family

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=220229#post220229

[EverythingIBM]

They must have changed something between 1985 and 86

Because as I type on this post with the 85 it really feels very different when compared to a model m from 86 or 95 which are the other two that I own

I feel the click, and hear it too but it is not as clacky as a 95 or the 86 for that matter. I think the other model m's are very rattly this feels very sturdy too.

OR I COULD GO ON A WHIM... since this keyboard is so fresh and new thats why it feels like that. (which I doubt)

Anyone with a very early 86 care to chime in? mines is May 86 and it does not feel the same as the June 85 model m

its a very subdued click (if thats the right word)

I would not say muffled its more of a gentile click instead of the more acustomed clacka-clacka!

Mine is an 86 April one, it's extraordinarily loud and clattery (but it is missing rivets; I know at least one). Because of that, some areas of the board sound different than others -- and each key's spring has a different "tune" to it.

[KillerBee]

what ch_123 said looks to be a correct answer because there cant be a difference when they are all exactly the same.

Maybe this thing is sooooo NEW that it clicks differently

[didjamatic]

I have quite a lot of model M's and there is a definite range in feel/sound between them... even between the same models made in the same year, same month.

I attribute it more to the environment they've come from and whether they've been crushed in storage or shipment, breaking rivets and separating/tweaking internals.  They're so durable you can't see damage on the outside, but you can feel the difference or in my case I usually hear it.  Mostly in the ping/reverb after keystrokes.

Now you need to get yourself a space saving Model M and a Model F AT.  

[KillerBee]

Now you need to get yourself a space saving Model M and a Model F AT.  

MMM... Space-Saving, I guess I can buy it for the wife for her PC... Let see what she has to say?

[Oqsy]

hm, this recurring point of the different feel to what should be pretty similar model m's brings me to a question i've not seen here before... does anyone CLEAN their model m springs, and if so, how and with what results?  I'm imagining even a "like new" board from the mid 80s would have some signs of aging, and possibly some deterioration or dust/debris on the springs.  Has anyone developed a method for cleaning the springs that won't cause further harm?

[Oqsy]

Yeah it is...  I have no idea what they're made of so it's probably a useless thought as far as rust/etc, but I can easily see stuff getting caught in the coils (dust, etc) after 20+ years(25 in this case), no matter how good the design, and perhaps even affect the mechanism, which has been proven to have very tight tolerances.  Oh well, just a thought

[KillerBee]

Ive been tinkering plenty with my M's and I have yet to see debris or dust inside the spring

[ch_123]

Those springs are well covered up, so unless something gets into them when you have the keycaps removed, they do not need to be cleaned.

[KillerBee]

Well after recieving the controller for Kishy to get my May 86 back on line I noticed that even if I type with the May 86 or the 42H1292 I like the key feel of the 1985 board I dont know if its because its more pingy and less noisy but it generally feels better than any other M that I own

[xsphat]

What happened to webwit? I was looking forward to battling him again and he hasn't posted in a long time. Was he banned? Does he have a new handle?

[ricercar]

webwit left because a vendor edited a post.

EDITED FOR FACTUAL ERROR

[iMav]

AFAIK webwit left because iMav edited a post. iMav put it back, but webwit was long gone.

Wrong.

The post in question was in a vendor forum.  The vendor edited the post (they have moderator access to their forum).

I don't edit posts.

[xsphat]

Oh well. Anyone know another place he hangs out? I'm itching for a fight.

[KillerBee]

I thought he left because I did not agree to sell him the 1985 Model M

(kidding, kidding dont hurt me webwit..... runs and hides)

[Rhaullan]

I've seen him around OCN.

[didjamatic]

It was me who edited the post when he got upset about me doing a keyboard giveaway saying I was being an attention ****.  I removed it trying to keep that thread about the fun contest then shortly afterward I restored his posts in all their glory.

I talked to him in PM and he said he had no issue with me and said not to worry that he was only taking a break.

IIRC he returned briefly and had issues with one or more geekhackers then left.

I dont know if it was me, killer bee, or the aspergers thread that caused him to leave but in my mind everything was cleared up between he and I.

[ricercar]

Wrong.

The post in question was in a vendor forum.  The vendor edited the post (they have moderator access to their forum).

I don't edit posts.

Apologies for spreading mis-information. It seemed totally out of character.

[ironman31]

Hopefully there's no more geekhack drama like that again

[iMav]

He only came back to purchase that keyboard from KillerBee...and then got upset when others tried to convince KB not to sell it.

[xsphat]

As far as sales and stuff go, in my experience anyway, webwit was always a stand up guy. I would buy something from him right now and feel confident that what I paid for would come as described and in a timely manner. His flaw is his personality — I've known dead hookers who were more personable. See why I miss him so?

[wellington1869]

I'm itching for a fight.

keyboardlover is who you're looking for.

i think i owe you an email, btw

[wellington1869]

I've seen him around OCN.

love the avatar, rhaullan

[mr_a500]

Well this post in its entirety is being typed on the IBM Model M 1386304 from 1985, using the controller from a IBM Model M 1390120 from 1986..

Bah! I thought your June 1985 Model M was PC compatible. The fact that you had to swap controllers ruins it for me.

As for comparing early '86 Model M vs. later models - my June 10 1986 Model M has a nearly identical feel to my July 1991 Model M. My 1984 IBM AT Model F (used to type this) blows them both away.

[KillerBee]

Bah! I thought your June 1985 Model M was PC compatible. The fact that you had to swap controllers ruins it for me.

As for comparing early '86 Model M vs. later models - my June 10 1986 Model M has a nearly identical feel to my July 1991 Model M. My 1984 IBM AT Model F (used to type this) blows them both away.

Believe me if you would feel how nice this board feels you would swap it too just to use it

[KillerBee]

I recommend banning Xsphat for necro posting.

Can you expand on the thought of necro posting... I will have to google that word in order to know what it is.

edit: I now know what it is

[microsoft windows]

It's not like my public polls are revealing anything sensitive. Does it really matter if somebody knows a person uses Mozilla for Internet browsing and doesn't like download managers from Adobe?

I think it's kind of ridiculous how you spam the forum and then complain about my polls. Clean up your own act before you whine about mine.

[microsoft windows]

I'll do my polls however I want. If you don't like them, there's nobody forcing you to vote in them.

[wellington1869]

i vote for whoever's losing.

[itlnstln]

Loser.

[wellington1869]

Loser.

yep. thats why i always vote for myself

[didjamatic]

I'm surprised we don't here the term "necropost" mentioned here more often.  Most forums have people post things like this whenever it happens:

[iMav]

I goof around with him all the time at OCN.

His language is much improved.

I was actually sad to see webwit go.  I always thought (and still believe) that the good out weighed the bad.  His name calling and over-the-top, indignant rants were always amusing.  (although referring to me as a rapist is certainly not his high point).  

I often wonder if he is anything like his bipolar online identity in RL.