Make my decision for me

[wfaulk]

I'm ready to actually purchase a keyboard, but I just can't seem to make a decision.  Someone help me out.

First, the keyboard is for work, where I sit in an awful half-height metal cubicle.  I'd prefer the keyboard to be reasonably quiet.  However, I found that there are pretty much none of the keyswitch clips from the roundup that I didn't feel guilty about playing after calibrating, more-or-less, to my mouse.

So I figure, screw it.  Everyone else can wear earplugs.  This seems to pretty much mean that the Cherry Browns I was considering are out of the running.  They don't really seem to be all that much quieter, so why trade away performance?

Okay, the Topre switches were probably quiet enough, but I'm not really sure that I want to spend well over $200 for a keyboard.  Which actually brings me to my second issue.

If I'm going to spend real money on a keyboard, I'd rather get one that's well made.  I recognize that most of the money is going into the switches, but I'd be more than willing to pay a little more for a keyboard that has some real build quality.  I mean, nothing is going to be my powder-coated steel tankproof Model M (which, belying my previous sentiment, I cannot possibly bring to work), but I'd rather get one that feels like it isn't going to break if I look at it funny.

Third, I refuse to buy a keyboard that doesn't have a decent scoop to the key layout, which is actually my main complaint with my current keyboard, far moreso than the key action.

Fourth, I'd prefer to get a keyboard that has as little extraneous casing as possible.  I actually like my current keyboard quite a bit from that standpoint.  Its casing is quite similar to the Filcos.  Most importantly, I don't want any sort of (at least unremoveable) wristrest.  Next, I'd like to waste as little left-right space as possible.  (I've seriously considered a tenkeyless keyboard, but I think I use the numpad a little too often for that.  I may change my mind.)  I'd prefer to avoid wasted space at the top (à la the Das), but that's just aesthetics, really.

Fifth, I always remap CapsLock to Control.  (Who uses CapsLock?)  I'd idly like to get a keyboard where I can replace the CapsLock keycap with something else.  I've considered a blank keycap board partially for that reason.  But I find that I occasionally look at the keyboard to get my bearings when I stop typing for a second.  I'm not sure if the blank keycaps would get me out of that habit, or if it would drive me nuts.  Relatedly, this keyboard is going to be mostly used under Linux, so key layout of the meta keys doesn't bother me all that much; I'm likely to remap them all regardless.  I'd kinda prefer not to have a Windows keycap; it just tweaks me wrong.  Which also pushes me towards blank keycaps, or the Das, with its alternative keycaps.  (Not that I want a stupid penguin on my keyboard, either.)

Right now my leaders are the Matias TactilePro 3 and one of the Filcos.  (One of the best keyboards I've ever used was what I now believe to be an Alps-based keyboard, based on the sound it made; more of a "snikt" than a "ping".  It was great until it got fouled with sheetrock dust.)  Close behind are the Topre (I particularly like the black-on-black aesthetic) and the Das.  I'm pretty sure I'd be buying one of the Topres if not for the price.  (The only negatives otherwise are the case bulk above the keys and the ugly LED surround, neither of which is a huge deal.)  I don't think there's anything I don't like more, specification-wise, on the Filcos than on the Das, but Das does have that no-questions-asked return policy.  (I suppose I could get the blue, return it, get the brown, return it, then get a Filco with whichever switch I liked better.  If I were that nefarious.  Which I pretend not to be.)

So if anyone can provide any feedback, I'd appreciate it.  I probably just need a shove in one direction or another.  I've been looking at them so long that it's lost all meaning, and I just can't seem to get off the pot.

[itlnstln]

If you want to spend the money, get the Topre Realforce, you won't be disappointed.  Otherwise, get the Filco with browns.  They aren't that loud.  Mine was about as loud as the Dell rubber dome 'boards around the office.  The Topre is a dream, though, and the build quality is second to none.

[keyboardlover]

If you want to spend the money, get the Topre Realforce, you won't be disappointed.  Otherwise, get the Filco with browns.  They aren't that loud.  Mine was about as loud as the Dell rubber dome 'boards around the office.  The Topre is a dream, though, and the build quality is second to none.

I second this. Agree completely.

[itlnstln]

I'm filling in for rdjack21.  I wonder where that guy went.  He probably moved to Japan and rents office space from Topre.  He's probably the director of the Topre Historical Society.

[aegrotatio]

The DAS Model S Silent with Cherry Brown switches is very quiet.  The chassis does not resonate loudly at all.  It's not that much louder than a really good rubber-dome keyboard.

[keyboardlover]

The price difference (right now) between a Matias or Filco with a Realforce is $70. That difference, to me, is enough to warrant a better build, better switch, and overall better keyboard (IMHO). Plus, they are in high demand for re-sale if you aren't happy with it. If you asked me to make your decision for you, I'd go with the Realforce.

If you really can't justify the extra expense, then I'd go for either the Filco or Das with browns. In any case, from what I understand all 3 are very good keyboards.

[Ekaros]

Hmm, I just noticed to check price of Topre and found out it would have costed me just 18€ more than Filco with browns... Still brows are likely better for gaming...


Can't realy say which is better option for you...

[Ekaros]

Wow, you must have paid a lot for that Filco then.  You sure you are comparing total costs?  Even in Japan Topres are 1.5 to 2X the price of anything else.

154€ from our friends at keyboardco.com or then Verkkokauppa.coms 169.90 is cheap for Topre...

[wfaulk]

Hrm.  You know how sometimes you think you don't know which you want, but when you ask for input you find yourself wanting to defend one more than another?

I'm surprised to see the claim (if I understand correctly) that the Realforce keyboards are built better than the Matias.  You can't judge a book by its cover, obviously, but the Realforce keyboards just look half-assed, like no one really cared a whole lot when designing them.  (We are talking about the ones for sale on EliteKeyboards, right?)  Of course, you can also make the argument that the Matias looks like form preceded function.

Also, I knew there was something I was forgetting.  Throw the HHKPro2 into the mix, too, especially with everyone talking up the Topre switches.  If I'm considering tenkeyless, I might as well go all the way.  I already run my shells in vi mode anyway; I wish some other things I used supported it.  (irssi, I'm looking at you.)

I wasn't expecting the strong pro-Topre sentiment.  Now I have more thinking to do.

[WhiteRice]

Flip a coin, but don't look at the result. For that moment when coin is in the air, you'll know what you secretly hope for.

.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

From what I read on this board, the HHKB Pro are generally considered to be worse than the "real" Topre RealForce boards.

I've not tried any realforce board, but I just got a HHKBPro2, and if the feel of the switches  is better on a RealForce than on a HHKB (and a few people on this msgboard claim so), they are very good indeed.

That's not to say you'd like them. The HHKB Pro switches feel very different from the mechanical switches I know (Alps and Model M buckling springs). I'm not even sure if I prefer them over BS switches right now, but they are VERY well made and you can feel that quite clearly. my "first impressions" review of the HHKB Pro 2 is here

[keyboardlover]

Hmm, I just noticed to check price of Topre and found out it would have costed me just 18€ more than Filco with browns... Still brows are likely better for gaming...

I've gamed (fps) with both and personally I think they're both fine for gaming (so long as the browns are 6kro or nkro). Topre's are 6kro which I've found to be fine for me...I'm no pro-gamer though.

[wfaulk]

I finally decided on a course of action.  I decided to be a jerk and take Das and Matias up on their 30-day guarantees.  It made sense to me to get the blue blank Das first, use it for a couple of weeks (if possible), then get in the Matias and use it for a couple of weeks.  If the noise level was acceptable on those, then choose which of those two I like best and keep it.  If the noise level was not acceptable, then return the Das and get the brown Das, switching to the inscribed keycaps if the blanks didn't work out for me.  That way I'd get a few weeks of trial of each of them.

(I do still want to try the Topre; I'm not sure how it fits in to all of this, though, since no one offers a trial.  Maybe just buy one and see….  I have wanted an HHK for nearly fifteen years now.)

However, it turns out that Das is sold out of their blue keyboards at the moment, supposedly to be back in stock in about three weeks.  Grrr.

Maybe I should just order a damned Topre and call it quits.

[ch_123]

Maybe I should just order a damned Topre and call it quits.

Now you're thinking with Portals...

[keyboardlover]

Maybe I should just order a damned Topre and call it quits.

Once I did that, I wished I had done that as soon as I joined the site. That's why I'm selling all my old keyboards in ebay

[chongyixiong]

...

(I do still want to try the Topre; I'm not sure how it fits in to all of this, though, since no one offers a trial.  Maybe just buy one and see….  I have wanted an HHK for nearly fifteen years now.)

However, it turns out that Das is sold out of their blue keyboards at the moment, supposedly to be back in stock in about three weeks.  Grrr.

Maybe I should just order a damned Topre and call it quits.

I wanted a HHKB for over a year plus before I finally saved up enough money for one over the course of one year.
You can do it too!

[wfaulk]

Well, pulled the trigger on a full-size black-on-black Realtouch.  I just couldn't come up with a great reason to spend more on the HHK for what's less keyboard, both physically (obvious) and technically (doesn't have the lower force switches for the weaker fingers).

[itlnstln]

I would seriously debate that the HHKB is "less" of a keyboard.  That said, congrats, you have a great 'board coming.

[keyboardlover]

Well, pulled the trigger on a full-size black-on-black Realtouch.  I just couldn't come up with a great reason to spend more on the HHK for what's less keyboard, both physically (obvious) and technically (doesn't have the lower force switches for the weaker fingers).

Congrats. You will love it. Did you get the 55g version?

[patrickgeekhack]

So I figure, screw it.  Everyone else can wear earplugs.  This seems to pretty much mean that the Cherry Browns I was considering are out of the running.  They don't really seem to be all that much quieter, so why trade away performance?

Brown Cherry can be very quiet if you don't bottom out heavily, but use a "touch-and-go" typing style. There are times when I can be quieter on my Filco than on my Topre.

Fifth, I always remap CapsLock to Control.  (Who uses CapsLock?)  

I use Caps Lock, so?

[itlnstln]

I use Caps Lock.

[patrickgeekhack]

I use Caps Lock.

Scroll Lock is probably the key which is not used anymore. Even then, I'm not sure. I always find it funny (really) when people assume that others do the same based on how they do things. Don't get me wrong, I've done it too. We are all  humans and we all make mistakes.

[itlnstln]

Pause/Break I use occasionally if I have the unfortunate need to use Access, and Print Screen I use for screen shots, but I never use Scroll Lock.  If I needed to swap a spacebar switch with a regular key switch (e.g. the MX11800), I would use Scroll Lock.

[patrickgeekhack]

Pause/Break I use occasionally if I have the unfortunate need to use Access, and Print Screen I use for screen shots, but I never use Scroll Lock.  If I needed to swap a spacebar switch with a regular key switch (e.g. the MX11800), I would use Scroll Lock.

Yes. Scroll Lock is the key I always used whenever I need to test something I have never done before.

[bigpook]

Some KVM's make use of scroll lock to switch screens.

[itlnstln]

Now that you mention it, I used to have a KVM that did that.  It was probably the best use of Scroll Lock for me since DOS.

[patrickgeekhack]

Now that you mention it, I used to have a KVM that did that.  It was probably the best use of Scroll Lock for me since DOS.

Oh, I forgot about this. I do have one such KVM but with PS/2 and VGA ports. Only one of my keyboards has a PS/2 port now and my wife does not like it: MX-11800.

[woody]

I do use Scroll Lock, Pause, etc. to map few important short-cuts, like desktop menu, maximize, minimize, etc. With Openbox it's easy to customize.

On the diNovo Edge there is a small "windows" button in the up-right corner, just above the volume bar. Made me a very handy kill-the-active-window shortcut. And a grain of pun.
________
Mark LT

[wfaulk]

Scroll Lock is probably the key which is not used anymore.

Yeah, good point.  Personally, I blacked out "Scroll" on my current POS keyboard with a Sharpie and remapped it to screenlock.

The only valid use I can think of for scrolllock any more is that Excel has some sort of difference when its activated.  I can't quite remember what now, though.

[wfaulk]

Congrats. You will love it. Did you get the 55g version?

Nope.  The regular version.  I like the concept of lighter keys to the outside.  Plus, I'd rather use less force in general.

I've used a fountain pen for quite a while now for longhand writing.  I used a ballpoint pen to write something vaguely lengthy the other day, and found my hand aching from the pressure I had to exert.

I'm not sure if that makes me refined or effete.  Either way, the less force needed, the better.