ISO or ANSI?

[QWER|key]

Hello... I'm new here.  In fact, I'm just new...  not even bought anything yet, but am sick of rubbish "Gaming" keyboards.

My question is regarding ANSI va ISO.  It's not really a "which is best" question in the usual sense, as I am prepared to get used to whatever one I decide upon, and then stick with it. The question is more about whether choosing an ISO format keyboard imposed limits on its ability to be customised in future. I searched some similar threads, but they all seemed to be about which is best for typing on. As my typing is terrible, and I'm also planning to learn to type properly, I can get used to anything.

Obviously not all keycaps have ISO extras included, so I suppose I am asking "What would you do?".  Get an ISO for ease of transition from my current board, or go ANSI to give myself far more future options with regard to choosing parts?  Conversely, not all keyboards have ISO options either..  in fact, from what I can tell, almost all custom boards I've seen in GBs are ANSI.

I think I know what the answer will be, but being new to all of this, I'd like to weigh my opinions against those of people who are further into the rabbit hole.  At the moment, I'm merely teetering on the edge.

Thanks in advance.

[_rubik]

I think the answer is and will always be: "whatever works best for you is preferable".

If you're swapping between multiple keyboards often at work or school, sticking with the most common layout is probably best. If you only ever use your and your keyboard alone, I'd pick ANSI.

Other things to consider: How important is customization to you? Do other people use your computer / keyboards? Do you buy ANSI or ISO laptops (again, you'll be swapping between the two)?

Granted this is coming from someone who has only ever used ANSI... so grain of salt... but you're always going to have more flexibility with ANSI boards.

[QWER|key]

but you're always going to have more flexibility with ANSI boards.

This was my thinking. I just wanted to be sure. I've literally been researching this for less than a day, but I was already starting to realise that most boards were ANSI. I can only imagine that at some time in the future...  probably sooner rather than later, I will be tempted to go into a GB on something nice...  I'm already liking the Odin board, but that's a bit much for my first foray into this...  so thinking longer term, I think I'll get used to ANSI.

Thanks for confirming my own thoughts.

David.

[ideus]

You can have both of either and keep one at the office and one at home. The real question is what do you prefer. Down the road, you will always find reasons to keep what you already have and other reasons to get what you do not have.

[ergonaut]

Since you posted this in the ergonomics subforum: Are you interested in the ergonomic aspects of ISO vs ANSI?

If so, I'd have to say that both layouts are super sh!tty in terms of ergonomics, but ANSI is a tiny bit less sh!tty than ISO, due to little details like the bigger left shift key and the closer-to-home enter key.

So if you have to have one of the two, I'd recommend ANSI.

[QWER|key]

Since you posted this in the ergonomics subforum: Are you interested in the ergonomic aspects of ISO vs ANSI?

Yes, very much so. I'm currently a horrible typist, and was planning to learn touch typing properly, so if ANSI has advantages, then I'd be happy to switch from ISO (I'm in the UK).

If so, I'd have to say that both layouts are super sh!tty in terms of ergonomics, but ANSI is a tiny bit less sh!tty than ISO, due to little details like the bigger left shift key and the closer-to-home enter key.

So if you have to have one of the two, I'd recommend ANSI.

I'm starting to agree. Thanks.

[Findecanor]

If so, I'd have to say that both layouts are super sh!tty in terms of ergonomics, but ANSI is a tiny bit less sh!tty than ISO, due to little details like the bigger left shift key and the closer-to-home enter key.

On the other hand, the ISO Return/Enter key is a larger target.
I believe the "best" one is actually mostly about which one you have grown used to, the one which you have adapted your typing style and muscle memory to.

[vvp]

Or ISO back slash is nearer to the home position. If you type a lot of file paths in windows then you may use backslash more often than enter and ISO turns better.

Or ISO international key is nearer to the home position while left shift is still not that far away. And ANSI does not even have "international key" :-/ You will have it harder if you will ever need to type with some locales other than US.

Both ISO and ANSI are a piece of crap compared to physical key layout of e.g. Kinesis Advantage.

[n3my]

Being from the UK, before I knew about custom keyboards I refused to use ANSI layout. I preferred the big enter button to smash whenever I needed it and since I grew up on ISO, it just made sense to stay. However few years later and started to play with custom keyboards and the first one I built was ANSI, because I didn't realize at the time the difference in stabilizers and keycaps needed. After the I got through the learning curved I now really enjoy the layout of the ANSI. Feels more accurate and I don't miss the big enter as much I thought I would.

Sometimes it worth trying both and get a feel what is right for you. Bare in mind different layouts need less or extra parts.

Hope this helps!

[iaji]

use ISO and colemak dh with iso mod. I don't know what the fuss about 'custom' or keycaps, though. I don't really care about those things.

[iso]

I wanna know who this ansi guy is, I need a word with him

[Rezkian]

If you want more options in the future, ANSI. But personally I love ISO so much that I'm willing to wait longer and pay more for it. It has extra keys and helps with writing international stuff. ISO easily translates to other languages/keyboard layouts.

[iso]

Was a joke check my username.

[stevep]

ISO is standard in the UK, but I used to look slightly enviously at ANSI keyboards due to their easier left-shift. It's a really minor difference as both are terrible, mainly due to the oversize spacebar instead of decent thumb keys.

If you're interested in ergonomics and willing to experiment with some non-standard mappings, then I'd say ISO is actually better:
- ISO allows an improved Angle Mod. This becomes even more important if you start looking at better layouts and/or improved ortholinear compatibility.
- The worse left shift in ISO can be entirely mitigated by not using the standard shift keys at all. They are in terrible positions anyway. When I was still using ISO keyboards, I mapped AltGr to Shift, which works much better, esp in conjuction with the Wide Mod.

[depletedvespene]

To add to what others have already said, consider one further factor: what national layout do you use? How does it cope with being transplanted from its "native" ISO or ANSI layout to the other one?

As an example: if you use the Spanish (Spain) layout, using an ANSI keyboard makes you lose access to the characters < and > , and the Ç and } characters get moved to the 1.5U alpha in row two, which is a pain.



Besides that, remember that you can go ISO, you can go ANSI, and you can go in between: ANSISO (long left Shift, vertical Enter) and ISANSI (short left Shift + extra alpha, horizontal Enter).

[ideus]

To add to what others have already said, consider one further factor: what national layout do you use? How does it cope with being transplanted from its "native" ISO or ANSI layout to the other one?

As an example: if you use the Spanish (Spain) layout, using an ANSI keyboard makes you lose access to the characters < and > , and the Ç and } characters get moved to the 1.5U alpha in row two, which is a pain.



Besides that, remember that you can go ISO, you can go ANSI, and you can go in between: ANSISO (long left Shift, vertical Enter) and ISANSI (short left Shift + extra alpha, horizontal Enter).

I use a slightly modified danish layout to write in English and Spanish—occasionally in Italian. It is far better than the US International layout that I used for years, although it always gets in my way, for example, when typing Tex or R Scripts. The three special letters å, æ, and ø, have alt-gr locations under the a, e and o, just in case I need them, which I seldom do, and their original locations are used for delete, left, and right keys. It is not easy to get key caps for this layout; but, over the years I have been getting Norde kits and found a source for three Danish Olivetti double shots with weird right-side mods that I get for a fairly good price. Now, I have beige, black, and Olivetti's colored alphas that I mix and match with mods that I have. I found this particular layout to be a great fit for my needs. I can use it with both, ANSI and ISO enter keys, but I always require the short left shift because I use the pipe-back-slash at its right (Tex user here).  I know that this is hardly a choice for everyone; but, I found that US-International is a lousy adaptation of the common US layout to some European languages, a compromise many have to live with. The way the dead keys are solved in Danish is way better than US-Int. I gave a try to Finish—another good multilingual layout—and German, but found Danish and Finish to be best and ultimately settle with Danish.

[Marboard]

For me ANSI was very easy to adjust to and for the number of parts available, it was worth it.

[Mandan]

I have an 84-key IBM Model F keyboard.   Well, 91 keys, now.

The F came with the canonical Big-Ass Enter key, which is what I was used to, and liked.   But the BAE uses three switch positions in prime real estate, and I wanted to recover one.  After scouting my options I bought a used ISO Enter keycap, from some IBM terminal.  Despite cleaning and lubing, it was prone to stick.   I bought another, which I think came from a DisplayWriter.  It was better, but stuck enough to be annoying.

Frustrated, I popped the Enter key off a spare Model M and put it on.  It worked just fine.  There was no learning curve; I had used a lot of ANSI keyboards.  The top of the BAE is now a 1.5u backspace key.

The Enter key is important, but it's also important enough that you learn the position from memory.  Could I split the ANSI key?  I put a 1.25u cap on the right-side post and the top of a two-piece cap over the empty left tower to keep dirt from getting in.

It took a little while to get used to the 1.25u Enter; apparently I mostly hit it on the left side, and now I had to hit to the right.  No big deal, just some finger retraining.

I also moved ESC from the cursor pad to the left top corner, moved ~,` to where the old 1u Backspace key was, split the 2u Insert key, replaced the 2u + key with an M keypad Enter, repurposed the never-used numlock, scroll-lock, and capslock keys, and split both the right and left Shift keys.

Splitting the right shift gave me no learning problems at all.  Splitting the left shift took a while to get used to.  I tried the 1.25u left half, then the 1u right half, went back to the original 2.25u for a while, and finally settled on using the left half of the split.

I have the bits for the M spacebar mod, but I haven't gotten around to that yet.

[Terrysko]

For me ANSI was very easy to adjust to and for the number of parts available, it was worth it.

The same goes for me, especially for programming, ANSI is way better. Whether the key assignment is US or US International is pretty much meaningless in this context.

[Mandan]

I have used, on the same IBM PC/AT keyboard, the original "Big-Ass Enter" key, an ISO Enter key, an ANSI Enter key, and I am now using a small 1.25u key, which let me recover two unused switch positions for extra keys.

The 1.25u is still larger than the old PC/XT keyboard, which had a 1u Enter.

I normally hit the BAE on the left bottom corner, the "foot".  It took a little getting used to for the ISO, learning to hit to the right.  The ANSI Enter, I used about 50/50. (I was putting paper labels on the tops, looking at the dirt patterns from use)  I don't think I ever used the top of the BAE or ISO key at all.

The 1.25u works just like the ISO, as far as "muscle memory" goes. 

I would say 60-70% of my "Enter key" use is the vertical 2u Enter key I put on the cursor pad.  I could probably recover one of the key barrels there by going to a 1u key, but I don't have an immediate use for another key, and I like karate-chopping the bottom corner with the edge of my hand.

I split the 2.25u left Shift key into a 1.25u shift and a spare key.  I originally intended to make that one a left-side Enter, but it turns out I don't use Enter as much as I thought I did, and my left hand is already overloaded with "CUA" control-key ZXCV and RFA commands.

Most keyboards won't give you the option of splitting keys, of course, but if you're using antique IBM hardware or wiring your own board, it can be useful.