IBM model M questions

[Genkaz]

Currently typing on the model M, it is really freaking loud, even noticeable with my sound isolation headphones on.
I do not understand what is so tactile about it so far, it has a perfectly linear feel to it, the only difference is the supposed slight click at the end a milimeter before it bottoms out. In other words, it does not appear to be possible not to bottom out on this thing, perhaps I am misunderstanding something about the principle of it being tactile, or perhaps I am simply so used to bottoming out that I need to practice not to do so.

It is extremely comfortable and generally has extremely well balanced ergonomis and excellent key feel.

it clearly appears to be increasing my accuracy so far, and generally appears to increase my typing speed, or at the very least match the one that I had on my ruber dome.

It is clearly built like a tank, and will most likely withstand virtually any key pounding that is thrown at it.

I was under the impression that being tactile meant that the keyboard actually has a noticeable distance between the key hit actually being registered and the actual bottoming out of the key, so far this thing simply appears to feel like a linear mechanical switch with a certain click at the end.

It is pretty large, and relatively heavy for a keyboard.

Please tell me what you think.

[Genkaz]

I think this.
If you can't feel the enormous tactile cliff on a Model M you've got a bad keyboard with mushy springs.  Check for broken rivets.  How old is this one?  Any shiny keys?

Here are a bunch of detailed images of it:

[Genkaz]

Ewww....A bit crusty but otherwise looks ok.

Might want to resize those pics a bit.

Eww about what? I wiped the keys with 91% alcohol. It is not as much as I cannot feel the click or the slight shift, but the fact that it does not really do anything. Although it is concerning that this thing only functions with fully bottomed out keys, as far as I am aware the whole purpose of having tactile keys is to have a capacity of only pushing them halfway and then moving onto the next key which increases your speed. So far I actually quite enjoy typing on this thing, and I am already ridiculously accurate on it, and already faster then on MX blacks.

[Genkaz]

The goal is to type accurately and comfortably.  If a keyboard does that for you don't worry about the bottoming part out.  I think the whole "bottoming out" part is way overemphasized around here.

I perfectly agree, but I am still curious about the whole mechanic of it. I was genuinely under the impression that one of the whole points of having a tactile switch is to give it a capacity of registering a command while only being half pushed as opposed to the requirement of fully pushing down the key on the linear switches.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

I perfectly agree, but I am still curious about the whole mechanic of it. I was genuinely under the impression that one of the whole points of having a tactile switch is to give it a capacity of registering a command while only being half pushed as opposed to the requirement of fully pushing down the key on the linear switches.

You don't have to bottom out on linear, you just won't feel or hear (unless by software design) the key being registered.

I'm under the impression there's little in the way of not having to hit the bottom on the M if one's typing slowly. It goes almost to the bottom anyway, so if you depress a key and wait for it to catch, it will be very near the bottom. You just won't do the finger punch. It changes, however, when you're typing fast. Then you can zap the keys pretty nicely, sometimes to the point it feels as if you're merely brushing them.

FYI, I located my old M on Saturday behind my step-father's fridge. It's been back on duty since yesterday. My speed still doesn't match good rubber dome (e.g. IBM SK-8820) or good scissors but it's improving. I thought this was the keyboard I learnt to type on, but no. I think that was model F and some AT keyboard with function keys on the left. That stuff was clicky! Almost like it would cut your finger if you pressed further. I've started a hunt, maybe I'll find one somewhere in this country. What I bought today turned out to be from a terminal, not an XT, lol. Model C2.

Don't you hate the space bar? I've put a single layer of paper tape on the metal stabiliser to instill some civilisation down there but it's not great now either (the key feels like a mule but at it least it doesn't make the earth shake... I must find thinner tape). If you want to try it yourself just don't leverage the space bar with anything that you could break if you tried, and don't pull it because there's a cord there.

[Genkaz]

The space bar and the backspace on this thing are definitely much firmer and "isolated" then on most of the keyboards that I tried so far. If on most boards I hardly even noticed that I pressed the space key or the backspace, I actually have to focus my attention quite often on them when typing on this keyboard.

I do agree about the curious tactile nature of the keys, they certainly do show their tactile quality significantly more when you are actually typing on them, they suddenly acquire a much lighter and faster feel when pushed upon in a rapid manner.

I do believe that model F's were significantly firmer and had a higher actuation point then the model M's, according to various individuals on geedhack and overclock.

Generally I am highly enjoying this keyboard so far, it has an extremely pleasant feel, flawless ergonomics, and appears to be excellent for both typing and gaming.

I already appear to be increasing my typing speed on it and generally making significantly less mistakes then I did just yesterday, hopefully this area will continue to improve.

In some ways I am fascinated with the model M mini, but they appear to be pretty difficult to get around, and generally quite expensive.

[Phaedrus2129]

Model Ms have gone up in price recently as more people learn about mechanical keyboards and the Model M in particular. I got mine for $20 shipped, and that was considered an average deal. Now you're lucky to get one in as good shape for $30+shipping.

[Genkaz]

Model Ms have gone up in price recently as more people learn about mechanical keyboards and the Model M in particular. I got mine for $20 shipped, and that was considered an average deal. Now you're lucky to get one in as good shape for $30+shipping.

Would you label my deal as decent? I purchased the model M from this seller:

link

It is a little bit dirty case wise, but the actual mechanism and mechanics appear to be relatively fresh and fully functional.

[Daniel Beaver]

I do believe that model F's were significantly firmer...

The opposite is true. Model F keyboards actuate at about 60g of force, Model Ms at between 60g-80g (depending on what sort of condition the springs and rivets are in).

[spremino]

It changes, however, when you're typing fast. Then you can zap the keys pretty nicely, sometimes to the point it feels as if you're merely brushing them.

I agree.  The mechanics of slow vs fast typing are different.  Your fingers will learn where the click is and will stop accelerating before reaching it.  When people say that bottoming out is bad, they mean "bottoming out with full force", as you have to do on membrane keyboards, because the activation point is not sharply defined.  Moreover, an advantage of a lower activation point is that you can rest your fingers over the keys without worrying about accidentally firing keypresses.

[ch_123]

The opposite is true. Model F keyboards actuate at about 60g of force, Model Ms at between 60g-80g (depending on what sort of condition the springs and rivets are in).

Yes, but the springs on the F fight back more. They're also more tactile. It would be easier to think that they are stiffer.

[Genkaz]

I did mostly mean the higher actuation point on the model F's rather then the amount of force required to push on them, I also believe that the switches have a stiffer sharper character then on the model M.

Typing on the model M is becoming increasingly more pleasant, so far I have absolutely zero complaints about it concerning the actual mechanics. I am also starting to actually like the buckling spring sound of the keys, and on the second thought it is really not that loud. The only thing which I would be interested in improving is the size of this thing, but currently I really have no need of purchasing a Unicomp Spacesaver, also considering the fact that I have a rather extensive crapload of keyboard tray space due to my recent mod to it which went quite successfully.

It is quite interesting that at the first glance there is no such thing as future proof in the computer world, but then you stumble upon something like this keyboard, many units of which have been found on scrap yards, and still managed to work perfectly after relatively basic refurbishing.

[ch_123]

The Model F actution point is approximately in the same place. Have you ever used one?

[Genkaz]

The Model F actution point is approximately in the same place. Have you ever used one?

Actually I have not, I was under the impression that it was noticeably higher then model M's. I did hear many wonderful things about that keyboard though, it is also considered to be genuinely vintage unlike model M which is for the most part borderline modern, as far as I am aware.

[Genkaz]

By the way, perhaps it could be a good idea for me to check for any broken rivets just to be idiot proof nuts and bolts mod wise?

[Genkaz]

It appears to be secure enough to me, only one rivet is missing:

[NewbieOneKenobi]

I did mostly mean the higher actuation point on the model F's rather then the amount of force required to push on them, I also believe that the switches have a stiffer sharper character then on the model M.

Yup. I loved that feel.

[Genkaz]

Out of curiosity, how quiet are the "Enhanced Quiet Touch" buckling springs, and are they different in terms of their tactile nature/actuation point?

[jpc]

Enhanced Quiet Touch boards use rubber domes, not buckling springs.

I had a rubber dome model M and it was surprisingly noisy. It was also not very nice to type on; Keytronics boards are less wobbly and less jiggly.

[Rajagra]

#4 is an urban myth.  Wait long enough and EVERY IBM Model M is going to need a nut/bolt mod.

Shake your Model M and listen for these.

Show Image

I bought a second Model M a few months ago (just to get an Esc key for my first one :smile: ) I did nothing with it because when I turned it end on the noise was like a pair of maracas being shaken. I assumed most of the rivets had gone.

I got around to cleaning it and opening it up yesterday. Must have been at least 20 paper clips rattling around inside. And just one broken rivet. :cheer2:

[Culinia]

Hope you don't mind me posting in here, but I have a question about this keyboard and saves starting a new thread. Apologies if it has been answered before but I have had a quick skim through and did not see it.

How much are these keyboards worth?
I checked on eBay UK and two went for £56 and £55 which, according to google is $87!
However looking at various other websites this seems quite expensive, is this really how much I should be looking to spend on one of these?

[ch_123]

UK layout Model Ms are comparatively rare on the second hand market, and thus command a higher premium.

[Culinia]

UK layout Model Ms are comparatively rare on the second hand market, and thus command a higher premium.

OK thanks - that makes sense. I will have to find out if it would be more economical to import one!

[Rajagra]

UK layout Model Ms are comparatively rare on the second hand market, and thus command a higher premium.

On ebay UK all model Ms are rare compared to the US. Ironically US models are likely to be cheaper when they appear as most people do want a 'native' layout. But I'd recommend getting a US one if you see it cheap. The benefits outweigh the drawbacks if you are willing to tweak your system.

Try searching EU-wide on ebay (there is an option for that.) They seem to have more model Ms than the UK does, and postage is much more reasonable than from the US. No risk of paying duty either.