By the way, if one goes through the efforts to bring a board to EU, but not offering ISO hot swap, is laziness.
And do not come with the “ISO is much used”. Guess what, in the EU it is.
Grab as much money with the least effort……..

It's sad to see that you're so upset over the omission of an ISO hotswap PCB, but I guess it's flattering that you're interested in the project otherwise (so thanks!)

As pointed out above, the choice to omit that was due to historic sales data that we (AKB/CannonKeys) refer to when making these decisions. As much as I'd love to support every option possible on this, the demand isn't there. It isn't possible to properly implement ISO on the same hotswap PCB and it would be much more expensive to offer a standalone hotswap option given the inevitable low sales.

I did still ensure that ISO users are catered for on the solderable PCB however so I'm not completely shutting the door on my neighbours 

Quote from: Ceyx on Thu, 06 June 2024, 02:22:08

By the way, if one goes through the efforts to bring a board to EU, but not offering ISO hot swap, is laziness.
And do not come with the “ISO is much used”. Guess what, in the EU it is.
Grab as much money with the least effort……..

It's sad to see that you're so upset over the omission of an ISO hotswap PCB, but I guess it's flattering that you're interested in the project otherwise (so thanks!)

As pointed out above, the choice to omit that was due to historic sales data that we (AKB/CannonKeys) refer to when making these decisions. As much as I'd love to support every option possible on this, the demand isn't there. It isn't possible to properly implement ISO on the same hotswap PCB and it would be much more expensive to offer a standalone hotswap option given the inevitable low sales.

I did still ensure that ISO users are catered for on the solderable PCB however so I'm not completely shutting the door on my neighbours 

You‘re rightfully flattered, it‘s beautiful board. I even considered finding someone to do the soldering for me, but.. nah. By the way, we wouldn‘t even have this convo if it wasn‘t sold in EU at all. Then I‘d go „Yeah beautiful, but it‘s not meant for me.“

Regarding sales history/demand, it‘s pretty obvious that ISO isn‘t in demand at CannonKeys.
Have you specifically asked the people in the EU about what they‘d want when planning to sell 100+ boards there, or is your historic data based just on general IC?

Regarding „isn't possible to properly implement ISO on the same hotswap PCB and it would be much more expensive“, I call bull **** on that take. More expensive than to expect EU customers to invest in and learning to use solder gear? Hell nah.
The only point I‘m willing to give you there is maybe low total number of boards. I have no experience about how much one can push pcb prices down. So how about a compromise?
Do you think it would benefit customers/be more customer friendly to determine how many orders would be with ISO option and produce that amount of PCBs with said option?
I mean.. it‘s damn difficult to just „accept things as they are“, when I have a 139 bucks board in front of me that offers everything except right split-shift on the PCB (LK65).

I guess, this here is a opinion/mindset against opinion/mindset thing.
To put in to an end, I would kindly ask if it would be possible to get new quotes for PCB prices if they were done with ISO option.
You‘re not required to, you have no obligation to, and I‘d have to accept it. Just.. would be nice to have some actual numbers than just words.

Regarding sales history/demand, it‘s pretty obvious that ISO isn‘t in demand at CannonKeys.
Have you specifically asked the people in the EU about what they‘d want when planning to sell 100+ boards there, or is your historic data based just on general IC?

I work as a project manager for CannonKeys and have handled many keyboard group buys since September 2022. Most of these sales had vendors in various regions all over the world, including the EU and the UK, so the sales data that I refer to isn't specific to the US. People vote with their wallets, and I'm just catering to the voters here. I wish things were different but the data speaks for itself.

Regarding „isn't possible to properly implement ISO on the same hotswap PCB and it would be much more expensive“, I call bull **** on that take. More expensive than to expect EU customers to invest in and learning to use solder gear? Hell nah.

I think you've misunderstood my point here. the issue with properly implementing ISO onto the same hotswap PCB isn't down to cost - it's down to physical part clearance. The only way I've seen this be achieved on other PCBs in the past is rotating the switch orientation in such a way that causes further issues. The size and shape of hotswap sockets doesn't allow for it all to fit properly unfortunately.

As for the cost side of things, the economy of scale just isn't there. Parts get cheaper when ordered at higher quantities so if I were to sell ISO hotswap PCBs, I'd have to base the sale price on a low order quantity and that's where the cost would be silly. Imagine asking customers to pay an additional "tax" for using an ISO PCB over an ANSI one, because the raw part cost is 2-3x the cost. That to me is more insulting to the customer than simply omitting it altogether, and instead we've ensured that they're still catered to on the solder side of things.