Author Topic: MsErgo4k+CherryBn+TenKeyLess+G15+FootSwith+Abs plastic fab+TEkeyStaggering  (Read 52797 times)

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Offline Lanx

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Yes! i have the record for longest most informative mod.
Starting another ergo4k mod, i know i said i wouldn't but a few things came to mind.

Keeping it tenkeyless
But will try to fabricate the ends and make it "nicer looking" with abs plastic/bondo.
Making the G15 as the main controller w/ the macro's LCD pending... really have no option to put this thing
Going to use the G15 Usb hub in this mod this time.
Foot pedals, i got a 6$ tattoo foot pedal that i plan to hook up to one of the G15 macro's i'll prolly rewire it to accept a rj11 connection
Biggest change will be sorta copying the staggering idea from truelyergonomic/nostromo N52.

*edit*
ugh just learned r00tworm killed lots of pic links, here's an archiveweb link that has 80% of the other pics
http://web.archive.org/web/20140407134426/http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=12439.0

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #1 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 14:18:01 »
ok here's the ergo 4k, and g80-8200


Disected


my initial model layout basically.


the overlay of the angled section, basically i'll have 4x5 keys for both left and right hands.


If anyone is interested this is how i'll keep the keys sectioned off so i don't loose my mind searching for "M" among 106 keys.


This is all just planning for now, i'll get into the nitty gritty modding later this week.

Offline kill will

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« Reply #2 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 15:15:18 »
good luck dude. looks interesting.
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 November 2010, 15:20:39 by kill will »
I <3 BS

Offline msiegel

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« Reply #3 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 15:32:47 »
very cool -- go Lanx! :D

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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #4 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 16:03:03 »
included is the pic of the foot switch i'll be playing with, just some tattoo foot switch i found off of ebay for like 6bucks, i'll cut off the wire and use like a rj11 connection to the keyboard later on.
i've also got the g15 lcd and controller there, those are where i'll estimate that they'll be. The LCD i'll put right there on the attachment that gives the ergo4k it's negative slope.


Offline WhiteRice

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« Reply #5 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 19:52:42 »
Lanx you have HUGE rats!

Seriously, you're pretty talented and I look forward to your work. :)

Offline didjamatic

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« Reply #6 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 20:04:41 »
Good luck on the mod, if you pull it off that will be one nice board.  

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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #7 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 20:07:44 »
lol no way am i talented, ppl just don't want to make a mech keyboard i'd want to buy! Trust me my V1 is pretty dirt ugly, i mean it functions like a dream but if a person who didn't know why it was modded that way would think that it was dropped from a 3story building and i tried to salvage it.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #8 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 02:37:23 »
Here's the work area, hakko is lovely btw man, got through desoldering so much quicker with a proper iron (that's the british in me).


here's my diy cherry switch removal tool, just bent a tweezer inwards, after like 10 switches i can open a switch in 3s.


here's something interesting i thought this g80 would have diodes like my previous one, nope, it's just a piece of wire, wth! they still solder it tho! now this irks me, more stuff to desolder that has no purpose!


I'm a horrible "hands on" guy i barely can draw with a ruler here's proof


Here's my first "left side" stagger done, this is the part that angles only.


Here's the completed set, had to re drill the holes, 19m apart, i think i did pretty good, only the /? looks kinda funky everything else looks nice imo.


can't do no dremeling tonite, neighbors and all and sleeping fiancee. I'll see if i can sneak in some mod time tomorrow.
(that's where i burn lot's of abs plastic)

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #9 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 17:41:36 »
dremel+abs plastic=
FUMES
and messy messy


various tools i'm using, my dyson.
it's good to keep it on to suck up the dust
the datavac to blow the embedded grind dust away
(yea i know i got masking tape on my dyson, after 6 years of abuse, the hose is ripped up, and i can't find a decently priced replacement hose)


here's the dremeling out of the 2 slopes and the other areas, basically the 86 keys section.


oh noes! true ergonomic not shipping yet? here's a pre production model!
yea i'm NOT staggering it vertically, i was testing it out and really, there's no need to stagger column wise (and no i'm not being lazy look at what i've done already!)


it's already uping the truely ergonomic in that it has that built in middle slope, it already feels "right".
this is where the hard part comes in, figuring out where to drill holes to "keep" things in place.

Offline nanu

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« Reply #10 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 17:55:08 »
I dunno man, I prefer the smell of melted plastic, over PCB dust.

The staple-like wires are jumpers. Useful for jumping across a maze of circuit traces. Diodes can go in place of them for a clean way to provide NKRO.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #11 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 18:04:24 »
to me, it seems like those traces are used to bridge the switches, the layout looks just like how i had the other g80 where one trace would connect to one switch. IMO they didn't want to use diodes, but they didn't want to retool a new pcb so they just put in the staple wires just so that the board could follow the design of the previous g80's without retracing a new board.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #12 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 21:07:33 »
forgot to mention surgical mask (i don't have a full blown bomb kit!) and long sleeves/pants heck i'm even wearing socks now when i do ABS dremeling, that flinging hot plastic on your skin will make you cry.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #13 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 16:10:08 »
crude paper template of the end side (tab/tilde/caps etc...)


needed to xfer couldn't figure out a nice way to do it good until i just thought hey why not dip the ends and in whiteout and transfer it to the board.
didn't have white out
but i knew fiancee had lots of nail polish!
score some white beige polish


have some stuff to do, so this is as far as i got, yea doesn't seem like much but i just had to trial and error fit that side board in, then i'll have to make another for the bottom side (ctrl/win/alt)

i'll prolly also make room to put 1 macro keyswitch near tilde
and one near alt since there's dead space i might as well make use of it (or hide it).

Offline msiegel

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« Reply #14 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 16:27:12 »
good hacking technique :D

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Offline zefrer

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« Reply #15 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 17:23:54 »
I never thought I'd say this but I agree with Ripster. Gasp. Awesome stuff Lanx. Looking good.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #16 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 17:48:30 »
any ideas on making the pcb board look nice? i'd want to eventually fill in the holes (that i don't use) and paint it black (or something, spay can?).
also slightly debating using euro enter key (since i got used to it on my first mod) but doesn't seem likely since it was really made with stagger in mind.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #17 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 22:00:15 »
basically done cutting out the pcb boards, gonna use the nail polish dip method to finish up the rest of the switches.
(i might redo the left side, i kinda don't like it, but it fits really flush tho)
the blank keycaps are where i'll place my macro buttons (g15 has 6 macro buttons, i'll use 2 where the back/foward is on the keyboard i'll use microswitches for those). I think i'll replace the whole lower right row with macro switches, i don't ever remember using them (i might have the menu button around just in case) but i think i'll just make those macro buttons.

Offline zefrer

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« Reply #18 on: Thu, 11 November 2010, 05:01:55 »
Quote from: Lanx;245212
any ideas on making the pcb board look nice? i'd want to eventually fill in the holes (that i don't use) and paint it black (or something, spay can?).


Yeah, how about a thin piece of some kind of plastic to fit in between key caps and PCB so the PCB is covered up. So you'd cut out gaps for the keycaps and top of the switch to fit through, fit the plastic on top of the switches sans keycaps and then put on the caps.

Might be too hard to do with just a dremel tho, if there is somewhere you can get it cut that'd be easier maybe.

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #19 on: Thu, 11 November 2010, 10:31:19 »
Quote from: Lanx;244745
it's good to keep it on to suck up the dust
Pcb cutting should be done outside. Pcbs are made of Formaldehyde. You don't want the dust airborne in your house.

But good work so far.

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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #20 on: Thu, 11 November 2010, 15:18:07 »
Is that why my mouth tinges when I dremel? Serious question

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #21 on: Fri, 12 November 2010, 13:46:03 »
Probably not. Formaldehyde is carcinogenic in higher dosages so better avoid it.

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Offline Sam

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« Reply #22 on: Sat, 13 November 2010, 21:33:08 »
This is looking like one awesome mod.  Way to go!

Offline rantenki

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« Reply #23 on: Sat, 13 November 2010, 23:10:14 »
Quote from: lowpoly;245378
Pcb cutting should be done outside. Pcbs are made of Formaldehyde. You don't want the dust airborne in your house.

But good work so far.


Kinda true; those cheap phenolic boards release formaldehyde (and I believe the M$ 4k uses that kind), but decent quality boards are epoxy and glass.

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #24 on: Sat, 13 November 2010, 23:17:02 »
You're an inspiration with this mod, Lanx. Truly an adventure that's succeeding! When I see this I'm inspired to re-do my buckling spring HHKB Lite into Cherry Browns.
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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #25 on: Sun, 14 November 2010, 04:48:25 »
Thanx for the kind words pplz.

these are the stupid millimeter intricate cuts i have to make to make em fit. Not to mention just shaving off micro meters.


i'm getting cuts all over my hands, i think i'll start wearing safety gloves, these aren't big cuts, just like large paper cuts, usuallyt he pcb and the wiring just manage to get caught in my skin, ouch.

a box of cherries.
only on this forum will this pic make any lick of sense.


No updates for the weekend really cuz well, it's significant other time heh. Actually i went and tried to drill a few pilot holes for my spacebar mod and she came in and was like, what are you doing spending so much time with this keyboard?
I'm like here try it out. and she was like "yea i hate it".
I don't think she hates the mech keys, she is using a ml4100 (cuz it's nice and compact) she really hates the ergo split so like i really know how my mod just seems really niche to most ppl.

btw was also playing with the idea of vertical shift button, just didn't feel right, i think i'll just stick to standard.
(will probably keep the center enter button and probably put a delete/backspace button on top of it too, i would like ideas!).
ideas on what center keys i should put in? i already put in the enter key for my v1 mod and i use it sparringly. I believe i can fit a max of 2 horizontal buttons in the middle (a tab size and then a regular size on top of it).

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #26 on: Sun, 14 November 2010, 04:52:37 »
Quote from: zefrer;245312
Yeah, how about a thin piece of some kind of plastic to fit in between key caps and PCB so the PCB is covered up. So you'd cut out gaps for the keycaps and top of the switch to fit through, fit the plastic on top of the switches sans keycaps and then put on the caps.

Might be too hard to do with just a dremel tho, if there is somewhere you can get it cut that'd be easier maybe.


you mean like after i'm done with the pcb fitting, unsolder all the switches and fit some type of like saran wrap (but like plastic or soemthing) over it?

Offline zefrer

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« Reply #27 on: Sun, 14 November 2010, 12:54:14 »
Yeah but I was thinking maybe you can fit it around the switches without desoldering them.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #28 on: Thu, 18 November 2010, 04:55:05 »
so i browsed around and found some epoxy, it's the kind where you rub,heat up and it changes color, pretty nasty stuff. but works great to fill in the holes for the pcb soon.


found some more uses for the nail polish, i did get reprimanded... fiancee said wth is my nail polish doing in the kitchen, then you could at least use old nail polish.
i paint the sections i want gone then i proceed to drill it out. It's a lot... "safer" than using a dremel, normally when i do the abs plastic with a dremel i have to wear goggles, a mask, a hat full length clothing. Mainly cuz the dremeling makes the abs plastic fly and when it flies it is like scorching 300degrees hot, drilling just takes a bit more hand holding really.


i basically cut out each pcb part, here you can sorta see the 3x3 cluster for the home/pgdn area and the 4 arrow key cluster.


the left side is looking awesome i got it done and will slap another macro key right next to the tilde. After getting the new key order i found that the slopped caps lock worked better for the board, since it is not actually slopped but it has less plastic and that's good cuz these keys slope up towards the middle and basically the caps lock key was kinda touch my pinky when resting, now with the indented caps lock, that doesn't happen.


the right side i done too, i did away with the right side menus and instead replaced them with the macro keys, i am having an issue if ppl can see, the backspace/insert are going to collide with each other.
This is an issue cuz any ergo keyboard the number "6" is usually on the left side, but with this one i found proper placement was really on the right side so moving that over, i have no room and basically i'm going to collide. I think i'll be cutting through the insert key since well, i barely use it anyone,
suggestions? i welcome them.

Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #29 on: Thu, 18 November 2010, 09:46:50 »
Swap CapsLock and Backspace? Or cut off a wedge from the right side of Backspace and fill in with that putty so the edge is vertical?

Looking great so far.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #30 on: Thu, 18 November 2010, 12:37:51 »
i'm going for more of a "pimp" look this time so i want the board to look good i guess, so i want to keep the backspace, a backspace i guess my only real course is to mod out the insert key.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #31 on: Thu, 18 November 2010, 23:43:00 »
i mthink i'll just move the += sign down near where Lctrl would be, this way i don't need to do super wierd cutting and its not like i touch type += anyway.

Offline msiegel

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« Reply #32 on: Fri, 19 November 2010, 00:13:19 »
go Lanx!

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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #33 on: Fri, 19 November 2010, 04:49:48 »
i meant the rctrl, i kinda have to do this too cuz currently i'll have no pcb space for the stabilizers either. uh this flu making me not think right.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #34 on: Fri, 19 November 2010, 11:39:01 »
i fashioned my middled section divider.


this is it installed and fitted on.


it looks better when i flip it over.
this one has 2 switches, my v1 had 1 switch, and it was ALOT easier, cuz i just had 1 vertical keycap and i could just screw it in, actually that mod took like 5mins. While this current mod took a while to figure out.


if you notice i actually dremeled out a slot to fit it on one end and then through the hole on the other, and the compression keeps everything together.
this is with the keycaps on, i won't use these particular caps, but the size is just right.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #35 on: Tue, 23 November 2010, 08:36:44 »
went browsing at michaels (the arts and crafts store) and found nothing that could basically saran wrap over the boards, i have desoldered everything in anticipation for this but haven't found anything useful. I think i'll just end up spray painting the pcb boards black.

Offline lloyd

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« Reply #36 on: Tue, 23 November 2010, 15:53:14 »
Oh my. This mod is crazy, ridiculous, and completely awesome. Splendid work so far, sir.

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #37 on: Tue, 23 November 2010, 15:58:30 »
Agreed. Sexy mod Lanx!

Offline CodeChef

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« Reply #38 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 00:52:29 »
I. DEMAND. MOAR!

This is incredible, I CAN'T WAIT to see this thing all done!
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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #39 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 07:23:09 »
so financee went to get a black friday haircut at the salon cuz it's 50% off, i decided to do some shopping at the local kmart


i'm so colorblind that when i bought it home my financee said, you know that's green right? (i thought it was flat black)
but it kinda works so whatever!
here's all the pcbs stripped and sanded


here's it sprayed
says it drys in 15, 1day for full set in.
smells like my old testors paint from when i was barely a teen. I'm not gonna lie i spray a few extra times just to remember the smell!


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i gave the pcbs a second coat and sprayed the edges more too later on.


found this different dremel bit, i think it might be nice to try, to see if i can now route out the abs plastic instead of using the biggest drill bit and hoping it catches the plastic instead.


i'm gonna let the pcbs dry for a few days and set in all nice like. Until then i still have to trace the G15 controller, want pics of all that too? tracing is fun to do.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #40 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 11:40:31 »
here's the assembled stuff on my carpet.
all those wierd little angles are kinda on purpose, to fit with bent/angled board and curved surface.


look like i'll have to unsolded the f1-f12 and others to match, no biggie.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #41 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 08:34:12 »
think i'll remake the spacebar pcb to extended it half an inch outwards both ways, this is just for vanity, it'll cover up a bit of the underside molding. other than that i got the f1-12 keys all repainted, working on the g15 controller now. Came upon a weird issue my hakko soldering iron can't seem to melt the solder if i go
solder->wires->hakko.

i must be doing something wrong, i have the heat from 700-800 sometimes, still no go.

Offline hoggy

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« Reply #42 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 08:57:23 »
It might be that the element in the iron is on it's way out, this would cause it's temperature to fluctuate.
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Offline JBert

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« Reply #43 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 08:57:43 »
Wires need some time to heat up depending on their thickness. I've soldered some 1.5mm wires once, but those take quite some warming up even with a 50W soldering station.

Best is to leave the temperature at its default setting so you don't unnecessarily burn the flux in your solder, just wait a little longer for the wire to heat up before applying solder.

Obviously, this won't work if you are soldering short wires with sensitive components on the other side.
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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #44 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 09:15:39 »
Quote from: hoggy;253316
It might be that the element in the iron is on it's way out, this would cause it's temperature to fluctuate.


i don't think it could be the element, i mean i just bought it like a month ago, new, but it could be the case, i'm no expert, how would i test this?
Quote from: JBert;253317
Wires need some time to heat up depending on their thickness. I've soldered some 1.5mm wires once, but those take quite some warming up even with a 50W soldering station.

Best is to leave the temperature at its default setting so you don't unnecessarily burn the flux in your solder, just wait a little longer for the wire to heat up before applying solder.

Obviously, this won't work if you are soldering short wires with sensitive components on the other side.


i doing thin wires 24 gauge i think, and i can't get them to heat up cut to like 2in length, i'll try again soon, setting up my "work area now"

first pic is the g15 pcb disected, this is what ppl pay 80bucks for (i know special sales blah blah, we'll just say 80), it's incredibly a small pcb. A bit too lengthy for my tastes but i can work with it.


here is the underside of the pcb and why i like logitech keyboards to mod with, pins! (ok this is admittedly my second logitech keyboard i've opened up, but every other keyboard uses those wierd plastic coated things that i can't solder to!)


here we got the whole mess of wires layout, just reference from the first pic and see where all the wires go. The led wires wrap around the entire keyboard btw, so that's how they provide the bright backlight.

Offline JBert

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« Reply #45 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 15:40:20 »
Quote from: Lanx;253320
i doing thin wires 24 gauge i think, and i can't get them to heat up cut to like 2in length, i'll try again soon, setting up my "work area now"
Those should heat up in no time, even if you have just a 30W soldering iron to work with (check the soldering station, it should be on there).

It also helps to "tin" the wires before soldering them to something else. Put a tiny amount of solder on your solder tip to improves thermal conduction between the wire and the solder tip. Hold it to the wire, then touch the wire with the solder so that it flows in and wets it. Just don't add too much: you'll either have a blob of solder sitting on the end, or the solder might flow into the sheathing and start to melt it, revealing the bare wire.
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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #46 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 15:50:38 »
that's the issue i'm running into. I had no problems doing all my soldering with a basic radioshack 30w. Then i upgraded to a hakko 536 and it was great for desoldering the cherries but can't do jack for soldering, i'll be plugging in both of these irons to see what's up.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #47 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 07:05:49 »
abs burning in the morning.
there's the easy tenkeyless i kept a lot of the shroud plastic this time around, next pic.


the sideview with the shroud plastic still attached, covers up quite a bit of nasty.


the bottom section attached, yellow circle is the shroud still there. The blue is where i'll fill in the empty space, and i left a lot of abs around so i can hand sand it down. I'll prolly do a flat edge rather than a beveled edge, have sandpaper from 60/100/150 grit.


no different than my v1 really, just wanted to let ppl see the "skeleton" of it all. you see where i have the nail polish circling everything that's gonna be dremel'd out. all that space is reserved for the wires/circuitry/controller (i could put the controller where the wrist rest would be, but i'd be destroying wristrest/keyboard stability which is what i encountered with my v1.


hmmm looks like a smileyface.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #48 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 11:56:23 »
here's my radioshack vs. hakko solder iron... so scary


drilling holes to mount the pcb to abs plastic


here's the screws sticking out topside view
yea don't worry i'll probably trim a few mm off the screws and they're already spraypainted green.


all the screw placements to keep the pcb on lockdown and not wiggle. i wasn't so concerned with the outter edge so i only get it one screw, the main 5x4 cluster definently needed 2 screws.

i'll have to redo the tilde since putting in the screws it's missaligned so i'll have to reepoxy it/sand/paint and drill holes for it.


dremeling out the insides


some more close up

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #49 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 13:21:14 »
unrelated but a project i want to do later

think i'll use "claw grip"