Author Topic: Help me with keyboards?  (Read 4592 times)

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Offline hfcobra

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Help me with keyboards?
« on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 11:46:51 »
I don't know a lot about keyboards, but I game a LOT with RTS games, mostly Starcraft 2 and I was wondering what is a really nice keyboard that works very well with this game?  Also, and what is a budget keyboard that also works really well for this game?  Currently I use a G110, but i have heard that this keyboard is not the best for this kind of thing.
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #1 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 15:01:54 »
do you use the macro buttons? that might or might not be a deal breaker for you.

Offline hfcobra

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 17:31:47 »
well i find uses for them, but if i didnt have them then it would be no big deal.  Besides, its against the rules to use a macro in a tourney so i dont use them when i play the game normally.
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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« Reply #3 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 17:48:06 »
I have a lot of fun using an IBM Model M for gaming. I have a lot stuff here (18 or 19 keyboards in this room alone), most of which mechanical, and the Model M seems to be the most to my liking for all applications anyway.
IBM Model M 1391406 (Lexmark \'93), Mech: Cherry G80-11900 (blacks), Compaq-branded Cherry G80 (browns), Filco Tenkeyless (blues), 10 Dells with black alps, Rubber dome: IBM SK8820, Fujitsu-Siemens Butterfly, Scissors: Hama SL570, Old stuff: IBM Model C2 (3178 terminal)

Offline hfcobra

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« Reply #4 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 18:27:06 »
ok well thanks for the reply since not a lot of people seem very interested in this   :(    do they make black mech keyboards?   i want my keyboard to at least match my tower and mouse otherwise it will look very ugly.   They are black and red to be specific, and backlit helps too since i always play in the dark    :D
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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« Reply #5 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 18:40:03 »
Plenty of mechanical keyboards are black, especially the gaming ones. Razer Blackwidow is black:

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.211324200

Deck is black:

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Steelseries makes them black too:

http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-7g

And many, many others not designated as gaming pieces (ABS M1, some Cherries, TVS Gold, Solidtek ASK6600, and obviously the Das Keyboard units, which are actually piano black). I suppose most mechanical keyboards that aren't very old are black. The white colour dates back to when most computer cases were white.

Also, Unicomp makes Model M keyboards (the "buckling spring", which is not strictly speaking a mechanical keyboard as much as it tends to be seen as the definition of one) in the black colour.

I'd suggest trying in the shop, followed by starting with used pieces, to see what kind of feel you like the best. For example, most people like Cherry browns and I don't.

From your description, though, I'd probably go with this if I had the money (Razer Blackwidow ultimate):

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.211651300

But you really should give the old buckling spring IBM keyboard a go. In the Mods section of this forum there's plenty of threads on painting it black in a professional manner but unprofessional works great too. Heck, my sister has a keyboard painted with nail varnish with hand-drawn flowers on it. Myself, I'm inclined towards gold metallic and gluing fake stones to it, just for the kicks...
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 November 2010, 18:45:35 by NewbieOneKenobi »
IBM Model M 1391406 (Lexmark \'93), Mech: Cherry G80-11900 (blacks), Compaq-branded Cherry G80 (browns), Filco Tenkeyless (blues), 10 Dells with black alps, Rubber dome: IBM SK8820, Fujitsu-Siemens Butterfly, Scissors: Hama SL570, Old stuff: IBM Model C2 (3178 terminal)

Offline hfcobra

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:03:39 »
i have heard that the razor keyboards have the "ghosting" problem, when you press more than 2 keys at once and none of them work or something like that.   They have fixed the problem for the WASD cluster, but seeing as i play SC2 WAY more than i play shooters i dont use just the WASD cluster, i use the whole keyboard for the hotkeys.  Can anyone confirm this about the Razer keyboards?
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline MyNameIsDan

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« Reply #7 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:05:43 »
Cherry Brown keyboards seem to be the favored switch for rts.
Current Keyboard: Filco Majestouch 104 Browns (FKBN104M/EB)

Current Mice: Steelseries Xai (1400cc//800cc) on Steelseries 9HD.

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Offline 2084

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« Reply #8 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:11:29 »
Quote from: NewbieOneKenobi;243973
Plenty of mechanical keyboards are black, especially the gaming ones. Razer Blackwidow is black:


The keyboard is indeed black but I believe the switches are blues :)

Offline hfcobra

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« Reply #9 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:21:07 »
thank you everyone, your all a huge help.   Do they make any brown switch keyboards that are also backlit?  I prefer red LEDs but will take what i can get lol   :D  Money is not an issue so long as we aren't talking about too much more than 150 or 175 usd.   I've been looking online and cannot find what I want anywhere it seems.

EDIT:  I have looked at Deck Keyboards and am more than impressed, i just wish there was something exactly the same, just with Cherry Brown switches   :(
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:23:27 by hfcobra »
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:52:19 »
Quote from: 2084;243993
The keyboard is indeed black but I believe the switches are blues :)


Yeah, the switch is blue, but I believe we were talking about the colour of the casing only, at this stage. There's plenty of different switches in the black casing keyboards I listed. :)
IBM Model M 1391406 (Lexmark \'93), Mech: Cherry G80-11900 (blacks), Compaq-branded Cherry G80 (browns), Filco Tenkeyless (blues), 10 Dells with black alps, Rubber dome: IBM SK8820, Fujitsu-Siemens Butterfly, Scissors: Hama SL570, Old stuff: IBM Model C2 (3178 terminal)

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #11 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:52:33 »
I play SC2 at a reasonable level (mid-high Diamond) and I find I love my Blues for playing on. The click they give and the sound they make lets you know you hit that key each time, regardless of what you are looking at on screen. On the flip side, I don't have experience with Browns yet, but compared to Blacks, I have to say I prefer the Blues still.

Also, consider the Filco keyboards. They come in black, have several switch options, and a Tenkeyless version as well if you want something a bit more LAN/Tourney friendly in the space department.
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
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Offline Fwiffo

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« Reply #12 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:59:04 »
The Deck keyboards use clear switches which are actually fairly similar to browns.
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Offline keyb_gr

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:28:11 »
Quote from: Fwiffo;244019
The Deck keyboards use clear switches which are actually fairly similar to browns.

Actually only a few of their models come with clears, most have blacks.

Anyway, it seems RTS games don't have significantly different demands compared to typing. So basically anything with good precision would work, starting with BS and blues and continuing with browns and clears, depending on preferred force and noise levels.

General note for n00bs: Study the wiki.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline hfcobra

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:48:33 »
thanks, what does BS stand for with the blues?   and i am reading the wiki right now, thanks for bringing it up, did not think that different keyboards would actually be listed there.  Like i said though, if anyone knows of Brown switch keyboards that are back lit at all, let me know please.  I still cant find one   :(  any color at this point lol
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline hfcobra

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« Reply #15 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:12:27 »
ok, so i have read the wiki about switches and looked at some of the keyboards and I'm sorry to say but i still have some questions for you anyone looking at this thread.  Since i cannot seem to find a backlit keyboard with brown switches i will get one with blue switches. I am worried that it might be too loud and was wondering how easy is it to sell it on the classifieds section of Geekhack?

EDIT: if you have a good way of saying how loud a blue switch is let me know, i have no idea what LOUD means when talking about keyboard clicks.  I have had a logitech for a long time and i havent liked it since day 1, it feels too squishy and the keys seem a little too hard to press compared to my last keyboard.  (i got with my win98 a loooong time ago)
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:21:00 by hfcobra »
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline Azuremen

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:44:00 »
They are notably loud - my room mate can hear me across the house sometimes if I am bottoming out a lot.

There are some audio clips I believe in the Wiki, all done with the same recording equipment, that can give  you a good idea of how they sound compared to other switches.
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 07:26:17 »
They are reportedly louder than an IBM buckling spring, which has been compared to a machine gun. Reportedly, the pitch is also quite high. I don't know because I've never had one. But I have an IBM and if blue Cherries are louder than this, then they are definitely not the kind of keyboard your open space buddies would love you for bringing to work.
IBM Model M 1391406 (Lexmark \'93), Mech: Cherry G80-11900 (blacks), Compaq-branded Cherry G80 (browns), Filco Tenkeyless (blues), 10 Dells with black alps, Rubber dome: IBM SK8820, Fujitsu-Siemens Butterfly, Scissors: Hama SL570, Old stuff: IBM Model C2 (3178 terminal)

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #18 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 07:44:49 »
Look for ripster's epic sound sample post in the audio forum.  He has a ton of switches recorded using the same setup, so you can get an accurate comparison of how loud, high-pitched, etc. each switch is.  IMO, blue Cherrys have about the same loudness as BS, but they are higher-pitched and plasticky-sounding.  I don't like them, but many others do.


Offline CodeChef

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« Reply #19 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 08:17:13 »
Just BTW, the best SC player in the world right now, Fruit Dealer (aka Cool) uses a Filco Zero which has white simplified alps switches (Fukkas). Many top GSL players are using Filcos with either Cherry Blue or Browns. When I get my keyboard (and I do play SC2 quite a lot) I'm probably going with a Tenkeyless Filco Brown.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #20 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 08:20:11 »
Mmm... Cherry browns.  I'm rolling with the G80-1863 today.


Offline Fwiffo

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« Reply #21 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 08:21:57 »
BS = buckling spring. It's the older clicky switch technology used in Model M keyboards.
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Offline hfcobra

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 11:29:09 »
ah thanks for the extra replies, i have herd the sound thread already, 2 of them actually.  Thanks for mentioning them though, i went with the blues and i think ill try out a cheaper mx brown board if i can find one on the classifieds, if i can find the classifieds   XD
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline hfcobra

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 12:23:40 »
thanks a lot, i went with the iOne Xarmor U9BL for the keyboard, but i would still very much like to try out the browns, do they make a cheap brown keyboard i can try?  I have looked a little but to no avail and i have to leave for work now.
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline BlueRain

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 12:55:07 »
I'm asking the local store to stock the U9BL since it's on 'backorder'. Let me know how you like the board.

Quote from: hfcobra;244310
thanks a lot, i went with the iOne Xarmor U9BL for the keyboard, but i would still very much like to try out the browns, do they make a cheap brown keyboard i can try?  I have looked a little but to no avail and i have to leave for work now.

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #25 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 14:01:25 »
Quote from: ripster;244306
I think you'll find Blues aren't as loud as the Cherry Brown folks say they are.

It depends on how the board is constructed. My G80 with blues will also make quite a racket when the back feet are extended, I guess the PCB is partly floating then and rattles. It's more civilized when flat.
Quote from: ripster;244306
In general ALL mechanical keyboards are much louder than your standard rubber dome.

Which is not to say that rubber domes would be all that quiet, certainly not when hammered on. If a quiet mechanical board is desired, one can stll get a Topre. Some top-out noise will be unavoidable since having a non-zero initial force is pretty much required if the board is not supposed to feel mushy.

In a similar kind of tradeoff, the most precise and sharp tactility tends to come in clicky switches.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline keyboardlover

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 14:17:35 »
Quote from: ripster

In general ALL mechanical keyboards are much louder than your standard rubber dome.


I would say Realforce is an exception. I'm using one at work now and it's much quieter than my previous KeyTronic. I've gotten some compliments already as well :D

Offline hfcobra

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« Reply #27 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 22:34:23 »
Quote from: BlueRain;244322
I'm asking the local store to stock the U9BL since it's on 'backorder'. Let me know how you like the board.


i will when it arrives, however i have not used a mech board in a long time so my review will be like a review done be someone who has never used a mech keyboard before.  The keyboard will be here friday.
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #28 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 23:50:05 »
Quote from: CodeChef;244188
Just BTW, the best SC player in the world right now, Fruit Dealer (aka Cool) uses a Filco Zero which has white simplified alps switches (Fukkas). Many top GSL players are using Filcos with either Cherry Blue or Browns. When I get my keyboard (and I do play SC2 quite a lot) I'm probably going with a Tenkeyless Filco Brown.


FruitDealer got beat by a Terran that only knows how to make Marines and Medivacs. He is not longer the best player in the world... I'd say NesTea is probably the best Zerg in the world at the moment; the guy is simply beast, 4:0 against Slayers_BoxeR.
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
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Offline hfcobra

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« Reply #29 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 23:54:54 »
Quote from: Azuremen;244518
FruitDealer got beat by a Terran that only knows how to make Marines and Medivacs. He is not longer the best player in the world... I'd say NesTea is probably the best Zerg in the world at the moment; the guy is simply beast, 4:0 against Slayers_BoxeR.


LOL i wish i could believe that but FruitDealer is my hero!   was it in a tourney?  Cause i know he likes to fool around a lot when he just plays online, to try new stuff out ya know?
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #30 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 01:20:54 »
Quote from: hfcobra;244521
LOL i wish i could believe that but FruitDealer is my hero!   was it in a tourney?  Cause i know he likes to fool around a lot when he just plays online, to try new stuff out ya know?


GSL Season 2, Ro32. BoxeR(fake) just used Marine Medivac with constant pressure.

Finals are this week...
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
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Offline zefrer

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« Reply #31 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 09:12:52 »
'Twas indeed a sad day when FruitDealer lost so early on.

Offline hfcobra

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« Reply #32 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 12:35:26 »
wow, maybe he just wasn't ready for the very risky strategy?   just marines and medics can be beaten with banelings and Roaches no problem.   I'm baffled as to how he lost!
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline Azuremen

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 18:27:19 »
Quote from: hfcobra;244655
wow, maybe he just wasn't ready for the very risky strategy?   just marines and medics can be beaten with banelings and Roaches no problem.   I'm baffled as to how he lost!


Go watch the games. BoxeR (FoxeR) is in the finals. He crushes Banelings with Marines and Medivacs. And Roaches.
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
Flickr

Offline hfcobra

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Help me with keyboards?
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 18:30:12 »
where do i watch these videos anyways?   I only watch HD starcraft right now   :(
Own/Love: REɅLFORCE 87UB EK Edition 45g

Have owned/used: Realforce 103-UB, XArmor U9BL, Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry MX Blues, Browns, and Reds, Steelseries 6gv2, Leopold with Browns

Offline Fwiffo

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« Reply #35 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 18:33:43 »
That marine spreading micro was crazy sick. You can watch it at gomtv.net.
You can call me... Keyboard Otaku... or not quite...