Model M recommendations

[ThinkRob]

I'd like to enlist GeekHack's help in selecting some keyboards to try.

I type a lot.  I usually code for 8-12 hours/day, and when you add on
personal correspondence, reports, etc. to that, I end up spending a good
chunk of my day at a keyboard.

It goes without saying, then, that having a good keyboard is important
to me.  For laptops, I have ThinkPads, whose keyboards I love -- but at
my desk I lack a good solution.  My primary desktop is an
Intellistation, and in keeping with both the classic UNIX workstation
feel and the IBM brand, I'd like the keyboard to be a Model M.  (I've
had Model Ms in the past and loved them, but no longer have a working
one.)

And therein lies the rub.  Which one do I pick?

Well if something's worth doing, it's worth doing right -- so I'd like
to find the best Model M that I can.  I'd like to try out the various
Model Ms that I can get my hands on, and see if I can find my "perfect
keyboard".  

Here are the criteria:

1) No intergrated pointing device.  I love TrackPoints on my laptops,
but neither need nor want a TrackPoint/trackball on my workstation's
keyboard.

2) No Unicomp.  They're already on my list of keyboards to try.  Plus,
it's pretty easy to sift through the options since they don't seem to
have nearly as many variations as IBM/Lexmark did.

3) Must be the "classic" Model M form-factor (i.e. numpad, all normal
keys.)  US layout only.  (Model Fs would be fine too, but I was under
the impression that they were difficult to get working with modern
machines.)

4) I must be able to use it with a computer with a PS/2 port, either
natively or via an adapter.  I don't want to use USB.

5) Must not be too costly (i.e. definitely under 100 USD shipped).  I'm
willing to spend money trying out/collecting various keyboards, but I'd
rather not blow it all on a few rare keyboards.  Cheaper is better. :D

So, with all that, any recommendations for Model Ms that I should try?

[kill will]

I would search ebay for IBM Model M 1391401.  You can't go wrong with that board.  I would look for someone who refurbishes the board.  That should fit your needs.

[theferenc]

I got my '1401 from c4ktxcomp. Supports a good cause, and it showed up practically NIB. Cleanest keyboard, by far, of any used board I've ever purchased.

After I bought the board from them, I simply put in a request for the 1401, and that's what showed up at my door.

Downside: it was $40, shipped. So maybe more than you want to spend, but as far as I can tell, not a single broken rivet (no rattling), 2 piece keys, and clean as a whistle.

[kidchunks]

Bought one, never had a blue label and I feel this one is safer to use at work. People are scoping out my grey label <_<

[Mikecase00]

Your criteria for full 101 key layout, no integrated pointing device, and priced under $100 limit the number of choices for a model M considerably.  As recommended above the classic 1391401 is the reference standard here, and they're easily found on ebay for less than $50 still.  If you're lucky you may be able to find a 1390131.  This is the older AT style M, which is reputed to have firmer key feel than the 1401, but you'll need an AT>PS/2 adapter to use it.  Beyond that you're only remaining choices are the Industrial versions (which are just 1401/0131s with grayish cases) and the Lexmark made versions.

Please note that most of the M keyboards you're likely to try are 20ish years old.  There can be some noticeable variation in typing firmness and sound between these boards.  Each of my current M's has a slightly different feel.  I suspect this is due to age and usage patterns.

[ThinkRob]

Thanks for the responses thus far.

A couple follow-ups regarding the 1391401:

1) Is there any appreciable difference between the years?  (Specifically are there any design/build differences?  I realize that older boards may be likely to vary in terms of feel.)

2) Is there any difference (other than the color) between the grey and blue labels?

And $40 is perfectly fine, price-wise.  I've already placed an order for a 1391401 from c4ktxcomp.

Any other models to look for?

[Pylon]

Thanks for the responses thus far.

A couple follow-ups regarding the 1391401:

1) Is there any appreciable difference between the years?  (Specifically are there any design/build differences?  I realize that older boards may be likely to vary in terms of feel.)

2) Is there any difference (other than the color) between the grey and blue labels?

The earlier years ('87-88 or maybe) had stabilizers under the 0, enter, etc. keys.

I think from 92 or 93 onward, they had drainage channels installed.

[MissileMike]

I'd go the other way and recommend a 42H1292...  They're newer and can often be found in good condition with few or no broken rivets.  Occasionally, you can even find them brand new for under 100$.  Some purists feel like the 1401 types better, and while they do sound slightly different, I love typing on the 42H.

[theferenc]

...
And $40 is perfectly fine, price-wise.  I've already placed an order for a 1391401 from c4ktxcomp.

Hopefully they still have them. And hopefully in the same condition as the one I got.

When I ordered it a few weeks ago, they had "several" according to Jesse, who seemed to be their email contact.

[jpc]

A couple follow-ups regarding the 1391401:

1) Is there any appreciable difference between the years?
2) Is there any difference (other than the color) between the grey and blue labels?

Year of manufacture doesn't make that much difference. Condition of the particular unit you get can make a big difference. I have totally sweet Model Ms from 1987, 1996, and 2010. I have seen pretty well trashed Model Ms from a range of years also.

How do they get trashed? I don't know. A Model M can stand up to almost any amount of normal use without degrading much in feel or function. The keys will pick up a lapidary quality after a decade or two but it'll still be a pleasure to use.

Sometimes you get ones from ebay that appear to have been dropped off a building, cooked in an oven, immersed in cola, or generally made into the subject of someone's science experiment. Caveat emptor.

[jpc]

2) Is there any difference (other than the color) between the grey and blue labels?

To contradict myself...

Later boards used thinner and lighter metal plates, which affects the sound of the board.

The sound can be important. I had a 1996 42H with a particularly flimsy metal plate, and it was tinnier and pingier than any other M in the collection, enough that it bothered me a little bit. I bolt modded it and replaced the plate with a thicker one. The result sounds more muted and is an absolute pleasure to type on.

[clickclack]

ThinkRob-

Lets see if I can offer my input using your numbered points...

1) That's not a problem, none of those are really known for better quality or feel anyway.

2) Understood, but don't let that take away from the choices, they are great in their own right (although not strictly an IBM look).

3) I would stick with an M over an F for the following reasons:
- They are a spot on replacement (layout wise) over what you and others are accustomed to.
- The key feel is wonderful on both, but the M feels more refined. (the F is excellent, just a bit different)
- If you are looking into variations (since you mention greater choices) there are more of them on the M boards and very few for the F
- A good M is usually much cheaper than a good F
- If you don't need an adapter for the M if using PS2 (not a big deal imho though)

4) No problem there unless you happen to request the USB version from unicomp (which we know you're not going to do)

5) This should be easy, the bay is your friend regarding used Ms.
I have had great luck and bad luck, but on the whole I have had excellent results from $5-$30. I even have had a few freebies that are darn near perfect!

I would recomend anything in the late 80's to very early 90's. Sound vague?
I say this because they are more common and cheaper (price wise).
Key feel and sound will be in general very, very similar. You may not even notice difference between years or even between wear sometimes.
Out of the 40 or so Ms that I have tried I don't think I have hated or dissliked one that didn't have a major flaw (damage/wear).

Not much difference

In general I would definately have to agree!

Year of manufacture doesn't make that much difference...

Indeed, until you are a keyboard snob (if you even want to go that route, haahaa) you are splitting hairs at best. Construction changed a teeny bit, weights a teeny bit, and looks a tiny bit. I kinda dig the spec of blue on the blue labeled one.

If you were curious though,
I love my beige label 07AUG91  (smoother and quieter slightly)
and my
blue label 05-01-1993  (slightly sharper and more loud)
Mind you they are hardly, hardly different and who knows how much their differences are from age, wear, or tooling changes.

I would honestly just look for what seems to be a good condition board for the right price and get straight to enjoying!

Hope some of that post helped =)

[ch_123]

I'd go the other way and recommend a 42H1292...  They're newer and can often be found in good condition with few or no broken rivets.  Occasionally, you can even find them brand new for under 100$.  Some purists feel like the 1401 types better, and while they do sound slightly different, I love typing on the 42H.

You do realize that the Unicomp Customizer is just a 42H1292 with a Unicomp logo, right?

The 42H's have a thinner plate than the 1391401s?

You sure about that? I have a micrometer now but haven't measured since the Unicomp=42H felt and looked the same and the keyboard weight measurements I've seen are pretty much the same.

Now the REALLY OLD ones without LEDs were heavier so I assume the plate is thicker.

Yes. Things like the 42H1292 and some of the later M13s are about 2.0Kg vs. 2.2kg for the late 80s/early 90s Model Ms.

In fact, I remember someone who had a Unicomp from the mid 2000s and the same model from last year, and the former was heavier than the latter. Unicomp may have reduced the thickness or changed the material again.

[clickclack]

tl;dr???
I keep seeing that on this forum, ok what does that mean already?!?!?!

Edit:nevermind (facepalm) just looked it up =(

Edit part deux:Just read your other post above! Many lawlz!

Edit part 3: haahaa, just read your post below! XD

Edit part 4: ROTFLMAO! I just read your edit below! haahaaahaa

[ch_123]

1) Is there any appreciable difference between the years?  (Specifically are there any design/build differences?  I realize that older boards may be likely to vary in terms of feel.)

In general terms, the keyboards got lighter, and the keys got less stiff.

2) Is there any difference (other than the color) between the grey and blue labels?

Yes, but for the most part it's stuff that has no bearing on the typing quality of the keyboard. That said, ones from 92 onwards have drainage channels (except for the ones made in the UK) and ones from the late 80s onwards got rid of the stabilizer bars on large keys. Earlier ones had some large keys with no stabilizers, but they had a tendency to get stuck easily.

[ch_123]

- The key feel is wonderful on both, but the M feels more refined. (the F is excellent, just a bit different)

I'm pretty sure most people who've tried both will say it's the other way around, but oh well...

[msiegel]

- The key feel is wonderful on both, but the M feels more refined. (the F is excellent, just a bit different)

I'm pretty sure most people who've tried both will say it's the other way around

+1... if by "refined" you mean "better"

[Pylon]

Also, from what others said and a little bit of personal experience, Model Ms vary a lot from individual to individual. It depends on the amount of use, number of rivets remaining, etc. I previously owned a '86 1390131 (sold to jpc) and it felt much different than my '93 1398601 (pretty much identical to 1391401, pending sale). The '93 felt better in my opinion.

[ThinkRob]

You guys rock.  Thanks for providing me with a wealth of information.

Since I've got a 1391401 on the way, I'm going to search for a good condition 1390131 to which to compare it.

[ch_123]

A 1390131 is going to be pretty much the same thing as your 1391401. If the 1390131 was made early (86 or 87) it might be a bit heavier, and it might be a bit stiffer. Then again, you're far more likely to get one where the spring wear has destroyed the stiffness and made it mushy. Then there's the whole rivet issue.

[KillerBee]

1390131 bah who needs leds get a 120 instead

[ThinkRob]

Ok, well I'll only get a 131 if the price is exceptionally low.

I'm thinking about getting a 42H for comparison's sake.  What would be a fair price for a like-new or refurbished board?

[theferenc]

Considering that's basically what unicomp sells these days, I wouldn't go over $69, NIB.

[MissileMike]

You do realize that the Unicomp Customizer is just a 42H1292 with a Unicomp logo, right?

Yes, I am aware.  I have several of both.  While their design is identical, the 42H is definitely made from a different plastic.  You can also pick up a 42H for less than a customizer.

Of all M's, I prefer the space saver.  I would love to try a unicomp spacesaver, though.

[PRISONER 24601]

My ill-informed advice:
They're all good except for the 42H series and the 7-something with rubber domes.

My most important factor in picking a Model M: Try to get something as new and unused as possible. Best indicator is wear on the PBT keycaps. Look at the Spacbar, Enter, and Backspace keys and check for wear. They don't get shiny and smooth like ABS, but a sharp eye should be able to distinguish a worn key from a newer key.

That's just my two cents. Oh, and if you wanna be l33t try to find the 1395300, 1390131, 1390120, and Greenrock models. If you want to be REALLY l33t you should find a NIB Industrial Mini at some garage sale.