Midi Synthesizers

[Jerri]

Thought that would be geeky enough for the geeky stuff. Does anybody use a Hardware Midi Synthesizer or something like a hardware synthesis on the Soundcard; or the famous Wavetable Upgrade Daughter Boards for the Soundblaster 16?

I use an external Synthesizer for my Midi playback, especially for old DOS Games, because i can't stand those farting like noises you get from OPL-2 or OPL-3. And the Soundfont Banks aren't great either for those old Midi days.

So i bought an old Roland SC-55 II about a half year ago, which sounds almost like back in the day, when i used the Soundblaster 16 with a Roland SCD-15 Daughter Board. Personally i liked them much more than the Soundblaster AWE32 of my dad.

Here is a testrun :
Klick the Hyperlink!

Maybe i'll buy an old Roland SC-88, too!

Jerri

[godly_music]

X-Fi apparently can do some stuff with Midi but I haven't figured out anything about it. Instead, I use foobar2000's FluidSynth plugin with the GeneralUser GS soundfont bank. It's kind of the opposite of nostalgic, I just want my midi files to sound good.

[NamelessPFG]

Aren't those all just wavetable boards, compared to something like the Roland MT-32/CM-32L/LAPC-I that actually IS a synthesizer? (Supposedly, a real MT-32 on a game that supports it but not the later wavetable MIDI cards won't turn the sound effects into piano keys and crap like that.)

Still, they sound a hell of a lot better than FM synth. (For DOS cards, I only have a Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold. The later Sound Blaster Live! Value and Turtle Beach Montego II (Aureal Vortex2) are more like Win9x cards if you ask me. Still need a Gravis Ultrasound and one of the aforementioned Roland LA synthesizers to round out my DOS sound device collection.)

[Jerri]

Yeah right, something like the GS User font or the standard X-Fi Sounds sounds much better than the standard FM Synth.
But the Windows GS Standard Synth sounds like a broken SC-55 synth without the effects (for example Reverb and Chorus). I think the GS Soundfont is the best way to go without an external Synth. For me it's easy to use a synth, because my X-Fi has native Midi in/Out.

Maybe i buy a MT-32; the Roland SC-55 in the MT-32 Mode is good, but the real one sounds better in my opionion, the SC-55 is there a bit "stiff" soundwise.
The Reason why i would like to try an SC-88 is, because some people say the synths have a similar vibe like the SC-55, just in a higher Resolution and the SC-55 map should be usable.

So maybe i end up with that:
Roland SC-88 for GM, Roland SC-88 @ SC-55 Map in GS and a real MT-32 for the MT-32/LAPC games.
If the SC-88 isn't what i expect, i always can switch back to the SC-55 II

[ricercar]

I have a Yamaha general midi sound box that I use sometimes, but mostly I use two old FB-01 FM synthesizers from the mid-80s.

[typo]

the sc-55 is old. edirol had newer stuff already years ago. hook it up to a yamaha motif rack and be blown away! i still use a yamaha duaghter board sometimes. fm like the dx7 still sounds nice in some genres.

[Jerri]

Yeah i know, i had a Edirol SC-8820 when it was new, but i use them for old Dos Games and the 8820 hadn't the right sound for that. Of course much more realistic then the SC-55. Maybe i find a SC-88 on Ebay (should have a similar "synthetic vibe" like the 55, but with higher quality samples).

For realistic sounds or keyboard like "musical usage" i prefer the yamaha keyboard of a friend over the SC-55. But on the other side i think some old Synthies got some nice sounds, that newer ones don't have.

[typo]

i have a sc88 mkii. it sounds a lot better than the sc-55. it is not what you are looking for. it is not synthy sounding. it sounds pretty realistic for the time. old keys still sound very nice sometimes. they just don't sound anything like real instruments. thats why music from the 70's and 80's sound the way it does. some of us still listen to that music regularly. i would not consider certain old keys obsolete. just retro. if your friend has a motif, that is pretty much the top synth now. most people can not tell it from real instruments. roland has a flagship synth too but i always preffered yamaha. anyways, you would have to be a pretty hard core gamer to use a $3,500 synth for midi lol. i have all that stuff because i still make music sometimes. i never got away from it i just don't do it as a carrer anymore.

i think your best bet would be a yamaha xg dauchterboard if you can find one. not the pro one though. i know what you mean though. pac-man on a modern synth just is not right.

[Jerri]

"MKII" , what do you mean with MKII ? do you mean the "Pro version" (the SC-88 with the orange lettering)? I meant the normal SC-88.

I wonder, if that youtube video SC-88 is the native map or the SC-55 map on the 88?
Klick this link please!
My SC-55 sounds a bit different, but lets say 90-95% like that, when i start kingsquest6. The 88 has a bit more dynamic and "attitude".

Musicwise i'm more into electric guitar than into keyboards (look in the musician Thread) .

[typo]

yes. mine is a sc88 pro mkii with the orange lettering.

[Jerri]

Yeah i know that Expansion Box. When my information is right the SC-88 was the last with this kinda heavy synthetical "80s style reverb" and Samples like the SC-55 in higher quality (because of more onboard ram) and the SC-88 Pro was the first one, that has gone the "as natural as possible" way. Also i heard that the 88 Pro had great insertion effects, which the normal SC-88 didn't had.

Oh boy almost nobody uses Synthies anymore, that's a pitty . Ok the other question is why, if you aren't a musician. Today there's almost nothing in midi :-/

[typo]

i don't know, remember "mod" files and the gravis ultrasound(gus)? that was like the first real computer soundcard that used samples i think.

i was a pro musician so i still have all that stuff. plus i got some new stuff like the motif because i still enjoy to play. the old stuff still has it's place though imo. a nice fm synth like the dx7 has a nice sound for the right music.

i do not know why the few games now that use midi use the ms(roland) soft synth. it sucks.

[Jerri]

Because then you don't need OPL 3 emulation . Ok kinda joke, i know what you mean. The MS soft synth sounds like a dry SC-55.... like a dry broken SC-55!

[EverythingIBM]

Why didn't I see this thread before?

OPL-3 actually has a LOT more than just mere "farting" noises, it has one of the best drum sets in my opinion (especially those hi-hats and crashes, I almost can hear a triangle wave in the hi-hats, love it). Good bass as far as FM synthesis goes.

I'm now using my AWE64 for most of my DOS games, GREAT compatibility with all of them I should add: but I have it still routed so I can use my lovely Crystal FM Synthesis (a modified version of OPL-3, I think it's better actually, you can see one of the commenters in the video above theorize this).

Also, Bobby Prince composed a lot of his tunes specifically for FM synthesis. I find running certain midis with things like AWE64 to sound weird. It's also worth mentioning that a lot of DOS games used a special form of MIDI card detection: so it would change the instruments based on what would sound better for that particular card.
This is why when you get midis from http://mirsoft.info, they often sound different in-game: I've experienced this with the Hexen I midis. They sound AWESOME in OPL3 I should add.
Here's an example of a modern rendition of a hexen track:

If you listen right at 1 minute in the music, you'll notice the supporting grungy bass is lacking... whereas in OPL3 you'd hear it mix well with the horns.
I should actually record and upload a proper version of that song later to youtube... Kevin Shilder composed those of course.

Typically though, if you want the best sounds for midi files, I'd suggest a JV-1080. That thing can make midis sound awesome. You just hit "shift" then "perform", and it'll perform general midi. However, a certain phenomenon I noticed is that the JV keeps old parameters from different midi files, it doesn't refresh (meaning there can sometimes be excess reverb, or no reverb when there SHOULD be)... so... you either have to refresh it by powering it on again, or reset performance mode.

EDIT: forgot to add, Roland is my favourite for music stuff too.

[typo]

i think opl-3 is one operator. it is the proper thing to play back the dos games. as far as music production i think the dx7 was 4 and 8 operator. then in the mid nineties they had a couple different modules with fm. one had 8 dx7's in a half rack space and one had 16 operator used with a ewie flute. i am not sure if these are in my inventory now. then came the evolution of physical modeling.
i think i have a jv5080 or something somewhere. the current flagship synths are backwards compatable to a point. either the fantom or motif bring together the current epitome of technologies all in one box. of course there were niche synths like the emu morpheous. i still use a asr10 because the technology at that time had by accident giving everything a rock 'n roll feeling. i usually pair vintage synths with effects and get some pretty cool stuff. the dp4 and zoom 9050 i highly recommend. of course this was about dos games not music production. now, given a good enough computer everything is purely software vsti's. it is amazing what can be done when i am coming from the very first personal computers and synthesizers ever made. so i don't see why you could not have software opl-3 which otherwise would not run in win7/2008 with an isa card. that would be hardly any overhead given what they can do now.

of course you can run old machines with old os's. i just would not connect them to the internet for safety.

[EverythingIBM]

i think opl-3 is one operator. it is the proper thing to play back the dos games. as far as music production i think the dx7 was 4 and 8 operator. then in the mid nineties they had a couple different modules with fm. one had 8 dx7's in a half rack space and one had 16 operator used with a ewie flute. i am not sure if these are in my inventory now. then came the evolution of physical modeling.
i think i have a jv5080 or something somewhere. the current flagship synths are backwards compatable to a point. either the fantom or motif bring together the current epitome of technologies all in one box. of course there were niche synths like the emu morpheous. i still use a asr10 because the technology at that time had by accident giving everything a rock 'n roll feeling. i usually pair vintage synths with effects and get some pretty cool stuff. the dp4 and zoom 9050 i highly recommend. of course this was about dos games not music production. now, given a good enough computer everything is purely software vsti's. it is amazing what can be done when i am coming from the very first personal computers and synthesizers ever made. so i don't see why you could not have software opl-3 which otherwise would not run in win7/2008 with an isa card. that would be hardly any overhead given what they can do now.

of course you can run old machines with old os's. i just would not connect them to the internet for safety.

Generally I'm shifting away from software VSTi stuff. Convenient & virtual... but in most cases, lacking punch, unless being a sampler. After using my JUNO-60, I seriously laugh at all the virtual analogue VSTi stuff coming out. I never used to doubt virtual analogue, but after a few tests to see what this "JUNO-60" could do, I was surprised. The quality is amazing... and you can get some nice blaring strings, C64 style stuff, or great bass. It's actually surprising how well my sub-woofer responds to the JUNO-60, it truly does have good bass.

I'd never want a crystal FM synthesis emulator, yuck! And on that note, DOS games require ISA cards. And forget about emulating DOS games... emulators fail miserably. They run slow, don't have the same hardware options... and also leaves you out in the dark when it comes to windows 9x games that can run on NT. I've tortured myself with DOS Box for at least 7 years before just going back to the real deal.

I run my old computer on the internet all the time. If anything, it's perfectly safe being archaic and lacking NSA_KEY. Plus I do not go on any bad sites or torrents.
If anything, I'd probably say it's more secure than the stuff out today.

[typo]

i'll give you that. vsti's cannot match many real analogue synths. even the fantom or motif are a better way to spend money than get some vsti's.

[quadibloc]

Not being a serious musician, but merely playing with music on my computer, I've stuck to software stuff.

A while back, I downloaded and installed the LMMS sequencer. Recently, I tried some free VST plugins that simulated a Hammond organ on it, after my curiosity was piqued by a free standalone program called MidiTzer which simulates a theater-style pipe organ.

For just playing General MIDI files, though, even my browser is probably better than using LMMS, even if it gives me a choice of soundfont. But even simpler is MAM Player. Synthesia has a higher-quality built-in soundfont, but it sometimes can't keep up with more complex MIDI files (being a program with rich graphics mainly intended to teach people to play the piano).

MidiTzer uses MIDI files, but they don't conform to the General MIDI convention - its native MIDI files use one channel per manual, and use channel change commands to change the stops. It's designed to facilitate hooking up MIDI keyboards to your PC to create an instrument that plays like a theater organ.

I also learned about a commercial software product which does something of interest: Synful Orchestra simulates acoustic instruments not just with samples, but by calculating the sound to handle cases like a trombone moving from one note to the next, or (perhaps) the damper pedal on a piano. This, of course, reminds me of the technology Yamaha introduced in the Tyros 2.