Is the Customizer worth buying?

[George7]

Hello everyone! I've been after a mechanical board for quite a while now, since finding and using an old Dell AT102W at work, I've been trawling Ebay for a good board ever since. I've kind of given up finding a good deal now, and as my Logitech Wave continues to fall into an increasingly worse state of disrepair, I'm getting more and more desperate.

I checked out the Customizer on their Website today and worked out that a black and grey board with shipping to the UK would set me back 80 quid. That's a hell of a lot for a keyboard, but, hopefully it would last me several years. At my present rate, I'm getting through a keyboard a year and want something that's not only great to type on, but something that also lasts a while. Just wondered if this particular board was worth 80 quid?

Also, what other mechanical boards are available in the UK for a relatively decent price?

Thanks all!

[theferenc]

Short answer: Yes!

Longer answer: it is totally worth it. It will easily last several years unless you abuse it. Keep in mind, it's the continuation of the Model M, which are often still in use, sometimes over 20 years after production.

I have one, and it's probably tied for my favorite keyboard with my HHKB. To give it a little more perspective, I wore out 4 keyboards over the course of 2 years, with a 5th starting to act flaky. My Customizer, on the other hand, is built with a similar feel to an M1 Abrams.

To quote Tolkien: "My precious! I loves it!"

Also, welcome to geekhack!

Edit: Oh, and a possible issue if you have cats: it seems they love to sleep on them. No idea why, but I've heard from several other geekhackers that their cats also love laying on their buckling spring keyboards.

[MFGorilla]

The spacesave is a good option, too.  Same keys in a slightly smaller case and footprint.  Can't really go wrong with either.

[bigpook]

The Unicomps are good keyboards. I actually prefer the keyfeel of the Unicomp over the IBM Model M's. I would be impressed if you were to wear one of them out.

[ch_123]

Welcome to Geekhack!

Have you checked the WW Buying Guide Sticky under UK yet?  I thought the blue cherry G80-3000 for 60 pounds was a good deal.

I hear Logitechs are only 10 pounds. Surely an even better bargain, amirite?

@OP: Yes, definitely.

[George7]

Thanks everyone! I'll probably end up going for the Customizer. It looks a bit mad with the grey keys and black body, but I think that's actually quite a good thing in a way; very unusual! It's an expensive keyboard and costs a lot of money to get it to England, but as it would hopefully last me 5 years and beyond, it'd be more than worth it. I've been going through a keyboard a year for a little while now. My Wave is really showing its age!

The G80 looks very tempting also. My preference is an all black board so it meets that criteria. Would the G80 feel similar to the AT102W? I have a feeling I'd regret not going for the Customizer at 20 pounds more though

P.S - A quid is indeed a pound

[Oqsy]

Is the Customizer worth buying?

Yes.

[MissileMike]

You should really look at the unicomp spacesaver.  It has the same key feel and layout, but with a smaller footprint.

[George7]

I'll definitely also consider the space saver too. The only difference is the size of the casing? Everything else feels identical?

You getting it in the UK layout?  How much was shipping?

Yeah, UK layout. Shipping was something like $50 but I may have done it wrong. I left it on the default option.

[kill will]

For me, if i want an original style, i would go with a model m

If you go Unicomp, you might as well get the space saver.  It does save a few inches and just goes better with the usb and black silver look imo

[bugfix]

It's great. Looks kinda cheap when you unbox it, but you'll love it as soon you begin to type...

[Aim Here]

I'll definitely also consider the space saver too. The only difference is the size of the casing? Everything else feels identical?

Yeah, UK layout. Shipping was something like $50 but I may have done it wrong. I left it on the default option.

Remember that shipping these keyboards to the UK also incurs import duty, and you'll get some mail after the event demanding yet more money, to give to the government. When I bought my Unicomps, it came to something like £17 or so.

[iMav]

I have ordered keyboards for EU members and have sent them over marked as "gifts" with low value on the customs form.  Another option is to befriend a US military member if there is a US military installation near you.  Have them order it...no import fees for APO addresses.

[bugfix]

I just noticed that the price for the Customizer and the SpaceSaver actually increased since I ordered it on Jan 5th.

Back then I paid $69 today it's at $79...

[iMav]

I just noticed that the price for the Customizer and the SpaceSaver actually increased since I ordered it on Jan 5th.

Back then I paid $69 today it's at $79...

I didn't realize Unicomp staff knew how to update their website.  

:boink:

[bugfix]

I didn't realize Unicomp staff knew how to update their website.  

Perhaps they'll invest the additional income in a decent webshop...

[theferenc]

Not likely, that. I think they like the old page.

[George7]

Remember that shipping these keyboards to the UK also incurs import duty, and you'll get some mail after the event demanding yet more money, to give to the government. When I bought my Unicomps, it came to something like £17 or so.

How much do you reckon it would cost me to get a single Spacesaver to the UK, cheapest shipping options etc?

I'm also very interested in the G80. One like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cherry-G80-3000-Wired-Professional-Keyboard-G-/160527680195?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_KeyboardsMice&hash=item25603202c3

I was just wondering what switches it used (think I read that it used MX Reds, but I don't really know how good they are) and if anyone knows how the typing experience would compare to the AT102W (Black Alps switches I think) and indeed the Unicomp boards.

[bugfix]

£ 80.59 + customs.

You should write them an email first, that you've noticed the price increase and that you'd wanted to order earlier but that you're now reconsidering it. Perhaps it'll help and they give you a $10 discount...

I don't know if that's considered too rude in the US/UK but I guess you know that better than i do.

[George7]

If the Customs is around 10 pounds for a single board, the Unicomp may still be my front runner! The G80 still looks good, although I'm more interested in a great typing experience rather than gaming, which I heard the switches in the G80 are preferable for.

What else is available around this price range in the UK?

[bugfix]

The Filcos over at http://keyboardco.com/ aren't that much more expensive...

Edit: By the way, I had a Logitech Wave too before finally converting to mech keyboards.

[bugfix]

In the EU I think there are better options.

Except when you're looking for buckling springs.

[George7]

It doesn't need to be a buckling spring board, it's just something I'd like to try. I just want something that's great to type on and will last me a good few years The Unicomps seem a little bit more desirable to me though as I reckon if I bought one of them, it'd effectively last me at least 5 years I reckon.

[bugfix]

it'd effectively last me at least 5 years I reckon.

Even longer, from what I've heard.

[George7]

At the moment I'm favouring the Customizer Space Saver. It's a bit more interesting than a normal microswitched keyboard, and the durability is a real selling point for me. as my keyboard knackering skills are highly tuned (I'll post a picture of my Wave at some point). The thing putting me off is the fact they're in America so it's a bit of trouble to get one shipped to me. Also, the customs charges are an annoyance. £90+ for a keyboard as well is a lot, and as I've never typed on a Model M before I can't be 100% sure.

[theferenc]

So far, everyone I've handed one of these keyboards to loves it. I've converted my entire lab over to these things, as well as my SO, 2 of my close friends, and most of my family.

These are all people who are of the opinion that "it's just a keyboard". Until I let them try my customizer. Then they change their tune. Personally, I don't see how you can wrong, unless you like a light switch.

And if you do like light switches, just suck up the cost and get a topre. Should last nearly as long as the customizer, if not longer (read: long enough that it would be dollars per month of ownership, likely).

I guess it comes down to, how much do you type in a given day, is your keyboard a pivotal part of your work experience, and how much do you value the feel of the keyboard?

A customizer is an excellent choice, especially if you prefer click, or don't want to spend the money to get a realforce. If you prefer quiet, and money isn't an issue, get the realforce from The Keyboard Company.

In either case, it is money well spent, if only to know your keyboard won't crap out in 6 months to a year.

And yes, I have a bias towards both of these types of keyboards. I dislike the cherry switches. But, as I've said, everyone I've introduced to the Customizer loves it, and ends up with one. Though two people have snagged happy hacker keyboards instead (topre switches).

[quadibloc]

Is a Quid Like a pound or is it part of Quidditch?

It's just an informal name for a pound. So one would say that something costs 20 quid in Britain just like one would say it cost 40 bucks in the States.

I remember back when I was a graduate student, though, that a fellow grad student from Britain actually thought that a guinea was a pound. Actually, 20 guineas are 21 pounds - this ratio comes from an old British one pound coin that had too much gold in it, because of gold mines in Guinea (not Guyana, formerly British Guinea, in South America, but the one in Africa). Stating prices in guineas is a way for certain high-class British businesses to impose a premium on their prices.

So there are aspects of British money that are obscure even to the British. Especially now that they've given shillings and pence the heave-ho.

[bugfix]

So there are aspects of British money that are obscure even to the British. Especially now that they've given shillings and pence the heave-ho.

They should just introduce the Euro already.

[mrsone]

You can't go wrong with the Customizer. I have its little brother/sister the Spacesaver, and I totally love it! I was avoiding clicky keyboards because I primarily use keyboards with my computer when I am working, and I am usually on the phone, so I did not want the customers to hear the clicks. I got the Spacesaver just to try the switch, and now I find myself using it even when I am on the telephone with customers. I know they have to hear the clicking, but so far no one has ever said anything about it. If so, I will just tell them I use an older keyboard for "assistive purposes" and keep going.

The funny thing is for me the buckling springs actually feel lighter than the black alps. I totally think the Customizer is worth it. I am glad I snagged one before the price went up, but I would still get another one for the current price again anyway.

[Cheese101]

They should just introduce the Euro already.

Why introduce a currency that will be dead in 5 years?

[bugfix]

Why introduce a currency that will be dead in 5 years?

lol no

[George7]

It'll be only for home use, so noise isn't really a big issue. This is probably a stupid question, but will the Spacesaver be identical in feel to the larger Customizer? As they're the same price, I'm guessing the Spacesaver is a much better buy? I checked out the Topre, and that's a bit pricey to be honest. I'm still finding it hard to justify 90 pounds (total) on a keyboard!

[bugfix]

Yes, the SpaceSaver should feel exactly as a Customizer.

[George7]

Nice. Not sure which one I prefer the look of at the moment. By the way Bugfix, how would you say the Customizer felt in comparison to your Wave?

[ch_123]

The Logitech Wave is one of the most hideous feeling keyboards I've had the displeasure of typing on. Those Unicomps are miles ahead.

The funny thing is for me the buckling springs actually feel lighter than the black alps.

Black Alps are about 70g, whereas Unicomp buckling spring keyboards are about 65g.

Interestingly, Cherry switches are 10g stiffer at the their stiffest point compared with the stiffness at the point of actuation, which is the usual figure given. In buckling springs, the point of actuation is also the stiffest point. This means that a Unicomp is only 5g stiffer than a Blue Cherry board, not 20g.

[bugfix]

By the way Bugfix, how would you say the Customizer felt in comparison to your Wave?

A difference like night and day.

It's just so much nicer to actually feel every key you press instead of just mashing on "wobbly" and "mushy" buttons.

It took sometime however to forget the calculator and standby button on the Wave because I used those regurlarly.

[George7]

The wave is a very comfortable board for me, but the keys feel extremely crap now. It certainly hasn't worn well. I too use the media buttons a lot, I also use the buttons on the left of the keyboard a fair bit as 'Push to Talk' keys. I'll certainly miss them too. I've nearly decided to go for a Unicomp board. It's just the potential customs charges worrying me at the moment. Also, do they accept Paypal as payment? I don't fully trust their website for entering my card details

[bugfix]

Also, do they accept Paypal as payment? I don't fully trust their website for entering my card details

I wrote them an email about this, got this reply:

Our accounting department is looking into pay pal but currently they are not willing to accept payment by pay pal. There is another alterative, direct wire transfer from your bank to our bank. If you are interested in this let me know.

I used my CC though and I don't think I will have any trouble from that.

Also, should you want to use the Customizer for gaming, you should know that (imho) the "stiffness" of the keys can be a problem especially when you have to hold W down.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:14289

[George7]

I used to play games that used WASD a lot, but not so much recently. I mostly play PC games with a controller or my G25 nowadays so the gaming thing isn't a huge issue. I'll probably just use my debit card, but the website looks so rubbish, it makes me slightly nervous about using it.

[J888www]

:welcome:
A Black SpaceSaver with the white & Grey Keycaps of the Pearl-White SpaceSaver or a Pearl-White SpaceSaver with Black casing would probably be easier to communicate. That's just my personal opinion, others may vary.
ATM, I'm still waiting for Unicomp to produce a Tenkeyless, waiting, waiting, waiting.........................:yawn:

I don't fully trust their website for entering my card details

In my past experiences, Unicomp can be trusted (Full Stop) I always get an impression that they exist for the love of BS keyboards rather than a money-making enterprise, they have always been more than helpful.
 You can always contact them via email and discuss your concerns..........

[gregh]

Unicomp can be trusted. There are a lot of websites that look very old and ugly, but are professionally ran and operated.

[quadibloc]

In my past experiences, Unicomp can be trusted (Full Stop) I always get an impression that they exist for the love of BS keyboards rather than a money-making enterprise, they have always been more than helpful.

I'm sure Unicomp can be trusted. I think that the poster's nervousness might have to do with the site being on "stores.yahoo.com".

Come to think of it, that ties in to your second comment.

I had always assumed that Unicomp mainly existed to serve corporate customers that still recognized the merits of the buckling-spring keyboard for fast and accurate date entry. I drew that conclusion from their product line: 122-key keyboards, 3153 keyboards... but no tenkeyless Space Saving keyboard.

It was a company filling a small niche - since most businesses find the Model M too noisy, especially in these days of cubicles - and so love of the buckling spring keyboard's quality may have played a role, but it wasn't the kind of impractical affection felt by many people here.

But if their market is a corporate one, I'm somewhat surprised that they have licensed keyboards in the colors of football teams (but I assume there's a historical reason there), and I'm surprised that they haven't renewed their domain name to look like a bigger and more impressive company.

[mrsone]

The Logitech Wave is one of the most hideous feeling keyboards I've had the displeasure of typing on. Those Unicomps are miles ahead.



Black Alps are about 70g, whereas Unicomp buckling spring keyboards are about 65g.

Interestingly, Cherry switches are 10g stiffer at the their stiffest point compared with the stiffness at the point of actuation, which is the usual figure given. In buckling springs, the point of actuation is also the stiffest point. This means that a Unicomp is only 5g stiffer than a Blue Cherry board, not 20g.

Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up for me. I also had the Logitech Wave and it was mushy as hell!

[George7]

Does this look like a good deal to you guys?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cherry-G80-3000-Wired-Professional-Keyboard-with-G_W0QQitemZ160527680195QQcategoryZ33965QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6408562075659762291

I think I'd rather have the Customizer/SpaceSaver still, but this is much more convenient and seems to have MX Blues, which I've heard are nice switches; they're certainly doing very well on the switch poll!

[elef]

It's not cheap for sure.
The G80-3000 with a German layout can be had for the equivalent of ~45 pounds all over the web.
UK layout seems to be more expensive, but still, amazon has it for 60 pounds with free shipping.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cherry-Quality-Action-Keyboard-G80-3000LSCGB-2/dp/B0041KJKAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295185112&sr=8-1
Keyboardco also has it for 60, which seems to be the standard price. 45-50 pounds is what I'd call a good deal.

[George7]

The G80 with blues is starting to look better and better. It has a nice standard layout/look, which I much prefer over the glossy look and flashy lights of the Razer Black Widow and the general glossyness of the Das. Cheaper too. Not sure if I'd regret not splashing out on the buckling spring goodness of the Unicomp though. Having never used a buckling spring board before, it's hard to tell.

[keyboardlover]

Solution: buy both! Then sell whichever one you don't like. Both of those keyboards are always in demand.

[George7]

That may not be a bad idea!

I've Emailed Unicomp, asking what the final cost to me (inc customs) will be. Once I have that figure, I can decide accordingly. Very tempted by the Cherry though. Does anyone know how durable it is though? I'm sure it won't be up to the same standards as the Unicomps, but as long as I won't start wearing the letters off the keycaps within a year or two, I'll be happy.

[gregh]

Keyboardlover points out a nice thing about these more expensive mechanical keyboards. You can almost always sell them for fairly close to what they cost new, which is a very nice thing for those of us who like to play with various switches.

[George7]

Yeah that's true. I reckon I'd get an excellent resale price for the Unicomp board here in the UK if I didn't like it.

It's extremely hard to find a buckling spring board in the UK! I wish I knew what they felt like to make my decision easier!