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Offline Phaedrus2129

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Idiot computer teacher
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 01:34:45 »
Quote from: Voixdelion;290595
fascinating progression on this thread, but to address the original rant -  

Phaedrus, what is exactly the goal of the class as stated in the syllabus?  Is the course designed to make one proficient in programming or just to familiarize one with the concept of computers and what they can potentially be used for?  A lot of introductory courses are only designed to introduce very basic concepts such as how to use an application like Word or something, not really as prerequisites for a degree in comp sci, but for ordinary people who would probably have a heart attack if they were ever in a situation to find themselves looking at this:

A:\>

and they would probably freak out thinking they'd broken the machine since that is not a very helpful or inviting line if you don't know what the hell it means.  Such a level of course might only be designed to let people understand that AV exists and why rather than be able to distinguish  between the malware and the real thing.  Those skills would be actual Computer Science type courses, I think, as opposed to Computer Literacy.  There are people who use computers day in and day out that have never seen a dos prompt and probably wouldn't know what to call it if they did, so in that light, maybe she isn't so out of her league as it may seem.  

Surely you could test out of this if this is a requirement, or at least substitute a higher level class that would be more appropriately challenging for your skill set.  It sounds as though it might be more difficult to get through the "easy A" just by having to sit through the class.  =)

As to the problem of teachers who can't teach, this happens because there isn't really a way to find out if someone is a good instructor until they are given the chance to instruct.  We had a couple of science teachers who didn't last too long at my high school because they didn't meet the standards expected of them, though they were probably fine somewhere else where parents weren't spending upwards of 15K a year for their kids to go to high school.  I guess you spend that kind of money and things get taken care of  - My tenth grade Chem teacher didn't even make it past parent's night.  My mom is a biology teacher and she defended him when I first complained that he was an idiot, but after parent's night she had to agree with me.  Next class I was shocked to find we had a new instructor who was MUCH better.  I was very impressed with that kind of response time, to say the least.  


First intelligent post in almost two pages. :)

We were given a syllabus, but I seem to have lost it. That reminds me, she favors giant packets. She's given us at least three packets that were over 10 pages, including the syllabus. She gives you said packet, then puts it on the projector and mumbles through it at a mile a minute, taking about fifteen minutes, gives a blackboard assignment, then wanders around staring vacantly and responding to questions for help with "I can't tell you the answer". Yeah, there's more to it than just incompetency.


Anyway, I don't recall the exact wording of the syllabus, but it was the usual obtuse paragraph that says basically nothing. I know how to read between the lines, and even so all I was receiving was:




What I consider computer literacy:

Knowing the difference between a PC, laptop, netbook, tablet, etc. and their pros and cons
Knowing the various input and output devices a PC may have
Knowing that "Mac vs. PC" is like saying "Boeing 737 vs. Airplanes"
Knowing what an operating system, on a basic level at least
Knowing what a web browser is
Knowing how to use basic office programs
Knowing how to browse the web safely and avoid viruses and phishing sites
Knowing how to distinguish spam from actual emails
Knowing how to tell when a problem is actually caused by a virus
Knowing how to tell your antivirus from malware pretending to be an antivirus
--^Related: Knowing that McAfee and Norton are ****, get 'em to use Kaspersky or ESET or something else that actually works

Having a basic familiarity with the theory behind computers, at least on a very simple, abstract level
Having a glancing familiarity with the inside of a PC (to the point of being able to say "this is a motherboard" "this is RAM" "this is a hard drive)
Having a basic familiarity with some of the major companies in the IT industry and what they do, including Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, etc.


I consider that baseline computer literacy. And it's what I would teach, if it were my place to do so.
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Offline chimera15

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Idiot computer teacher
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 01:43:58 »
Just ask if you can test out.
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Offline Phaedrus2129

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« Reply #52 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 01:48:40 »
Quote from: chimera15;290608
Just ask if you can test out.


Even assuming I can, this woman is not the person to be teaching this class, period. I said in the OP that she is doing more harm than good by confusing and frustrating students, and I stand by that. Besides, I've already agreed with other students that we're going to talk to the department head (3-4 of us).
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Offline cyberphine

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« Reply #53 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 02:47:23 »
Unfortunately teachers like this exist in every school.  It's an unfortunate byproduct of the current system.  I was in your position about a decade ago, and I have one solution.  Pick your battles.  I understand you are paying (cash/grants/loans/scholarships) for an education, but getting on the bad side of a department head isn't the way to start a college career.  If you know the content, I would move on.

I also understand the urge to make things right, even if it's for the benefit of others.  When the CS sub-culture of meritocracy, is thrown against the educational systems bureaucracy, things clash.  While this doesn't excuse this specific teacher I just wanted to reiterate the point to pick your battles.  

If your goal is to get a degree, then abide by the rules of the game.  
If your goal is to learn, then I'd suggest self-study while in school and passing that study off as "projects".
If you can't stand the fact that this teacher is there and you have an overwhelming urge to become an activist, then think about what you're doing very thoroughly.  If you really do want to make it better for others don't be held to the mindset   "oh, this is broke because the teachers sucks, so the fix is to get a new teacher".  I'd suggest being a little bit more cordial and join the student council, ACM, or whatever organization.  Don't, repeat, don't be on the wrong side of a "teachers lounge conference".
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Offline mail2345

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« Reply #54 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 03:01:35 »
Quote from: Voixdelion;290595
Such a level of course might only be designed to let people understand that AV exists and why rather than be able to distinguish  between the malware and the real thing.  Those skills would be actual Computer Science type courses, I think, as opposed to Computer Literacy.  There are people who use computers day in and day out that have never seen a dos prompt and probably wouldn't know what to call it if they did, so in that light, maybe she isn't so out of her league as it may seem.  

Actually, that would probably be administration, or maybe just the generic title of "Computer Repair".
Computer Science covers theory(eg, what sorting algorithm is best for sorting this list under these conditions).
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Offline Cyanide

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« Reply #55 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 03:50:30 »
it seems like every computer class i have taken has been horrible, but easy A's. the students always know more than the teachers. it always feels like the teachers are trying to tell us stuff that is common knowledge, and the  way the teach it never makes sense haha.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #56 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 06:01:19 »
Quote from: mail2345;290640
Actually, that would probably be administration, or maybe just the generic title of "Computer Repair".
Computer Science covers theory(eg, what sorting algorithm is best for sorting this list under these conditions).


Computer science is really just a branch of maths, particularly stuff do with formal logic and set theory.

Offline Voixdelion

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« Reply #57 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 10:26:53 »
Quote from: cyberphine;290634
Unfortunately teachers like this exist in every school.  It's an unfortunate byproduct of the current system.  I was in your position about a decade ago, and I have one solution.  Pick your battles.  I understand you are paying (cash/grants/loans/scholarships) for an education, but getting on the bad side of a department head isn't the way to start a college career.  If you know the content, I would move on.

I also understand the urge to make things right, even if it's for the benefit of others.  When the CS sub-culture of meritocracy, is thrown against the educational systems bureaucracy, things clash.  While this doesn't excuse this specific teacher I just wanted to reiterate the point to pick your battles.  

If your goal is to get a degree, then abide by the rules of the game.  
If your goal is to learn, then I'd suggest self-study while in school and passing that study off as "projects".
If you can't stand the fact that this teacher is there and you have an overwhelming urge to become an activist, then think about what you're doing very thoroughly.  If you really do want to make it better for others don't be held to the mindset   "oh, this is broke because the teachers sucks, so the fix is to get a new teacher".  I'd suggest being a little bit more cordial and join the student council, ACM, or whatever organization.  Don't, repeat, don't be on the wrong side of a "teachers lounge conference".


There is some merit to this line of thinking, but as one who, in 8th grade,  left an anonymous note for my life science teacher to let him know that his classes were excruciatingly boring and his lecture style could benefit from some less traditional approaches,  and who, in 9th, cited specific negative examples of her English professor's own behavior in the research paper that was worth 40 percent of our grade for the semester, I can well understand the desire to speak up.  So I suggest, if you must, try to be diplomatic in the approach, or at least have solid backing for your stance that is documented.  

Perhaps a careful conversation directly with the professor with an offering of services to help improve or focus the curriculum as an aide may be more productive and less adversarial?  (This is not the best approach if you don't feel that you have the face to face finesse to pull it off without earning an F in the course for pissing off the teacher, but should it result in that, you at least have some grounds for dispute since you can easily prove better knowledge of the subject matter than she.)  

Since it is not certain what circumstances have put the instructor there, perhaps it might be a little unfair to start by going over her head, though.  For all you know this was a last minute substitution of teachers when something befell the one who was supposed to be there.  i find it surprising that a teacher who has "packets" to hand out doesn't know the material if they put in the effort of making packets to begin with, but if the packets are from some other source, that could also be very telling as far as whether or not the instructor was even originally intended for that class.

There are some critical questions about circumstance that would also influence how I might proceed as well.  For starters, what sort of institution is it?  Public or private?  That can really dictate an entirely different best choice of action depending upon which it is, as well as how many students attend the school and the class itself.  

FYI- the outcome of my situations: The note I left was not as anonymous as i had intended since the next day I was asked to stay after class by the instructor who apparently had figured it out.  But rather than in trouble, I got to share the techniques of some of my past excellent instructors with a teacher who was really trying to improve his ability to get through to us.  He came up with a painfully dry "cell mitosis game" but at least he tried and was better than what the rest of the year could have been like if I'd left it alone.  (His first semester at our school was unfortunately his last, but at least he made it past Parents night to the end of the semester long class.)

The English paper was an impulse fueled by my own frustration with a teacher I hated and who I felt hated me -  I dropped my original topic in favor of examining the direct relationship between teacher's expectations and student performance just two days before the rough draft was due.  It was well written and argued, but still a pretty decent risk to put the prof in the middle of it all so unmistakeably.  I let my nerdiest friend read it before handing it in and she very carefully said, "Well... You'll either get an 'A' on this... or an 'F'."   And, once again, I was asked to stick around when class let out the day those came back to us.  

Turns out the guy, before becoming head of our upper school English dept., had previously been a professor at Carnegie Mellon or the like.  Our class was his first, and very rocky, exposure to junior high.  (My mom, even after 35 of teaching in a Los Angeles public school district swore she would never touch a junior high class with a ten-foot pole if her life depended on it.)  He simply didn't know how to handle our level of maturity, or rather, lack thereof.  Though he had established himself as an excellent and passionate instructor at the upper grade levels, he was lost and nearly driven mad by a small group of 14 year old girls.  

He actually thanked me for having the courage to write that paper  - and the balls to hand it in.  He admitted that my paper stung him,  said he actually winced at recognizing himself in it and actually apologized to me personally and even tried to make amends with the class.  I got to have him again in upper school, and to this day I think of him as one of my favorite and best instructors and someone who had the greatest hand in developing my writing.  And, of course, I got an 'A' on the paper and in the class.  [I don't think, though, that he ever took on another 9th grade English class... =)]      

I should reiterate that these happy outcomes were both within the same school that had our chem teacher replaced within two days of the Parents meeting, so a small expensive institution is likely the most receptive to any complaints coming from the student body,  while a larger university may have a lot more red tape or even bigger concerns than the quality of instruction of such an entry level course.   It is good advice, not only to pick your battles, but if you pick this one, to plan it carefully so as to avoid any unnecessary casualties on either side.  Remember that teachers, even the incompetent ones, are still people first with feelings and, more often than not, good intentions.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 February 2011, 10:36:25 by Voixdelion »
"The more you tolerate each other, the less enforcement will happen."-iMav

Offline chimera15

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« Reply #58 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 11:18:01 »
You're lucky Voix.  I guess I had similar hopes that my situation with my college teacher would turn out well.  I had high hopes since my mother was also a teacher, but it all turned out horribly for me.  

I also tried to organize students to make complaints to the dean about him, which they did, but it didn't help me in the end.  The teacher apparently had a conference about the matter with the dean, but the teacher wasn't fired and he also refused to reverse my grades, which made going to that school pointless for me.

I hope your problem turns out more like Voix than mine.

I think as someone else said in this thread.  College these days has  mostly become about obtaining a piece of paper, not really about learning.   That piece of paper is more a sign that you can deal with people than it is that you know a certain subject.

I tried to go it on my own and learn on my own for a decade or more, and it's tough, because while you may know a million more times about a subject than someone with a degree, it's that person with a degree that's going to get a good job ahead of you, and be placed in a position over you, because no one will respect you, or give you credit that you know what you do know without one.  

If I had it all to do again in that early college attempt of mine I would have just shut up and gone along with my idiot teacher.  I would have probably had a much easier and nicer life.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 February 2011, 11:42:42 by chimera15 »
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Offline Voixdelion

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« Reply #59 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 13:04:09 »
Quote from: chimera15;290752
You're lucky Voix...

You ain't jus whistlin' Dixie, son...  I can't possibly express the amount of understatement in that sentiment.  I am utterly amazed at the quality of the educators I have been privileged with since I was 7 years old.  It is grossly unfair that many only get one or two in a lifetime that stand out if they are lucky while I can't think of a year that passed by without at least one of note, and half of those years were at a public school.  Even if you take into account how my parents chose their neighborhood by the school district it still doesn't balance the odds of me having instructors that put such passion into their craft.  

One madman actually took 14 seventh graders on a car/camping western loop tour of the US for two weeks once summer vacation started - on his own time, mind you!  He would have taken us across the US from coast to coast had it been a feasible task dealing with the rental station wagons all because of a Geography project we had done that year.   Were it not for Don Pedersen I wouldn't have yet seen the Grand Canyon, Carlsbad Caverns, or Old Faithful in person.  I'm still trying to track him down to say THANK YOU now.  What teacher would dare do something like that in today's litigious society?  (And this guy at the PUBLIC school!  Clearly, he must have been insane...)

And having a teacher that outstanding nearly every year of schooling?  IMO that is far surpassing "lucky" and more like entering the realm of "The Force" ...  I need to find a way to give some of that back to the universe.
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Offline WhiteRice

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« Reply #60 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 14:07:09 »
Quote from: ch_123;290664
Computer science is really just a branch of maths, particularly stuff do with formal logic and set theory.
We can't be bothered with constants!

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #61 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 14:29:27 »
You know, Ripster, it takes a lot of Lego sets to get 9 of those skull heads.
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Offline nathanscribe

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« Reply #62 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 15:01:03 »
I will never understand why Americans call Lego sets "Legos".  Lego as a brand name is used in the singular here in the UK: "Even Lego dies eventually".  Where I'd say "I have lots of Lego" I've heard Americans say "I have lots of Legos".

I'm not putting English English above American English by any means here - there are several American usages that went across the Atlantic four hundred years ago and remained, whereas we've ditched them.  And don't get me started on S/Z, books by certain Frenchmen aside.

Anyway, back OT:

I know what it's like being sent to teach a class you have no idea about.  It's a case of blagging your way through it sometimes.  Far from ideal I know.

As for statements like "the students know more than the teachers" and "there are people in their 60s who know about computers" don't forget, you reprehensible whippersnappers, that a mere 30 years ago  8-bit machines were very popular in the home.  Dads everywhere stood aghast as their 8-yr old children outpaced them by the furlong within ten minutes of opening the box.  Some things don't change.  But those people who designed those 8-bit systems will probably know more about how to build a working computer from matchsticks and rubber bands than the current click-happy illiterates will ever hope for.*

*wink or lol or whatever.
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Offline nathanscribe

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« Reply #63 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 15:56:19 »
That was good. I made this face with my face :-D
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Offline msiegel

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« Reply #64 on: Sun, 06 February 2011, 17:16:50 »

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Offline Phaedrus2129

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« Reply #65 on: Tue, 08 February 2011, 17:41:12 »
I think she overheard us talking, and took down our names.

Now, regardless of whether she's guilty or not, it's war.
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Offline chimera15

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« Reply #66 on: Tue, 08 February 2011, 23:09:38 »
Dude,  

I think you should think of college professors like forum trolls, or mods on power trips. Half of them are there just to tick you off so you get thrown off the board, or in this case school.  It doesn't matter how unreasonable you think they are, they're not the one that's going to get banned.
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Offline Voixdelion

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« Reply #67 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 00:08:41 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;291983
I think she overheard us talking, and took down our names.

Now, regardless of whether she's guilty or not, it's war.


What, you were discussing this IN CLASS!?

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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #68 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 13:32:07 »
It my class, it is common to ***** about lecturers in non-discrete ways all the time. Sometimes we do it in front of other lecturers, who often laugh.

Offline Heliophobic

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« Reply #69 on: Sat, 12 February 2011, 05:10:29 »
To be honest, what pisses me off more than unqualified teachers are the oh-so-know-it-all students that just have to question everything the teacher does. Making the class pretty much unbearable for everyone else, just to pump up his self-esteem.
Yelling stuff like "HAHA INSTALL UBUNTU ON IT lol derp herp" out of nowhere and put on this smug face like they really just told the teacher off.
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Offline panda-R

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« Reply #70 on: Sat, 12 February 2011, 09:55:04 »
Quote from: manfaux;290153
Take it easy buddy, there are two sides to every story, she probably had to screw a dozen guys just to get this job, just get your A and be done with it :)


or a few pandas at which point I would give her any teaching position she wanted.
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Offline aynjell

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« Reply #71 on: Mon, 14 February 2011, 16:39:53 »
First off, to all the people who said the class was designed to teach people humility and patience, screw that. It was marketed and designed to teach computer basics. To teach people who know nothing about the subject something. For an IT pro or even somebody in the same ballpark as an IT pro to go into that class and see so much fault with it is a disgrace to the higher learning facility and its HR department to boot.

That being said, if she's teaching a computer class it doesn't surprise me, but it's comments like this:
Quote from: theferenc;290314
Just to be clear: this is incredibly offensive. This chauvinistic attitude is one of the primary reason so few women go into technical and scientific fields, and it needs to stop.

That allow for women to get jobs they can't do. Just because it's a woman; people like you turn it into a social faux pas to criticize.  To be clear, I want women who can do my job to do my job, or men. People. But if I see a woman doing a job she isn't qualified to do, I immediately either question the HR department, or question her "references". This isn't just a chick teaching a class, this is a chick teaching a class she doesn't know a damned thing about. It's TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUES.

Save your hippy bull**** for a community who wants to read it. I'm not pandering to women, I'm demanding the same thing I'd demand from men: competence. Oh and ESPECIALLY in a teaching position, because blind leading the blind helps nobody.
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 February 2011, 18:33:26 by aynjell »
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #72 on: Mon, 14 February 2011, 19:19:56 »
@OP,

School, like many things in life, is a game. The key is to play it well. That way you'll do well and be happy. You're not going to like all the professors you have, nor will you ever like every single person you work with or for or ever meet in life for that matter. But your attitude will determine the majority of your outcomes with other people. So play your cards right and you'll end up on top.

Sincerely,
\KL
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 February 2011, 13:22:34 by keyboardlover »

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #73 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 13:21:32 »
You spelled "Sincerely" wrong.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #74 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 13:23:13 »
Fixed. BTW OP, don't be like MW.

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #75 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 13:24:56 »
Should I become a stupid English professor?
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #76 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 14:01:20 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;295585
Should I become a stupid English professor?

Depends...would it be an improvement?

Offline aynjell

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« Reply #77 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 14:04:05 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;295616
Depends...would it be an improvement?


Sure, he could troll the class by lecturing on the literary prowess of Stephanie Meyer.
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #78 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 16:37:53 »
Quote from: aynjell;295019
First off, to all the people who said the class was designed to teach people humility and patience, screw that. It was marketed and designed to teach computer basics. To teach people who know nothing about the subject something. For an IT pro or even somebody in the same ballpark as an IT pro to go into that class and see so much fault with it is a disgrace to the higher learning facility and its HR department to boot.

That being said, if she's teaching a computer class it doesn't surprise me, but it's comments like this:


That allow for women to get jobs they can't do. Just because it's a woman; people like you turn it into a social faux pas to criticize.  To be clear, I want women who can do my job to do my job, or men. People. But if I see a woman doing a job she isn't qualified to do, I immediately either question the HR department, or question her "references". This isn't just a chick teaching a class, this is a chick teaching a class she doesn't know a damned thing about. It's TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUES.

Save your hippy bull**** for a community who wants to read it. I'm not pandering to women, I'm demanding the same thing I'd demand from men: competence. Oh and ESPECIALLY in a teaching position, because blind leading the blind helps nobody.


You clearly took my comment out of context. The stated belief was that she only got the job by screwing enough people. This is the offensive part. An incompetent man would be ridiculed, but without the ad hom attacks.

However, I definitely agree that it's abilities, not gender, that are important. That doesn't change the fact that chauvinism exists, and women have to be more qualified than men in many areas of science and technology, for the same jobs.

This teacher clearly is not that, but that doesn't make it acceptable to cast aspersions on her character. Her abilities, yes. But not her character.
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #79 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 17:39:03 »
Quote from: ripster;295589
MW - have you heard of these two new keyboard forums that Sixty and Runeazn have?


I'm fine with posting here, thank you.
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Offline aynjell

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« Reply #80 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 19:34:51 »
Quote from: theferenc;295701
You clearly took my comment out of context. The stated belief was that she only got the job by screwing enough people. This is the offensive part. An incompetent man would be ridiculed, but without the ad hom attacks.

However, I definitely agree that it's abilities, not gender, that are important. That doesn't change the fact that chauvinism exists, and women have to be more qualified than men in many areas of science and technology, for the same jobs.

This teacher clearly is not that, but that doesn't make it acceptable to cast aspersions on her character. Her abilities, yes. But not her character.



I'm all for not hating on somebody, but I'm not going to pay tuition so that my teacher can bumble her way through meeting gender and racial diversity requirements. I've been taught by women that knew the field, and by men who didn't. I'd say the same thing either way, all I ask is that I get my money's worth as a student.

Seriously, by the description I still say there were some favors involved, or a bad HR department.
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #81 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 20:25:08 »
Or simply another teacher who left suddenly prior to the semester starting, and this was the only person who could cover the class?

That sort of thing happens a lot in academia, by the way.
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Offline aynjell

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« Reply #82 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 20:25:56 »
Quote from: theferenc;295789
Or simply another teacher who left suddenly prior to the semester starting, and this was the only person who could cover the class?

That sort of thing happens a lot in academia, by the way.



Either way I have to pay for it?
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #83 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 21:35:03 »
That's why class drops exist. Don't like the class, think it's poorly taught, you either deal with it, or you drop it.
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« Reply #84 on: Tue, 15 February 2011, 22:54:11 »
Quote from: theferenc;295814
That's why class drops exist. Don't like the class, think it's poorly taught, you either deal with it, or you drop it.


I can think of many situations where neither is acceptable. But we will just agree to disagree.
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Offline sggsix

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« Reply #85 on: Wed, 16 February 2011, 08:37:12 »
Great thread Phaedrus2129!  I really enjoyed reading this on the my lunch break.  Thanks all! <3 <3 <3 <3 This made my day.
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Offline Atranox

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« Reply #86 on: Thu, 17 February 2011, 08:00:35 »
I have a BS in Software Development...and sadly, teachers like this are far too common.  With my A+ certification course, we had a professor who had NO idea what he was talking about.  The class had absolutely no hands-on hardware whatsoever because he insisted that it was "unnecessary" and that the best way to learn was to "study" diagrams and figures.  It was really awful - all that we did was look at pictures of dated technology.  He knew nothing whatsoever about modern hardware.

For what it's worth, only 3 of the ~20 people in the class ended up with their certification.  What a joke.