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Author Topic: Realforce 103U & 103U-UW  (Read 20007 times)

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Offline Engine

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Realforce 103U & 103U-UW
« on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:26:19 »
I've scoured the EK website and emailed them about the difference between the two.
I mean except for the obvious, like the U-UW is $30 cheaper and comes with some tools, including a key puller.
Obviously, if there are no other differences, then I'm going to consider buying the U-UW but before I pull the trigger, I'd like to know if there's anything I'm mssing?  Why sell what apparently looks like the same keyboard for less and with tools and a different model number/name if there's nothing else to differentiate?
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #1 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:27:58 »
Go for the 103U.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #2 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:28:57 »
Quote from: RiGS;305627
Go for the 103U.


Shut up!

Go for the 103U-UW as there is NO difference between the 2 whatsoever!

Quote from: Engine
Why sell what apparently looks like the same keyboard for less and with tools and a different model number/name if there's nothing else to differentiate?


They are "old stock" and majestouch has a bunch of them leftover, so now he's letting them go at a really good value. That's the only reason why. There is absolutely no difference in features or quality.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:38:48 by keyboardlover »
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #3 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:36:09 »
Well, that's what it seemed like and why it was boggling to me.  I was wondering "where's the gotcha" if I go w/the cheaper one.  I would assume that the U-UW came with the "extras" as a complete pkg and now basically discontiniued as such and now he just has the "new" stripped version that apparently Topre is willing to offer him?  I'm still wondering why he just doesn't offer it at same pricing, unless it was always at the price and now the price went up this year begining w/the new shipments?
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #4 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:40:18 »
There really is no "gotcha"; as I said they're "old stock". It's basically like, he got a shipment of them like a year ago or 2 ago (or something), but since then he's gotten a new shipment. The old shipment he's now offering at a discount with some extras. That's all!
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #5 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:45:03 »
I guess Topre simply discontinued that model but it's really just the same board shipped as a pkg and now discontinued.  Ok thanks.  I don't really understand the market.

Oh and Ripster, some of your pics are the bacon on the salad.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #6 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 13:48:20 »
Quote from: Engine;305640
I don't really understand the market.


Neither do I ;)

These Asian companies operate very differently from American companies.
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #7 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 14:24:46 »
I have some understanding of the differences between the Topre and the Unicomp but can someone who knows the "experience" difference between the Topre and Unicomp chime in?
So far, I only know that the Topre has a "hybrid" of sorts in their switch using the BS, RD and Capacitive.  Oh, and the fact that Topre has the differing key wieght for ergo benifit.  Plus the Topre is a thousand times better looking but all in all, the user's experience?
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 14:43:13 »
Having used both, I prefer the Topre since it's much quieter and also much lighter. Not as tactile, which some complain about, but there are tradeoffs with every board and switch. If there wasn't, we'd all have the same keyboard! :D
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #9 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:09:03 »
The Unicomp is a much heavier keyboard, in terms of the keys. It also feels more "crisp" at each key press.

The Topre feels much smoother, but definitely lacks in the tactility department, as well as in the auditory feedback department.

I love them both, and I switch back and forth between them with no difficulty. There are times when the Topre is better, and times when the Unicomp is better. A lot of it is mood, but there are also external factors, such as noise. The Topre is basically silent, compared to the Unicomp.
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #10 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:13:10 »
Quote from: Engine;305665
I have some understanding of the differences between the Topre and the Unicomp but can someone who knows the "experience" difference between the Topre and Unicomp chime in?
So far, I only know that the Topre has a "hybrid" of sorts in their switch using the BS, RD and Capacitive.  Oh, and the fact that Topre has the differing key wieght for ergo benifit.  Plus the Topre is a thousand times better looking but all in all, the user's experience?


I wouldn't say that the buckling spring is in any way related to the Topre, or vice-versa. For one, the spring in the Topre doesn't buckle!

That said, the original buckling spring patent by IBM had a mechanism where there was a capacitive sensor on the side of the barrel which was acutated when the buckling spring buckled in its direction, which is somewhat similar to the basic principle on which the Topre operates. IBM never made any keyboards that used that mechanism though.

« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:15:31 by ch_123 »
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #11 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:36:50 »
I did.  That's how I know the basics of the Topre and that it's spring "depresses" vs "buckles".  I also know that the Topre is quieter and has little tactility but was wondering literally what the user's eperience was is all.  I agree that they are opposite "polar" from each other but what exactly is the experience of the Topre?
I guess that should be the question.
I know the Customizer though, since I have one in the house.
I guess as I write this, I realize that I'll probably get one for my wife anyway and I can test hers but I'm waiting to learn just a bit more before I commit.
I'm on my way to keyboard addiction...
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:43:06 by Engine »
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #12 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:40:28 »
They might well be polar opposites, but they are the switches I find it easiest to switch back and forth between.

Virtually 0 transition time to go from my customizer to my hhkb.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #13 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:43:27 »
Doesn't the capacitive nature of the Topre switch make it fundamentally different from a rubber dome?
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #14 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:45:11 »
And don't forget the tactile bump!
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #15 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:46:31 »
I'm only reading good on the Topre and received more than one recommendation to get this for my wife/mother.
What attracts me to it for me is the possible ergonomics of it for my wrists, as it's varying weight.  Does anyone think this could be a good choice for me on "comfort"?
Per Ripster's last post:
Ok, yet another benifit..No need to bottom out.  Good.  I think that may be contributing to my achey hands with my current rubber dome and may explain why the Customizer felt better for me.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 15:50:52 by Engine »
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woody

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« Reply #16 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 16:05:08 »
Quote from: Engine;305743
Ok, yet another benifit..No need to bottom out.  Good.  I think that may be contributing to my achey hands with my current rubber dome and may explain why the Customizer felt better for me.

You'd still be bottoming out, even if it does register before that point.

And comparing BS and Topre is just silly. Refined rubber dome is a good approximation.

One way to know - spend the dough and test yourself on the placebo effect. It's OK for typing, I guess.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #17 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 16:10:55 »
It's possible to not bottom out on Topres. Especially for fast touch typists.
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #18 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 16:13:09 »
I'm feeling strongly in getting one for my Wife and letting her and I test it.  I guess in the long run you are right and I just have to try it but it's helped a lot to get all this feedback.  It's helped me understand some things about this board, thus helping my decision.
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #19 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 18:10:35 »
I see that the Topre comes in 55g or variable key weight.  I'm assuming the person looking for something more ergonomic would go for the variable but who gets the "55g"?
Please direct/correct.
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #20 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 18:18:54 »
Gamers tend to chose uniform weighted and stiffer keyboards.
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #21 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 18:22:21 »
So, say for a writer, it would be advisable to get the variable and especially if he gets sore wrists/hands?(ME)
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 18:24:48 by Engine »
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #22 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 18:38:52 »
That makes sense to me. The all 55g would be a little stiff for a writer. Fun to pound on when you're angry tho :D
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #23 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:13:20 »
Ok.  Would you believe that the "tenkeyles" version may be more ergo?  I don't need a ten key pad but they're nice for doing bills each month.  I saw on youtube by phototristan that the mouse can be closer to you if you don't have a ten keypad on your kb and that's better ergonomically?
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #24 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:19:43 »
From what I know, the ergo stuff tends to be a bit different for different people. It's hard to say without knowing what your exact needs/problems are. I think by your logic, it certainly could be more ergo, since your arms will rest more straight whilst typing and using the mouse at the same time.
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #25 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:21:45 »
Tenkeyless would be more comfortable. Have you noticed how phototristan bashed the black Realforce?
Also note there is a poll on Realforce colour. Make sure to check that out.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #26 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:24:26 »
Yea, except don't vote white/gold on black, or else RiGS will throw a hissy fit.
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #27 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:24:29 »
I've never seen one in person but have seen the black version w/grey print on the keys and it's pretty light but other than that, do you suppose the keys will take a long time to "rub out"?  I saw that PT didn't like the light keys after a while and switched to white.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:26:38 by Engine »
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #28 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:25:04 »
It would take a very long time. They are dye-sublimated keys and very well made.
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #29 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:31:50 »
The black plastic would noticeably wear down very quickly!
This is one of the major point for getting the white one.
I recommend you to check out this post.
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=305753&postcount=40
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline Engine

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« Reply #30 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:40:03 »
KL,
Good because my Wife would prefer the keyboard in black.  I'm on the road to surprizing her with the 103 UB.
As for myself, I have to make up my mind if I want to go with the 103 U or U-UW.  My wife's will be the first to come into the household though and I can test it then.  I like the Unicomp but the Topre looks promising too.  Like you, I may very well end up a proud owner of both.  Besides, I'm seeing how the kb bug does bite here. =)

EDIT:
RIGS,
I'll check out that thread, thanks.
KL,
You own the Topre right?  The UB yes?
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:42:12 by Engine »
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #31 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:47:13 »
The black doesn't get shiny particularly quickly. And with proper lighting, you can see the keys just fine.

RiGS I think has an issue with the black, but I have had no problem with my HHKB, which supposedly has lower quality keys anyway. Use it daily for coding for the past 5 months or so, no shine, no wear.

Supposedly, the Realforce keys are even better, for what that's worth.
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Offline Surly73

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« Reply #32 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:50:30 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;305889
That makes sense to me. The all 55g would be a little stiff for a writer. Fun to pound on when you're angry tho :D

But then writers could have never survived when 70g+ BS keyboards is all there was.  This site is full of model M lovers and I bet some of them do some writing.

I think that gamers who want uniformity or heavier typers likely opt for the 55g.  I'd probably be perfectly comfortable with a 55g based on my touch but if/when I buy a Topre I'm going to go for the variable experience and see how I adapt.  I don't "want" a heavy touch, that's just what I've developed.  Using a model M at the office probably isn't doing anything to change that.  :)

I do wish there was another option for Realforce black.  I'd like a black keyboard at home, but lighting is usually low key.  Without seeing one in person I don't know if it would look like a blank keyboard or not.  In some photos it's easy to see, in others the keys look blank.  It would be nice if there was a higher contrast black option of some sort with decent quality which didn't require you to buy a keyboard and then pull all those nice caps off an replace them with something third party.  I get that the "almost blank" thing is "cool", but wouldn't a double-shot option be nice too?  Of course then the price would be $3xx... :(
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:52:53 by Surly73 »
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #33 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 19:55:11 »
I never said he wouldn't survive. I just think the overall writing experience would be better.
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #34 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 20:37:09 »
Quote from: ripster;305954
Keys are identical between RealForce and Topre.


Which makes sense, since Topre makes the Realforce line. I was comparing the Happy Hacking Keyboard, made by PFU, to the Realforce line, made by Topre.

And lots of folks here claim the keys on the Realforce are higher quality. I didn't say they were, but that's the claim that is often made by people with both.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #35 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 20:38:09 »
I've heard that the entire Realforce board is of higher quality, in comparison to the HHKB. But yea, the keys are the same.
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #36 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 20:39:47 »
Fair enough. I don't own both, so can't compare. But it's something I've seen here many times.

Anyway, makes my point about the keys on my HHKB even more valid, if they are exactly the same.
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #37 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 20:56:39 »
Quote from: Engine;305924

As for myself, I have to make up my mind if I want to go with the 103 U or U-UW.

I actually meant I have to choose between the "86U" and the 103U-UW.
I'm deciding if I should get the ten key or ten keyless version for myself.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #38 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 20:59:48 »
Ohhh I understand now. Tough decision, since the 86UW is price so much higher (and could come down if they had a sale or something). You could always email EK and ask if they have any B-stock 86UW's (might have a scratched key or demo board or something).
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 21:21:11 by keyboardlover »
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #39 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 21:19:01 »
Yeah, I couldn't understand the price difference for what is basically "less" board, however that could indicate a higher popularity I suppose.  At least for me, it may be the ergo choice.  Perahps writers/programmers favor them as a no-nonsense work board.
By the way, I am dabbling with writing and programming too.
Hence, I have to take my choice of kb seriously, especially as I have wrist issues, therefore the mucho inquires.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 21:45:14 by Engine »
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #40 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 21:39:31 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;305971
Ohhh I understand now. Tough decision, since the 86UW is price so much higher (and could come down if they had a sale or something). You could always email EK and ask if they have any B-stock 86UW's (might have a scratched key or demo board or something).


Oh, Wait.  I hope I didn't confuse here.  I was comparing the the 103U and 103u-UW initially yes but have just moved that to comparing the 103U-UW and 86U.  
I just discovered here in this thread that a "tenkeyless" board may make more sense for me, given my wrist issues and how ergonomics must play a role in my decision.
Also, thanks for that advice on the "B" stock for a less expensive 86U.  I'll check it out.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 March 2011, 21:42:32 by Engine »
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Offline panda-R

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« Reply #41 on: Sat, 05 March 2011, 23:07:44 »
THIS THREAD is awesome because I have a 103-UW!!!!!
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #42 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 06:18:02 »
Get back in your cage!
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Offline Engine

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« Reply #43 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 12:03:33 »
I saw your review on cnet for the Topre.  Good job on whipping back the noob heckler too! =)
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Offline keyboardlover

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  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Realforce 103U & 103U-UW
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 12:07:27 »
Lol thanks...I just got annoyed at that guy because he was complaining about stuff he should have realized the keyboard didn't have/do before he bought it! Then he complained after the fact. You shouldn't down-rate a keyboard because of PEBKAC issues.

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Offline Engine

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 250
Realforce 103U & 103U-UW
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 12:12:42 »
Lol!  Yes, I remember you explaining PEBKAC to him too..LOL!
Good closing arguments!
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 March 2011, 12:17:26 by Engine »
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In order of purchase:
Unicomp Space Saver(Black) - Topre Realforce 103U-UW -   Topre Realforce 103UB - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Blue - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Brown - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Blue - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Brown

Offline Engine

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 250
Realforce 103U & 103U-UW
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 14:56:51 »
Also, "that guy" made a reference to the high price tag of the Topre and come to think of it, cnet only three stars to the Topre for not having USB and other extras for the money but by their own admission, the price is reflected by what's under the hood.
Yeah, it's a bit of cash but so was the Model M when it was new.  I can't remember where I read it recently but it said they went for around $300 back then new.
Maybe a long time vet of the Model M can clarify that.
You simply get what you pay for and I'm always willing to pay more to get more, especially seeing that few kbs out there address my specific needs.
On youtube, PT said that the Realforce replicted the IBM Model M's solid build.  I still have to test it out though of course and will see then what I think but am willing to go on it solid rep so far.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 March 2011, 15:02:03 by Engine »
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In order of purchase:
Unicomp Space Saver(Black) - Topre Realforce 103U-UW -   Topre Realforce 103UB - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Blue - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Brown - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Blue - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Brown

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Realforce 103U & 103U-UW
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 14:58:46 »
Yea, exactly.
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Offline Engine

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 250
Realforce 103U & 103U-UW
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 06 March 2011, 23:00:34 »
I emailed EK for a possible discounted 86U unit.  We'll see eh?
Thanks for the advice.  I'd rather have the tenkeyless version but if no discounted version is available, then I'll just have to get the discounted 103U-UW, otherwise, that's all I'm waiting for before I pull the trigger.  By the way, how hard would it be to sell this keyboard here if I decided for whatever reason to sell?  Besides that, would I be able to actually get at least most of my money back?  I'd know w/in a week I suppose if it's not the one for me to keep.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 March 2011, 06:27:36 by Engine »
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In order of purchase:
Unicomp Space Saver(Black) - Topre Realforce 103U-UW -   Topre Realforce 103UB - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Blue - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Brown - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Blue - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Brown

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Realforce 103U & 103U-UW
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 07 March 2011, 09:38:02 »
Reselling Topres here is like shooting fish in a barrel.
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