IBM Model F XT - $51

[Sam]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180633487041

OK, I give up, why is this keyboard so expensive?  $20 is usually tops for these, and frequently the go for under $10.  Why are these two in a bidding war for this one?  Maybe they both mistook it for an AT?

And one more from the same seller, with the same two in the bidding war up to $31.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180633487003

[Sam]

I don't see why someone would attempt shill bidding for a common item such as this though, when plenty others are available on eBay.  One with a $2.00 starting bid went unsold just a few days ago.  Another one sold last week for about $5.00.  Then there was another unusual one before that selling for $31 but from another seller with one of the same bidders involved as these.  If it was shill bidding, you'd expect it to be from the same seller, not different sellers.  That's why I was wondering if there's different versions of these that I'm not aware of and one of them is in much more demand, or if there's another reason.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Well, I did ask this seller and he said that they do indeed have an AT connector.

[Sam]

Yes, that's correct.  All PC/XT keyboards have the same connector as the AT.  But they are not compatible with AT or other modern PC's.  The PC/XT boards only sent data to the computer, but did not receive data.  With the introduction of the AT, IBM realized they needed two-way communications in order to add LED lights for Caps Lock, etc.  In doing so, they modified the protocol enough so that XT class keyboards are incompatible with later AT and above keyboards.  A few manufacturers added a switch to change between the XT and AT protocols, but IBM wasn't one of them.

In other words, these keyboards are worthless for use on a modern PC unless you make an adapter for them.  Even then, the layout is unacceptable to most.  It may look a lot like an AT, but the differences in layout are enough to drive most to not use the XT, even if they could.

[Sam]

$51 isn't exactly Model M Mini prices.

Sometimes the metal labels look scratched up on these because nobody ever bothered to remove the clear plastic protector.

No, but it's a lot to pay just to look at a keyboard and not be able to use it.  Especially being these are extremely common and continuously available.  If it was some rare keyboard, I could see someone paying that kind of money.

You're absolutely right about the plastic protector.  The first thing I do when I buy any product is to remove them, so any scratches on my stuff will be real.  But I hate using devices while looking at that plastic covering metal and other surfaces.  I'm surprised though at how many people leave it on, even when it starts looking extremely tacky.

[Sam]

You like sitting and looking at XT boards, but not IBM Beam Spring boards?  I'd much rather look at a Beam Spring myself.  Even better, actually use it as I've been doing with one of mine.  Lovely keys in my opinion.  Model F XT switches are also great in my opinion, but I doubt I'd ever really use one due to the layout.  If I'm going to go to the trouble of using a non-standard layout, I'll choose a Beam Spring board.

Looking at keyboard boxes don't do much for me.  I had a bunch of boxes made to store my keyboards, with all the boxes looking the same.  Of course I realize if one was buying keyboards for investment purposes, the original box could be pretty important.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Actually, he also said that he used a AT->PS/2 adapter to test both of them. It worked fine. He also said in the auction that he has a third he's using as his main keyboard.

I don't see why not being able to show capslock lights would be that important/stop it from working. Those are a nicety, but I don't think they're required. In fact, the way my desk is I usually can't see them to begin with (for the bigger keyboards, anyway). I would think that not having two way communication would simply stop them from working, and seeing as how they do not exist on these boards all I can say to that is: So...?

[Sam]

They will not work with a modern PC.  It's not just that the communication is one-way.  The protocol itself is different.  You need a specially designed adapter that will convert the signals to the proper protocol if you want to use it with a modern PC.  IBM did make some later Model M keyboards that were designed for the XT class machines but which would also work on AT and modern computers, such as the 1390120.  These do not have any lights and do not have a problem because they were designed with the AT protocol in mind.  A lot of these Model M's are used by people who don't care if they have the lights or not, and you're right, for many the lights are not necessary.  But the lack of LEDs is not the issue, the basic protocol is.

Many sellers say they tested the keyboard, but in all likelihood, many never did.  In this case, he may very well have an old PC that the keyboards came with and tested using that.  There were also some PCs made I believe that would work with either protocol.  Unless someone made a special controller for this keyboard, anyone buying it will be very disappointed when trying to connect it to their modern PC.  99.9% it will not work.

One note about the more expensive of the two (now up to $61), it does look nice, and has all four of the cork rubber feet.  Something you don't see often on these boards as they're frequently missing one or more of them.

[Sam]

He also said in the auction that he has a third he's using as his main keyboard.

Where did he say that?  I read them both twice I didn't see that.  He said he saved two of them, both put up for auction, and typed the ad on one of those two.  Which he may have if he typed it on one of the PCs they came off of, saved it to a floppy diskette, then took the floppy to a more modern PC with a 5 1/4" floppy drive and uploaded it.  I do though seriously doubt anyone would have gone through the trouble to do that.

[JBert]

Looks like some bidders forgot to do their homework. Too bad for them.

[kill will]

they are model f at STYLE ... u gotta read the fine print.  lmao rofl

[Multiple]

I'm waiting for this sucker: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=2387347745

Paid 50 bucks + shipping, it's not new, got some use, but it is still under valued in my opinion.

My secondary development system at home, consisting of IBM servers, each costing a thousand times more than any keyboard on the market, begs the question why one should even bother checking the price...

In all honesty I would feel better if I had to pay at least 10x more as it is very degrading to pay this little.

I also think it would be a good idea for someone to make keyboards for professionals in the 3000-5000 USD range. Leaving imperfect keyboards to amateurs.

[JBert]

That might be 20 dollars more than what I'd give for it, seeing how it doesn't work with an existing PC.

[Sam]

In all honesty I would feel better if I had to pay at least 10x more as it is very degrading to pay this little.

In that case, what do you think about someone paying only $2 for such a keyboard?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120694747791

While the keyboards are a great value when looking at what they cost when new, I'm still not sure why someone would pay $40 and up for an unusable (to most) keyboard that can be had for a fraction of that price.  Unless of course it's in a collectible condition (new).

[Multiple]

Pay top dollars and get top service. That is why.

Spending someones time for $2 is disrespectful at best, also disrespectful to the keyboard, hehe.

[JBert]

Actually, the low price is the result of an auction...
The start price is set and the price will only increase when someone bids. If only one person bids in an auction, his bid will be the only one taken into account.

Now check Ebay's auction mechanism: you enter your maximal bid and Ebay automatically raises the price until all but one bidder's maximal bid is met. That person wins the auction.
Again, there was only one person, hence the low price at which the seller must complete the sale.