Author Topic: Reds vs Blacks and are all same colored switches the same? (Read 13547 times)

JohnehJH · « **on:** Fri, 25 March 2011, 22:01:08 »

They're both linear, but something tells me the experience is different. I've tried blacks, at work. I have to say: I hate black switches with a passion. They make it almost impossible to type, I'd rather use a rubber dome. They lead to so many accidental keystrokes.

That being said, I don't own a mechanical keyboard yet. I just bought a blue tenkeyless at Amazon (the leo tempted me, but looked aesthetically less appealing than the Filco) and it's on it's way. The reason I went with the blue was because I tried my friends Blackwidow and it felt fantastic.

But now I'm curious... did it feel fantastic because of the switch? Do I hate Blacks because my work keyboards are a ****ty brand? Is a blue always a blue, or can key spacing and such affect how the keyboard types?

I'm contemplating buying the Filco-2 Reds because I wanna try the opposite of blues, but aren't Blacks and Reds the same? Just linear switches? Does anyone who's tried them both know how similar they feel, or if the feeling of either would be more comparable to a different switch?

cerhem293 · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri, 25 March 2011, 22:20:59 »

Reds take less force to press than blacks. Favorite switch varies from person to person.

kektr0city · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri, 25 March 2011, 22:21:43 »

blues and reds are about as opposite as you can get in terms of typing experience. blues are the most tactile of switches and reds are the lightest most linear of switches. check out the wiki on switch types, ripster has a lot of nice force diagrams to detail the difference.

canon.tk · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri, 25 March 2011, 23:56:46 »

I just got my Filco with reds today and I've been gaming on a black since June of last year. So far the red switch hasn't won me over from the blacks. Yeah blacks are a little harder to type on than a blue or brown switch, but if you think reds are going to be easier to type on than blacks you're mistaken.

They have a little bit of a nicer feel too them from being a softer touch but that's about it. They aren't much easier to type on unless you bottom them out. I got pretty good at not bottoming out blacks so I'm sure it'll take me some time to adjust to reds.

I type all day on blues at work and I'm typing on browns right now.

One thing I'll note is that reds have the same weighted springs as browns do, but browns feel heavier because of the tactile feed back in the switch.

I would guess if you don't like blacks because of the weight then you MIGHT like reds. If you don't like blacks because of no tactile feed back then you'll hate reds just the same.

JohnehJH · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 26 March 2011, 00:05:47 »

Quote from: canon.tk;318790

I just got my Filco with reds today and I've been gaming on a black since June of last year. So far the red switch hasn't won me over from the blacks. Yeah blacks are a little harder to type on than a blue or brown switch, but if you think reds are going to be easier to type on than blacks you're mistaken.

They have a little bit of a nicer feel too them from being a softer touch but that's about it. They aren't much easier to type on unless you bottom them out. I got pretty good at not bottoming out blacks so I'm sure it'll take me some time to adjust to reds.

I type all day on blues at work and I'm typing on browns right now.

One thing I'll note is that reds have the same weighted springs as browns do, but browns feel heavier because of the tactile feed back in the switch.

I would guess if you don't like blacks because of the weight then you MIGHT like reds. If you don't like blacks because of no tactile feed back then you'll hate reds just the same.

Is bottoming out on blacks wrong? I mean idk, I don't like them at work, but could I be using them wrong? Is there any particular reason someone would NOT want tactile feedback?

canon.tk · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 26 March 2011, 00:17:10 »

Quote from: JohnehJH;318792

Is bottoming out on blacks wrong? I mean idk, I don't like them at work, but could I be using them wrong? Is there any particular reason someone would NOT want tactile feedback?

IMO tactile feed back isn't needed for most games, but it helps when typing. If you want to double tap, or spam a key really fast blacks/reds is best. If you're just playing a game like StarCraft then any switch would be fine.

You don't need to bottom any of the switches because the actuation point is half way down. The point of the tactile feed back is to tell you when you can stop pressing down, you feel the bump or click you can let up on the key. Which is why most the people on here will tell you blacks are horrid and don't use them. What they also aren't telling you is that they have tactile switches and they're bottoming them out all the time.

Human · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 26 March 2011, 03:35:24 »

Quote from: canon.tk;318795

IMO tactile feed back isn't needed for most games, but it helps when typing. If you want to double tap, or spam a key really fast blacks/reds is best. If you're just playing a game like StarCraft then any switch would be fine.

You don't need to bottom any of the switches because the actuation point is half way down. The point of the tactile feed back is to tell you when you can stop pressing down, you feel the bump or click you can let up on the key. Which is why most the people on here will tell you blacks are horrid and don't use them. What they also aren't telling you is that they have tactile switches and they're bottoming them out all the time.

Completely same with what i felt!!!!

I used blue for FPS and it is so so(still acceptable, no major whining). But when it come to action games, it was like FFFFUUUUUUUUUU

zakazak · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 26 March 2011, 04:01:05 »

well i would be more intersted in a comparison of reds vs. browns.

in term of fps games and typing. From what i read until now, the reds should be a little bit lighter to type. But will you really reconize it that much and instantly ? especially as a guy who comes from ages of using rubber keyboards?

also i read that the reds arent as loud as the browns (would be another plus for the reds).

zakazak · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 26 March 2011, 16:28:15 »

what kind of games do you play?

keyboardlover · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 26 March 2011, 16:31:29 »

He plays Head Games.

nmd · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 26 March 2011, 18:01:59 »

Quote from: zakazak;319130

what kind of games do you play?

Most likely Lego Universe.

zakazak · « **Reply #11 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 03:23:02 »

so overall you think that there is no real need to wait weeks/months and pay alot more just for having reds instead of browns?

nice i´m gonna get my first mechanical keyboard soon then ! (filco majestouch 2 tenkeyless mx brown uhuuhuh !)

RiGS · « **Reply #12 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 06:25:33 »

Quote from: ripster;319256

I gave Shogun 2 a quick whirl with the Cherry Reds. I use WASD for camera movement.

They are just kinda light to ride the activation point and no bump to help you give your muscle memory some help.

wwwwwwwwwww
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ssssssssss
dddddddddddddddddddd

For typing they are OK after getting used to them. Just kinda boring. Like a thread on Ergonomic layouts.

Do you feel any difference between your ghetto reds and the real ones?

keyboardlover · « **Reply #13 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 06:47:36 »

Is my understanding correct that the only actual difference between blacks and reds is the spring? Yesterday I tried modding a red switch with the spring from a gray switch, and it felt like what I would imagine a cherry black to feel like (heavy and linear). I used it for a little bit and then switched it back. As I was using it I felt the pangs of nihilism coming on. I imagined the universe being swallowed up and realized that life had lost all meaning.

Phew, glad I'm back on normal cherries =)
Life has meaning again!

RiGS · « **Reply #14 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 06:53:22 »

The gray switch is stiffer than black.
Also the black stem is slightly different than the red stem.

Hey even sixty the biggest cherryholic of all time prefer the vintage cherry blacks.
However a well lubed sticker modded cherry black with the 74.6g titanium spring could beat that.

zakazak · « **Reply #15 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 11:30:08 »

blah.. now i just wanted to finally buy my first mechanical keyboard (filco tenkeyless mx brown with german layout) and thekeyboardco ran out of stock today -.-

JohnehJH · « **Reply #16 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 12:11:41 »

Quote from: canon.tk;318795

IMO tactile feed back isn't needed for most games, but it helps when typing. If you want to double tap, or spam a key really fast blacks/reds is best. If you're just playing a game like StarCraft then any switch would be fine.

You don't need to bottom any of the switches because the actuation point is half way down. The point of the tactile feed back is to tell you when you can stop pressing down, you feel the bump or click you can let up on the key. Which is why most the people on here will tell you blacks are horrid and don't use them. What they also aren't telling you is that they have tactile switches and they're bottoming them out all the time.

So a skilled typer who doesn't bottom out on linear keyboards will be a faster typer and better gamer than someone who uses something with tactile/click and bottoms out to get that tactile feedback?

RiGS · « **Reply #17 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 13:17:24 »

I doubt that you will type faster, but you will definitely get a theoretical advantage in gaming.

Orphagn · « **Reply #18 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 14:07:34 »

Once the Red stems from KL comes in the mail i'll tkae side by side pics of the Black and Red stems.

Orphagn · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 14:40:41 »

Actually I can just take the pics when I get home. I don't know why I didn't think of doing this before since I have Black and Red boards both PCB mounted.

RiGS · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 15:11:40 »

Quote from: Orphagn;319664

Actually I can just take the pics when I get home. I don't know why I didn't think of doing this before since I have Black and Red boards both PCB mounted.

great!

Orphagn · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 18:49:00 »

Off work and took some pics. Hopefully this is good enough.

RiGS · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 18:53:27 »

LOLOLOL what a rip off!

keyboardlover · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 18:53:51 »

I'm not seeing a noticeable difference other than the spring. Thanks Orphagn!

Orphagn · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 18:55:39 »

Np guys. Glad to give back to the community somehow.
I'll take Red stems over the Black ones though. Because i'm biased like that.

RiGS · « **Reply #25 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 18:59:12 »

Clearly the only difference is the colour.
Thankfully to your picture, I appreciate my mx blacks even more.
I like the black colour better.
I need to get those aftermarket 74.6g springs.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #26 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:04:44 »

Quote from: RiGS

Also the black stem is slightly different than the red stem.

Nope.

Thank you, come again!

RiGS · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:05:35 »

Btw, the full size variable Realforce has an 55g Num Lock.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #28 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:11:37 »

What does that have to do with cherry blacks or reds?

RiGS · « **Reply #29 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:13:53 »

I could have sworn that I have seen a picture of those stems before, and there were a slight difference.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #30 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:19:34 »

Probably from that mod involving lead melting that you did.

RiGS · « **Reply #31 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:20:25 »

Oh this wasn't random. You bragged about the wiki.
The last time I told you about the num lock, you wanted proof.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:21:13 »

Where is the 104U mentioned in the wiki?

Answer: it's not in there, because lazy Americans can't purchase it yet.

=)

Orphagn · « **Reply #33 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:21:33 »

Dang, memory like an elephant.

RiGS · « **Reply #34 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:22:33 »

I reported on my 105U, to add this info to the wiki.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #35 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:24:25 »

105U != 104U != 103U

These are all different keyboards. (With slight variations of course).

isp · « **Reply #36 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:25:52 »

Quote from: RiGS;319772

LOLOLOL what a rip off!

How is it a ripoff? Nobody is forcing you to buy it, but some of us have more important things to do. If tracking down a specific spring to then mod a cheaper keyboard works for you HF...

RiGS · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:26:52 »

104U and 105U are like the 87U.
They have a shorter spacebar, and an additional windows key.
Also the pinky domes are the stiffer 35g.

RiGS · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:30:10 »

This is a ripoff, because the marketing makes you believe that those are something special, and charges extra for that. When they are clearly not.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:31:17 »

Does Ripster have to get out his supply and demand chart again?

No one told you to buy anything! Good marketing is good marketing.

At GeekHack we don't spread FUD or rumors like "red stems are different from black stems" or "Hey guyz, George Bush caused 9/11". We find the truth through scientific experimentation and make it known via the wiki.

RiGS · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:35:19 »

You probably mean that BS that suppose to make you feel better.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #41 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:36:40 »

No, I mean that you need to take Economics 101.

RiGS · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:53:27 »

Quote

We find the truth through scientific experimentation and make it known via the wiki.

Says the guy who doesn't even know how to solder.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #43 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 19:56:13 »

Lol...for those who weren't already aware that RiGS is a complete troll, here it is.

At least I know enough to not believe hype or marketing or spread incorrect information without getting the facts.

RiGS · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 20:01:53 »

I hope you are aware that you've lost this argument when you called me a troll.
People who follow the scientific approach never do that.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #45 on:** Sun, 27 March 2011, 20:09:07 »

What argument?

Well this has been fun. Goodnight, all.

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Author Topic: Reds vs Blacks and are all same colored switches the same? (Read 13547 times)