Author Topic: What this country needs is a $5 Realforce  (Read 21268 times)

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Offline spolia optima

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 07:29:04 »
discuss.
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Offline British

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 07:37:46 »
Which country does "this" relate to ?

The question of course doesn't apply if you're in the US and thus think the whole world is US.

Offline Brodie337

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 07:38:30 »
Somebody bust out the GeekHack(R) supply and demand curve...

Offline keyboardlover

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 08:01:09 »
Quote from: British;326645
The question of course doesn't apply if you're in the US and thus think the whole world is US.

?
But the US IS the whole world...

Offline strum4h

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 08:03:26 »
Geekhack Supply and Demand Curve™

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Offline spolia optima

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 08:35:51 »
I'm not much for science or economics. All I'm saying is this: If we can put a man on the moon, then we can certainly make a $5 Realforce.
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Offline snowball

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 08:48:43 »
It could be done. But slave labor is frowned upon.
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woody

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 09:00:27 »
Quote from: spolia optima;326642
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce

It's been all over the world for ages - it's called rubber domes.
They're just not capacitive.

Offline 7bit

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 09:14:05 »
Quote from: spolia optima;326675
I'm not much for science or economics. All I'm saying is this: If we can put a man on the moon, then we can certainly make a $5 Realforce.


I understand that you want the US government to sponsor every American a Realforce keyboard, such that it costs only $5.

As far as I know, these Realforce keyboards are not produced in the US. Wouldn't it be better to sponsor Unicomp keyboards to lower the unemployment rate in Kentucky by 2-5 people?
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Offline Peter

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 09:30:30 »
Well, Topre is 'Japanese' and Japan has been under US occupation since
1945 so ... In some weird backwards way, Japanese products ARE American ..

Offline RiGS

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 09:39:31 »
That animation is sick. :)
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline Brummell

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 10:28:00 »
Quote from: 7bit;326688
Wouldn't it be better to sponsor Unicomp keyboards to lower the unemployment rate in Kentucky by 2-5 people?


Does that mean we'd get more of those ****ty looking Mac keyboards?

Because if it does I'm opposed to it.
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Offline Lanx

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 10:35:54 »
The only thing that american occupation has infested into japanese culture is 2 things
1. love for christmas
2. american pop culture

it's amazing how a non christian nation celebrates xmas and with so much glee, and for how american pop culture invades japan, go google arnold swarteneggar (sp) japan commercials.

Offline godofdeath

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 10:42:39 »
well then you make us 1billion of them and then you got economics of scale to supply us wiht the 5 dollar boards
plus through in child/slave labor and you got WIN

Offline Chobopants

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 10:48:21 »
Good god no wonder it costs so much.
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Offline pitashen

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 11:37:30 »
Quote from: Peter;326699
Well, Topre is 'Japanese' and Japan has been under US occupation since
1945 so ... In some weird backwards way, Japanese products ARE American ..


wow... REALLY?! ... REALLY!!?!? Japan has been under US occupation? or WAS under US occupation? Someone needs to review his history lessons.


To OP, you are sure welcome to start up a keyboard company and make 5 bucks Topre boards at your own loss :)
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Offline BucklingSpring

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 11:46:17 »
Quote from: woody;326686
It's been all over the world for ages - it's called rubber domes.


Glad I read the responses before posting... That was my answer too.
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Offline Quest-

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 11:48:03 »
Quote from: British;326645
The question of course doesn't apply if you're in the US and thus think the whole world is US.

This is so true :D, sorry if i just insulted 90% of the forum :P
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Offline BucklingSpring

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 11:49:30 »
Quote from: pitashen;326780
To OP, you are sure welcome to start up a keyboard company and make 5 bucks Topre boards at your own loss :)


Ok... Who knows how much it cost to build a RealForce?
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
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Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline BucklingSpring

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 11:55:58 »
Quote from: ripster;326791
To be precise the whole world is DOMINATED by the US.


Says the guy who called all French "egotistical bastards".

Now try to whistle with a foot in your mouth.
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
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Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline RiGS

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 12:10:47 »
It is crazy that so many people are buying the idea of humanitarian war.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline stupefaction

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 12:30:31 »


I hope I'm not missing a joke or falling for a trap, but I'd like to point out that this graph is labeled incorrectly. As the supply of a product increases, its price tends to fall. As the demand for a product increases, its price tends to rise. Therefore, the labels of the supply and demand curves should be swapped.
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Offline stupefaction

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 12:37:16 »
Cournot says I'm an idiot.

It turns out that the graph shows supply as a function of price: as the price of a product increases, producers are able to supply more of it. Similarly, demand is a function of price: as the price goes up, consumer appetite goes down.
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 April 2011, 12:43:09 by stupefaction »
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Offline Tennobanzai

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 12:43:19 »
Quote from: Peter;326699
Well, Topre is 'Japanese' and Japan has been under US occupation since
1945 so ... In some weird backwards way, Japanese products ARE American ..

lolwut someone obviously didnt pay attention in history

Quote from: ripster;326702
Show Image

i have no idea why but this is so funny, cool and sexy all at the same time

Offline Oqsy

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 13:51:38 »
...something "-doo" economics.  Anyone?


Voodoo economics.
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Offline Oqsy

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 13:55:13 »
Furries, dude.
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Offline Ekaros

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 14:03:10 »
Quote from: Lanx;326739
The only thing that american occupation has infested into japanese culture is 2 things
1. love for christmas
2. american pop culture

it's amazing how a non christian nation celebrates xmas and with so much glee, and for how american pop culture invades japan, go google arnold swarteneggar (sp) japan commercials.


Who says christmas is christian tradition?


Church ofc, they just added Jesus to old traditions...
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
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Offline spolia optima

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 14:51:37 »
By natural right, every American citizen should have a Real force. This thread reeks of middle class. Working folks turn the soil and scrimp and save for any input device, some of them cannot even text with two thumbs because of so much intensive soil turning. And the Lucky ones? They will never be able to afford a Real force. Their productivity wavers, some smug ****er with an 86U under his arm snags their promotion and it's back to square one. Everyone deserves a Real force. The equal distribution of Topre keyboards would enhance social mobility, reduce crime, and increase general easiness, clouds of boobs, and lower taxes for everyone in the world. Path dependence. Morality. Family. America.
keyboards!

Offline pitashen

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 15:39:33 »
zzZZZZZZZzzz zzZZ * Huh? what??*
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Offline Oqsy

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 15:47:17 »
Buckling springs for the masses plz
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Offline Mr. Perfect

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 16:03:55 »
Quote from: spolia optima;326914
By natural right, every American citizen should have a Real force. This thread reeks of middle class. Working folks turn the soil and scrimp and save for any input device, some of them cannot even text with two thumbs because of so much intensive soil turning. And the Lucky ones? They will never be able to afford a Real force. Their productivity wavers, some smug ****er with an 86U under his arm snags their promotion and it's back to square one. Everyone deserves a Real force. The equal distribution of Topre keyboards would enhance social mobility, reduce crime, and increase general easiness, clouds of boobs, and lower taxes for everyone in the world. Path dependence. Morality. Family. America.


America? That's funny, I could have sworn your post was leading up to a Soviet Union endorsement. :lol: If real forces had been Russian, they'd be as plentiful as AK47s.
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Offline BucklingSpring

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 16:28:52 »
Quote from: spolia optima;326914
By natural right, every American citizen should have a Real force.


Isn't what NRA stands for? National RealFarce Association.

And here's the former National RealFarce Association president and his loveley wife


Who said chimps had no taste?
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline Ekaros

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 17:17:00 »
Quote from: Mr. Perfect;326950
America? That's funny, I could have sworn your post was leading up to a Soviet Union endorsement. :lol: If real forces had been Russian, they'd be as plentiful as AK47s.


Uuh, and us Finns would have second or most finest copy ;D
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Offline celery

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 20:11:51 »
Quote from: spolia optima;326675
I'm not much for science or economics. All I'm saying is this: If we can put a man on the moon, then we can certainly make a $5 Realforce.


I agree. But we put a man on a Nevada soundstage, hence the $5 rubber domes instead.

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 05:08:02 »
If a Realforce cost 5$, then rubber dome keyboards would cost less than ten cents.

Nothing that is so valuable comes with cheap price.
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Offline trievalot

  • Posts: 246
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 05:15:14 »
hear hear for the value of a topre...methinks the op for this thread may have been trolling and recieved plenty of fine morsels in return.
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Offline The Solutor

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 06:15:34 »
Quote from: ripster;326750
Actually the Mechanical Engineer that designed the Topre rubber mat manufacturing process should be shot.  These things must take a lot of time to piece together.
Show Image


Really, what makes the Topre keyboards costly is  just the patent.

Build a topre is surely not too different from building a plain membrane keyboard.

And is waaaay simpler than produce a microswitches keyboard where every single switch is a  piece to mount and, in turn, every switch requires a lot of work to assemble it.

Starting from the 200$ cost of a topre, a mechanical backlit keyboard should cost something like 2000$, a scissors switch something like 800$, and a classic rubber dome, something like 100$
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Offline Human

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 07:06:57 »
Quote from: ripster;326791
To be precise the whole world is DOMINATED by the US.



Offline Brummell

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 07:13:33 »
Quote from: Human;327257
Show Image


That looks about right.
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Offline Human

  • Posts: 596
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 07:21:17 »
Quote from: Brummell;327263
That looks about right.


Here is the refined edition.

Offline Lpb45

  • Posts: 481
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 10:43:11 »
Quote from: Human;327257
Show Image


perfect except mexico needs to be does lawncare and cooks our food as 99% of laundrymats and drycleaners in the us are run by asians
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Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 12:32:11 »
I even saw a mexican handle a Wok like a pro in the village (NYC) last december. They are taking over, oh noes!

Offline hate

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 12:44:08 »


the cups are too damn high !
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Offline NeverDie

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 14:19:35 »
Quote from: spolia optima;326642
discuss.


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Offline .XL

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 14:29:01 »
I prefer the Realforces at their currnt high price point. A company that makes good profit selling to a niche market has little need to cut corners when it comes to building their goods. Topre boards can be built with high quality materials and still make a good profit, eliminating the need to cut costs.

Luxury goods demand a higher price. Sure the rx8 with a turbo in it is almost as fast as my Audi s5, but the Audi costs more than twice as much. Does that make it not worth it?
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Offline .XL

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 14:50:28 »
Quote from: ripster;327509
It's expensive because it IS built in Japan.  And Japan isn't a third world country like China.

China has a middle class almost 100million larger than the population of the US and Canada. Their buying power alone is half of all of North America. Their middle class, on average, makes as much as the average upper middle class here in the US. Combine that with the extremely low costs in China and you have a scary proposition...a huge population of newly rich that prefers local goods over foreign, because of their wide availability and easy replaceabiliy...

China has very high quality goods, it's just that most of them are consumed in the country. Made in Japan vs Made in China doesn't really matter anymore.
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Offline quadibloc

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 14:56:04 »
Obviously, the statement is modeled on the old saw "What this country needs is a good 5-cent cigar". In actual fact, a $20 Realforce - low enough to match in price the cheap rubber dome keyboards out there - would be entirely sufficient to solve this country's problems!

Is this an impossible dream? Well, making the keyboard capacitative just means changing the electronics. Putting springs under every dome shouldn't be that bad. There's no reason why the keyboard could not have just a single sheet of rubber domes like ordinary rubber dome keyboards.

So all we have to do is wait for Topre's patents to expire!

Whereas a $20 buckling-spring keyboard, or a $20 beam-spring keyboard, is likely an impossible dream, as those things have too many little parts, and thus are too complicated to make.

Although, no doubt, a made-in-China buckling-spring keyboard could be under $50 - but experience hints that it would be unlikely to be much good. And even for $20 people wouldn't buy it, because they would complain it was too noisy.

Quote from: .XL;327514
China has very high quality goods, it's just that most of them are consumed in the country. Made in Japan vs Made in China doesn't really matter anymore.
The SONY PS3 was manufactured in China. It's certainly true that quality goods are made in China, even for export. The trouble is, though, that with exported Chinese goods sold directly by a Chinese firm, as opposed to Chinese-made goods made to the specifications of a Western firm - it's difficult for us to find the quality ones, and it's difficult for those Chinese companies that do care about quality to overcome their country's bad reputation in this area, so I'm not surprised they stick to the domestic market.
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 April 2011, 15:02:11 by quadibloc »

Offline ch_123

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What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 15:31:31 »
I'd say the keycaps of a Topre keyboard alone would make up most of the $5.

Offline elef

  • Posts: 146
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 15:42:14 »
Quote from: .XL;327514


China has very high quality goods, it's just that most of them are consumed in the country. Made in Japan vs Made in China doesn't really matter anymore.


Except that it does. The fact that high quality products get made in China (alongside the midrange stuff and enormous mountains of absolute garbage) doesn't change the simple fact that stuff made in Japan is never going to be as cheap as roughly equivalent stuff made in China. Cheap labour is cheap labour.

I'm not even going to mention the fact that if "most of them are consumed in the country", then they aren't going to matter much to this forums North American and European members.

Offline The Solutor

  • Posts: 2262
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 15:47:38 »
Quote from: ch_123;327535
I'd say the keycaps of a Topre keyboard alone would make up most of the $5.


I pay a reasonably well built rubber dome keyboard something like 3.5 €, here in Italy. After the shipment cost, the import fees,  and anything else...

So , I presume that one of those keyboards doesn't cost more than 40/50 cents at the origin.

Considering that feel free to add more restrictive tolerance, better plastics, better quality control, the metal spring and so on a topre keyboard should fit in the 5€ price range, if built in china.

I suppose they are built in Japan so you have to multiply that number by a factor of 4 or 5, so probably the raw cost of a topre keyboard is around the 20/25 euro mark.

The rest is just marketing.
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