Matias Tactile Pro Limited Edition Silver and Black available for pre-order

[Matias]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to our issues!

Glad to do it...

As i mentioned in an earlier post, the feel of this keyboard is superb; my issue was with the case itself.  Let's assume you are correct and the durability of the case is not an issue. There are still areas where a bit more attention to detail would have been appreciated.  For instance, Filco's case may be cheaper but they place 4 rubber feet on the base of their boards; they even include 2 on the base of the extendable feet. You have 2 at the front of the keyboard (and that's it!). I find my keyboard slides around on my desk when I'm typing and I've never had that happen before.

That shouldn't happen.  Do you use it with the feet extended?

I'm glad that someone is producing a quality keyboard for the Mac; and considering the fact that you are here and listening, I'm confident that your product will continue to improve!

Yes, we're pretty keen on making sure our stuff improves over time.  The current one is version 3.  There won't be a version 4 anytime soon, but you'll see some new related products in the coming months.

[Matias]

Try editing the ALPS wiki sometime.

It's what has driven me to my current mental state.

Recreating a legacy switch is no walk in the park either... :-)

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That shouldn't happen.  Do you use it with the feet extended?

My white TP3 slides about on my desk, pivoting around the side that grips – it's pretty awful. I thought it was just the design of the feet, which seem to be made for minimal grip possible, but my Dell AT101W has the same problem, where only one side grips. No issues with my FILCO, or my Tulip, and the Topre is affected but much less so.

The desk is probably a bit bananad, and the design of the feet on some keyboards assumes a flawlessly flat desk. Diatec clearly know how to make feet that work.

As for the ping, it may be a Fukka design flaw, although the TP3 may amplify it as it's far more pronounced than anything else I've used.

[Blendama]

That shouldn't happen.  Do you use it with the feet extended?

Yes I do use it with the feet extended. I've read on a few forums that this is an issue for others as well. A bit more spent on rubber feet could have made a big difference!

[mmmty]

Typing on my new TP3 S&B. I think it's a keeper. I can see why some people are complaining about the THOCK. The backspace key has a big THOCK too. But it's not a deal breaker for me. I like keystrokes on TP3 more than my Filco Zero. Both keyboards have similar feel but TP3 is a little bit easier to type.

Maybe I spoke too soon. It keyboard stopped working twice already. Some sort of driver issue with my Win 7 64-bit.

Just looked at the manual - I guess I need to go to matias website and download Windows drivers for it.

[mmmty]

Typing on my new TP3 S&B. I think it's a keeper. I can see why some peole are complaing about the THOCK. The backspae key has a big thock too. but it's not a deal breaker for me . I like kystrokes on TP3 mor ethan my Filco zero. Both keyboards have similar feel but TP3 is a little bit easier to type.

Maybe I spoke too soon. It keyboard stopped working twice already. Some sort of driver issue with my Win 7 64-bit.

[kraise]

I ordered a Silver & Black version a few days ago to replace my default Mac keyboard at work (and to be used at home on occasion). I'm excited to try my first Alps switch keyboard and something more tactile than my Flico with Cherry MX Reds.

I will definitely post a response to this thread with my thoughts when I receive mine (hopefully soon).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Typing on my new TP3 S&B. I think it's a keeper. I can see why some people are complaining about the THOCK. The backspace key has a big THOCK too. But it's not a deal breaker for me.

The spacebar never stood out to me as being any louder. The one keyboard that does bother me is the Unicomp Spacesaver as the spacebar is too quiet! It doesn't click or clack anywhere near as loud as the other keys, which is really unusual, and I miss my clangy spacebar on that keyboard The spacebar is always going to be louder, in particular my Cherry blue FILCO which has a particularly resounding spacebar.

Maybe I spoke too soon. It keyboard stopped working twice already. Some sort of driver issue with my Win 7 64-bit.

Just looked at the manual - I guess I need to go to matias website and download Windows drivers for it.

WTF??? How can a USB HID keyboard be incompatible with Windows? The more I use Windows 7 the more annoyed I get with it, though. Some programs still flicker – I thought Aero Glass and all that offscreen buffering jazz finally did away with the atrocious flicker that's plagued Windows since forever? (I guess maybe Windows only off-screen buffers those programs that let it know that they're ready for it ... who knows. Apparently MMC isn't ready for my flicker-free Windoze experience.)

No problems with the TP3 in Windows XP, aside from having to relearn which way around Windows and Alt go. The "driver" that Matias provide to "swap" the keys is a flagrant joke. It's a compiled AutoHotkey script (therefore you can't debug it), with all the obvious limitations, such as not working across remote access sessions. And it doesn't work anyway (keeps leaving the Alt key stuck down) – it's easier to relearn the layout than battle their AutoHotkey abuse. You either do it right, or you don't do it at all.

[Matias]

My white TP3 slides about on my desk, pivoting around the side that grips – it's pretty awful. I thought it was just the design of the feet, which seem to be made for minimal grip possible, but my Dell AT101W has the same problem, where only one side grips. No issues with my FILCO, or my Tulip, and the Topre is affected but much less so.

The desk is probably a bit bananad, and the design of the feet on some keyboards assumes a flawlessly flat desk. Diatec clearly know how to make feet that work.

Understood.

A keyboard is like a table with 4 legs.  If the floor is uneven, it will rock back and forth on the 2 legs that constantly touch.  A similar thing is happening with your keyboard.  It's easy to correct...

Look straight on at the front edge of the keyboard and see which silicone pad is not touching the desk.  Peal back the silicone pad and place a small piece of double-sided tape under it.  This adds a little extra height to compensate for the uneven-ness of your desk.  You may have to put more than one piece under it.

Believe or not, this sort of thing is fairly common in the manufacture of keyboards (and tables).  In production, they'll use thin plastic inserts (rather than double-sided tape) but the net effect is the same.

[Matias]

I didn't get any ping on mine but what I did get was a severely amplified THOCK on the space bar.  It sounded/felt completely bizarre.  It took the same amount of pressure to depress but when it comes back up it has around 5g of extra release with amplified sound.  Bizarre!

The wider keys have a balance bar mechanism that allows you to press any spot on the key, and the whole key will go down (rather than seesaw).  That mechanism changes the force curve a little, and combined with the larger key mass also changes the sound.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

A keyboard is like a table with 4 legs.  If the floor is uneven, it will rock back and forth on the 2 legs that constantly touch.  A similar thing is happening with your keyboard.

No, all four feet make contact and it doesn't rock. It's perfectly steady solid to type on, it just doesn't grip. I haven't figured out yet what's wrong with the feet, but I'm not sure the rubber grips on the front feet are even glued on straight, and the rear legs have very little grip surface and very poor desk tolerances. The desk is a little out it seems, but not enough to faze a cheaper FILCO with a bog standard Costar case, which serves me fine all day every day.

This is standard product design fare – too many companies re-inventing the same products and never learning from each other, so the same mistakes end up being made over and over (even within the same company, like Dell moving over to textured cases on laptops that instantly grease up, after years of smooth, grease-free cases). Even Topre feet are sub-optimal, which is poor considering the price point, but nowhere near as bad.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The wider keys have a balance bar mechanism that allows you to press any spot on the key, and the whole key will go down (rather than seesaw).  That mechanism changes the force curve a little, and combined with the large key mass also changes the sound.

I think we get that much However, the sound varies from keyboard to keyboard. As I said, on a Spacesaver the spacebar is disturbingly quiet!

[Matias]

It keyboard stopped working twice already. Some sort of driver issue with my Win 7 64-bit.

Windows has always had klunky USB support.  It doesn't even run the USB keyboard and mouse drivers until you plug one in.  That's why you have to wait for a while, the first time you plug a particular device in.  It's completely retarded.

In contrast, the Mac OS loads the drivers at boot time, so any keyboard/mouse works the instant you plug it in.

Just looked at the manual - I guess I need to go to matias website and download Windows drivers for it.

The driver is optional.  As another poster mentioned, it's just an Autohotkey script that remaps the position of the Option & Command keys to the PC standard Windows & Alt.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Windows has always had klunky USB support.  It doesn't even run the USB keyboard and mouse drivers until you plug one in.  That's why you have to wait for a while, the first time you plug a particular device in.  It's completely retarded.

It appears (though I can't be certain) that it's scanning its hardware directory to select drivers for the device, and HID is not prioritised over the millions of other devices that Windows recognises; consider that the same process occurs if you connect a second USB keyboard while one is already connected, even though the HID drivers are loaded and running. If you remove the keyboard from one USB port and plug it into another, it becomes a whole new piece of hardware as driver assignment is keyed to the individual USB ports, triggering a fresh driver search all over again. I agree that it's pretty messed up, but no doubt Chief Apologist Comrade Chen will find some whiney excuse about why useless developers forced Microsoft's hand on this decades ago. USBDeview will display all the current port–device assignments, including every USB device that you have ever connected to that PC in the history of ever (except where you have explicitly dissasociated the drivers via uninstallation).

That aside, does anyone else have problems with Windows losing track of keyboards in 7? I can't speak from experience as I only have 7 on a laptop. I think it would be pretty shocking if true.

What Mac OS has, that I continue to envy, is a complete tree of all connected USB devices! I mean, even Mac OS 8 had that (inside the old Apple System Profiler). Seriously MSFT?

[Matias]

No, all four feet make contact and it doesn't rock. It's perfectly steady solid to type on, it just doesn't grip. I haven't figured out yet what's wrong with the feet, but I'm not sure the rubber grips on the front feet are even glued on straight, and the rear legs have very little grip surface and very poor desk tolerances. The desk is a little out it seems, but not enough to faze a cheaper FILCO with a bog standard Costar case, which serves me fine all day every day.

It could be your desk is a little dusty.  Try wiping it down, and then wiping down the pads with a damp cloth.

This is standard product design fare – too many companies re-inventing the same products and never learning from each other, so the same mistakes end up being made over and over (even within the same company, like Dell moving over to textured cases on laptops that instantly grease up, after years of smooth, grease-free cases). Even Topre feet are sub-optimal, which is poor considering the price point, but nowhere near as bad.

Sometimes it's that, but often it's design tradeoffs.

In Dell's case, they're under constant pressure to compete on price.  You're not gonna get a Mercedes for the price of a Volkswagen, so it's a race to the bottom.  That's why HP wants out of the PC market.  It's too price competitive.  Competition is good, but too much competition wrecks markets.

[Matias]

I think we get that much However, the sound varies from keyboard to keyboard. As I said, on a Spacesaver the spacebar is disturbingly quiet!

A Honda is not gonna sound like a Ferrari.  Different mechanics will always produce a different sound.

[mmmty]

I think the problem was fixed after I plugged it straight into USB port instead of into USB extension cable.

[NormaJean]

It could be your desk is a little dusty.  Try wiping it down, and then wiping down the pads with a damp cloth.

That's what I was thinking, I'm not having any issues with my keyboard sliding off my desk.

I've been using it at home for about a week now and I'm growing really fond of it, I wish it wasn't so noisy so I could bring it at work then again I love it's sound. It has a lot more meat to it than say cherry blues and it also feels awesome.

Thank you for this quality product, I had been waiting for it for quite a while and it did not disapoint

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Looks like I've pulled into Misinformation Central. Good thing I got a return ticket …

[kraise]

So I just opened and have been playing with my brand new Matias Tactile Pro Limited Edition Silver & Black and I must add that it arrived a lot faster than I expected!

And now just my own quick thoughts as I type on it:

In my opinion the build quality is fine. The silver paint job isn't spectacular (and not in a bad way, just that it's quite obvious that it is not aluminum) but it matches quite well with my MacBook Pro's aluminum casing which is, I assume, similar to the casing on my iMac at work. It is similar to the color of the plastic found on the silver keys of the pre-2008/unibody models of MacBook Pros, not exactly but close. I personally like the color scheme as I was never a fan of Apple's white keyboards anyway and I found them to get dirty quite easily, especially the keys. Also, I must add that with the back feet extended, the left side in particular seems to slide around a bit but seems to be fine when they aren't.

I absolutely love the feel so far and beginning to enjoy the click-clacking sound of the keys but I can see the latter being annoying to my neighboring coworkers (fortunately most of them wear earphones/headsets). But I'll be bringing it to the office tomorrow to give it a test run and see what the general consensus is... The keys do 'ping' a bit but seriously, it's not that bad and if it bothers you that much I think you're better off finding a completely different switch.

I do love the keyboard and the only thing I can say at the moment is that I wish there were more media keys (specifically: previous, play/pause, and next). I also don't particularly like all the extra legends printed on the keys since I've memorized the ones that I frequently use but I see the benefits of them to the general audience and overall I am entirely happy with the purchase. I've only been playing with this thing for the last 20-30 minutes and I really haven't explored it much so I'll probably have more to add later.

[devouringone3]

,

[mmmty]

Matias TP3 has Fukka. It feels pretty much like my Filco Zero.

[devouringone3]

,

[Magna224]

This thread needs pics.

[mmmty]

This thread needs pics.

Here you go...

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 28552[/ATTACH]

[mmmty]

Looks like I'll have to send it back. I've been using it for 2 days at work and every time I unlock my PC the keyboard goes a little crazy if I start typing right away. I guess the "driver" takes a few seconds to reload.

[Matias]

I think the problem was fixed after I plugged it straight into USB port instead of into USB extension cable.

Oh okay, that explains it...

There are strict limits on how long USB cables can be -- 3 metres for USB 1.1, and 5m for USB 2.0. The lengths are limited by signal propagation.  If you plug the Tactile Pro into an extension cable, that can push it past the maximum cable length.

[Matias]

I've been using it at home for about a week now and I'm growing really fond of it, I wish it wasn't so noisy so I could bring it at work then again I love it's sound.

Yes, that's really the only downside to mechanical keyboards.  We're working on a quieter version, but it won't be done until next year.

It has a lot more meat to it than say cherry blues and it also feels awesome.

Thank you for this quality product, I had been waiting for it for quite a while and it did not disapoint

Glad you're happy with it.  :-)

[Matias]

ALPS Simplified Type-1 aren't what we call "Fukkas"? I always thought Matias TP3 had Fukkas but I've just been contradicted by Ripster on the ALPSulator thread.

Yeah, they're Fukkas.

[Matias]

Thanks for the rapid check in , I have also bought on of these keyboard calculator and I was wondering exactly which keyswitches were which. Better Fukkas in Matias, and poorer XMs in what ripster named ALPSulator (I'll assume, even though I think it still hasn't been proven).

The XM switches are truly awful. They made zero effort to recreate the authentic Alps feel. Their internal structure is completely different.  I don't know how Xiang Min has been able to sell them.

I never knew Edgar was on Geekhack. I like that he took some time off to come and sort things out and respond to us.

I've been reading Geekhack for years.  There's no better place for keyboard junkies to find info and advice.  Sadly, most of it is Cherry related.  :-)

[itlnstln]

most of it is Cherry related.  :-)

Well, we only appreciate the best.

*Ducks*

[Matias]

do love the keyboard and the only thing I can say at the moment is that I wish there were more media keys (specifically: previous, play/pause, and next).

Unfortunately, this is how the MacOS handles non-Apple® keyboards.  You can get those media key functions by installing SizzlingKeys... (which is free)

http://yellowmug.com/sk4it

[Matias]

Looks like I'll have to send it back. I've been using it for 2 days at work and every time I unlock my PC the keyboard goes a little crazy if I start typing right away. I guess the "driver" takes a few seconds to reload.

That's not normal.  You must have gotten a dud.  Contact help@matias.ca and we'll arrange a replacement.

[Matias]

You guys call them Fukkas too?  Seems like a bad translation.  Kinda fukka'd up.

I call them 福華 (Fuhua) but everyone here seems to have decided to call them Fukkas.

[Matias]

most of it is Cherry related. :-)

Well, we only appreciate the best.

*Ducks*

McDonald's is also very popular...  ;-)

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

I'm digging the silver body. I hope they do a version with white key caps, it'll look better than black IMO.

[itlnstln]

McDonald's is also very popular...  ;-)

Well, we only appre...  Oh, wait...

[kraise]

Unfortunately, this is how the MacOS handles non-Apple® keyboards.  You can get those media key functions by installing SizzlingKeys... (which is free)

http://yellowmug.com/sk4it

Thanks! Just installed it on work computer and seems to be working great! Now to memorize all the combinations...

[mmmty]

That's not normal.  You must have gotten a dud.  Contact help@matias.ca and we'll arrange a replacement.

I think I narrowed it down to running Win 7 Enterprise in VHD. I dual boot Win 7 Pro (normal install) and Win 7 Ent in VHD and it only happens when I'm in VHD.

[devouringone3]

,

[Brian8bit]

Just bumping (having read through) this thread.

Daniel Beardsmore: You are right about the lack of grip with the feet and pads on the bottom of the TP3. It's got bugger all to do with dusty or bowed desks. It doesn't matter what desk you put it on, there's absolutely no traction provided by the two pads that are stuck to the bottom of the keyboard. And the legs offer no additional traction whatsoever. In short, traction is ****. I gave up using mine with the legs extended because regardless of the desk it was on, the board went skating. Or maybe lots and lots of people just have very dusty and bowed desks.

But to the main reason for my bumping: Is anyone else using this on OS X, or are you all using it under Windows? The reason I ask is that I'm now having behaviour problems with my own Tactile Pro on OS X Lion. Occasionally the keyboard goes full derp and pressing keys ends up opening the applications, documents or downloads folder and other such things. It also screws up my mouse behaviour and if I try opening say Safari by clicking on the icon on the bottom bar, so I can google "tactile pro 3 faulty" it opens the applications folder again and trying to type anything has random windows popping open and close and selecting elements in various applications or shutting applications. To get the keyboard behaving properly again I have to unplug and plug it back in. It's actually been doing this for a while, but it's the first time I've had it plugged in for a time because I got so fed up with the board, I've been predominantly using the SMK-88 instead. But within 15 minutes of plugging in the Tactile Pro 3 today, it goes full derp again.

[skyekeeper]

Just bumping (having read through) this thread.

Daniel Beardsmore: You are right about the lack of grip with the feet and pads on the bottom of the TP3. It's got bugger all to do with dusty or bowed desks. It doesn't matter what desk you put it on, there's absolutely no traction provided by the two pads that are stuck to the bottom of the keyboard. And the legs offer no additional traction whatsoever. In short, traction is ****. I gave up using mine with the legs extended because regardless of the desk it was on, the board went skating. Or maybe lots and lots of people just have very dusty and bowed desks.

But to the main reason for my bumping: Is anyone else using this on OS X, or are you all using it under Windows? The reason I ask is that I'm now having behaviour problems with my own Tactile Pro on OS X Lion. Occasionally the keyboard goes full derp and pressing keys ends up opening the applications, documents or downloads folder and other such things. It also screws up my mouse behaviour and if I try opening say Safari by clicking on the icon on the bottom bar, so I can google "tactile pro 3 faulty" it opens the applications folder again and trying to type anything has random windows popping open and close and selecting elements in various applications or shutting applications. To get the keyboard behaving properly again I have to unplug and plug it back in. It's actually been doing this for a while, but it's the first time I've had it plugged in for a time because I got so fed up with the board, I've been predominantly using the SMK-88 instead. But within 15 minutes of plugging in the Tactile Pro 3 today, it goes full derp again.

Hello:

This is my first post on this board, but not my first mechanical keyboard.

I am using the keyboard on OS X, Lion, and the works great. I have none of the problems you described. Maybe you just got a bad keyboard.

You are right about the traction, though in my case it’s not so bad. It does not move when I am typing or working with it, but the slighted lateral pressure will move it. It’s no worse than other keyboard I have owned, and better than some of them. I have one that actually attached to keyboard tray with Velcro to keep it from moving.

I really like this keyboard. I have the white one.

//skyekeeper

[REVENGE]

How interesting, I didn't know Matias had a rep on this site. If I may, I suggest you design your next board using Cherry switches instead, the 福華 switches don't seem particularly robust. My keyboard had around 5 switches that didn't fire properly.

Also, the driver utility you include for PCs is not very useful since many programs don't honor its remaps. That seems to include Windows for key combos.

[Brian8bit]

Hello:

This is my first post on this board, but not my first mechanical keyboard.

I am using the keyboard on OS X, Lion, and the works great. I have none of the problems you described. Maybe you just got a bad keyboard.

You are right about the traction, though in my case it’s not so bad. It does not move when I am typing or working with it, but the slighted lateral pressure will move it. It’s no worse than other keyboard I have owned, and better than some of them. I have one that actually attached to keyboard tray with Velcro to keep it from moving.

I really like this keyboard. I have the white one.

//skyekeeper

Thanks for your reply skyekeeper. After a bit of messing around with the keyboard, I've narrowed it down to my right command key sticking. If you hold command and click any of the icons on the bar along the bottom, it will open the applications folder and highlight select the application you have clicked such as Safari, Mail or iChat. Same thing if you hit the command + space bar (it opens spotlight search). It's just the left key sticking in my case. I can press the command key and release it, then with the mouse press an application icon and it'll open the applications folder or press the spacebar and open spotlight. You then have to press the command key again a few times to unstick it. So I'll pull the keycap once I get my hands on a proper keycap puller (I'm using paper clip home made one at the minute) and look to see if anything is stuck in there. I hope it's just debris stuck in there and not a knackered switch :ohwell: Even though I'm right handed, it's the left command switch I use most so it gets quite annoying.

[iBro]

Those are actually decent. They're pretty good as far as rubber domes go and miles better than the ones that preceded them:

Show Image

Oh god I used to own that keyboard. Thanks for reminding me :ohwell: