Author Topic: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO  (Read 629308 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #550 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 20:58:20 »
Since it only samples when the clock line changes state, any changes in the data line have actually happened before they are shown on the graph.

New improved version (sorry __red__!) now samples whenever any of PD0 to PD3 change, and at higher time resolution. Plus a hacked together MFC app to parse and draw them nicely without messing about.

All traces are from the release code for 'Z'...

IBM PC/XT:
7102-0

Leading Edge:
7104-1

IBM PC/XT:
7106-2

Leading Edge:
7108-3

Offline Arbiter343GS

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #551 on: Wed, 07 November 2012, 22:39:45 »
I actually did this project about a month ago after I bought a 122 key model M off of ebay and it went perfectly. I honestly just have no clue how to remap it so I can make use of the extra keys. Could someone point me in the right direction?

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #552 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 06:55:19 »
I have used Key Tweak, but most people seem to prefer Auto Hot Key.

I plan to try AHK when I rework my rig.
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Arbiter343GS

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #553 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 09:58:03 »
Ive been trying auto hotkey but I have no idea how to go about programming the extra keys as another key press like a windows key.

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #554 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 10:24:54 »
Remappings are best done in the converter because then there's no restrictions (like autohotkey) or rebooting (like keytweak). (But I also use autohotkey for some things).

First things first... have you got the v1.0 zip as well the latest? (since it contains the docs and tools etc).

There's a few samples in the configs folder, and there's also a few in this thread (best to scan through backwards to find them).
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 November 2012, 10:29:41 by Soarer »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #555 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 16:02:07 »
Do you remember that I went through hours/days of anguish trying to get a Teensy to work, once about a month ago and once about a month before that? I ran out of time each time and gave up for a while. I also ordered a new Teensy which I never took out of the envelope until today.

So, after lunch, I got out the old Teensy and wired it up every which way to my 2 Model F-122s - absolutely nothing.

Then, I cracked open the new Teensy, did the standard setup, and it worked right away on both boards!

Clearly, I have a bad Teensy on my hands. Whether it came that way or not, I don't know. I might have screwed it up myself, because at one point I did solder wires to 4 of the leads, as well as putzing around in several other ways.

Has anybody else gotten a defective Teensy, and should I, in all fairness, ask for a replacement?

I have bought a total of 4 units, and the people out there are so very nice I would not want to take advantage of them, but I really do think that this one was probably defective.

You said that if I wired it up improperly, it was likely to cook the controller on the keyboard and not the Teensy, and clearly I did not kill the boards, whatever I did, right or wrong.

So what do you think I should do?

“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #556 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 18:01:48 »
That's a tough one to call!

I think the only likely way to electrically damage a Teensy when making this converter would be to connect +5V to one of the input pins (data or clock), or to connect ground directly to one of the LED driving pins. But there could be other ways, perhaps more indirect, to cause damage.

It's also possible to physically damage PCB pads and traces. That damage would usually be visible, although perhaps only with magnification.

They say that "all Teensy boards come fully assembled and tested", so I doubt they'll take one back.

I could put together some sort of 'self-test' program for a Teensy fairly easily, but it would require making a few connections on the Teensy. Nothing complicated, just joining PD0 and PD1 to a couple of other pins so input and output functions can be tested.

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #557 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 19:50:56 »
I emailed "Paul" and he was nice but I am not going to push for a replacement. He is going to look up my order first.

I am pretty sure that all my wiring was correct, but the one boo-boo I might have made was when I had alligator clips on some of my leads.

It is possible that they might have flopped around and touched each other .....

My HUGE relief is knowing that I did not wreck the circuit boards on either of the keyboards.

$23 will put a new Teensy in my mailbox in 72 hours, but it takes months to find a Model F and almost the price of the Teensy in shipping alone. And that is domestic US.
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #558 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 21:03:11 »
Yes, that is a relief. I've used about half a dozen Teensies, and had no bad ones. I haven't killed one yet either, but it's bound to happen at some point! :D

I made a few one-off versions that use the PD2 and PD3 pins instead, as part of improving the XT mode to handle oTurtlez Leading Edge. (The XT mode changes will only benefit those who have XT 'boards that don't currently work with the converter, and there will be a proper release soon that includes them, using the normal pins). I don't plan on making alternate-pin versions available regularly, but it might mean you can use that Teensy for something...  * Soarer_at2usb_v1.06_atmega32u4_PD2Data_PD3Clock.zip (15.4 kB - downloaded 144 times.).

Offline wcass

  • Posts: 506
  • Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #559 on: Thu, 08 November 2012, 21:14:56 »
I actually did this project about a month ago after I bought a 122 key model M off of ebay and it went perfectly. I honestly just have no clue how to remap it so I can make use of the extra keys. Could someone point me in the right direction?
it is actually quite easy. first, go to the DOCS folder and double-click on index.html. since you only need help re-mapping keys, go to the Config section and read the Command Reference. if you are starting with a 122 then you probably will only need to study/learn remapblock. you will also need to learn (or keep a cheat sheet handy) what the program expects you to name any keys you will be working with. you will find these in the Codes section. then open one or more of the .sc files in notepad and look at these as examples.

create your own sc file with a text editor. start with a comment line (line begins with #) that identifies what you are trying to do. add a line remapblock to start the remap block. list the keys you want to change and what you want to change each to. then close the remap block with the endblock command. save this file with a .sc extension.

Code: [Select]
# Billy's TSSK layout

remapblock
        F7     DELETE
        F8     END
        F9     PAGE_DOWN
        F10    LEFT
        F11    DOWN
        F12    RIGHT
        F13    F7
        F14    F8
        F15    F9
        F16    F10
        F17    F11
        F18    F12
        F19    INSERT
        F20    HOME
        F21    PAGE_UP
        F22    SCROLL_LOCK
        F23    UP
        F24    PAUSE
    FAKE_06    BACKSLASH
    FAKE_08    ESC
    FAKE_09    PRINTSCREEN
    FAKE_10    MEDIA_MEDIA_SELECT
    FAKE_11    MEDIA_PLAY_PAUSE
    FAKE_12    MEDIA_PREV_TRACK
    FAKE_13    MEDIA_NEXT_TRACK
    FAKE_14    MEDIA_VOLUME_DOWN
    FAKE_15    MEDIA_VOLUME_UP
    FAKE_16    APP
    FAKE_17    LGUI
endblock

open a dos prompt. navigate to your tools folder and drag&drop scas.exe to the command prompt, but don't run it yet. add a space to the end and then drag&drop your custom .sc file to the end of the command line - don't run it yet. add a space and then drag&drop the same .sc file - and then add a B to the end. now hit enter to run the command. this "compiles" your code. you will find it in the same folder as your SC file but with SCB as the file extension.

now that your custom file is compiled, you need to send that to the teensy. drag&drop scwr.exe into the command window, add a space, and then drag&drop your .SCB file to the end of the command line. hit enter to program.

test your newly remapped keys to verify that they are remapped.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 November 2012, 16:03:08 by wcass »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #560 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 12:04:04 »
The last leg of this trip has been surprisingly difficult, but I now have my working outboard converter box.

It is set up to use my genuine IBM female DIN plug to fit the Model F 122-key terminal connection.

Soarer, thank you so much for making this possible!

“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Krogenar

  • The Kontrarian
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1265
  • Location: Eastchester, NY
  • "DO NOT BRING YOUR EVIL HERE." -Swamp Thing
    • Buried Planet
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #561 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 14:03:25 »
Nice build fohat!
GeekHack Artwork Resources | The Living GeekHack Logo Thread | Signature Plastics ABS Chip Scanning Project | Krog Flocks Around | Keyboard Color Scheme Archive | [GB] PBT DyeSub DSA Granite Set
More
Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #562 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 14:27:00 »
Arrgh! I spoke too soon about my ecstasy.

My old build, F-122 with internal Teensy and Soarer's Converter v0.997 (I think it was) and KeyTweak to remap my keys, has performed admirably for a year.

So, in my happiness, and desire to have a clean update, I downloaded the latest version of KeyTweak and tried to remap my mostly "stock" F-122 running through the new converter box on v1.03.

I had forgotten the grief I had with the numpad. I would really love to have an ANSI-standard numpad (except with a 2nd "Escape" in place of "NumLock")

For whatever reason, the top row is "stuck" and will not let me change it. The left 2 keys act like they are remapping, but don't, and the upper right ("Pause", which I want to be "Numpad -") does not even seem to exist with KeyTweak.

Also, KeyTweak does not seem to recognize the left set of function keys, staying grayed-out altogether when I try to remap them.

hid_listen.exe returns a response to all these keys, but I cannot get the response you show in the OP to see what ID I have. When I run hid_listen, it just starts "listening" without returning any information first.

This board is a 6110347 and does not have DIP switches. Like my other one, there is only one way the controller will plug in.

I remember that last year I fooled around trying to find another way to plug in the connectors, looking for a type 1 or type 2 or something, but there was not other viable option.

Eventually, everything worked except "Pause" so I decided to tolerate it.

Thanks in advance if you can steer me towards a solution.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 November 2012, 14:39:25 by fohat.digs »
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Halvar

  • Posts: 403
  • Location: Germany
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #563 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 15:13:42 »
hid_listen only shows the ID when the teensy is started. So to see it, unplug your keyboard, start hid_listen, and plug in the keyboard again.

Did you use a remap/confiig file for Soarer's converter at all?

If you didn't, you could start by writing one and try how far you can get without using KeyTweak at all.

I use my M-122 with a config file for Soarer's converter only. I posted the config file here http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.msg658161#msg658161
You'll probably want other mappings, but it's easier to start with a config file that already has all the relevant key names for your keyboard.

Halvar

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #564 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 15:55:14 »
Yes, the solution is to use a config file and do the remapping on the Teensy - wcass' guide above covers it pretty well (thanks Billy!), and of course we'll help if you get stuck!

Halvar is right, the ID is only printed when the converter is first connected to the computer. You might be thinking of the hacked in alternate mappings I provided before that were enabled by changing the ID - those are now obsolete (although they can be emulated by a config, e.g. legacy.sc, that's not ideal).

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #565 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 16:32:03 »
Thank you.

When I hot plug the Teensy, I get:

wED rFE !!FEwED rFE !!FEwED rFE !!FE


The keys on the left (which I DO still want as an extra F1-F10, they are very handy there) return:

r05  "F1"
r06  "F2" etc
r04 
r0C
r03
r0B
r83  why is "F7" different?
r0A
r01
r09

I understand that I have to give up on remapping "Pause" to "NumPad -" but I had the other 2 remapped before.
This was touched on in post #112 and #114 but whatever happened?

I am working my way through the thread again to see if I can find out how to jumper my controller, if need be.
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #566 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 17:05:30 »
You don't have to give up on remapping Pause if you do the remapping in the converter!

The codes prefixed by 'r' are as received from the keyboard, and are mapped once or twice before reaching the computer. First, the set 3 code is mapped to a USB HID code, which is printed with a '+' or '-' prefix. That mapping is fixed and can't be modified. Second, remappings from the config are applied, and the result is printed with a 'd' or 'u' prefix.

When looking for a code to remap, the one to look for is the one beginning with '+'. For the left-hand F1, you'll see +B7 in hid_listen. In the Code list in the docs, you'll see I've called that EXTRA_F1. So a line in a remapblock to remap that to a second 'normal' F1 would be:
    EXTRA_F1  F1

Similarly, remapping Pause to 'NumPad -' would be done by:
    PAUSE  PAD_MINUS

Really, so much changed when the config stuff was introduced with v0.997 that a lot of this thread is outdated (v0.997 was at post 294). TBH I can't remember much about the exact issue with Pause at posts 112/114, except that it got fixed :D

Offline Halvar

  • Posts: 403
  • Location: Germany
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #567 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 17:29:17 »
I don't know if there's a difference between the default mapping of an M-122 and an F-122. Probably not.

On my M-122, there is no "Pause" button any more in the default mapping (with version 1.03).

The upmost row of the numpad on my M-122 had these default mappings from left to right:

ESC
NUM_LOCK
SCROLL_LOCK
EXTRA_SYSRQ






« Last Edit: Fri, 09 November 2012, 17:31:35 by Halvar »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #568 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 17:40:32 »
Finding the picture (not easy) that went along with my own post at #223 allowed me to place a jumper and set my keyboard ID to AFBF, but that does not seem to have helped anything much.

I am an old man with very little programming experience. I have 4 Model F-122s that I hope will satisfy my keyboard needs for life - which for me is a couple of decades, 3 if I am very lucky. I am not saying this to be funny or flip, I am quite serious.

2 of them have internal Teensy's and work great (although they are running something like version 0.996 at the moment, and I want to update them, if I dare), and 2 are "stock" to go with my clean little outboard converter. I want to build another outboard converter to mess around with XTs and the like, but this one is the "real deal" that I am serious about.

My dream would be to upgrade and program them all to behave exactly the same, and to last through my next several OS's. Dream on, Harry!

I would love to do everything "in the converter" but I don't even know how to open it. Unless I have step-by-step instructions I am just not "there" and my "there" is pretty embarrassing. For example, I have downloaded and extracted a bunch of files, but what exactly do I do with a *.sc file? I feel like an infant. But I am intelligent and can learn.

So, can you point me in the direction of where to learn how to set these things "in the converter"? I know where the Registry is and how to diddle with things there, although I do it seldom and with trepidation.

Thank you again.

“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #569 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 18:06:28 »
Halvar, that's true... since v0.997 that Pause mapping moved to legacy.sc. It never was in the first stage mapping though (it was in a kind of built-in config), and I can't remember why now!

101-key 'boards use set 2 by default. But they can be told to use set 3 instead - so that gives a defined mapping between between set 3 and set 2 for all the keys on a 101- or 102- key 'board. But the 122- and the 101- both use 84 for the top-right key on the numpad, so there must've been some other reason why I didn't make set 3 code 84 map to 'NumPad -' directly. There were a number of other constraints I had to consider as well, and for sure, when something had to give it was always going to be in the 122-key mappings rather than the others.

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #570 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 18:27:39 »
fohat, to give a quick idea of the process of getting config 'in the converter', the steps are to:
1. edit a text file,
2. run a command line program (scas) to turn that text file into a binary file, and then
3. run another program (scwr) to transfer the binary file to the converter.
No registry danger involved!

To me, wcass' quick guide seems pretty complete, but I'm aware that I already know (far too much) about what he's describing to judge how useful it is to others!! If you can highlight the parts that fox you, I'll try to unfox :D

Offline Arbiter343GS

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #571 on: Fri, 09 November 2012, 22:33:12 »
I pretty much understand how the entire process works now, but Im stumped on how to get SCAS to assemble the SC file into a SCB file. Because I cant drag and drop items in my command prompt, it just shows a cancel sign as my cursor when i try to do it. Ive also tried opening scas in command prompt but I just dont get how to get scas to see my sc file(I guess is what Im trying to say), because I cant drag the sc file over the exe because the command prompt pops up for a split second and then disappears. Ive had a lot of experience with DOS but for some reason, Im just stumped.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 01:44:45 by Arbiter343GS »

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #572 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 04:51:16 »
On Windows, the simplest way to do it without the drag-drop into the command prompt window is to extract the tools zip to C:\sctools, save your config (e.g. Arbiter343GS.sc) in the same directory as the tools, and then open a command prompt and type the following commands:
Code: [Select]
cd \sctools
scas Arbiter343GS.sc Arbiter343GS.scb
scwr Arbiter343GS.scb
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 05:42:54 by Soarer »

Offline zz

  • Posts: 5
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #573 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 09:04:17 »
hi!

and thank you so much for making this awesome project!
i can confirm that it works right out of the box with my model f.
brilliant documentation too, just wow.

since it worked so well from the start, i got cocky and resoldered the connection cable so that the teensy can be mounted inside.
well, bad idea it seems, because now it doesn't work anymore. even though the soldered contacts look better than what i had on the first try.

here are the symptoms:
- converter is found, scwr and scinfo work
- the orange teensy led flashes on keypress, but no keystrokes are sent
- hid_listen gets just "rFF" signals from every key

whats the problem here, is it just bad contacts or did i switch some pins?

regards,
zz

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #574 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 09:14:31 »
Data line is stuck high - hopefully just a bad connection :)

Offline zz

  • Posts: 5
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #575 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 09:49:46 »
aw man and a support reaction time of ten minutes!
there is no hid manufacturer that can compete with any of this  :D
thank you sir, i'm heating up the soldering iron.

Offline Arbiter343GS

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #576 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 11:18:37 »
That worked, thank you for all the help!
And wow. I am definitely blind, I was scouring over the entire html file and I conveniently just now saw the (filename).scb part. Sorry, for any inconveniences.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 11:27:17 by Arbiter343GS »

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #577 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 12:00:41 »
Yeah, scas takes two arguments, so dropping a file onto it in the GUI doesn't work.

How about - a batch file that runs both scas and scwr, using a default filename for the binary file so it can work by simply dropping a config file onto it...

* scaswr.bat (0.42 kB - downloaded 138 times.)

Put it in the same folder as the tools. If you like, you can make a shortcut to it (on your desktop or wherever) and that can accept dropped config files as well.

Also, it doesn't matter where you save your config then :D

Same thing as text in case attachments get screwed... or you are suspicious of .bat files  :))
Code: [Select]
@echo off
rem scaswr.bat - a drop target for config files

rem Change directory to the location of the batch script file (%0)...
cd /d "%~dp0"

rem Run scas with a default target filename...
echo Assembling %1...
scas %1 %1.scb
if errorlevel 1 goto end

rem Run scwr with that default filename...
echo:
echo Writing %1.scb...
scwr %1.scb

:end
rem Wait for a keypress so the output can be read...
echo:
pause
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 12:13:39 by Soarer »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #578 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 13:10:15 »
Thank you again, you always come through.

I was having a similar problem to Arbiter, not quite the same. And, it all worked, saying that it wrote HCMF-122.scb from HCMF-122.sc but there was no evidence of the second file with the "b" on the end existing in the directory (or anywhere, according to Search!).

Pause, still, stubbornly, will not allow itself to budge. That has always been my one sticking point but I suppose that I have no choice but to live with it.

Last, for some silly reason, F24 does not want to become "Mute" like I like it, but maybe KeyTweak will fix that after all.

Thanks again, I am hoping that this will be a long-term solution to my needs. I plan to use this one, as it is, for at least a week before I update my other boards and Teensy's.
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #579 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 13:38:42 »
We can most definitely get it much better than having to live with any annoyances, but you have managed to pack quite a few baffling points into that post :))

So scas said it wrote HCMF-122.scb... did scwr then say it loaded it ok to the converter?
(BTW, the tools don't delete any files as they do stuff, in case you were wondering).

As Halvar reminded me earlier, Pause isn't there in the default mapping in v1.03. So I'm not quite sure what's happening with that in your case!

I will check later that F24 can be mapped to Mute, but I'm pretty sure it can.

I'm wondering if your previous KeyTweaking is now getting in the way of the converter's mapping - have you tried clearing things in KeyTweak?

Oh, and grab that batch file from my previous post - it's really quite nice being able to just drag-drop a config onto it, I'm liking it more than I thought I would :D
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 13:40:19 by Soarer »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #580 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 14:36:10 »
Sorry to make life difficult.

First, I had already reset everything in KeyTweak back to default, and I almost uninstalled it altogether, but I decided to keep it after all. But currently, nothing is KeyTweaked at all.

Clearly, the .scb file must exist somewhere, since it is working, but it just does not show in any of the directories where I have been working.

F24-to-Mute must have been a problem on the Mute side, so I set F24 back to F24 and it seems happy. I may try KeyTweak for that.
 
When I say "Pause" I am talking about the button at the top right of the NumPad. My F-122s came with a keycap that says "Pause" in that location, so I was going with that concept. Actually the key does not seem to do anything at all, in any case.

With the jumper I added last night, this keyboard is now an AFBF, so is that key really something else? Maybe I am trying to remap a non-existent key!

I use keyboardtest.exe and it has been very good. There are about 3 keys that it chokes on, such as Tab, but it shows pretty much everything on the 122 layout, unlike programs such as aquakey.

However, 2 keys that it does not identify are the center arrow key and the "Pause" or whatever that key really is. Pressing them does not produce any response at all. What else could they be?
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #581 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 14:45:49 »
For the top-right numpad key, you need to remap EXTRA_SYSRQ, and the centre key in the cursors is LANG_4, I think.

IFF you started from legacy.sc, and left most of it there, then the ID might still be having an effect. Otherwise not.

The best way to see what codes you need to remap is to use hid_listen, spot the code starting with '+', and find it in the Codes list in the docs.

I'll check on MUTE in a short while, but first I need to go buy food and booze!!!

If you have known file extensions hidden in explorer, and .scb is something already, then the .scb would look like it's the .sc... could that be it? (Still don't know why it wouldn't find it with a search though).
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 14:51:07 by Soarer »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #582 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 15:54:38 »
My hat is off to you once again.

And please, never let questions about keyboards get in the way of important things like food and drink!

I had been torturing myself over "Pause" when it was not really Pause at all. How foolish of me to think that what was written on a keycap was what was actually underneath ......

Now I am down to a final KeyTweak, re-creating a "Windows" key. It is not 0x76 "Menu" by any chance, is it?

So, is this "permanently" programmed into the Teensy, until I do something to re-set or re-program the unit?

And if I plug in another keyboard (similar but not identical) to this outboard box, should I expect the Teensy to remain happy or will I need to do it again?

Thank you again.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 16:51:08 by fohat.digs »
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #583 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 16:54:26 »
All stocked up now  :cool:

If Pause hadn't been EXTRA_SYSRQ, it would've been PAD_MINUS... which wouldn't have helped much either  :)) Various 122-key 'boards have different legends anyway.

I think I've figured out the MUTE problem without even trying it... thanks to you mentioning MENU. There's a group of codes there, from EXECUTE to MUTE, that are defined in the standard but don't work with Windows (or at least don't do anything useful without extra software). I will clearly mark them somehow in the next docs update.

So, the MUTE you want is MEDIA_MUTE :)

And the three Windows keys are LGUI, RGUI and APP.

All of the names that aren't in italics are pretty much straight from HID documentation, so don't go blaming me for the quirks! (Not that you would :) )

Settings stay in the converter. In fact, that's usually true even if you load an updated hex, unless the settings become incompatible with the update. Obviously, I'll try to keep incompatibilities to a minimum, but it's bound to be necessary sometimes. Anyway, all you would usually need do in that case is recompile and reload your config.

Other keyboards should remain happy... or at least, we can make it so they are happy. This is where some of the 'if' commands could come in handy. Let's say you wanted to use it with the 122-key and also an 83-key PC/XT. Then you'd simply put:
  ifset set3
above the 122-key stuff, and:
  ifset set1
above the 83-key stuff, and:
  ifset any
above stuff you wanted to affect both keyboards.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 17:24:32 by Soarer »

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #584 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 17:35:51 »
Sweet! Even better than I thought.

I guess that in England you don't have "blue laws" ie no alcohol on Sundays except in restaurants that also serve food. So, if you don't make it to the liquor store by closing time Saturday night - horrors - no drinking at home until Monday morning. And who would argue that Monday morning is a good time to drink ...... ?

Having the upper right key in the numpad as PAD_MINUS would be fine with me, that is what I want. I use the numpad and am happy with an ANSI layout, even more so replacing the now-useless NumLock with a very useful "Escape".

Now that I understand how easy and straightforward your technique is (now that it is sufficiently dumbed-down to a recipe) I have no use for KeyTweak anymore anyway. I will ditch it.

I always favor the simplest and most direct route, once I find what that actually is ....
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #585 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 18:05:58 »
No, nothing like 'blue laws', but big shops are limited to I think 6 hours opening on Sundays. So I'll have to get there before 4PM tomorrow instead of the rush round before 10PM I did tonight!

It can be a hurdle to get started with the config stuff, but now you know a little you can learn the rest as and when  you need it, one thing at a time. I get disappointingly few questions about macros - I guess either because people who get that far are simply fine with it, or because nobody gets that far :))

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1778
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #586 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 19:26:10 »
A big shout out to Soarer...I just want to say thank you again for this awesome converter code.  I just successfully converted my F-122. This makes two successful conversions now (an XT and this  F-122).
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)
| KBD75 (box reds)

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #587 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 19:42:38 »
Good Luck! What was that one dated, April 1984?

The oldest one I have is a 6110344 dated August 1984.

Was the foam mat in decent condition?
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1778
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #588 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 19:47:30 »
Good Luck! What was that one dated, April 1984?

The oldest one I have is a 6110344 dated August 1984.

Was the foam mat in decent condition?


April 1984....Part # 6110344.  Foam mat appeared to be in decent condition and the metal barrel plate seems to be in good condition too (no visible rusting).  With that being said, I didn't really tear it down yet...I only cut, stripped, & soldered the cable onto the Teensy and programmed the Teensy.  Plugged it in and typed on it just fine.  I'm waiting for an extended time off work/school before I really get into the tear down and modification. 
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)
| KBD75 (box reds)

Offline zz

  • Posts: 5
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #589 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 20:50:48 »
damn. why did i touch it. it was running perfectly  :'(
after very carefully resoldering the wires both my keyboards seem to be dead!
hid_info only registers keyboard id 0000 and no keystrokes at all..
cable contacts are ok, and programming/restarting the teensy as well as executing the sc tools works fine.
hmmm.. any ideas?

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 5797
  • Location: 35°57'20"N, 83°52'50"W
  • weird funny old guy
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #590 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 21:05:17 »
What wires?

As much as I have tinkered with other stuff, I have not touched any "internal" wires in my Model Fs.

The 2 internal Teensy's I installed were attached to the controller board with original connections by cutting the cable and soldering directly to the legs of the Teensy. That is nice, because it appears to be a sturdy, permanently attached USB cable.

Even that makes me a bit nervous, so my current project was to build an outboard box to keep the entire keyboard intact, including DIN plug.

PS - AKIMbO, you should consider yourself fortunate to get a super-early F-122 with decent foam mat and non-rusted plate. I have gotten a couple of "OK" mats but never a plate that wasn't at least a little rusted.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 November 2012, 21:07:12 by fohat.digs »
“The oddity in all of this is that the people Trump despises most, love him the most. The people who are voting for Trump for the most part - he wouldn’t even let them in his ****ing hotel. He’d be disgusted by them.
Go to Mar-a-Lago, see if there’s any people who look like you. I’m talking to you in the audience.” If it sounded like Stern was manifesting contempt for people who voted for Trump, he was. “I don’t hate Donald. I hate you for voting for him, for not having intelligence.”
- Howard Stern - 2020-05-12

Offline zz

  • Posts: 5
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #591 on: Sat, 10 November 2012, 22:10:18 »
i meant the cable.. i just wanted to make it shorter to fit inside.

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #592 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 06:36:48 »
So it's worse than before? Not even the rFF codes now? :(

Most of the ways to damage things have been talked about recently, so you should be able to find those fairly quickly if you scan backwards through this thread.

At a guess though, it's possible that the Teensy PCB has been damaged as you removed wires - if the solder isn't totally melted, it can pull the pad on the top clean off, which breaks the connection to the trace. The pad on the bottom would likely still be fine, so resoldering would look fine too, but the traces for both PD0 and PD1 are on the top side :(

Offline zz

  • Posts: 5
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #593 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 11:03:56 »
phew!
got it back to work on pd3 and pd4 with the alternate firmware a few pages back.
seems like i really damaged some teensy connectors..
i'm just glad i got my "BsDef"-button back  :D
thanks again.

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #594 on: Sun, 11 November 2012, 15:19:46 »
Shame about the damage, but at least it's working now :)

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1778
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #595 on: Sat, 24 November 2012, 13:45:41 »
Mmmmm.....success.  ANSI layout.  Thanks again Soarer!




Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)
| KBD75 (box reds)

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #596 on: Sat, 24 November 2012, 13:53:18 »
Nicely done... and very clean!

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1778
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #597 on: Sat, 24 November 2012, 15:34:39 »
I'm having a bit of an issue with the converter.  When I run the command (scwr akimbo.scb) the command prompt spits out:

scwr: looking for Soarer's Converter: found
scwr: reading file failed
too short

I'm kind of stumped here. 

Forgot to mention, my notepad file with the config is akimbo.cfg.
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)
| KBD75 (box reds)

Offline Soarer

  • * Moderator
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1918
  • Location: UK
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #598 on: Sat, 24 November 2012, 15:50:12 »
That's odd. No errors from 'scas akimbo.cfg akimbo.scb', presumably?

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1778
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO
« Reply #599 on: Sat, 24 November 2012, 15:56:26 »
^You know what I did wrong.  I didn't use type .cfg when i ran 'scas akimbo.cfg akimbo.scb'
 It worked perfect just now when I added. .cfg.   Man I'm embarassed. :-(

Yup, everything is working now.  Tenkey is reprogrammed perfectly along with F22-F24.
« Last Edit: Sat, 24 November 2012, 16:00:20 by AKIMbO »
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)
| KBD75 (box reds)