Dox KB, Build your own!

[bloodygood]

So after staring at the keyboard matrix in relation to the Teensy pins this is what I came up with. Does it make sense to anyone? I don't understand quite what each pin on the Teensy does I guess. Why does Esc have its own pin? And in what order do the columns make sense to what pin they are wired to.

Show Image

Row 0 - B0
Row 1 - B1
Row 2 - B2
Row 3 - B3
Row 4 - B4
Esc - B5
Col 0 - D0
Col 1 - D1
Col 2 - D2
Col 3 - D3
Col 4 - C5
Col 5 - C7
Col 6 - D6
Col 7 - D7
Col 8 - F6
Col 9 - F7
Col 10 - F5
Col 11 - F4
Col 12 - F1
Col 13 - F0

I was really hoping for confirmation on this assessment so I could know that I am doing it right when re-tracing the lines to the opposite side.

[Dox]

If you are using my original design, the F series is backward but I think that the rest is correct. I'm not sure on how ishtob wired it when he put the controller on the PCB but that can be fixed in the firmware if there is a problem.

[TheProfosist]

What advantages does the teeny++ have over teensy?

[bloodygood]

Ah I see now, this was the section in the coding dictates which pin corresponds to column
// pin: PD0, PD1, PD2, PD3, PC6, PC7, PD6, PD7, PF7, PF4, PF6, PF5, PF1, PF0
So theoretically the pins could be changed around if necessary.
Is it possible to use any pin as long as you declare it and it is not GND or VCC, or does it have to be one of certain pins because there are 31 pins total.
I/O   25
Analog In   12
PWM   7
Currently reading through as much of the documentation on their website as I can.

[alaricljs]

What advantages does the teeny++ have over teensy?

More IO pins and more memory (flash, RAM and EEPROM), otherwise mostly the same.  This page has a comparison table just under the 2 images.

Is it possible to use any pin as long as you declare it and it is not GND or VCC, or does it have to be one of certain pins because there are 31 pins total.

Can't be AREF, RST, GND, Vcc.

[bloodygood]

Can't be AREF, RST, GND, Vcc.

I know which ones AREF, GND and VCC are. But which one is the RST?

Top left = VNC
Bottom right = GND
Blue Arrow = AREF
Are those the 3 holes right next to the button? i.e pin 3, 4, and 5 down from the top right below D4
I suppose those are used for being able to trigger the reset without using the on-board one?

[alaricljs]

On both models, the middle 3 holes on the end next to the button are Vcc Gnd and RST.  Yes, that's so you can wire an off-board reset button.

[bloodygood]

On both models, the middle 3 holes on the end next to the button are Vcc Gnd and RST.  Yes, that's so you can wire an off-board reset button.

Thank you very much that helps quite a lot, I will begin working on a new layout then for the PCB traces.

[bpiphany]

Here are the complete pinout of the different Teensys, with all peripherals listed. There are also datasheets for the different chips, they are long and highly impenetrable for a non-EE =P

[braaaiiins]

Have any of you thought about building a bluetooth keyboard? I'm really interested in making a bluetooth/usb hybrid.

[bloodygood]

Have any of you thought about building a bluetooth keyboard? I'm really interested in making a bluetooth/usb hybrid.

While I do think a bluetooth keyboard is useful to some people. I personally do not like to deal with batteries (even rechargeable ones) and so I personally would most likely not be able to help in that regard. If you read through other modification threads about bluetooth you will notice that there is a pretty common five meter rule as far as how far from their bluetooth receiver they can be. I personally in this scenario would rather just hook up a 10 foot extension cable since it really wouldn't be too bad having just 1 extra wire between me and the computer. I would recommend reading up on those other modifications as I believe those would help here if you want to pursue that.

[TheProfosist]

Could I get the links again to where to buy the toggle switch? I seem to have lost them. Also if you want to throw in blue and clear that would be great. Im trying to get everything together should be able to start ordering parts soon.

[bloodygood]

Could I get the links again to where to buy the toggle switch? I seem to have lost them. Also if you want to throw in blue and clear that would be great. Im trying to get everything together should be able to start ordering parts soon.

Well this is a link to their full stock of Cherry MX keyswitches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ac1nn.html?p=11075427 - Clear plate switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ae1nn.html?p=11075429 - Blue plate switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1a11nn.html?p=40653293 - Black plate switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1a31nn.html?p=11075424 - Toggle plate switch
Grabbing the PCB mounted links, will post below
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ac1nw.html?p=11075428 - Clear PCB switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ae1nw.html?p=11075430 - Blue PCB switches
No reasonable amount of Black PCB switches and there is no Toggle PCB switch. (also you cannot swap the toggle switch into a PCB switch, it will not work) Not saying it is 100% impossible, just that if you do it, you have to dremel out the wall between where the diode/led goes and where the spring is.

[TheProfosist]

Well this is a link to their full stock of Cherry MX keyswitches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ac1nn.html?p=11075427 - Clear plate switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ae1nn.html?p=11075429 - Blue plate switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1a11nn.html?p=40653293 - Black plate switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1a31nn.html?p=11075424 - Toggle plate switch
Grabbing the PCB mounted links, will post below
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ac1nw.html?p=11075428 - Clear PCB switches
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical_mx1ae1nw.html?p=11075430 - Blue PCB switches
No reasonable amount of Black PCB switches and there is no Toggle PCB switch. (also you cannot swap the toggle switch into a PCB switch, it will not work) Not saying it is 100% impossible, just that if you do it, you have to dremel out the wall between where the diode/led goes and where the spring is.

ouch just figured out itll be about $130 for full all new keyboard of ergo clears. know of any suppliers of browns?

[bloodygood]

This is the only one that I know of that might have it.

My problem is that I like brown switches the most and I have absolutely no idea where to source those. I saw one Chinese website offering them for about 2$ per switch which adds up way too quickly.

http://www.jw-shop.com/product20/page45/detail.htm I just noticed this website but I can't understand if they are using Yen or Cny (huge difference)
700 yen for 10 switches would be absolutely awesome, the only problem is that I am not sure what shipping would be, and I could be translating the "10" wrong. Also for browns only they have both With and without mounting pins for PCB

If we were to go a group buy to reduce shipping cost that would be awesome, but I do not know how many they have in stock, and I still don't know if it is sets of 10 or something different.

[TheProfosist]

This is the only one that I know of that might have it.

If we were to go a group buy to reduce shipping cost that would be awesome, but I do not know how many they have in stock, and I still don't know if it is sets of 10 or something different.

Hmm i know that Mouser carries Cherry MX but I have never been able to decipher their model numbers.

[bloodygood]

Hmm i know that Mouser carries Cherry MX but I have never been able to decipher their model numbers.

Let me help you with that.
All switches start with
MX1A-
next is the color of the switch
next 2 are unimportant also unless you want to have it by default have a diode or LEDs (1N is default)
last is whether it is plate or pcb mounted (Plate = N, PCB = W)
Link to all mouser mx switches http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=cherry+mx+keylock
MX1A-1 - Black switch
MX1A-2 - Dark Grey switch
MX1A-3 - Black switch with Grey upper housing and toggles on/off
MX1A-A - White switch
MX1A-B - Grey switch
MX1A-C - Clear switch
MX1A-D - Light Grey switch
MX1A-E - Blue switch
MX1A-F - Green switch
MX1A-G - Brown switch
MX1A-L - Red switch

example: Plate mounted brown - MX1A-G1NN

[TheProfosist]

Let me help you with that.
All switches start with
MX1A-
next is the color of the switch
next 2 are unimportant also unless you want to have it by default have a diode or LEDs (1N is default)
last is whether it is plate or pcb mounted (Plate = N, PCB = W)
Link to all mouser mx switches http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=cherry+mx+keylock
MX1A-1 - Black switch
MX1A-2 - Dark Grey switch
MX1A-3 - Black switch with Grey upper housing and toggles on/off
MX1A-A - White switch
MX1A-B - Grey switch
MX1A-C - Clear switch
MX1A-D - Light Grey switch
MX1A-E - Blue switch
MX1A-F - Green switch
MX1A-G - Brown switch
MX1A-L - Red switch

Looks like they have less than I remember and no browns http://tinyurl.com/7c74o37

[bloodygood]

Does anyone have any experience with different color LEDs because I was reading earlier that purple LEDs can be harmful if left on for long periods of times around you (usually called UV LEDs) But the color looks so nice I really wanted to use them for a Dox. Should I be concerned about ordering those instead of full blue (my second choice)

[TheProfosist]

Does anyone have any experience with different color LEDs because I was reading earlier that purple LEDs can be harmful if left on for long periods of times around you (usually called UV LEDs) But the color looks so nice I really wanted to use them for a Dox. Should I be concerned about ordering those instead of full blue (my second choice)

Umm yea you can get purple but dont get UV they have their purposes but prolonged exposure is bad

o i forgot about this thread http://tinyurl.com/83nuvcl

[bloodygood]

Umm yea you can get purple but dont get UV they have their purposes but prolonged exposure is bad

o i forgot about this thread http://tinyurl.com/83nuvcl

If you are looking to pay 70$ instead of a possibly lower price then sure that is a good idea. Perhaps you could talk to them about a group buy (meaning the group of us) so we can get closer to 500 for a price drop perhaps.

For bigger quantity please inquire or PM me.

MX1A-G1JW the J means it has a jumper wire, I am not sure if that will be a problem or not. Also that means they are /not/ plate mounted. But since we have the holes in the board it shouldn't be a problem, we should still be able to use them with a plate AND pcb mount. Talk about impossible to damage haha.

Also how can you tell which are purple and which are UV they seem to all be marketed as UV from what I could find.

[TheProfosist]

If you are looking to pay 70$ instead of a possibly lower price then sure that is a good idea. Perhaps you could talk to them about a group buy (meaning the group of us) so we can get closer to 500 for a price drop perhaps.
MX1A-G1JW the J means it has a jumper wire, I am not sure if that will be a problem or not. Also that means they are /not/ plate mounted. But since we have the holes in the board it shouldn't be a problem, we should still be able to use them with a plate AND pcb mount. Talk about impossible to damage haha.

Also how can you tell which are purple and which are UV they seem to all be marketed as UV from what I could find.

I just remember the thread they might not be the right switches. I still want to go with new Ergo Clears but the price is a bit muct with all the other DOX parts so I think that Im going to use some old Dark Blues that to start out with.

[bloodygood]

I just remember the thread they might not be the right switches. I still want to go with new Ergo Clears but the price is a bit muct with all the other DOX parts so I think that Im going to use some old Dark Blues that to start out with.

Perhaps try ordering clears and then getting just the springs from the Classifieds? First make a post in classifieds seeing if you can get just the springs for around 10~15 (brown/blue/red springs) If you can get that deal then just buying the clear switches to go with them will be a cakewalk.

[bloodygood]

Are we infact limited to only Red, Yellow, and Orange? I mean surely there must be a way to use more LEDs since Deck makes Blue and Green full LED under all 104 keys keyboards.

[TheProfosist]

Perhaps try ordering clears and then getting just the springs from the Classifieds? First make a post in classifieds seeing if you can get just the springs for around 10~15 (brown/blue/red springs) If you can get that deal then just buying the clear switches to go with them will be a cakewalk.

posted!

[TheProfosist]

Are we infact limited to only Red, Yellow, and Orange? I mean surely there must be a way to use more LEDs since Deck makes Blue and Green full LED under all 104 keys keyboards.

Show Image

yea we can only use those colors i believe otherwise the led is too dim or they were drawing too much power from the usb port. someone mentioned that manufacturer might use PWM or something to that end.

[bloodygood]

yea we can only use those colors i believe otherwise the led is too dim or they were drawing too much power from the usb port. someone mentioned that manufacturer might use PWM or something to that end.

I wonder if we can send them an email and ask.. I can't see them having any reason not to give us a very simple advice like that since we are not making this for mass production only for those who are interested in buying the parts themselves.. They might just be willing to give advice on LEDs if we ask nicely.

[TheProfosist]

I wonder if we can send them an email and ask.. I can't see them having any reason not to give us a very simple advice like that since we are not making this for mass production only for those who are interested in buying the parts themselves.. They might just be willing to give advice on LEDs if we ask nicely.

Give it a try you could try asking someone whos worked with leds in that way before also EE maybe?

[bloodygood]

Well it looks like they answer posts on their forum actually.
-quote 1. person asking question
I read on another Forum that the Power required for the LED Lighting overloads the ability of the USB to provide the required Power. Is that True? There really are a lot of LEDs on the Keyboard.

-quote 2. their answer
Since we do not drive the LEDs at full power the current level stays below the USB limit, therefore this shouldn't be a problem for full power ports (note that there are certain cases where some laptops have USB ports that only put out 100mA - it will not work on these type of ports; this is a rare issue).

Oh this was on the side bar on their website
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/light.php

[TheProfosist]

Well it looks like they answer posts on their forum actually.
-quote 1. person asking question
I read on another Forum that the Power required for the LED Lighting overloads the ability of the USB to provide the required Power. Is that True? There really are a lot of LEDs on the Keyboard.

-quote 2. their answer
Since we do not drive the LEDs at full power the current level stays below the USB limit, therefore this shouldn't be a problem for full power ports (note that there are certain cases where some laptops have USB ports that only put out 100mA - it will not work on these type of ports; this is a rare issue).

Oh this was on the side bar on their website
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/light.php

were already doing that... at least i believe so... ishtob mentioned lowering the power given to them.

[bloodygood]

were already doing that... at least i believe so... ishtob mentioned lowering the power given to them.

I believe it was mentioned but perhaps from there we can figure out exactly what change would be necessary to run all including blue/green/white/purple with no problem

[TheProfosist]

I believe it was mentioned but perhaps from there we can figure out exactly what change would be necessary to run all including blue/green/white/purple with no problem

I think it was originally wired that way but then rewire to cut power consumption even more it was my ideal to wire 2 leds together if possible because less resistors better power consumption and what not/ I dont know if it was mentioned about the limit on colors at the time.... I dont mind I want red. By the way know where to get red leds that meet the current specs?

[bpiphany]

I still think you should consider cycling through the rows of LEDs, having one lite at a time is maximum 15cols x 25mA = 375mA. All power routing to the LEDs has to be done externally from the Teensy, it has to be anyhow. It should be really simple to rotate the rows with only a few extra components. I more or less drew a schematic of how to do this, I think...

I'm no EE, but I would be a bit cautious of wiring only two LEDs in series without any resistor even if the combined voltage drop across them should be within safe limits. This might be completely ok but ask someone who knows for sure first.

[bloodygood]

I still think you should consider cycling through the rows of LEDs, having one lite at a time is maximum 15cols x 25mA = 375mA. All power routing to the LEDs has to be done externally from the Teensy, it has to be anyhow. It should be really simple to rotate the rows with only a few extra components. I more or less drew a schematic of how to do this, I think...

I'm no EE, but I would be a bit cautious of wiring only two LEDs in series without any resistor even if the combined voltage drop across them should be within safe limits. This might be completely ok but ask someone who knows for sure first.

This is a picture of only one side of the PCB and shows a good portion of the traces to show that it is being powered off of the USB power and not the Teensy.

Click the image to open full size.

[Dox]

I still think you should consider cycling through the rows of LEDs, having one lite at a time is maximum 15cols x 25mA = 375mA. All power routing to the LEDs has to be done externally from the Teensy, it has to be anyhow. It should be really simple to rotate the rows with only a few extra components. I more or less drew a schematic of how to do this, I think...

I'm no EE, but I would be a bit cautious of wiring only two LEDs in series without any resistor even if the combined voltage drop across them should be within safe limits. This might be completely ok but ask someone who knows for sure first.

Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you would use the power that you use to scan the matrix to lit the leds? I think that could work too.
With 5V source voltage, 2V diode forward voltage and 20mA diode forward current and 15 leds, this is the result from this led calculator:

Solution 0: 2 x 7 array, 1 extra LED
    +----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 56 ohms
    +----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 56 ohms
    +----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 56 ohms
    +----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 56 ohms
    +----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 56 ohms
    +----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 56 ohms
    +----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 56 ohms
    +----|>|----------/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms

The wizard says: In solution 0:
  each 56 ohm resistor dissipates 22.4 mW
  the wizard thinks ¼W resistors are fine for your application
  the 150 ohm resistor dissipates 60 mW
  the wizard thinks ¼W resistors are fine for your application
  together, all resistors dissipate 216.8 mW
  together, the diodes dissipate 600 mW              
  total power dissipated by the array is 816.8 mW      
  the array draws current of 160 mA from the source.
 

Solution 1: 1 x 15 array uses 15 LEDs exactly
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms
    +----|>|---/\/\/----+  R = 150 ohms

The wizard says: In solution 1:
  each 150 ohm resistor dissipates 60 mW
  the wizard thinks ¼W resistors are fine for your application
  together, all resistors dissipate 900 mW
  together, the diodes dissipate 600 mW              
  total power dissipated by the array is 1500 mW      
  the array draws current of 300 mA from the source.

[bpiphany]

I didn't look to much at the picture, but you have ~60 keys, with all LEDs connected in series pairs, that is 30x20mA=600mA for common LEDs. Then you would have to restrict your LEDs to 15mA ones to meet the 500mA limit. Also if there is no control whatsoever through the Teensy, you will not be able to adjust the brightness of the back lighting. I imagine 60 LEDs could light up your complete house choosing the "right" ones =)

Add some way to cycle the rows, some sort of decade counter perhaps, if that one has a inhibit pin you can PWM that with the controller to set the intensity. There will be 5 transistors needed also to control the currents.

Having LED series pairs lowers the total power consumption, but again restricts the usable set of LEDs. I however imagine that you wouldn't want to drive them at full throttle anyhow, so 1500mW is probably not going to happen.

[bloodygood]

I didn't look to much at the picture, but you have ~60 keys, with all LEDs connected in series pairs, that is 30x20mA=600mA for common LEDs. Then you would have to restrict your LEDs to 15mA ones to meet the 500mA limit. Also if there is no control whatsoever through the Teensy, you will not be able to adjust the brightness of the back lighting. I imagine 60 LEDs could light up your complete house choosing the "right" ones =)

Add some way to cycle the rows, some sort of decade counter perhaps, if that one has a inhibit pin you can PWM that with the controller to set the intensity. There will be 5 transistors needed also to control the currents.

Having LED series pairs lowers the total power consumption, but again restricts the usable set of LEDs. I however imagine that you wouldn't want to drive them at full throttle anyhow, so 1500mW is probably not going to happen.

This is infact true that we cannot change the level of the light but we can turn them off. the 4 switch on the left side next to capslock (on the underside of the keyboard, fits just like a Poker keyboard) can turn on/off LEDs

I wonder how KBC managed to make the Poker PCB so clean looking, very simple and precise.

[ishtob]

im running the LED's at 6mA, not 25mA

[ishtob]

i might be able to add a pot before the DIP switch to adjust the light level, but its going to be tough fitting that in the poker case... unless you guys dont mind it topside of the poker, under the caps lock

[bloodygood]

Was the Poker made to be able to add more LEDs?




I really wish we could see a poker with the key switches removed.. both sides of the PCB up close. If I had extra money I would buy one and de-solder it all to take high res pictures like that. Then we would know what we were up against and possible be able to wire ours in such a small space based on past working experience.

[ishtob]

This is infact true that we cannot change the level of the light but we can turn them off. the 4 switch on the left side next to capslock (on the underside of the keyboard, fits just like a Poker keyboard) can turn on/off LEDs

I wonder how KBC managed to make the Poker PCB so clean looking, very simple and precise.

Show Image

that's exactly what I'm using the DIP switch for, one for on and off the all LED, 1 for wasd, and 1 for esc

[bloodygood]

that's exactly what I'm using the DIP switch for, one for on and off the all LED, 1 for wasd, and 1 for esc

I know that, I was agreeing that is what was being done, not saying you did something different. My point was it seems like they used very minimal and almost always very thin traces and managed to make the whole layout very clean. I wonder if that is possible to replicate and give more space to get all of the wiring more efficiently.
I made a small change to the traces in order to add a second key instead of 1 backspace key. I will upload that in a sec

[TheProfosist]

Before I forget Dox said he would help with the plate http://tinyurl.com/8235uvh

[bloodygood]

I did manage to find one larger picture of the Revision 1 Poker but only of the underside.

click for full size.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24151-Would-It-Be-Possible-To...
This sounds possible. What would happen if you wired each column to go from the switch lead, to the resistor, to the led, and then to the next in the column?

[TheProfosist]

Anyone have some good shots of the inside of a poker case I plan to add lead weight like I did to my Rosewill I wonder how much room is in there.

[bloodygood]

taken from this review
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:19607

[TheProfosist]

Show Image

Show Image

taken from this review
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:19607

Thanks looks like ill be able to put a fair bit of lead in there depending on clearance just like they did the foam.

[bloodygood]

Thanks looks like ill be able to put a fair bit of lead in there depending on clearance just like they did the foam.

If you read their review they said they put the foam in to reduce PBC flexing. so perhaps it would be a good idea to cover your lead with a tad bit of foam too.

[ishtob]

i use sponge, but it works the same

[TheProfosist]

If you read their review they said they put the foam in to reduce PBC flexing. so perhaps it would be a good idea to cover your lead with a tad bit of foam too.

Well have a plate though.