Author Topic: Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard  (Read 25959 times)

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Offline REVENGE

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 21:17:52 »
http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-Amiga-2000-Cherry-keyboard-RED-Amiga-keys-/280706955427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415b7038a3

Nice keys, retarded layout. This one is supposed to be rare, and cost mucho dinero among collectors, or maybe people are confused in the head...
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 July 2011, 21:29:04 by REVENGE »
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Offline mmmty

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 23:03:02 »
Hey! I got one of those in my closet for years. But mine has black Amiga key. I didn't even know it was mechanical. It feels like rubber dome but still nice to type on. What kind of Cherry is this?



« Last Edit: Sun, 10 July 2011, 23:31:34 by mmmty »
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Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 23:21:04 »
Quote from: REVENGE;377812
Nice keys, retarded layout. This one is supposed to be rare, and cost mucho dinero among collectors, or maybe people are confused in the head...

What's so retarded about the layout? That's the standard Amiga layout. I can't see anything wrong with it.

Apparently, it is a rare keyboard (I've never seen one), but probably nothing that special to type on. I'm sure it's better than the Mitsumi Amiga keyboards (also mechanical), but probably no better than the standard Cherry Amiga 1000 keyboard.

Quote from: mmmty;377881
Hey! I got one of those my closet for years. But mine has black Amiga key. I didn't even know it was mechanical. It feels like rubber dome but still nice to type on. What kind of Cherry is this?

No, that's made by Mitsumi. [strike]It is mechanical[/strike]. Those rubber bits act as springs, but it's not rubber dome.


Edit: Not mechanical. See ripster's picture below.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 July 2011, 05:09:07 by mr_a500 »

Offline mmmty

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« Reply #3 on: Mon, 11 July 2011, 00:06:36 »
Cool, I can add Mitsumi to my list of switches. I don't even remember where I got it from.
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Offline REVENGE

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« Reply #4 on: Mon, 11 July 2011, 00:12:31 »
Quote from: mr_a500;377901
What's so retarded about the layout? That's the standard Amiga layout. I can't see anything wrong with it.
Nothing "wrong" with it, I just don't small backspace + giant L enter.
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Offline Half-Saint

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 13 July 2011, 02:14:25 »
The only Amiga 2000 keyboard that has actual cherry switches is the one with red A keys. Also, this one is badly yellowed.

I recently bought this one (notice the different Return key): http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390307084168
« Last Edit: Wed, 13 July 2011, 02:19:43 by Half-Saint »
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Offline zmurf

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« Reply #6 on: Thu, 14 July 2011, 02:00:48 »
Quote from: Half-Saint;379368
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390307084168
Arrgh!
That one is ISO layout. I would so love to replace my awful A4k keyboard against that one... The other one with a stupid L shaped enter key isn't the same since it's hard for me to use it with a Swedish layout. :P
At last! A mechanical keyboard with Trackpoint of my own! Now with Hyper-Scroll! And also Ergo-Clear switches. Ohh... look... custom keys! :D

Offline domin8r

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 14 July 2011, 02:47:28 »
Quote from: mr_a500;377901
What's so retarded about the layout? That's the standard Amiga layout. I can't see anything wrong with it.

Apparently, it is a rare keyboard (I've never seen one), but probably nothing that special to type on. I'm sure it's better than the Mitsumi Amiga keyboards (also mechanical), but probably no better than the standard Cherry Amiga 1000 keyboard.



No, that's made by Mitsumi. It is mechanical. Those rubber bits act as springs, but it's not rubber dome.

Just threw away a Mitsumi with those switches.. really felt like the worst switches I've ever felt. Rather type on a rubberdome than on those! :s
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Offline REVENGE

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 14 July 2011, 04:58:44 »
Quote from: domin8r;380150
Just threw away a Mitsumi with those switches.. really felt like the worst switches I've ever felt. Rather type on a rubberdome than on those! :s
For the Amigas, I've read that there were two variants with Mitsumis, one that felt like crap and another that felt mechanical + clicky.
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Offline domin8r

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 14 July 2011, 06:50:14 »
Quote from: REVENGE;380177
For the Amigas, I've read that there were two variants with Mitsumis, one that felt like crap and another that felt mechanical + clicky.

Hehe then I definitely know which one I had :)
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Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 14 July 2011, 11:03:50 »
Quote from: REVENGE;380177
For the Amigas, I've read that there were two variants with Mitsumis, one that felt like crap and another that felt mechanical + clicky.

No Amiga keyboard is "clicky", [strike]but all were mechanical[/strike]. Like everything else, keyboard quality went down over time. Cherry switches were used first (best), then NMB (good) before they switched to Mitsumi. Earlier Mitsumi keyboards used rubber cups as springs. Those keyboards feel OK, but not nearly as good as the earlier Cherry keyboards. Later Mitsumi keyboards (Amiga 4000) replaced the rubber cups with springs - and feel is worse because the springs don't "buckle" like the rubber cups did. The plastics are also cheaper and yellow much more easily. They're still better than rubber domes though.

The ultra crap keyboard domin8r is talking about was probably the Commodore PC keyboard. I've got one. It's a real piece of crap.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 July 2011, 05:10:03 by mr_a500 »

Offline maladroid

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 19 July 2011, 21:56:27 »
Quote from: mr_a500;380283
No Amiga keyboard is "clicky", but all were mechanical. Like everything else, keyboard quality went down over time. Cherry switches were used first....


Which current variety of Cherry switch would you say comes closest to the ones used in the Amiga 1000 keyboard?

Offline REVENGE

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 19 July 2011, 22:34:52 »
Quote from: maladroid;383751
Which current variety of Cherry switch would you say comes closest to the ones used in the Amiga 1000 keyboard?
They used vintage Cherry Blacks, force diagram is slightly different compared to modern Blacks (IIRC, don't quote me on it).
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Offline Clickey

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 19 July 2011, 23:06:15 »
Does that keyboard work on a PC?
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Offline maladroid

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 20 July 2011, 00:56:33 »
Quote from: Clickey;383798
Does that keyboard work on a PC?

No.  Pinouts are the same, but signalling is different.

Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 20 July 2011, 05:03:19 »
Quote from: ripster;383845
Buckling rubber sleeve with slider and membrane.  Not really mechanical.
Show Image

Holy crap... you're right! That's the Mitsumi switch. It's really like a rubber dome on a stick.

I must have been psychologically damaged by the sight of it, then blocked it out - and in my mind kept repeating "it's mechanical...it's mechanical..." just to keep from going insane.

Oh well, if it's not mechanical then it's one of the best non-mechanical keyboards I've used. It's only a bit worse than the (truly mechanical) NMB A2000 keyboard and A1000 Cherry.

Offline The Solutor

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 20 July 2011, 05:37:16 »
As I said in the ti99 thread looks like an evolution of my ti99 keyboard
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Online Findecanor

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 20 July 2011, 06:06:56 »
Quote from: mr_a500;380283
The ultra crap keyboard domin8r is talking about was probably the Commodore PC keyboard. I've got one. It's a real piece of crap.

There are several types of Commodore PC keyboards. I thought one or two types of them had Cherry switches in them.. am I wrong?
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Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 20 July 2011, 08:32:11 »
Quote from: The Solutor;383917
As I said in the ti99 thread looks like an evolution of my ti99 keyboard

Maybe that one TI-99 keyboard version was made by Mitsumi. (...as you mentioned you read somewhere)
 
Quote from: Findecanor;383921
There are several types of Commodore PC keyboards. I thought one or two types of them had Cherry switches in them.. am I wrong?

If so, they were probably on the earliest Commodore PCs. I just know the one I have is utter crap - worse than any Amiga keyboard.

Offline The Solutor

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 20 July 2011, 08:53:17 »
Quote from: mr_a500;383960
Maybe that one TI-99 keyboard version was made by Mitsumi. (...as you mentioned you read somewhere)


Already guessed that, cherry must be excluded, your two are likely apls and hi-tec, excluding that three only mitsumi is left.
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Offline czarek

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 09:44:06 »
Hey early A2000 made in Germany use cherry keyboards with MX Blacks but I don't like it - too stiff and keys get yellow. I currently use this board with my A500T - it's not Cherry, just some mystery, nice switch:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22588[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22589[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22590[/ATTACH]
That's also from early production of A2000 and A500 (1986-1987). Linear, around 55g force. Quite short key travel, around that one of Alps Black. Keycaps are PBT, have a nice rough texture and it's absolute pleasure to use this keyboard, especially for games like pinball :)
It's rehoused to CDTV keyboard case because original case was badly yellowed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 July 2011, 10:10:16 by czarek »
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Offline mmmty

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 10:09:16 »
Quote from: Clickey;383798
Does that keyboard work on a PC?


I tried hooking it up to a PC last weekend and it didn't work.

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Offline czarek

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« Reply #22 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 10:22:05 »
Quote from: ripster;388732
How did you come by that 55g number?

It's stiffer than MX Blue but lighter than Buckling Spring - there are no quarter dollars in Poland to do actual measurements.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 13:15:19 »
Use 5g 2 zlote coin?

Offline czarek

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« Reply #24 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 13:50:35 »
Unfortunately I couldn't find any 2 PLN coins so I used british pounds (http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/facts/coins/onepoundcoin.aspx) each weights 9.5 g and it takes 9 of those to fully bottom out the key:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22613[/ATTACH]
85 g is quite a lot of pressure but the keys actuate after about 1 mm travel which is good as you can type without bottoming out.
Note the caps lock key uses purple version of that switch - this one is actually lighter - 7 pounds (65 g) are enough to press it.
Also remember it's not the keyboard OP linked. His one uses regular Cherry MX Blacks, this one uses some weird switches which I really like and if this keyboard didn't have shadow issues I'd probably use it for my workstation for gaming and system (not programming of course - for that purpose IMHO nothing beats Buckling Spring).
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Offline czarek

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« Reply #25 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 14:09:12 »
Both don't click and are linear - purple is basically the same thing just a tad lighter and it has a place for a LED. To register white one (travel that 1-2 mm) it needs only 3 coins (27 g). It is also quite easy to adjust the actuation point by bending the beams inside or outside using flat screw driver - you can even make them to actuate at very slight touch, or if you prefer almost at the end of travel.
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Offline czarek

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« Reply #26 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 14:18:18 »
That's on the keys i've never adjusted. On those I changed I more or less tried to match force of Filco with MX Brown I was using before Endurapro, It looks ilke I made it a bit lighter but due to stiffness of the switch it really felt a bit harder to activate...
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Offline EverythingIBM

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 28 July 2011, 19:31:03 »
Quote from: mr_a500;380283
No Amiga keyboard is "clicky", [strike]but all were mechanical[/strike]. Like everything else, keyboard quality went down over time. Cherry switches were used first (best), then NMB (good) before they switched to Mitsumi. Earlier Mitsumi keyboards used rubber cups as springs. Those keyboards feel OK, but not nearly as good as the earlier Cherry keyboards. Later Mitsumi keyboards (Amiga 4000) replaced the rubber cups with springs - and feel is worse because the springs don't "buckle" like the rubber cups did. The plastics are also cheaper and yellow much more easily. They're still better than rubber domes though.

The ultra crap keyboard domin8r is talking about was probably the Commodore PC keyboard. I've got one. It's a real piece of crap.


You know what's weird about what you've just said there? The recreation C64's have cherry switches:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx

I guess the VIC slim uses rubber domes though:


Nice "slimness". Almost tempted to get one for its size.
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Offline Surly73

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 29 July 2011, 13:19:50 »
My Amiga 2000 keyboard is definitely Cherry MX black with doubleshot keys (except for the "Amiga" keys which were printed).

Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 29 July 2011, 15:55:36 »
Doubleshot keys?? That must be the only Amiga keyboard ever to have doubleshot keys. Every other Amiga keyboard is either dye sublimated or pad printed.

Can you take pictures of it? (showing closeup of keys and switch)

Offline czarek

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« Reply #30 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 10:15:51 »
Quote from: mr_a500;389536
Doubleshot keys?? That must be the only Amiga keyboard ever to have doubleshot keys. Every other Amiga keyboard is either dye sublimated or pad printed.

Can you take pictures of it? (showing closeup of keys and switch)

Not really - I always thought all Amiga Cherry keyboards were using double shot caps, that's why they have unnatural for Amiga standard function keys size (like on PC keyboards) for example - they share keys from regular PC Cherry keyboards.
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Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 11:23:12 »
Quote from: czarek;388716
Hey early A2000 made in Germany use cherry keyboards with MX Blacks but I don't like it - too stiff and keys get yellow. I currently use this board with my A500T - it's not Cherry, just some mystery, nice switch:
(Attachment Link) 22588[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 22589[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 22590[/ATTACH]
That's also from early production of A2000 and A500 (1986-1987). Linear, around 55g force. Quite short key travel, around that one of Alps Black. Keycaps are PBT, have a nice rough texture and it's absolute pleasure to use this keyboard, especially for games like pinball :)
It's rehoused to CDTV keyboard case because original case was badly yellowed.

(weird... don't know how I missed half the posts on page 2)

That's definitely the NMB Amiga 2000 keyboard (in CDTV case). I've got that keyboard. It has the shortest key travel of any Amiga keyboard. It's not bad, but I prefer the Amiga 1000 keyboard.

I just popped off a few A1000 keys - and it doesn't look like a Cherry switch at all. I'm trying to identify it. I think I saw the switch on a Japanese site that ripster linked a couple weeks ago. (...if I can find that damn link again)

Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 11:38:04 »


It's a weird switch. The spring is horizontal across the bottom of the slider. At the bottom of the switch is a round thing that the spring bends around. I just need to find a way to open the switch to figure it out. (and also to fix a few that popped out when I removed the keycaps.... oops!)

Offline TexasFlood

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 12:49:02 »
Quote from: mr_a500;389940
Show Image


It's a weird switch. The spring is horizontal across the bottom of the slider. At the bottom of the switch is a round thing that the spring bends around. I just need to find a way to open the switch to figure it out. (and also to fix a few that popped out when I removed the keycaps.... oops!)

I have an Amiga 1000 in the basement as well and looked at this a while back.
Here are some other pictures I found:




The most similar switch I found to it was the mitsumi shown here.  It's not the same but looks similar in some respects, at least to me.


Offline czarek

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« Reply #34 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 14:04:35 »
Quote from: mr_a500;389934
(weird... don't know how I missed half the posts on page 2)

That's definitely the NMB Amiga 2000 keyboard (in CDTV case). I've got that keyboard. It has the shortest key travel of any Amiga keyboard. It's not bad, but I prefer the Amiga 1000 keyboard.

I just popped off a few A1000 keys - and it doesn't look like a Cherry switch at all. I'm trying to identify it. I think I saw the switch on a Japanese site that ripster linked a couple weeks ago. (...if I can find that damn link again)

Correct that's so called NMB keyboard from early A2000 rehoused in CDTV case because original case was made from ABS (in contrast to PBT keycaps) and yellowed badly. It also matches my black Micronik Tower better.
I've never tried A1000 keyboard... What is it like? Clicky? Tactile? Or linear and silent like the NMB and Cherry MX Black?
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Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 30 July 2011, 15:09:41 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;389989
The most similar switch I found to it was the mitsumi shown here.  It's not the same but looks similar in some respects, at least to me.
Show Image

Show Image

Yes, I was thinking it was Mitsumi - because Amiga Mitsumi keycaps fit the A1000. Wow... so it's not Cherry after all. There's another myth destroyed. Everything I have ever read said the A1000 keyboard was by Cherry. At least it's a mechanical Mitsumi - unlike the later "rubber dome on a stick" Mitsumi Amiga keyboards. Feel is very good. Compared to my black Cherry WYSE keyboard (only Cherry keyboard I have to compare with), the A1000 keyboard feels much nicer.
 
Quote from: czarek;390036
Correct that's so called NMB keyboard from early A2000 rehoused in CDTV case because original case was made from ABS (in contrast to PBT keycaps) and yellowed badly. It also matches my black Micronik Tower better.
I've never tried A1000 keyboard... What is it like? Clicky? Tactile? Or linear and silent like the NMB and Cherry MX Black?

Feel is very similar to the SGI granite (white ALPS). It's linear and silent, not clicky or tactile.

Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 31 July 2011, 09:55:48 »
Here's a warning for people wanting to remove the keycaps from a keyboard with these switches: DON'T!

These switches are fragile! Not only do I have the problem of trying to reinsert the 5 sliders that popped out of their switches (how the hell do you open the switch??) but I now have 8 or 9 keys that stick when pressed. It looks like the force needed to pop off the keycaps causes the slider to slightly warp the soft switch case. It's a soft plastic. (damn them and their cheap materials!)

I've popped the keys off at least 50 keyboards and this is the first one that got ruined.

Offline mr_a500

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Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 31 July 2011, 10:02:42 »
I've figured out how to open the switch - testing with the "blank" that the Return uses for stability (it's not soldered). Unfortunately, it looks like the only way to open switches is to rip the whole keyboard apart. Damn it!
« Last Edit: Sun, 31 July 2011, 10:05:05 by mr_a500 »

Offline Izeko

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Re: Amiga 2000 Cherry Keyboard
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 31 March 2017, 17:18:37 »
Did you ever repair your key switch. I have exactly the same problem with my amiga 1000 keyboard.  One switch once pressed does not pop up