The Phantom - and interest check

[dux]

I just disassembled my PLU ml87 out of interest so I thought maybe there would be interest here. I would like to have Cherries even on that board so I'm interested in the Phantom too. Otherwise (keycaps, stailizers), the ml87 seem to be rather close copy of the Filco.

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[litster]

the ML87 bottom case looks very similar to the Filco bottom case.  See ripster's open filco case wiki here for a picture: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6342

[dux]

the ML87 bottom case looks very similar to the Filco bottom case.  See ripster's open filco case wiki here for a picture: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6342

Yeah, I also looked at the Phantom PCB, ML87 seems to be an exact copy. The holes seem to be on the right places.

Now I'm extremely interested in the Phantom, for the Cherries and the possibility of ISO.

[kaiserreich]

Using a Plu to for this mod instead of a FILCO certainly brings the cost down.
But that god awful sticker on the PLU still need to some work for it to go away

[HaveANiceDay]

I just disassembled my PLU ml87 out of interest so I thought maybe there would be interest here. I would like to have Cherries even on that board so I'm interested in the Phantom too. Otherwise (keycaps, stailizers), the ml87 seem to be rather close copy of the Filco.

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Hey, thanks for doing this. Great find!
From the first look it does look like it has compatible holes with the Filco tenkeyless.

[HaveANiceDay]

I just stumbled onto this.

Why not move Mohammed to the Mountain?

Sig>Mods>Keys>Changing Cherry Corp Stepped Capslock to Centered (works for any key really.......)

Also, I'm kinda into OCN/Ducky/KBC engraved PBTs these days.

You're getting old ripster! Missing a lot of what this mod is about
It's not just about the stepped caps, it's about making the Filco(and maybe PLU) completely Cherry caps compatible, including the whole bottom row.
Oh, and the freely programmable controller!

It's also great for dudes that want a HHKB layout with proper dedicated inverted-T arrows!
Want a UNIX layout? It's all here!

And, of course, GEEK PRIDE!
I can't live with the moogle patch kit. It's acceptable for a mere mortal, but a true geek demands more.

[alaricljs]

The ML87 case bottom is identical in every regard except the USB cable exit.  The difference there is of no consequence.

[nathanscribe]

I can foresee one of these landing on my doorstep.  And some time spent on DIYing a case at some point.

Sigh.

[Chobopants]

Hmm, kind of with Ripster on this one. After buying a few different types of custom keys now I'm equally in love with both my KBC PBTs and my blue Topres (though, dear god, someone make a 103U non-ABS spacebar pleaseeeeeeeeeee).

Good luck, though! I'm always in support of people doing crazy **** to further keyboard tinkering! This could set a great precedent for future projects, especially if you guys team up with the wasdkeyboards.com guys eventually!

[alaricljs]

I'm going to be pedantic on this one... I said the case bottom, not the feet which are separate parts.

[dux]

Does the PLU have rubber feet - both lowered and raised?
(Attachment Link) 22510[/ATTACH]

PLU has no feet. PLU has crutches. Therefore you can also call it The Cyborg-Keyboard.

[molto]

Did someone ask about the Leopold FC200R? I mean they had at least the same designer.
E.: ok i've seen the post now

[HaveANiceDay]

Did someone ask about the Leopold FC200R? I mean the had at least the same designer.

Yes, the Leopold did come up. Sadly it has a different internal layout, especially the holes are in different places. One hole would interfere with the LED's on the Filco.
Still, nothing is final yet.

[dux]

Using a Plu to for this mod instead of a FILCO certainly brings the cost down.
But that god awful sticker on the PLU still need to some work for it to go away

Somebody should make an aluminium Geekhack badge in the right size. I really don't have a better idea:( Or a Phantom badge or sticker.

[dux]

Does anybody knows why this is possible, but not 3-D-printing of keys or even whole keyboard case?

[alaricljs]

Case bottom from shapeways for an 87 key board is ~$100 US plus shipping, in White/Strong/Flexible   Move on up to the acrylic based 'Black Detail' for the low low price of $308 US plus shipping.

[dux]

Case bottom from shapeways for an 87 key board is ~$100 US plus shipping, in White/Strong/Flexible   Move on up to the acrylic based 'Black Detail' for the low low price of $308 US plus shipping.

I see.

[alaricljs]

So yeah, turns out it's cheaper to find a KB you like the looks of and buy it for the bulk of your parts while designing your PCB around that case.

[RiGS]

Hmm, kind of with Ripster on this one. After buying a few different types of custom keys now I'm equally in love with both my KBC PBTs and my blue Topres (though, dear god, someone make a 103U non-ABS spacebar pleaseeeeeeeeeee).

Good luck, though! I'm always in support of people doing crazy **** to further keyboard tinkering! This could set a great precedent for future projects, especially if you guys team up with the wasdkeyboards.com guys eventually!

I still remember how ripster said that he liked the Topre keys the best of currently shipping keys for their velvety grippy texture.

[bpiphany]

[Cue violins]

Now it is time for PCB reviews with Prince O. Sedatives
Tonights review: The Phantom

OhmygodthisisthegreatestPCBIhaveeverdesignedinmylife  *Spoilers*




I may have gone a bit over the top. My project manager will have to judge on that. Some silkscreen ended up on the wrong side or mirrored, I will of course fix that. These are only teaser, not the final design. I don't even know if we will have silkscreen on both sides. I don't think it saves a lot with only one side though.

I also tapped into the gerber subspace structure with some home written hacks. The files check out OK in gerbv but it remains to be seen what the manufacturer thinks.

[litster]

Looking good!

Question.  Would the current ALT and Ctrl keys locations on your PCB work for either 1.25 and 1.5 width keycaps?

[alaricljs]

Yes.... It's not entirely on those images he posted, but the way it was done is to make a oval slot to accommodate the large round protrusion of the switch in the 2 locations.  There are 4 pads for each switch location (these are in the image).  Rotate the switch 180 degrees and fit it to the correct pads for 1.5 vs 1.25

[litster]

Ah, I see the 4 small circles for the each of the front row keys.  Nifty!

[bpiphany]

Yes.... It's not entirely on those images he posted, but the way it was done is to make a oval slot to accommodate the large round protrusion of the switch in the 2 locations.

Exactly this. Gerbv doesn't display oval holes, or it doesn't interpret the KiCAD hole files as it should. I sort of knew this, but forgot about it. I was in a bit of a hurry doing the back too. There are some extra legends in there, and I see now that "PAUSE" extends beyond the PCB edge.

[HaveANiceDay]

I may have gone a bit over the top. My project manager will have to judge on that.

YES, silkscreen will be on both sides.

It's looking better and better every time!

[laden3]

Interested.

[002]

I'm interested.

[bpiphany]

YES, silkscreen will be on both sides.

It's looking better and better every time!

Eeew, I don't know if I am comfortable with this,.. boss.

[HaveANiceDay]

Added the interest list in the first post, updated the FAQ a little with the PLU ML-87 compatibility.

[mmmty]

Interested++

[BiNiaRiS]

I am 100% in for this so add me to the list.

I want a tenkeyless that I can use a full set of Cherry Dye Sub RGBs on sooo bad.

[litster]

HaveANiceDay, I know you have my name on the list already.  Do we need to note how many we are interested in?  I think I want to get 2 :-).

[HaveANiceDay]

HaveANiceDay, I know you have my name on the list already.  Do we need to note how many we are interested in?  I think I want to get 2 :-).

Not at this time, but I assumed some will want more than 1 set, myself included.

[Index]

I would pay extra if you supported the Leopold.


Perhaps 50$ more?

[BiNiaRiS]

I would pay extra if you supported the Leopold.


Perhaps 50$ more?

It'd be sweet if that is possible but there's a good chance that it won't be.

The ML-87 compatibility is huge though, makes getting a shell for one of these much cheaper. I think I'd have a hard time shelling out $140 for a filco only to scrap most of it.

HaveANiceDay, this will essentially be solder on your own switches and you are good to go right? If it's gonna be like the korean kits where you have to be a soldering god and solder on the chips as well, I might be SOL.

[bpiphany]

It'd be sweet if that is possible but there's a good chance that it won't be.

The ML-87 compatibility is huge though, makes getting a shell for one of these much cheaper. I think I'd have a hard time shelling out $140 for a filco only to scrap most of it.

HaveANiceDay, this will essentially be solder on your own switches and you are good to go right? If it's gonna be like the korean kits where you have to be a soldering god and solder on the chips as well, I might be SOL.

Yes, you will only need to do the soldering. And uploading the firmware, but that is super simple as long as you're not going for some personal customization. The Teensy pins are 0.1" spaced. A steady hand helps but I do it with a pretty thick solder iron tip myself.

Buying extra switches from mouser or elsewhere makes it possible to just save the old innards of the Filco and make a complete new one, for easy switching back.

[BiNiaRiS]

Yes, you will only need to do the soldering. And uploading the firmware, but that is super simple as long as you're not going for some personal customization. The Teensy pins are 0.1" spaced. A steady hand helps but I do it with a pretty thick solder iron tip myself.

Buying extra switches from mouser or elsewhere makes it possible to just save the old innards of the Filco and make a complete new one, for easy switching back.

How many connections from the Teensy to the board are there?

Also, how is the progress coming, any ETA? Is there a long process to get these manufactured?

[bpiphany]

How many connections from the Teensy to the board are there?

Also, how is the progress coming, any ETA? Is there a long process to get these manufactured?

All of them =) 6 rows, 17 columns, 2 LEDs.

The PCB is more or less done, just cosmetic things to fix. HaveANiceDay needs to figure out where and how to have the mounting plates done. But that is pretty much it I think. The PCB manufacturing time is 10 days from order.

[drstupid]

This seems like a good thread for my first post so: cool project, I'm interested.  

We would need 1-sized windows keycaps for in between CTRL and ALT, but luckily there are cheap Cherry boards with just the right keycaps available.

Which Cherry board has the Windows keys, are they doubleshots?  I'll probably end up with doubleshots from the group 4 buy but maybe I can find an old Cherry board somewhere.

[HaveANiceDay]

Welcome to Geekhack.

Doubleshot Windows keys from Cherry Corp don't exist AFAIK.

Unless this odd Korean model had it.
(Attachment Link) 23094[/ATTACH]

Yeah, they will be lase(re)d.

[xbb]

I'm interested!

[BiNiaRiS]

i'm interested!

omg i wants one so bads

[Tastybyte]

Can you explain the purpose of this project to someone who doesn't get it from reading the OP? Ok imagine I have a Filco, what does this kit do to my filco? Why do I want to mod my filco?

Edit: Ok Im looking over the OP again and my interpretation is: cherry keycaps don't fit on stock filco. So you are doing major part swapping inside to make it compatible with cherry key caps? If it is replacing the PCB, the controller, and the mounting plate PLUS throw on some cherry POM keycaps, how much of my original keyboard is even left? Can I call it a filco at that point?

[Pylon]

Not very much. Personally, I don't think using a $150 keyboard just for the case and switches is too economically efficient.

[Tastybyte]

Right. If I understand this correctly, then it seems a perfect match to the PLU 87. Also consider that the controller of the phantom should be a welcome upgrade to the PLU's.

[bpiphany]

I guess it could be called a phantom after the "upgrade". Switches are ~$0.70 or more in quantities of ~80 (and somewhat hard to get in all variants without using a donor board), a custom case is ridiculously expensive.

There is nothing stooping you from making a complete new innards for the Filco case if ordering new switches too. This is could in a way be like having two keyboards with different switches.

Also using a Teensy allows for programming the keyboard to do all sort of things. Macros and stuff. The Teensy is actually rather powerful.

[dux]

Phantom is a luxury article

advantages:

1) ISO possible (there is no other ISO tenkeyless except Filco on the market currently)
2) even old Cherry doubleshot keys possible, without any further mods (even those without win keys and stepped CapsLock). There is no other Cherry mx tenkeyless with out Winkeys on the market currently.
3) programmable

[mtl]

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PrinsValium, is it possible to add a hole between the G, H, and B keys for trackpoint mods?  According to input nirvana's mod, it needs to be about 13/64" (a little over 5mm).

[bpiphany]

PrinsValium, is it possible to add a hole between the G, H, and B keys for trackpoint mods?  According to input nirvana's mod, it needs to be about 13/64" (a little over 5mm).

Gosh, that was one long article... But sure, I don't see any reason why that couldn't be added. Would that be in the exact point where the keys outlines intersect? And what would the exact size of the hole be?

Edit: I mean centered vertically between the rows, and centered horizontally between G and H?

[mtl]

Thanks, PrinsValium!

The hole should be located such that, after key caps are installed, the hole is centered horizontally between right edge of G & left edge of H, and vertically between bottom edge of G|H and top edge of B. zmurf has some pictures of the keyboard membrane and a hole he drilled, to get an idea. Lowpoly also posted some work-in-progress pictures up here of his Guru keyboard, but I can't seem to find them now.  Maybe zmurf, input nirvana, lowpoly, or ricercar (or someone else) can comment on the specific dimensions? I don't have a TrackPoint stick yet to measure it -- perhaps in a week or two.

Here are a couple pictures for inspiration: 1, 2