Rsi

[Zamorph]

To anyone who had a 104 board and now a tenkeyless....

Did you notice less flare ups when using a tenkeyless board vs 104?

I know TLK is more ergo, Jw if there are any testimonials.

[jpc]

TKL will not cure your RSI. Been there, tried that.

If the presence of a numpad were the only problem with your hardware, posture, habits, health level, sleep level, and stress level, you wouldn't have any pain. So probably a lot of things need adjustment. Fixing each one will make your pain 5% better. For me it took a lot of trial and error.

This is what worked for me.

[Lanx]

TKL is only a small part of ergo, while most all ergo is subjective, i'm confident in saying that TKL will only help with shoulder relief and maybe a bit of elbow, it will not contribute much to what most consider the big pain of RSI/CTS which is in the forearms, if you're having RSI flare ups, i'd seriously really look towards different options, if you want more just ask i'm sure many will be happy to ask, but no imo TKL helps in overall ergo, but dones nearly nill for RSI.

[pitashen]

tenkeyless shouldn't be any (if at all) more ergonomics than the standard 104 keyboard. Do notice that RSI stands for Repetitive Strain Injury, meaning tenkeyless would do little to no improvement to the RSI, since RSI is caused by repetitively using only certain parts of the muscles with small movements while typing on standard shaped home row area.

[eipxen]

Hmm, pitashen, while I see your point, I think what would make tkl more ergonomic is that, if you are right handed, at least, the mouse would be closer to your home rows, so you wouldn't need to move so much to reach it every time.  Since you may be reaching for your mouse very often, that could contribute to your rsi, at least in the severity of the stress, rather than the number of repetitions.

That being said, I was getting wrist pains in my right forearm, and I decided to start using my mouse with my left hand, and I've learned to use the mouse less and less.  I think habits end up making a much bigger difference than the gear you're using, so if you have RSI, or think you are developing RSI, I think adjusting habits is more important than buying new things (as I'm sure other people will tell you if you ask).

Stay strong!  RSI is a bugger

[hashbaz]

Agree.  Left-handed mousing (and switching to a Evoluent vertical mouse) helped a lot for me.  Another huge improvement came when I stopped using the mouse scroll wheel.  Doing that a ton is killer on your wrists.  And believe it or not, forcing myself to use the "proper" finger for each key also helped a lot.

[jpc]

believe it or not, forcing myself to use the "proper" finger for each key also helped a lot.

+1

Touch typing with proper finger-to-key assignment allows me to use lighter switches like cherry browns -- and to press them softly. Softer presses are a huge help for sore wrist tendons. Proper key assignment is the way to get there.

Switching from QWERTY to something designed after 1900 helps too...

[hashbaz]

Yeah I'm working on learning Colemak currently.

[Proword]

Maltron keyboard, using the Malt layout,


http://www.maltron.com/

and for sweet "mousing", if you don't fancy the built in track ball,



can swap from left to right in a couple of seconds.  No lifting anything to operate.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs/devices/4680


Joe

[TacticalCoder]

Agree.  Left-handed mousing (and switching to a Evoluent vertical mouse) helped a lot for me.

This exactly.  Learn to use your mouse as a leftie.  It's the thing that helped the RSI-like symptoms starting in my right-hand.

Then you can regularly "switch" from left-hand to right-hand if you want.

And believe it or not, forcing myself to use the "proper" finger for each key also helped a lot.

And this too.

[shrap]

Show Image

can swap from left to right in a couple of seconds.  No lifting anything to operate.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs/devices/4680


Joe

Or just get two, one for each side of the keyboard. They're so small and cheap. Then you can use whichever hand isn't on the keyboard.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

It takes some adjusting, but ditching your mouse in favour of a Wacom stylus has been shown to alleviate RSI. I have tried it myself in the past when I've had pain/sensitivity in my wrist and hands, it does make an immediate difference.

[Proword]

Or just get two, one for each side of the keyboard. They're so small and cheap. Then you can use whichever one isn't on the keyboard.

Like this you mean?  ;-)



Joe

[Zamorph]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I wish TLK cured RSI  I been going lefty for a few days.  Idk why, but I just got 11 hours of sleep one night and my wrist felt way better.  Shrug, rsi is weird.

[iindigo]

Show Image

These are great, but beware; the most-used primary button has a nasty tendency to stop working properly. After around a year of use, the left button has always started double-clicking for me. My brother and I have been through between 4 and 6 of these in the past 4 or 5 years.

[Input Nirvana]

For what it's worth, pm me in a week, I may be selling my pristine Datahand if you're interested.

[hashbaz]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I wish TLK cured RSI  I been going lefty for a few days.  Idk why, but I just got 11 hours of sleep one night and my wrist felt way better.  Shrug, rsi is weird.

That makes a lot of sense -- my experience has been that RSI pain and fatigue build up over time, and release during rest periods.  When my daughter was born I took three weeks off with very little typing, and the accumulated fatigue in my forearms just went away.  It hasn't returned with anywhere near the same intensity since (thanks I'm sure to the new habits I've been cultivating).

[sordna]

This keyboard is wonderful if you have RSI, apart from typing by merely touching the surface, you mouse by dragging your fingers on the right half of the keyboard, and you can move the text cursor by dragging fingers on the left half (which actually does rapid arrow key presses). No drivers needed, it's brilliant. Too bad Apple bought Fingerworks for their patents and discontinued their products, only to use a small fraction of their amazing features. Excuse my bad pic:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 27510[/ATTACH]

[Deverica Wolf]

I don't have RSI or anything but my hands and wrists get achy sometimes and can (rarely) get sore for days.

I use a Steelcase Amia chair (similar to the Leap with a less flexible back and perhaps more comfort) so I can adjust my hands and elbows to any area I want. I seem to type better without a wrist rest with my hands right on top of the board. I am typing on two stand-up tables (more room than a keyboard tray).

I didn't have a problem with a Full-size until I tried a Tenkeyless out. Now I am switching over to them and buying a separate Numpad.

I went back to the Full-size, in-fact typing on a Unicomp Spacesaver right now, and unless I move the Numpad over to my mouse area, typing is very uncomfortable. I feel aches because my hands are twisting in an unnatural way. It's just odd and I can't type accurate or fast like this. I bet it would take a toll after doing it for years. And with the keyboard right on top of my mousepad, my mouse has pretty much no room to move. Also, the 'board is not evenly leveled because of the mousepad's height. If I move my mouse more to the right that becomes uncomfortable.

So though I love my Model M, I am going to save it for articles and writing when the mouse is not in major use because I think it's the best keyboard out there. The future, it's all Tenkeylesses for me. I mean, the 'board is right in-front of you. Who wouldn't want that?

Get a comfy chair with good arms (Steelcase has the best arms) and a Tenkeyless, along with switching to Colemak, and you should feel some improvements. Good luck.

[TacticalCoder]

I went back to the Full-size, in-fact typing on a Unicomp Spacesaver right now, and unless I move the Numpad over to my mouse area, typing is very uncomfortable. I feel aches because my hands are twisting in an unnatural way. It's just odd and I can't type accurate or fast like this.

For what it is worth: I do align the "effective typing middle" of the keyboard (I don't know how to call that: on QWERTY/AZERTY the middle between 'f' and 'j') with the center of the monitor.  I do this with full-sized Model Ms so the numpad is effectively "far at the right".  And then I learned to use the mouse with my left-hand: it was a long time ago but I remember it didn't talk that long.  Unless you're into gaming you shouldn't have much problem learning to use your mouse as a leftie.

But then if you don't want to learn to use your mouse with your left hand and if you love buckling springs and want tenkeyless, then you could buy a SSK: they're kinda expensive but it seems like it could be the perfect match in your case (and they're not *that* much expensive that another good TKL you'd have to buy anyway).  Then you could become part of the GeekHack "IBM Model M Space Saving Club": http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?10249-IBM-Model-M-Space-Saving-Club : )

[Deverica Wolf]

For what it is worth: I do align the "effective typing middle" of the keyboard (I don't know how to call that: on QWERTY/AZERTY the middle between 'f' and 'j') with the center of the monitor.  I do this with full-sized Model Ms so the numpad is effectively "far at the right".  And then I learned to use the mouse with my left-hand: it was a long time ago but I remember it didn't talk that long.  Unless you're into gaming you shouldn't have much problem learning to use your mouse as a leftie.

I never once thought of using the mouse with the left hand. It's a good idea as I decided to buy a stand-alone Numpad and learn to use it with my left hand as well. The problem is I do game with two of the best mice out there and they are both shaped for small right-handers. There is no left-hand equivalent for me, sadly.

But then if you don't want to learn to use your mouse with your left hand and if you love buckling springs and want tenkeyless, then you could buy a SSK: they're kinda expensive but it seems like it could be the perfect match in your case (and they're not *that* much expensive that another good TKL you'd have to buy anyway).  Then you could become part of the GeekHack "IBM Model M Space Saving Club": http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?10249-IBM-Model-M-Space-Saving-Club : )

I do love BS. What the hell is a SSK? I Googled it and nothing. Where do I buy one?

I found this...do want.

[dorkvader]

Yep, SSK is for "Space Saving Keyboard" Specifically, the IBM Model M Space saving keyboard. That's what you sholud get. ) I want one, too.

[Proword]

These are great, but beware; the most-used primary button has a nasty tendency to stop working properly. After around a year of use, the left button has always started double-clicking for me. My brother and I have been through between 4 and 6 of these in the past 4 or 5 years.

I've only bought two in about 4 years, and they both work very well.  I had a problem once, similar to your double click, but I used a fine artist's paint brush in the gap around the buttons, then a small vacuum cleaner to pick up the dirt and voila.  No more problem.

Joe

[pitashen]

If you problem is the wrist pain from using mouse (gaming too hard), then getting a trackball would help a lot of that. I game with regular mouse while using trackball for other day to day operations.