Author Topic: Just Bought a Das, Seeking Advice... (Read 4061 times)

Mr. Glass · « **on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 20:52:17 »

Hello,

I just bought a Das Model S Ultimate Silent. I really love the look of the blank keys (and it buys me great geek cred at work), but I'm just not liking the feel. My favorite input method by far is Dragon Naturally Speaking, but when I have to use a keyboard, I think I like the one on my MacBook Air the best. I am considering getting this Apple keyboard for use with the laptop supplied by my work (not my MacBook Air):

Apple MB110LL (Tried to link to Amazon, but don't have enough posts yet for external URLs, Google search will show this model).

My gripe with it is that it seems to have greater resistance to each key press, than the one on my Air and MacBook Pros.

Is there anything similar in form factor with that style of keys/mechanics that has less resistance?

Also, I could certainly brush up on my typing skills in general and am toying with the idea of trying to learn Dvorak. Are there any programs or websites in particular that you'd recommend for Dvorak or just refining accuracy on QWERTY?

Thank you for your input and please excuse any lapses in terminology as I am a keyboard n00b for the most part.

-Glass

pitashen · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 20:54:40 »

Quote from: Mr. Glass;434088

(Tried to link to Amazon, but don't have enough posts yet for external URLs, Google search will show this model).

Someone is going to comment about this real soon.

pitashen · « **Reply #2 on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 20:56:41 »

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VGP-BKB1-VAIO-Bluetooth-Keyboard/dp/B002TSLYVK

I tried it at BestBuy. Feels pretty darn good IMO. Nice Sony style too (or apple copy cap whatever).

Playtrumpet · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 21:06:25 »

Funny. I got my Das (same as yours) and then decided to learn Dvorak. The amount of effort is measured by the force required to depress the key AND the travel distance. That said, having gone from a MacBook keyboard (scissor switches) to Cherry MX Browns, I still felt from the moment I got my Das that the keys were lighter to press and it took less effort to type, even bottoming out (which you might try to train yourself not to do).

I still use my MacBook and therefore I'm still often using its keyboard, but I really don't like it so much. Scissor switches are fine, but sometimes you can really notice them getting slightly loose and weaker over time. But it took me a little time before my Das became preferable to the MacBook keyboard, and again I encourage you to try typing without bottoming out.

As for switching layouts, I'm a big fan, but making the big change from QWERTY isn't a decision made lightly. Also, make sure you research the other alternative layouts before making your final decision. I chose Dvorak because it suited my preferences, but other layouts are just as efficient and you may like the look of them better. People tell stories all the time of switching from one layout to the next, though I will say that most popular layouts created for efficiency are more enjoyable to type with than QWERTY.

enoy21 · « **Reply #4 on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 21:11:56 »

How long have you had the DAS ? The first few days of having my WASD I was a bit deflated but as mentioned by a few people here , I gave it a few days to a week and now I love it. Then I went to browns and fell in love immediately. Could it just take some getting used to ?

Mr. Glass · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 21:38:51 »

Quote from: enoy21;434098

How long have you had the DAS ?

It has been about a week now, and I have no aversion to continuing to try for a while longer as long as I don't get too close to the end of the 30 day return period.

As Playtrumpet mentioned, I am sure that it has a lot to do with improper form. Are there guides or exercises that can help improve this (aside from the usual typing programs)?

-Glass

enoy21 · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 21:43:10 »

I'm in the same boat about trying to re learn to type after some terrible habits for so long. I've been using http://www.typingweb.com/tutor/courses/

But since you are not actually using words it's very hard to get into a rhythm and is frustrating. Tonight I whipped out my book and just started typing paragraphs very ...... very slowly to try and maintain focus on proper methods rather than reverting back for speed.

Playtrumpet · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 18 October 2011, 22:11:50 »

Whichever keyboard you decide to stick with, if you want to learn Dvorak, I started with ABCD. Learned the layout from there in a day and just started typing paragraphs via Typeracer and Keyhero.

After ABCD I started at a slow pace of 15 wpm on Typeracer and just kept training everyday. Some people try to go cold turkey when changing layouts, but I found that impossible and impractical since I had to get regular typing tasks over with quickly every day. So for the first couple weeks, my Dvorak typing was confined to typing races, and my training progressed fine after my wpm reached the point where QWERTY was unnecessary.

btdubs - Keyhero has a great feature where you can finish a quote and simply press enter for the next. It allows for a lot more typing and you take your hands off the keyboard much less. I'd recommend this for regular, leisurely practice.

enoy21 · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 19 October 2011, 07:04:12 »

Thanks for those suggestions on keyhero. I'm going to look into that a little more today.

Tony · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 19 October 2011, 08:15:16 »

For alternative layouts, you may want to try Colemak (my switch experience) instead of Dvorak. Colemak has 10 common keys (qwahzxcvbm) with Qwerty (while Dvorak has only 2 keys "am"), so you will learn Colemak faster.

duncan · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 19 October 2011, 10:21:01 »

I have one of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/79-key-compact-slim-usb-keyboard-white-silver-120cm-cable-48597
Amazingly good for the very low price (you get what you pay for but when you are paying so little...)

sinis · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 19 October 2011, 11:14:44 »

Quote from: ripster;434484

I'm still waiting for a ThinkPad owner to RipOmeter one of these so called MAGICAL thinkpad scissor keyboards that PC World raves about.

which ones?

Lolcakes · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 19 October 2011, 11:32:02 »

I have a Thinkpad T41p and a Thinkpad T61, I am gonna ripometer them tonight and post here:p Just for the record, the keyboard of the T41p feels waaaaaay better than the one of T61. Which is strange because the rubber dome is supposed to be more "worn" i guess.

My normal keyboard is Filco MX blues.

Lolcakes · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 19 October 2011, 16:03:58 »

So I have the T41p actuating with 17 x 1 pence coins (3.56g each) = 64.08 grams
The T61 actuates with 18 x 1 pence coins (3.56g each) = 67.64 grams

The travel distance of both is precisely 2mm. Both switches feel very tactile. The tactile bump peaks near to the top of the travel distance and the dome seems to collapse down very quickly past the bump. The keys on the T41p seem to be more solid and traveling only up/ down where the keys of the T61 feel a tad more "wobbly" and less sturdy.

Btw, sorry for the dust in the pictures... I dont really use my T41p and I havent taken care of it for a long time.

T41p:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 29036[/ATTACH]

T61:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 29037[/ATTACH]

Edit : Notice how contrast-y the key caps pad printing is on the T41p

This computer is from 2002 and they are all still in place. (=

Lolcakes · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 19 October 2011, 18:33:09 »

I found 2 differences between the T41p and the T61.
1 - The scissors for the switches look slightly different.
2 - the plate that supports the whole keyboard is very different - The one on t41p is a lot thicker. The one on the T61 is thiner and seems more prone to allow some flexing. (This may be the main reason why t41's kb feels so much better (and the laptop is heavier i guess)

vividboarder · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 20 October 2011, 13:59:47 »

ripster, I just read your ripOmeter link, so I'll try to scrounge up some nickles and get some data too.

I just bought a Filco Majestouch-2 TKL (my first mech keyboard!) but prior my favorite feeling keyboard has been my T400 keyboard. I also have an iMac with one of the aluminum wireless keybords with no num pad and a Macbook Pro (non unibody, first gen).

Before testing the actual force required, I'd have to say one of the reasons I like the Thinkpad more than the others is the key travel. The chicklet keys on the iMac have almost no travel and I feel like I'm just banging my fingers on my desk. The Macbook Pro I have has keys that are shaped very similar to the T400 so it may be interesting to see if I can figure out what exactly makes me prefer the feel of the T400.

I never really put much/any thought into keyboards until I got my Thinkpad and realized how much better it felt. That kind of motivated me to go seek out alternate keyboards for my desktop. I was suckered in when I typed a bit on my friends Das (Blues) and I can already tell this is going to cost me a lot of money in the next few years, haha.

woody · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 20 October 2011, 15:34:06 »

Dunno. I recently got one - nothing to write home about.
But that's from someone who finds PerfectStroke a PerfectJoke.

woody · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 21 October 2011, 11:38:38 »

Quote from: ripster;436068

The aura of IBM. Even if it is just another Chinese company now.

True.

laffindude · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 21 October 2011, 12:11:57 »

Quote from: ripster;436068

If the stabilizers, rubber domes, and keys are all generic OEM stuff what's the difference? I think it might be McGurk effect. The aura of IBM. Even if it is just another Chinese company now.

Mounting has a lot to do with it. Thinkpad keys feels less mushy than an Asus. You can feel the whole keyboard area flex as you type on an Asus. The Thinkpad keys also have a longer travel than your generic scissor switch. You can buy a USB version of the keyboard, Trackpoint and all, from newegg for 50 bucks to try it out

It's no mechanical but it's one of the better scissor switch IMO.

daerid · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 21 October 2011, 12:43:43 »

Personally, if I were going to use a scissor switch, I'd go with the Apple Aluminum keyboard. They just feel the best to me, no idea why. It probably has more to do with the rubber used in the plunger than anything due to the actual scissor mechanism itself.

JustCallMeCrash · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 21 October 2011, 14:57:53 »

Mr. Glass - as odd as it sounds, some of the typing programs for kids are GREAT for forcing yourself to learn Dvorak. I started out with a linux program (which is , I believe, available in the Ubuntu repositories) called dvorak7min. It's a really good tutor.
After that I played several games like word-blaster, etc and typed lots and lots of posts to forums and instant messages. Today I type WAAAAY faster (and more comfortably) on Dvorak than I ever did with QWERTY.

AOEUI for the win.

Lolcakes · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 21 October 2011, 16:20:50 »

Hmm I think i found something. I measured again the travel distance and the t41p seems to have 50% more travel O:
T61:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 29429[/ATTACH]

T41p:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 29430[/ATTACH]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 29431[/ATTACH]

I am not sure how accurate these measurements are but i tried my best to keep the angle of the pencil the same every time.

The reference is my desktop kb - 4mm - MX blues
T61 - 2mm
T41p - 3mm

I really wish it was possible for me to swap the keyboards of the T61 and T41p... but they are not compatible :/

Quote from: ripster;436168

It has longer travel? That would be good. I should try one sometime. So far my favorite scissor switch I tried is the Logitech Google TV Revue keyboard.

Still, looks pretty generic...

laffindude · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat, 22 October 2011, 08:50:34 »

^Nice info.
ripster: if you're going to try some scissors, do try out Zippy's. Their switch have 3.5mm travel, and feels semi decent.

News:

Author Topic: Just Bought a Das, Seeking Advice... (Read 4061 times)

woody

woody