Razer BlackWidow or Leopold FC500R

[Twitch]

I'm getting my very first mechanical keyboard soon, and I'm having a hard time deciding between these two. Since I haven't really been researching mechanical keyboards much, I don't know which brand is the "best" but I don't want to spend too much on a keyboard, which is what lead me to these choices (both are the exact same price). I've heard bad things about Razer's build quality, but then again I don't know much about Leopold either. The thing which attracts me to the BlackWidow the most is the macro keys and actual look of it while the Leopold lacks the macro keys and looks quite "boring", but if the BlackWidow is going to start having problems in the first year or two I'd rather go with the Leopold. Does anyone have any experience with these two keyboards, which do you recommend?

A second question regarding choosing my first mechanical keyboard .. the switches. I've looked up all the switches on various websites (including geekhack) and the general consensus is:
- Blacks are great for gaming, but (apparently) you start getting quite tired after LONG gaming sessions due to the way the black switches work. Not great for typing on.
- Reds are arguably the best switch for gaming, but frustrating to type on.
- Blue is great for typing, but some people have issues gaming on them (such as double tapping).
- Browns are a great middle ground for typing and gaming and seem to be the most popular.

If I'm correct with the above, should someone like me who games A LOT but doesn't want to gimp his typing experience go with the browns? Obviously if I were to choose browns I'd have to go with the Leopold FC500R as the BlackWidow uses blue switches (no Stealth version in my country and shipping one is way too expensive).

Thanks in advance.

edit: If there are any other keyboards at or below the same price you think would be a better choice let me know. I'm in Australia and I'd prefer to buy it from an Australian store to avoid gigantic shipping costs.

[slueth]

whats wrong with reds for typing?

[Quarzac]

I would go with blues and probably a Leopold. I liked blues more than browns, even though they're a little strange for gaming with at first. They're not bad, they just have a bit of an adaptation period. I would say their definite superiority for typing makes them a clear choice over the browns. The negative for gaming does not outweigh the positive of blues. But you should attempt to try both switches. Try a Best Buy or something. They usually carry Blackwidows, and there's now a variant with browns, so you may be able to try both.

Between the Blackwidow and the Leopold, the Leopold feels more sturdy than the Blackwidow, and the fact that it is "boring" means you have a lot more options in the way of aftermarket key caps. The macro keys are cool in theory, but the lack of persistent memory makes setting them up a bit annoying if you lose your settings for one reason or another (say an OS reinstall).

[Twitch]

whats wrong with reds for typing?

I'm not speaking from experience, this is just what I've heard from looking around for info on each switch.

[slueth]

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3456952

here mate, a nice deal on a black widow.
56 dollars

[Kamikaze K]

there are any other keyboards at or below the same price you think would be a better choice let me know. I'm in Australia and I'd prefer to buy it from an Australian store to avoid gigantic shipping costs.

 Mate, have you thought of the Tenkeyless option?  Have look at these... These have been getting pretty decent reviews and have been speculated that they are a rebranded Costar made 'board with a few "Gaming" features thrown in.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=113_1294

I went from the full keyboard to a TKL and have been loving it... Having my arms closer feels so much more comfortable for gaming marathons and plus the added space saved is nice too.

If you are looking for a full sized Keyboard then I'd probably lean towards that Leopold.  My first Mech'board was BWU.  It was a good board but I found the lack of NKRO and the fact that sometimes the key regisration would get stuck (finding myself strafing left when A wasn't pressed) a big contributing factor in me returning it and looking for alternatives.  I went for a Filco Multicam TKL with Black switches next while I waited for the Ducky Shines to come in and absolutely loved it.  I'm currently trying out the Ducky Shine (Blue's) now... And though I love the Shine I'm finding myself looking longingly at my Filco which is sitting behind me.  

  Anyway, good hunting. I reckon have a look at the Quickfire's.

[flyball]

just pick one. http://mechkeyboards.com/ is australia based.

[Tony]

Blackwidow got many QC problems. I'd buy Leopold if I were you, brown or red switch.

[TheProfosist]

wouldnt touck a Black Widow if I didnt have to. there are a ton of better boards. Leopold is definitely high in my list.

[lyk503]

If you are trying to get it for cheap, then the Black Widow is on sale right now.

Otherwise, I would go for the Leopold brown or red... Or blue if you're into that switch.

[Wallach]

If you don't mind the expense I would take a Leopold over a Black Widow, even as your first mechanical.

As for the switch, I think you'll just have to make your own judgment call and pick the one that sounds most suited to what you personally want. I've been using a Das S with blues for about four months now, and while I enjoy the feel of the switch, I actually type worse on these switches than any other type I have owned (brown/blue/Topre). Typing wound up being the worst aspect of the switch for me, but I find that I still quite like blues just for the interesting tactile feedback (though I have to admit they are probably my least favorite switch of the three).

Basically, you'll just want to ask yourself if you want a completely smooth travel from start to finish (linear blacks or reds), or you want that tactile feedback around the actuation point (tactile browns or blues). I would not worry too much about one switch being "not good enough" for one task or the other; if you like using a particular switch in general you'll have no problem taking it to any task at all.

[Blaec]

If you don't mind the expense I would take a Leopold over a Black Widow, even as your first mechanical.

As for the switch, I think you'll just have to make your own judgment call and pick the one that sounds most suited to what you personally want. I've been using a Das S with blues for about four months now, and while I enjoy the feel of the switch, I actually type worse on these switches than any other type I have owned (brown/blue/Topre). Typing wound up being the worst aspect of the switch for me, but I find that I still quite like blues just for the interesting tactile feedback (though I have to admit they are probably my least favorite switch of the three).

Basically, you'll just want to ask yourself if you want a completely smooth travel from start to finish (linear blacks or reds), or you want that tactile feedback around the actuation point (tactile browns or blues). I would not worry too much about one switch being "not good enough" for one task or the other; if you like using a particular switch in general you'll have no problem taking it to any task at all.

Leopolds are $40 cheaper the BW's in Aus from PCCG.
So definitely go Leopold, unless you really, really need macro keys.

You could even save $10 and get a CM storm.

[Twitch]

Leopolds are $40 cheaper the BW's in Aus from PCCG.
So definitely go Leopold, unless you really, really need macro keys.

You could even save $10 and get a CM storm.

I believe you're talking about the BlackWidow ultimate, which only adds LEDs and a headphone jack for an extra $40. The standard BlackWidow is the same price as the Leopold FC500R.

From these posts I'm leaning towards Leopold, no one has suggested the BlackWidow yet. Unfortunately I can't buy the cheap BlackWidows on sale as I'm in Australia and they either don't ship to me or charge a shipping fee high enough to put it above the normal price of the BlackWidow.

[blert]

Personally, blues kind of bug me for gaming.   After all while, where I'm using the same keys over and over, the little peepy-clicky sound wears on me.  This is completely subjective of course, as has probably been noted on every keyswitch-choice thread here.  

Otherwise, my impression is that Leopold is a more solid all-around switch, but it doesn't have the extra "gaming features", which I think means macro keys and a fierce logo or two.  And weird angles.
For some reason, the Razer also lacks NKRO, which could be suboptimal for a gaming board.

I have a Leopold brown and a Rosewill blue, though I was very, very close to buying a CM Storm.

Leopold is probably easier to resell if you dislike it.  I'd be tempted to go for the CM Storm.

[blert]

I'm not speaking from experience, this is just what I've heard from looking around for info on each switch.

Sounds like crazy talk to me.   My next keyboard dedicated for heavy typing will be red switches, unless I go for maybe clears (uh, unless there's a really good deal on something else).
Everyone loves reds except people with giant hamhock fingers.  I know this for a fact.

[Wogrim]

I don't think reds are any worse than browns for typing.  I'm actually a bit worried I'll never go back to my browns.  I tried to a couple days ago and the bump is too much work for my fingers now.

[sapht]

I've played SC2 and CS on blues and browns. Blues didn't feel appropriate at all for CS, even less than rubber domes. Blues worked fine for SC2 but if you're the skinny kind of geek they might make you tired. Browns felt fine with both games. Super Meat Boy also plays a lot better on browns.

I actually prefer typing on browns to blues, but I mostly type code, hotkeys and shell commands, so ymmw. I haven't tried reds but I think I might like them even more than browns. I keep bottoming out on all switches anyway.

[Kamikaze K]

Twitch, did you manage to check out the CM Storm Quickfire's?  Or am I right that you need the numpad?

[Twitch]

Twitch, did you manage to check out the CM Storm Quickfire's?  Or am I right that you need the numpad?

I would prefer one with the numpad. While I very rarely use it, I've found it useful for macroing things that aren't very important but still need a hotkey. Space also isn't much of any issue with a full keyboard. Plus, I can't seem to find any brown/red Quickfires in Australia. Only finding ones with black/blue switches.

If anyone has any other suggestions let me know, otherwise from what you guys have suggested I'll probably go with the Leopold FC500R Brown or Red.

[TheProfosist]

I would prefer one with the numpad. While I very rarely use it, I've found it useful for macroing things that aren't very important but still need a hotkey. Plus, I can't seem to find any brown/red Quickfires in Australia. Only finding ones with black/blue switches.

If anyone has any other suggestions let me know, otherwise from what you guys have suggested I'll probably go with the Leopold FC500R Brown or Red.

Rosewill is a tank just got min today. Though youll need to put some work into it to have it feel as smooth as a WASD. I would also recommended a right angle usb cable for the Rosewill as the port is not recessed.

[Kamikaze K]

Plus, I can't seem to find any brown/red Quickfires in Australia. Only finding ones with black/blue switches.

 I managed to ask PCCG about that and they've told me that they are expecting stock of the Quickfire Red's at the end of this month so hopefully by the end of the month or early Nov. Will be ordering one of those considering the price for what is essentially a Costar/Filco TKL.  Will be my first Red 'board.  Asthetically it looks quite nice... Black frame instead of silver with red back plate to go with the Cherry Red's...

  As for the Numpad, I used it very rarely also.   I thought I would miss it too and to an extent I did (I got over it and adjusted pretty quickly) but the gaming position and comfort I found in having a TKL outweighed it by a lot.  Now I with the Ducky Shine, I wished they came out with a TKL at launch... Would've gotten that one.

[suprsmo]

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/products/1838/

for filco requirements..

I have both a leo and a filco, both TKL.

leo with browns.. filco wth blues. love them both.. for different reasons..

filcos have nicer finishing touches.. but leo's are seriously good bang for buck.

do yourself a favour, and choose a tenkeyless, after a week.. unless you are a supreme data entry master, you WILL not miss it!

[oneproduct]

Sounds like crazy talk to me.   My next keyboard dedicated for heavy typing will be red switches, unless I go for maybe clears (uh, unless there's a really good deal on something else).
Everyone loves reds except people with giant hamhock fingers.  I know this for a fact.

I've got reds, blues and browns and reds are probably my least favorite for typing. I like the feel of the browns the most but I type better on the blues. If I had to say why it's because of the blues being heavier, which slows me down a bit, which causes me to make less typos, which gives a net gain in speed. It's funny because when I type on blues I feel like I'm going so slow but I actually end up faster in the end.

For the reds, the lack of tactility just feels odd to me. I've used them for gaming just slightly (since a Kinesis isn't that great for gaming and I don't game much anyways) and I could see why they could be fun for that, but I wouldn't recommend them for typing personally. Of course lots of people who got into reds recently say otherwise but I'd just like to show that there are some people who think that red = not for typing, like his research showed (that's what the OC wiki says about reds).

I want to say that I think that typically most people here don't do nearly as much typing as they think they do though. I'm in computer science so I do some programming but I also do transcribing for the deaf as a part time job. The amount of typing I do when coding is nothing compared to transcribing a person's speech for more than an hour. So from my experiences with heavy duty typing I don't find reds that good.

Also, for the record, I'm a very small guy, 125lbs with pretty small hands, about the same size as a girl's, so it's not just people with giant hamhock fingers.