Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards.

[NamelessPFG]

I can game on rubber domes, but that doesn't mean I prefer it that way.

The thing I like about mechanical keyswitches is that I can feel exactly when a key actuated and released without having to rely on feedback from the game itself. It gives me confidence that the input device is doing exactly what I want it to do. Yes, this means I strongly dislike linear switches, even for FPS gaming. For me, the ideal is the IBM buckling spring or Cherry MX Clear.

I'm currently on a Cherry MX Blue-based board, partially due to the general lack of Clear-based boards, but also to familiarize myself more greatly with such boards in general. The higher release point is far from ideal, but I have to have that tactility, and it's not as much of a problem when I have a habit of releasing keys entirely before depressing them again. I don't like Browns because they're too close to linear, which leaves the much rarer Clears.

[Autolyze]

I feel a little dirty posting in this thread, but...

I remember when people used to play games for "fun" and entertainment. If anyone still did that, I'd argue that using a mechanical keyboard would add to one's enjoyment of the experience. I find that having to use a rubber dome keyboard for any purpose is downright unpleasant now.

Anyone playing games "professionally" isn't going to have a problem with accidental keypresses on a light switch, or fatigue from bottoming out. They would be able to take advantage of the increased feedback of a mechanical keyboard and the added subtlety of being able to do things like ride the actuation point though.

Save up your allowance money and just grab a mechanical keyboard already.

[Slux]

Here's how it works (and I'm pretty sure this has been said before a few times)....

Do some research into what sort of switch might be of interest to you.  I *liked* my rubber domes, but they always ended up getting uneven key feel or the sliders started to bind and it didn't take long.  I decided on browns because I didn't like the noise of blues and wanted a tactile feel.  Clears were not readily obtainable in a new board at the time and not at all available in the form factor I decided on (87-key).  If you love RD, clear might be just what you're looking for.  Coming off of browns I think they're a little too heavy but very similar to RD without the whole bottoming out thing.

Get a keyboard with that switch type and use it for a few weeks.  Preferably as the only KB you use for everything.  Then try your old rubber dome.  I can't stand the exact same RD KB I really liked just before getting my mech KB.

From what I understand clears feel heavier than blacks due to the tactility and will cause fatigue. I said before that the lighter switches will induce mistakes. I didn't say I loved rubberdomes, I'm just pointing out that they will perform better due to it's characteristics.

[Slux]

I feel a little dirty posting in this thread, but...

I remember when people used to play games for "fun" and entertainment. If anyone still did that, I'd argue that using a mechanical keyboard would add to one's enjoyment of the experience. I find that having to use a rubber dome keyboard for any purpose is downright unpleasant now.

Anyone playing games "professionally" isn't going to have a problem with accidental keypresses on a light switch, or fatigue from bottoming out. They would be able to take advantage of the increased feedback of a mechanical keyboard and the added subtlety of being able to do things like ride the actuation point though.

Save up your allowance money and just grab a mechanical keyboard already.

Everyone makes mistakes regardless if they are professional or not. Some people play professionally because they enjoy it and think it's a lot more entertaining to play at a high level. The feedback it produces is negligible when you bottom out and are tapping repeatedly at fast speeds.

[alaricljs]

Maybe clears are heavier than blacks if you take the full stroke into account, and it's the spring, not the tactility.  If I recall correctly, clears are not heavier than blacks until after the actuation point.  Makes the tactile/actuation point pretty much as far as I feel like going.  Also, my clears are not as fatiguing or heavy as my rubber domes.

[alaricljs]

The feedback it produces is negligible when you bottom out and are tapping repeatedly at fast speeds.

He already addressed that argument with the sentence immediately following the part you are refuting:

They would be able to take advantage of the increased feedback of a mechanical keyboard and the added subtlety of being able to do things like ride the actuation point though.

Again you want to argue and not listen.

[Slux]

He already addressed that argument with the sentence immediately following the part you are refuting:




Again you want to argue and not listen.

You are talking about the subtlety of riding the actuation point? The post was referring to the negligible feedback you produce when you tap very fast and bottom out. Riding the actuation point is irrelevant like I said due to the fact that the light switches induce accidental key presses and the heavy switches produce fatigue. That's why I'm saying the rubberdome is the perfect middle ground for this.

[alaricljs]

You are talking about the subtlety of riding the actuation point? The post was referring to the negligible feedback you produce when you tap very fast and bottom out. Riding the actuation point is irrelevant like I said due to the fact that the light switches induce accidental key presses and the heavy switches produce fatigue. That's why I'm saying the rubberdome is the perfect middle ground for this.

Riding the actuation point is a replacement for tapping (and bottoming) really fast.  It has nothing to do with the lightness of the switch.  And again, as a user of a keyboard you get familiar with the weight of the keys and accidents stop happening.  As for 'and the heavy switches produce fatigue'  most RD boards are classically in the heaviest class of switches, they are NOT the middle ground.

[Slux]

Riding the actuation point is a replacement for tapping (and bottoming) really fast.  It has nothing to do with the lightness of the switch.  And again, as a user of a keyboard you get familiar with the weight of the keys and accidents stop happening.  As for 'and the heavy switches produce fatigue'  most RD boards are classically in the heaviest class of switches, they are NOT the middle ground.

They are heavy at the beginning and then completely depress and the weight is gone unlike blacks where it is heavy all the way through. The majority of professional players bottom out to ensure it has been pressed because no mistakes can be made. You will get accustomed and mistake wont happen as often but it still doesn't change the fact that a heavier switch will induce less mistakes than a lighter one.

[alaricljs]

You're going in circles.

[Slux]

You're going in circles.

Feel free to sum up the circle that you think is happening because I've clearly pointed out the reasoning and you won't accept it.

[alaricljs]

heavy switches produce fatigue.

a heavier switch will induce less mistakes than a lighter one.

There's one....

Here's another:

light switches induce accidental key presses

Myself and others have pointed out that you get used to the switch feel and acciidents stop happening... you've ignored this, yet you say this in reference to heavier switches (aka rubber domes):

You will get accustomed and mistake wont happen as often

You also claim this:

They are heavy at the beginning and then completely depress and the weight is gone

Which may be true for YOUR rubber dome today.  But is not true of all rubber domes and definitely not true of rubber domes over time.  One of my RDs exhibits a tiny lessening of weight when the dome collapses, the other is so god awful stiff through the entire keypress that it's only used in emergencies.

[alaricljs]

I'm wondering when he'll run out of steam... I get paid to sit at a KB all day long regardless of what I'm doing.

[Slux]

I said heavy switches will produce fatigue but the rubberdome is like a hybrid of a heavy and a light switch due to the high pressure point and the decrease downwards. Mistakes wont happen as often once you are accustomed to them but like I said once again, they will happen more often with a lighter switch than a heavier switch. The degenerating rubberdome you have is because you have a low quality rubberdome keyboard and if you had something that actually in the same league quality wise as a mechanical, this would not be a problem. There are rubberdomes that have good enough quality that they wont experience the problems that you have.

[Slux]

same, but really... it's clear that he's unwilling to take what's been provided and revisit his 'theory', we've already proven that his opinion is flawed due to lack of reasonable experience.


--edit--
you know, now that i think about it, the OP should really be grateful that we've taken the time to walk him through the process that he's clearly ****ed up.  most other forums would have found pictures of him picking his nose in primary school and photoshoped his head onto a lama or something by now.

I am grateful but you have yet to give me any good reasons on why I am wrong.

[duncan]

Here let me fix this for you.

I do, and will continue to, refuse to accept, or even meaningfully acknowledge, any of the good reasons you have or will give me on why I may, possibly, be wrong.

How you managed to drag 130+ postings out of this when is was clear on page one you were never going to listen with anything approaching an open mind to anything said is a tribute to the patience of the members of GH.

I don't care about your point. The factual errors in your statements are blatant to anyone reading with open eyes. The bits that are simply your opinion are just that, your opinion.

The amusing stuff is in the stuff like the invention of fake knowledge of the preferences of 'most professional gamers' and the details of the reasons for those imagined preferences. Such desperate tactics are obvious to everyone and if you think you are doing anymore than providing light entertainment in your desperate efforts to avoid accepting that your original point was weak and your attempts to defend it, pathetic, then you are deeply mistaken.

Please do keep going. Yours could well end up being one of the textbook exercises in how not to make and defend an argument.

[Slux]

Here let me fix this for you.



How you managed to drag 130+ postings out of this when is was clear on page one you were never going to listen with anything approaching an open mind to anything said is a tribute to the patience of the members of GH.

I don't care about your point. The factual errors in your statements are blatant to anyone reading with open eyes. The bits that are simply your opinion are just that, your opinion.

The amusing stuff is in the stuff like the invention of fake knowledge of the preferences of 'most professional gamers' and the details of the reasons for those imagined preferences. Such desperate tactics are obvious to everyone and if you think you are doing anymore than providing light entertainment in your desperate efforts to avoid accepting that your original point was weak and your attempts to defend it, pathetic, then you are deeply mistaken.

Please do keep going. Yours could well end up being one of the textbook exercises in how not to make and defend an argument.

"I don't care about your point", that's all I needed to see.

[Slux]

really?

seriously?

i'm curious how you're even capable of replying to these posts... you're clearly blind.

Please show me the light if you feel you have some how proven that your reasoning is better than mine.

[SadButTrue]

I don't touch type, but still manage 80-100wpm by bottoming out with what most here would consider excessive force I'm also a die hard fps gamer and don't experience any of these so-called mistakes caused by mechanical keyboards. While on a rubberdome your fingers would rest on the wasd cluster without causing a keypress, even the Cherry Red can be rested on without actuating. In fact, I find the need to be less heavy handed makes circle strafing* more precise. I also find the high initial force of rubberdomes introduce a minor delay in movement. I've been pedantic enough to measure this in a custom game mod.

*quickly alternating between the wasd keys to dance around and avoid getting hit

[didjamatic]

I don't touch type, but still manage 80-100wpm

If you can't touch type how can you possibly manage that speed?  Is the word you're typing "a"?  

[alaricljs]

If you can't touch type how can you possibly manage that speed?  Is the word you're typing "a"?  

I'm thinking it's that confusion about what touch typing means... SadButTrue, touch typing means not looking.  It does not mean putting your fingers where that damned typing teacher insists they need to be.  I don't even know if that technique has a name, but it's not touch typing.

[SadButTrue]

Years of experience I use all of my fingers, they simply don't sit on the home row.

[SadButTrue]

Years of experience I use all of my fingers, they simply don't sit on the home row.

I'm thinking it's that confusion about what touch typing means... SadButTrue, touch typing means not looking.  It does not mean putting your fingers where that damned typing teacher insists they need to be.  I don't even know if that technique has a name, but it's not touch typing.

I may look every 10 seconds or so to keep my rythmn going.

[Slux]

i think you've glazed over quite a few posts in this thread.  why don't you go re-read them.  it's not just my proving that your reasoning is totally unsound, but EVERYONE in this thread is telling how and why you've approached this incorrectly.

I re-read it and I didn't glaze over any posts, I took them into consideration, pointed out the compromises they make for those reasons and how they aren't worth it and then further validated my reasoning to justify why rubberdomes are better for gaming. I suggest you stop glazing over my posts and stop being so heavily biased.

[Pretendo]

I re-read it and I didn't glaze over any posts, I took them into consideration, pointed out the compromises they make for those reasons and how they aren't worth it and then further validated my reasoning to justify why rubberdomes are better for gaming. I suggest you stop glazing over my posts and stop being so heavily biased.

I know I said that I was done posting here, but you're absolutely right!  We just needed a visionary to tell us about the advantages of bottoming out on a keyboard!  A visionary like YOU, sir.  We've all been biased fools, there's no denying it.  I will now ceremoniously take all of my mechanical keyboards and toss them into the trash.  Rubber domes forever!

I apologize for doubting you, and the I'm sure geekhack community apologizes as well.  You're free to leave the site now.  Your work is done.

[alaricljs]

I am the trash... send them my way.

[Slux]

we're saying that you don't have a valid amount of experience to be able to discount ANY of what's posted in this thread.  you can't possibly know better than someone that's actually doing any amount of gaming on both RD and mechanical keyboards, much less USED a mechanical keyboard for more than an hour.

period.

as far as being heavily biased... my ONLY position here is that it's subjective, and that it's different for every person.  well, that, and that you're wrong.

The experience is irrelevant because the fact is, the majority if not all the things that I have said are true and the only debate happening right now is who can be the most biased and ignorant. Thanks for further justifying my reasoning and not proving why I am wrong other than your broad, unintelligent, childish attempts to justify your purchase.

[Slux]

I know I said that I was done posting here, but you're absolutely right!  We just needed a visionary to tell us about the advantages of bottoming out on a keyboard!  A visionary like YOU, sir.  We've all been biased fools, there's no denying it.  I will now ceremoniously take all of my mechanical keyboards and toss them into the trash.  Rubber domes forever!

I apologize for doubting you, and the I'm sure geekhack community apologizes as well.  You're free to leave the site now.  Your work is done.

Please don't speak on the topic if you have nothing to contribute.

[N8N]

They are heavy at the beginning and then completely depress and the weight is gone unlike blacks where it is heavy all the way through. The majority of professional players bottom out to ensure it has been pressed because no mistakes can be made. You will get accustomed and mistake wont happen as often but it still doesn't change the fact that a heavier switch will induce less mistakes than a lighter one.

If that were an advantage then all the professional gamers should be going nuts for Alps.  Heavy at the top, then fall off dramatically once you pass the tactile point.

I'm not saying that people may not *prefer* Alps - I'm not one of them though.  But I'm not aware of a whole lot of gamers going for them.

[Pretendo]

Please don't speak on the topic if you have nothing to contribute.

If you read my post, you'd see that I'm agreeing with you.  Everyone on this site is biased about rubber domes ability to bottom out!  You are the only one that's right!

[alaricljs]

aaaah... Rainy Sunday afternoons...

[Slux]

Stop the ****ing bus.  According to who?  and for who?  They're certainly not true for me.  Just because you might like to take it up the ass on rainy Sunday afternoons doesn't mean I like to.  That's what subjective means.  it is NOT fact, it is NOT absolute.

as for being biased and ignorant, that flatly defines your position.  my position is that the only bias is a personal one.

It's just a simple fact that what I said was true. I must of struck a nerve so considering your emotional state, you will once again be to heavily biased towards your beloved keyboard that it will be impossible to convince you otherwise. I proved why it was true. Feel free to respond to this with another one of your ignorant statements.

[Slux]

If you read my post, you'd see that I'm agreeing with you.  Everyone on this site is biased about rubber domes ability to bottom out!  You are the only one that's right!

The problem with your post is that you really didn't contribute anything, you didn't actually add anything to the topic other than what we already know.

[Pretendo]

The problem with your post is that you really didn't contribute anything, you didn't actually add anything to the topic other than what we already know.

My apologies.  You did forget to mention that most rubber domes have pad printing.  This raised surface allows for better friction between the finger and the key than any mechanical keyboard with double shots.  That's +2.

[alaricljs]

It's just a simple fact that what I said was true.

Wow... fact as in pi=3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459..... or fact as in deep fried breaded squid tentacle is the most awesome snack food ever?  Or fact as in... you truly are a troll?

...so considering my emotional state, I will once again be so heavily biased towards my beloved keyboard that it will be impossible to convince me otherwise.

Fixed that for ya....

I argued why it was true, and am unwilling to accept any of your arguments at all, no matter how sound the basis

Fixed that too.

I will feel free to respond with another of my ignorant statements.

More fixing....

[itlnstln]

Wow.

I don't know what's worse.  The troll itself or the feeding thereof.

Good luck.

[alaricljs]

My apologies.  You did forget to mention that most rubber domes have pad printing.  This raised surface allows for better friction between the finger and the key than any mechanical keyboard with double shots.  That's +2.

I like my frictiony surfaced PBTs  

[alaricljs]

Wow.

I don't know what's worse.  The troll itself or the feeding thereof.

Good luck.

In it for the lulz.

[Slux]

okay.



the nerve you struck was one of assumption.  you ASSUME what you're spouting off is fact.  it is not.  as such, it is not true.  as a result, all of the **** you've spewed all over our beloved forum is garbage.  this has nothing to do with keyboards anymore.  the keyboard is irrelevant, the only point to be made here is that you have absolutely no evidence or experience to validate your theory.  your theory is fatally flawed in that you assume there is an absolute 'best' or 'better' keyboard for any one task, when in fact, every person has different ergonomics, and that what might be optimal for you is not for me.

refute that.

Prove me wrong. I've completely solidified my argument as a fact and you have yet to prove why I am wrong.

[Slux]

i get that... but i'm getting paid to amuse myself, and i got caught up on work earlier this morning.  in short, i've got nothing better to do right now

I'm quite amused by your ignorance and bias opinions myself.

[Pretendo]

I like my frictiony surfaced PBTs  

You're missing out, man.

Sluxy's words hurt, but only because they make such a sharp point.

[alaricljs]

Prove me wrong. I've completely solidified my argument as a fact and you have yet to prove why I am wrong.

You what?  I'm on the clock and all so I can't partake... but I expect to be passed some of that **** when I clock out.  It must be particularly heavy ****.

[peda]

Wow.

I don't know what's worse.  The troll itself or the feeding thereof.

Good luck.

Rarely seen such a fat troll...

[Slux]

Rarely seen such a fat troll...

Show Image

Don't post in the topic if you have nothing to contribute.

[Slux]

Hahahahaha.  I'm staying out of taking sides on this one but applaud your willingness to debate the point.

Groupthink is a terrible thing.  
[video=youtube;Vkw2DdoskPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkw2DdoskPY&feature=fvw[/video]

See The McRip Effect for more examples.

I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.

[Slux]

hmm... must have missed that.  did you get published somewhere in the last two days?  as far as i can tell, the only fact in this thread is that i'm acting like an *******, and you're an idiot.  oh, and that you can't prove what isn't fact.  that, and there's certainly nothing anywhere near evidence in this thread to prove your point, anywhere.  the only evidence in this thread validates me being an ******* and you being an idiot.

that's the beauty of a subjective argument.  what's right for me CAN be wrong for you.  however, the fact that you ARE wrong is not subjective.  you're allowed to prefer domes are better for gaming, that's okay.

Once again, you haven't proven why I am wrong..

[alaricljs]

I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.

Still clueless, and not just about keyboards and opinions.

Once again, you haven't proven why I am wrong..

You haven't proved yourself right, so I guess it doesn't matter.

[litster]

I admire Slugx's persistence.  My advice: repeatedly saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.  In fact, that's what crazy people do.  Hum, now I pity Slutx.  

Alright, visitation period is over!

[Slux]

I admire Slugx's persistence.  My advice: repeatedly saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.  In fact, that's what crazy people do.  Hum, now I pity Slutx.  

Alright, visitation period is over!

I proved why my reasons are right and why their reasons are wrong.

[Pretendo]

I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.

Hey yeah, let's get him!  You hold him down, and I'll beat him with this Model M.

Won't be needing it to type anymore, after all.