Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)

[riffautae]

Thanks for all the information guys and thanks for posting the code.

Looking around, the black filco with brown keys seems to be unavailable on amazon ATM. The PLU is on ebay but has very expensive shipping from china.

I might get the white one from amazon. To be sure I am getting the right one, the pcb was designed round the filco Majestouch-2 right?

[litster]

Both Majestouch1 and Majestouch2 have the same cases and PCB/plate shape.  Either would be fine.  But I would get a MJ2.  TheProfosist has a deal with qtan for a good price for PLU.  Check with qtan.

[TheProfosist]

Thanks for all the information guys and thanks for posting the code.

Looking around, the black filco with brown keys seems to be unavailable on amazon ATM. The PLU is on ebay but has very expensive shipping from china.

I might get the white one from amazon. To be sure I am getting the right one, the pcb was designed round the filco Majestouch-2 right?

I ordered directly from qtan got a board for 68$ i think shipping was $10

[riffautae]

Awesome thanks, placed my order with a few browns to go with the ones on the PLU.

I looked at the code last night. It seems pretty clean and easy to understand.
I plan on adding support for switching between layouts and the ability to have multiple layers via Fn key.  http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:14618 has this plus more already so I might try to adapt some of that.

[TheProfosist]

Awesome thanks, placed my order with a few browns to go with the ones on the PLU.

I looked at the code last night. It seems pretty clean and easy to understand.
I plan on adding support for switching between layouts and the ability to have multiple layers via Fn key.  http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:14618 has this plus more already so I might try to adapt some of that.

That would be great if you could do that as I need those functions as well the firmware from the DOX is already capable of everything that I am looking for I just dont know how to implement it on the Phantom.

[scrubadub]

I'm thinking of getting in on this deal to force me to learn how to solder (among other reasons none of which have to do with a keyboard addiction). But looking at the ANSI layout, I am wondering how hard is it to find 1.5x keys? The only Cherry sets I've seen for sale recently have the 1.25x keys.

[litster]

If you don't have 1.5x modifiers but you have 1.25x modifiers, get the PHANSI125 plate.  If you do have 1.5x modifiers, get the PHANSI50 plate.

[TheProfosist]

If you don't have 1.5x modifiers but you have 1.25x modifiers, get the PHANSI125 plate.  If you do have 1.5x modifiers, get the PHANSI50 plate.

according to the OP that is supposed to be PHANSI for 1.5 and PHANSIWIN for 1.25

[dorkvader]

I'm thinking of getting in on this deal to force me to learn how to solder (among other reasons none of which have to do with a keyboard addiction). But looking at the ANSI layout, I am wondering how hard is it to find 1.5x keys? The only Cherry sets I've seen for sale recently have the 1.25x keys.

I'm pretty sure WASDkeyboards can help you out with that. Also, I think the keys on winkeyless boards are usually about that size, though I don't know any specifics. "tab" and "shift"(right) on my WYSE boards look about right, though.

This is a pretty good project to start on (better than my first was: what a nightmare!) it's all through hole. Don't burn anything!

[TheProfosist]

I'm pretty sure WASDkeyboards can help you out with that. Also, I think the keys on winkeyless boards are usually about that size, though I don't know any specifics. "tab" and "shift"(right) on my WYSE boards look about right, though.

This is a pretty good project to start on (better than my first was: what a nightmare!) it's all through hole. Don't burn anything!

WASD cant get a hold of R1 1.50x keys thats why my layout is modified a bit from 7bits in the area of keycap sizes.

[scrubadub]

If you don't have 1.5x modifiers but you have 1.25x modifiers, get the PHANSI125 plate.  If you do have 1.5x modifiers, get the PHANSI50 plate.

Ahh, but I really want to be part of the cool kids club! ;-) My current set of doubleshots have the 1.25x keys as do the next ones that are incoming. However, I would actually prefer to have 1.5x keys instead. I'm pretty new to this whole thing and still learning about keys, so I just wanted to make sure I don't order the PHANSI plate then find out that the 1.5x are as hard to come by as, say the Cherry red Esc. I'm sure they are not, I'm just figuring out where to look.

For example, it looks like most Cherry terminal keyboards had 1.5x modifiers right (like the G80-2551HAD)?

[litster]

Most G80 or G81 Cherry keyboards without the Windows keys have 1.5x modifiers.   Ascaii might still have some beige Cherry double shots left.  I think someone is also doing a black Cherry double shot group buy.  Also, 7bit's group buy 4 has 1.5x modifiers in some keys.  You just need to find out which sets have 1.5x modifiers.  Check out his wiki on deskthority.net for more info, or ask on the group buy 4 thread.  Good luck.

[litster]

I highly doubt that it will have 1.5x modifiers.  Modern keyboards all have 2 windows keys and an app menu key.  There is no room for 1.5x modifiers unless your spacebar is super short.  And making it 1.5x modifier would just make their keycaps incompatible with most, if not all, of the new modern keyboards out there.

[dorkvader]

I highly doubt that it will have 1.5x modifiers.  Modern keyboards all have 2 windows keys and an app menu key.  There is no room for 1.5x modifiers unless your spacebar is super short.

Unicomp has (what looks like) 1.5 control keys, and 1.25 win, app, alt for a really short space bar.

[TheProfosist]

my 87UB 45g has 1.5x ctrl and alt but 1x Win and Menu

[bpiphany]

The Realforces (and others?) use a different setup for the spacebar row than the Filcos
1.50 1.00 1.50 6.00 1.50 1.00 1.00 1.50 instead of
1.25 1.25 1.25 6.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25
The Phantom PCB is designed to house the Realforce spacebar row setup as well as the different setups used on common Cherry switch boards.

[Findecanor]

The Phantom PCB is designed to house the Realforce spacebar row setup as well as the different setups used on common Cherry switch boards.

I really appreciate that you did that. Unfortunately, the plates do not support it.
I don't think that modifying it for the switch positions will be a problem, but i am afraid that the 6-unit space bar's right stabilizer won't sit properly because the new hole would be a larger version of an existing hole. I have looked at instead using PCB-mounted stabilizers for the space bar, but there are leads on the PCB where I would drill those holes.

the PBT DyeSub keys are attractive to guys who are currently using DS keys on the OTD custom boards, i'm sure they'd still quite a few sets to those guys if they made 1.5x keys available.

Unfortunately, Cherry's dye-sub keys from the bottom row of a G80-3000 have a higher profile than the bottom row of winkeyful beige/grey G80-1800. This means that there are no matching Windows keys for the dye-sub Ctrl and Alt keys to use on the Phantom.

Edit: WHOA!! I posted my 1313:th posts on Friday the 13th ...

[dorkvader]

This is why IBM had the best idea of same-profile keys on a curved plate.Then you get the profile just fine, and it's super simple to swap keys around.

[tsangan]

Their 2 piece keycaps are amazing also

[RiGS]

why do you guys have to keep killing my dreams?!  i just want thick PBT dyesubs to mirror the 86U layout. :cry:

in all reality, i'd have to use a blank for the bottom row.  the only crappy part is the only key that matches that profile at 1x is the ./del key from the numpad. /sigh/

You can use the arrow keys as well.

[bpiphany]

I really appreciate that you did that. Unfortunately, the plates do not support it.

No, I don't know how popular it would have been and we don't want more alternatives than there already are. I can of course make a DXF file for any setup you want, and you can have it made yourself. That goes for all of you guys, tell me your plate preferences and I can set you up with the drawing.

[TheProfosist]

No, I don't know how popular it would have been and we don't want more alternatives than there already are. I can of course make a DXF file for any setup you want, and you can have it made yourself. That goes for all of you guys, tell me your plate preferences and I can set you up with the drawing.

Yea thanks for making my plate for me that non standard left shift on the 7bit layout just didnt jive with me.

[bpiphany]

Here is a little video to explain what PWM is all about.

The output on the selected pin is high only during a certain percentage of the time (the duty cycle). This is all done in hardware separate from the actual CPU kernel. So no processor cycles are used to achieve the on and off the LED. The image isn't super clear but the frequency is 62.5kHz, the duty cycle of the blue channel is 50%, and the yellow channel varies between 0% and 100%.

[Findecanor]

I can of course make a DXF file for any setup you want, and you can have it made yourself.

I have already modified the drawing that you posted a while back. That is how I discovered the issue.
I think that having a one-off commissioned would cost more than I would be willing to spend for this keyboard. I think that it would be easier for me to just cut a plastic insert out of plexi to fill the hole next to the right stabilizer mount. I could cast copies in polyurethane resin if there is interest.

Hmm.. I wonder if the plate from a (broken) Xarmor /  QPad keyboard would fit ... It seems to have the right layout for the bottom row, but I dunno about the spacing between key groups. Of course it needs to be cut to size, but I don't see that any other mods would be needed.

Anyway, have you decided which type of stabilizers to use?

[litster]

Time permitting, this weekend I will change out the Cherry stabilizers on the prototype with new Costar stabilizers I received from WASDKeyboards.com yesterday.  

Meanwhile, BiNiaRiS received a test plate from a new shop he found.  This plate was lasercut, not watercut.  The result is better.  BiNiaRiS need to check with the shop next week as he has a few questions for them.

[riffautae]

Hey guys I uploaded a preliminary version of tmk's code that supports the phantom keyboard: https://github.com/riffautae/tmk_keyboard

This compiles on my machine however its otherwise untested, if it burns down your house don't blame me

It is set up for NKRO and has one layer with a qwerty layout.

[litster]

Hey guys I uploaded a preliminary version of tmk's code that supports the phantom keyboard: https://github.com/riffautae/tmk_keyboard

This compiles on my machine however its otherwise untested, if it burns down your house don't blame me

It is set up for NKRO and has one layer with a qwerty layout.

Sweet!  Does it support BIOS boot as well?  I can load it up on to the Phantom to test it out.  The prototype is being taken apart to install new Costar stabilizers :-)

[riffautae]

I think so, AFAIK the 'boot protocol' means it sends Usage Page 7 for the main keys and doesn't do anything weird in the descriptors; and I think it does that.

EDIT: It uses a modified version of the PJRC example keyboard driver which does support it, so the chances are pretty good.

[litster]

Holy smokes!  I am typing on Costar stabilizers!

[holding down Shift]THE SHIFT KEYS DON"T STICK NO MOAR!!"[/holding down Shift]

It has to be pretty precisely installed though.  All wide keys work.  There is a little bit of a problem with PBT right shift (dye sub or laser), but no problem with regular double shots or SP's double shots.  I have the same problem with PBT right shift keycaps on regular Filcos, so this is not unique to the Phantom design.  I suspect that the PBT keycaps are a little bit too thick and it rubs against the bent up portion of Costar's stabilizer bar.  

I will usage test this setup for a little while before making a call.

[tsangan]

The Phantom can support either right? So even if you decide on the Cherry stabilizer or the the Costar, the person building the board can technically use whichever or am I missing something?

[litster]

You missed my post from a week ago.  

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23572-Phantom-Custom-Keyboard-Group-Buy-(Order-Only)&p=485235&viewfull=1#post485235

[riffautae]

Holy smokes! other stuff

Mean! You got my hopes up for a second that my code worked first try

[litster]

Mean! You got my hopes up for a second that my code worked first try

I just downloaded the code, built it, and downloaded to the Teensy, but it doesn't work.  I might have done something wrong.  I went here:  https://github.com/riffautae/tmk_keyboard/downloads

And downloaded the whole zip file, unzipped it to a folder, change directory to ..\phantom and typed "make".  It built.  But the resulting HEX file doesn't do anything except it installed like 7 drivers in Windows 7.

[riffautae]

DId you use the loader to upload to the device? http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/loader.html

Or do you mean after upload it just installed drivers?

[litster]

Yes, of course I used the loader to upload the new firmware build to the device  

I loaded your version of the firmware, the Teensy rebooted, when it came back Win7 loaded a bunch of USB drivers.  Then the keyboard doesn't do anything.  I have since reverted back to PrinsValium's firmware and the keyboard is working again.

[riffautae]

ok I figured you knew what you were doing, just wanted to be sure. Hope I didn't insult you

I figured it wouldn't work the first time, I'll have to wait till I get a board to debug it. Thanks for trying it.

[litster]

No problem at all.  I was hoping that it would work, too.  We will try again later.

[Findecanor]

There is a little bit of a problem with PBT right shift (dye sub or laser), but no problem with regular double shots or SP's double shots.

I suppose that the Costar stabilizer bar has to go on the side of the switch where the logo isn't..
Do you have the same problem if you reverse the key cap to point the other way, I.e up-side down?
If that works, then perhaps the stabilized switches should be rotated, so that a Costar stabilizer bar could go on the other side. I hope that it isn't too late to revise the PCB design ...

[litster]

I suppose that the Costar stabilizer bar has to go on the side of the switch where the logo isn't..
Do you have the same problem if you reverse the key cap to point the other way, I.e up-side down?
If that works, then perhaps the stabilized switches should be rotated, so that a Costar stabilizer bar could go on the other side. I hope that it isn't too late to revise the PCB design ...

I don't understand why we would rotate the switch or stabilizers to make it work for PBT keycaps.

EDIT: Let me re-state.  Why would we rotate the switch or stabilizers to make Costar stabilizers work with Cherry PBT right shift keycap?

[bpiphany]

I like how you talk to eachother both at GH and DT at the same time on different Phantom topics.,, =)

The switches are rotated the way they need to be for the Costar stabilizers to have a chance to work properly. Cherry stabilizers don't care which way the switch is rotated, with Costars it is essential. I and the solutor had a beef about this a while back. I'm not sure anymore if we just didn't understand each other or what, but I was correct, switch orientation matters highly with Costar stabilizers. The stabilizer has to be on the side of the switch where the LED holes are. That is why ISO enter (and numpad vertical keys) have their switches rotated by 90". Switch mounted LEDs also aren't compatible with Costar stabilizers.

[TheProfosist]

I have seen and used costar stabilized boards that have LEDs.

[litster]

I have seen and used costar stabilized boards that have LEDs.

Do you have pictures to show how costar stabilizer goes over the LED that is soldered onto the Cherry switch?

[bpiphany]

Here it is in all its gory glory, read and be amazed.

[TheProfosist]

Do you have pictures to show how costar stabilizer goes over the LED that is soldered onto the Cherry switch?

Sadly I do not. You would have to get a hold of someone with a mionix doesnt the razer black widow use coastar-esk stabilizers also?

[litster]

Hum, the solutor's last post on that thread didn't rebut your evident, just picked on other things you said about him.  So he kind of admitted that he was wrong, but didn't say it :-).

Whether switch orientation is a problem or not.  This is what I know:

• Filco (with Costar stabilizers) has the same incompatibility with the thicker Cherry PBT right shift keycap.  This is not unique to Phantom.
• In Costar configuration, the Costar stabilizers locations on the Phantom plate is the same as in Filco.
• the plate design as it is now works with both Cherry stabilizers and Costar stabilizers.
• Cherry stabilizers work with keycaps from SP (thin), Cherry double shots (thick), and PBT right shift keycap (thicker).  I should try Filco's right shift keycap for completeness sake, but I am sure it will work as they are thin and its profile has more room under the keycap.
• Most people do not have dye sub PBT keys because they are rare and very expensive.
• Most people do not use laser PBT keys because of low contrast.
• Most people do not have PBT green dye sub right shift from an RGB set.
• If you must use thick PBT right shift, you can use Cherry stabilizers instead of Costar stabilizers, possible with Phantom, not possible with anything else.

The first point alone would be enough to conclude there isn't a problem.  Even if rotating the stabilizer is a solution, I don't see any reason why we would go through the trouble and cost to change the plate and/or PCB design to only make PBT right shift keycap work with Costar stabilizers.  And doing such a change might actually break compatibility without keycaps.

[TheProfosist]

Sounds good glad that its compatible with both.

[riffautae]

I just uploaded a new version of the code.

I went through and thought about what the port related bit operations and such should be doing [before I just copy pasted some of that] and I fixed some things. I had some of the select/unselect operations reversed.

I also added some debug output so if you run http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/hid_listen.html and reboot the teensy you might get some output.

Is there a schematic for the pcb? I can make sure my assumptions are correct if I have that.

[bpiphany]

I think you should be able to open this schematics file in KiCAD. It might provide enough information even if the components don't show up..

[tsangan]

Hmmm so I'm happy that Costar stabilizers work with Cherry RGB set but kind of sad that when I get my hands on a dyesub set I can't use it with these stabilizers.

litster, after you tried both do you prefer the Costar a lot more compared to the Cherry?

[litster]

Cherry and Costar both feel similar to me.  Green right shift PBT dye sub key kinda works.  It just doesn't bottoms out.  I am still using it on the prototype right now.