Author Topic: Most solid board for MX Cherries  (Read 6319 times)

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Offline keyjay

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Most solid board for MX Cherries
« on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 04:53:00 »
After an irresponsibly huge amount of time researching this forum and elsewhere, I picked up a Leopold full-sized with Browns from EK and loved it... almost...

The ringing/pinging got to me right away. I bought a second one to see if it would be better and it wasn't. I was told this is just how they are, and that it's entirely hit-or-miss.

The ringing or pinging is just at "some select locations only" but there are a few of them and it covers over a dozen keys.

I noticed in a recent thread that at least one poster felt that Leopold is more prone to this ringing than, say, a Filco.

I tried a board from WASD and it was, well, different without really being better or worse. I didn't notice the pronounced ping, which, on th at "some select locations only" like I do with the Leopold. It was rather a uniform low-level ring or ping that just didn't feel quite as solid to me at the Leopold. The difference was not really enough to matter were I not really paying attention to this aspect of the boards.

The only other thing I can think of is to try a Filco (Amazon has the Majestouch 2 full-sized Browns for the US now).

Or, maybe a Topre? (Well, I should say, "Or also a Topre?")

I can't imagine liking anything more than the Browns, though a little softer might be nice, so maybe the Topre is worth trying. (And maybe Reds at some point, too.)

I'm really just looking to get rid of the ringing for now,  before I try to improve on the keys.

I noticed, if I'm reading this correctly, a few posts saying the "newer" Leopolds have improvements over the original ones. Is this true? What's better about them? (I got mine mid-September.)

(Note that I'm using o-rings with the Leopold Browns and love it that way.)

Thanks!

Offline Gin

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« Reply #1 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 05:32:27 »
I'm sorry. But these are mechanical keyboards with switches that use springs. Springs make ringing/pinging noise.

Some people will say that it's a defect. Some will say it's not.

I have the opportunity to test type ~17 keyboards(das, Filco, Leopold, WASD, and ducky) and ALL of them have some sort of ringing/pinging. If this was a defect, then screw me royally.

I don't think buying keyboards until you find a non-ringing, non-pinging one is a good idea. It's actually very stupid, to be perfectly honest.

This is just my opinion.

Offline fohat.digs

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« Reply #2 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 08:28:24 »
I have had some success reducing ring/ping by stuffing/padding/insulating the plate/case assembly.

I have bought a waffle-textured rubber sheet made for the lining of drawers that is pretty good.

Stuff it tight on the inside, especially under the main plate, and see if that helps.
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Offline Levitha

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« Reply #3 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 09:02:36 »
Indeed, this is mechanical keyboards.. They will have some sort of ringing. For me it's not annoying at all.

Offline Tony

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« Reply #4 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 10:03:53 »
Your mech keyboard is trying to tell you something very significant.

Filco, Ducky, Xamor, Rosewill, Razer, Deck or Leopold are just missionaries of a higher force, a force beyond our capacity of understanding, which holds the utmost keyboarding power.

You are chosen to transport the message from the Keyboard God to our mere mortals.

Listen carefully and attentively.
« Last Edit: Fri, 16 December 2011, 10:13:24 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #5 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 10:10:31 »
If you are that concerned about the noise and are willing to keep hunting for the perfect keyboard then there's really only 1 answer.

Build your own keyboard.  For instance order what you need from the Phantom GB.  When you're assembling it carefully stuff the space between the plate and PCB with some non-adhesive non-conductive sound absorbent material.  Line the case in a similar way.  You might want to wait on Litster's acrylic case since it'll be heavier than using a donor case from a Filco or PLU.

This will definitely help, but there's no guarantee that you will like the results.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
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Offline kaiserreich

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« Reply #6 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 10:44:32 »
The best Cherry MX keyboard I've tried is the WYSE that I am using now.
Nicely built, no plastic creaking, smooth vintage MX blacks.

Offline flyball

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« Reply #7 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 10:46:07 »
ping
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Offline Clickey

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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 02:54:11 »
Try a PCB mounted board (Cherry, Poker), they ring less, but as others have said, every mechanical board rings to some degree.
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Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #9 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 03:31:15 »
Pinging?  Really?  Are you guys part dog or something or am I part deaf?

Last I heard, once you are past the age of twenty-four or so, your range of hearing is significantly lower.  Maybe you guys should wait about ten years before switching from rubber domes. . .

Keyjay, all joking and teasing aside, get a Topre or HHKB Pro, you will not regret it.  I have never heard the ping on my Cherrys so I don't know. . .

Maybe you could do a new "de-ping mod" and post here about it, here's an idea!:

http://www.leespring.com/browse_catalog.asp?springType=P

Plastic springs!

Offline keyjay

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« Reply #10 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 07:37:59 »
Thanks for the replies, folks. Sorry for not joining back into the conversation sooner. After the post immediately following my OP, I got a bit turned off and thought I'd focus on other things for awhile.

Ripster, when I went to Brian at EK with the ping issue, he was very forthcoming and gracious about it. He told me that he rarely finds one of the Leopolds that don't have at least "a few" keys or at least "a small area" of the board that will ping at least a little.

He explained to me that it's a design defect of the switches -- and that it's an entirely random, intermittent phenomenon where most switches don't exhibit the issue but a reasonable h percentage do. He pointed out that he boards exacerbate the pinging sound that the switches generate. That has been exactly my limited experience.

Then, well, gee… I really don't remember. He may have offered to send me a temporary replacement board at no charge so I could pick which of the two I preferred. Or I may have volunteered to just buy a second one and keep both, and use the second-choice one at home.

By the way, that experience led me to asking myself, gee… what's proper protocol if you develop a good rapport with a manufacturer and he does you a little favor? Do you tell others so they know how good of a man he is, or do you keep it close to the vest so others aren't expecting favors from him all the time?

And somehow I don’t remember what happened. Isn’t that peculiar?

I can tell you that I ended up trying two Leopolds and they both had pinging, in different ways and different places (though in both cases in was in the right half of the board).

Brian at EK told me that after my having tried two, it probably was a waste of time to try more because it was very unlikely I'd find one that didn't exhibit the issue.

That was back in September. I still have no idea what the “improved” Leopolds are that I think I read something about.

That was my experience with two Leopolds – full-sized.

I can definitely say that the board I got briefly from Weyman at WASD, before returning it right away (he, too, was extremely gracious in all ways), did not exhibit remotely the same kind of pinging as the Leopolds. It was very different.

With the Leopolds, much of the board just felt solid and neither the switches nor the base exhibited any noise at all -- but some switches would really trigger the ringing, and the base would then amplify it nicely.

In the case of the WASD, though, none of the switches made any particularly noticeable pinging noise (it was Browns, just like with my Leopold), but instead the entire board, or base rather, uniformly exhibited a low-level but consistently noticeable dull ringing that I would probably have noticed enough to have found always a bit annoying. But it’s possible I wouldn’t have noticed any noise at all during normal daily work.

It's because of how very differently those two makes of boards seems to be made and to exhibit a pinging that I ended up thinking that maybe a Filco “might” be better, maybe the best of both worlds.

As far as a mod goes, I have almost, sorta come up with a reasonably effective solution, I think... almost.

What I found was that, at least with the Leopold (which I can experiment with since I own that one), if I just laid the keyboard flat, without extending the feet, it reduced the sound considerably. This led me to trying something further, or at least "wanting" to try something further.

It seems to me that it would be really effective if one were to get a few sheets of, say, 1/8" thick rubber, which my local hardware store sells as gasket material, cut them to the size of the keyboard and put them under the keyboard so the base of the keyboard lays right on the rubber and not on the feet – either because of cutting the rubber sheet shy of the feet and layering the rubber sheets it so they’re thicker than the keyboard’s feet, or by just removing the rubber feet that the keyboard came with.

This, of course, means the keyboard is not elevated at the back, which so many people prefer.

But it should be able to dramatically if not entirely eliminate any audible ringing noise. And it even would provide a really solid feel to the keyboard, which I happen to like a lot.

The problem I encountered, though, is that the Leopold is far from flat! It's got so much of a “bend” to it that if I place it on rubber sheet that way that's the full size of the keyboard, the keyboard "rocks" from side to side and is only making solid contact in the middle.! So, I never got to actually try my theory.

Of course, the Leopold not being perfectly flat is never, ever, ever an issue if you just use its four feet.

If a layer of rubber works as expected, and one does want the back of the keyboard elevated, then the next best thing would be a strip of rubber under the front of the keyboard and about half-a-dozen strips stacked up across the back end of the keyboard. It would result in an “angled” keyboard laying on a “flat” surface at the back end and therefore would not provide the same amount of solid surface contact as when the keyboard is actually flat on rubber sheet, but it should do a pretty good job anyway. It would be far more solid support than just the four feet that are provided that come with a keyboard, and it should reduce vibration/ringing substantially.)

I'm actually looking forward to trying something like that. But, uh, does anyone know if the Filco, or Topre, will be flat or close to it?

That’s assuming they even need any sound dampening.

Naturally, another possible solution would be a wedge of rubber, so the keyboard is fully supported and yet is elevated at the back. (That would also provide a really solid feel, and surely prevent any walking.) Two sizes might fit all or most.

Of course, if the keyboard is just not really flat in the first place, I don’t have a solution for that.

I have to say, with all the discussion amongst enthusiasts about this issue, I’m surprised we aren’t seeing just that – rubber wedges to support the entire bottom surface of the keyboard.


EDIT: I turns out that I ended up liking and keeping the WASD. See further explanation in post #30 of this thread.
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 December 2011, 10:32:19 by keyjay »

Offline Gin

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« Reply #11 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 07:47:34 »
Quote from: keyjay;472716

I have to say, with all the discussion amongst enthusiasts about this issue, I’m surprised we aren’t seeing just that – rubber wedges to support the entire bottom surface of the keyboard.


Most of us got over the "issue" relatively quickly. Or never actually considered it a problem at all.

Offline keyjay

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« Reply #12 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 07:52:26 »
Quote from: Gin;472718
Most of us got over the "issue" relatively quickly. Or never actually considered it a problem at all.

As evidenced by ripster really wanting to know if EK has a return policy for pinging.

Could you please go find a different thread to "contribute" to... where you can feel more appreciated?

Offline Gin

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« Reply #13 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 07:55:01 »
I don't see why you appear to be upset?

I'm not intentionally trying to discredit or prevent you from doing what you are doing. And I would be happy if you actually post the result of the rubber mod.

Ask ripster what he thinks about ping.

Offline Tony

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« Reply #14 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 09:04:38 »
After all this is a mechanical keyboard, full of metal switches and springs. An attached plate to boot.

It must be noisy somehow, otherwise it is rubber doomed.

This is keyboard ecstasy. Like during sex, most of us scream, sob, shout or swear. Some girls giggle too, seeing the funny side of it.
« Last Edit: Sat, 17 December 2011, 09:08:40 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline ClackHead

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« Reply #15 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 09:16:59 »
It's just a good vibration.

[video=youtube;-eSN8Cwit_s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eSN8Cwit_s[/video]

Filco Majestouch TKL MXBlue

Offline nhwhaup

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« Reply #16 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 09:21:50 »
Quote from: keyjay;472719
As evidenced by ripster really wanting to know if EK has a return policy for pinging.

Could you please go find a different thread to "contribute" to... where you can feel more appreciated?


Really?  Is there any need for this?
Current in order of preference:  RealForce 87U Silent White with variable weighted keys X 2, Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless with Linear Reds, Filco Number-pad, Poker with Linear Reds

Sold or returned:  Multiple Microsoft and Logitech keyboards, Das Keyboard Silent, Cherry 6140, RealForce 103UB, RealForce 86U, Filco Majestouch 2 full sized with Linear Reds

Offline sordna

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« Reply #17 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 17:49:21 »
Why did you return the WASD keyboard ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline keyjay

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« Reply #18 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 20:52:46 »
Quote from: nhwhaup;472737
Really?  Is there any need for this?

Yes, I agree. Not what we're all here for. The reason I wrote that is, well, look at the second post in the thread... where my research efforts and feedback were put in a ridiculous context and then I was blessed with a psychological analysis from someone who is clearly a Ph.D. in psychology. And then in this most recent post that I responded to as I did, as you can see. I was essentially being told that I shouldn't be wanting to improve my working experience. Not much in the way of "contributions" when most of us are here to help each other find solutions in a pleasant, mutually supportive manner.

(At least I refrained from commenting to the other poster who asserted that I shouldn't be seeking a solution or an improved working experience because, essentially, it can't be done since it's a mechanical device. A wonderful "contribution" from a Ph.D. in engineering. I refrained from thanking him for helping me accept the fact that our level of technological capability in 2011 just hasn't evolved to the point where it’s possible to make a mechanical switch that doesn't create a pinging noise. I restrained myself from asking the magical mystery question of how it’s possible that I mistakenly seem to think there are already millions of mechanical button-type switches on the planet today that make no pinging noise at all. I was quite proud of myself for not pointing out that the intermittent nature of this issue alone demonstrates that it's just a design and/or manufacturing issue. I was really, really proud of myself for having constrained myself so well that I didn’t bother posting any of that. Er. Um. Did I? Oh, crap. Oh, well.)

At least I’m in good company with every innovator who was met with the brilliant chorus of “You shouldn’t want that, and it can’t be done”.

And I’m now even further inspired. I’m looking to innovate further. I’m wondering if the admins can create an IQ test or maturity test before allowing people to sign up. You know, like a “captcha” that goes a little further than what they use now. It’s clearly desirable, and surely must be doable. It would make them famous. Just a suggestion.

As to myself, I get into serious work when I’m typing. I run a biotech company with huge dollars and countless lives at stake. My desk is a carefully designed set of tools for me to get into working mode and make things happen. The pinging is indeed a distraction when I’m in the flow. Call me crazy for wanting to avoid that distraction so I can work better, and for trying to improve things (or, if all someone can come up with is to call me “very stupid” for trying to improve things, then I guess we’ll have to live with that, until the admins figure out how to create that new improved captcha thingy. I think it will be a really, really big hit!)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming… which I think is called “Contributions and solutions”.
« Last Edit: Sun, 18 December 2011, 22:05:07 by keyjay »

Offline keyjay

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« Reply #19 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 21:54:29 »
Quote from: sordna;473428
Why did you return the WASD keyboard ?

Hi sordna. I'm glad you asked that. I shouldn't have left people with the idea that there was anything at all wrong with it.

I was looking for a significantly compelling reason to keep it and to put my Leopold off to the side (or take it home). I tried it for all of two minutes and although it was really good it was just not quite better than the Leopold enough to be worth keeping.

When I wrote the OP, I remembered there was “some” ping. My recollection was that it was a universal low-level ringing noise.

However, coincidentally, I discovered over this weekend that my staff and I got our wires crossed and it was never shipped back. So, I unpacked it and put it on my desk and decided to actually use it awhile before making a final decision.

Upon using it I was quickly reminded that the pinging on this WASD is worse than the two Leopolds I’ve tried (one I kept and one I returned to EK). With this WASD, the pinging is really bad in the spacebar, and also exists in some keys to the right (up arrow, numpad).

I hit the spacebar petty hard and, of course, quite often. And it’s a pretty pronounced ping. So, I’d rather stay with the Leopold which has fewer keys making the noise, and isn’t as loud.

Otherwise, this WASD is a really sweet keyboard! All in all, pretty much the same as the Leopold.

A minor thing is also that the finish on the face of the base shows a few minor blemishes – shiny marks or scratches – that may be from the handling process during customization or just a manufacturing quirk. Finger oils make them stand out more. But it’s pretty minor. Most people would probably not care at all.

The WASD company is being very nice about taking it back. (I insisted on them taking a decent restocking fee since they’re being so accommodating and it’s just my personal tastes involved.)

I could totally enjoy using the Leopold or the WASD were it not for this damned annoying ping thing!

So, the WASD is going back given the intermittent ping of the spacebar and other keys. And my search continues. I might try a Filco. Or I might try to create a wedge. Or buy some earplugs for when I type.

Seriously, the Leopold isn’t so bad that I can’t ignore it. I only really notice it when using the numpad.

The WASD spacebar thing is well beyond my tolerance threshold.

I should point out that since this pinging thing is so varied from board to board, anther WASD might very well be much quieter than another Leopold might be. I really don’t know since this was my only WASD.

EDIT: I turns out that I ended up liking and keeping the WASD. See further explanation in post #30 of this thread. I simply hadn't "used" it to test it; just banged for a few seconds. Now that I tried using it, it seems just fine!
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 December 2011, 10:36:42 by keyjay »

Offline Gin

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« Reply #20 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 21:57:15 »
Quote from: keyjay;473519
Yes, I agree. Not what we're all here for. The reason I wrote that is, well, look at the second post in the thread... where my research efforts and feedback were put in a ridiculous context and then I was blessed with a psychological analysis from someone who is clearly a Ph.D. in psychology. And then in this most recent post that I responded to as I did, as you can see. I was essentially being told that I shouldn't be wanting to improve my working experience. Not much in the way of "contributions" when most of us are here to help each other find solutions in a pleasant, mutually supportive manner.

(At least I refrained from commenting to the other poster who asserted that I shouldn't be seeking a solution or an improved working experience because, essentially, it can't be done since it's a mechanical device. A wonderful "contribution" from a Ph.D. in engineering. I refrained from thanking him for helping me accept the fact that our level of technological capability in 2011 just hasn't evolved to the point where it’s possible to make a mechanical switch that doesn't create a pinging noise. I restrained myself from asking the magical mystery question of how it’s possible that I mistakenly seem to think there are already millions of mechanical button-type switches on the planet today that make no pinging noise at all. I was quite proud of myself for not pointing out that the intermittent nature of this issue alone demonstrates that it's just a design and/or manufacturing issue. I was really, really proud of myself for having constrained myself so well that I didn’t bother posting any of that. Er. Um. Did I? Oh, crap. Oh, well.)

At least I’m in good company with every innovator who was met with the brilliant chorus of “You shouldn’t want that, and it can’t be done”.

And I’m now even further inspired. I’m looking to innovate further. I’m wondering if the admins can create an IQ test or maturity test before allowing people to sign up. You know, like a “captcha” that goes a little further than what they use now. It’s clearly desirable, and surely must be doable. It would make them famous. Just a suggestion. 

As to myself, I get into serious work when I’m typing. I run a biotech company with huge dollars and countless lives at stake. My desk is a carefully designed set of tools for me to get into working mode and make things happen. The pinging is indeed a distraction when I’m in the flow. Call me crazy for wanting to avoid that distraction so I can work better, and for trying to improve things (or, if all someone can come up with is to call me “very stupid” for trying to improve things, then I guess we’ll have to live with that, until the admins figure out how to create that new improved captcha thingy. I think it will be a really, really big hit!)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming… which I think is called “Contributions and solutions”.

That's funny. You think the definition of contribution is "things I want to hear."

In your original post, you wanted to try keyboards until you find a non pinging one. Then I told you that I have tried an array of keyboards, all of which has some sort of mechanical noise. And that trying to buy keyboards until you find one without the noise is stupid. Maybe I should have said "not very smart" to dampen the damage I had done to your pride.

You did not reply to this.

Later on, you propose a rubber bottom for the Leopold, then asked why no one has tried this. I answered with "because no one really thinks that it's a real important problem."

To which you reply with an amazing condescending tone that I have not heard from anyone else but my second grade teacher when he talks about women "Could you please go find a different thread to "contribute" to... where you can feel more appreciated?"

Please do grow up.


Also,
Quote
And I’m now even further inspired. I’m looking to innovate further. I’m wondering if the admins can create an IQ test or maturity test before allowing people to sign up. You know, like a “captcha” that goes a little further than what they use now. It’s clearly desirable, and surely must be doable. It would make them famous. Just a suggestion.

Wow. Just wow. You're probably the biggest ******* I've seen around here. Probably the ONLY *******.

I do try my best to not talk to people like this.

I'll excuse myself from this thread as I don't want to create any further conflict.

GL anyways.
« Last Edit: Mon, 19 December 2011, 02:59:24 by Gin »

Offline sordna

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« Reply #21 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 21:58:33 »
Given what you posted so far, I'm going to recommend that you get a Realforce 87U silent, something like this @ $299:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se170s

Or, if you don't like the color / tenkeyless, get a full size one for $265:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,realforce&pid=rf_se0200

The first link (Silent) has a silenced upstroke, the downstroke sound is supposed to be the same in both boards.
« Last Edit: Sun, 18 December 2011, 23:24:33 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline keyjay

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« Reply #22 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 22:34:35 »
Quote from: sordna;473566
Given your last 2 posts, I'm going to recommend that you get a Realforce 87U silent, something like this @ $299:

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se170s

Or, if you don't like the color / tenkeyless, get a full size one for $265:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,realforce&pid=rf_se0200

The first link (Silent) has a silenced upstroke, the downstroke sound is supposed to be the same in both boards.

Thanks for those suggestions.

I spoke with EK a few months ago and we agreed I should wait for the RealForce 45-g uniform to come out, which I see is now available:

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se1900

I prefer full-sized, though, and it's only available in tenkeyless with no full-sized ever planned. I might try it with the separate numpad (which EK tells me happens to also be 45-g).

Or, I might try the full-sized with variable keys or, as you suggested, the Silent (which only comes tenkeyless with variable weights) and add the numpad. I don’t really care about “silence” per se (normal key taps don't bother me), but it is interesting.

Looks like my next step should be to check in with EK again for advice on which RF to get given the newer selections, and at least try one and go from there.

Thanks again!

EDIT: The "Silent" is variable but at a lower weight range than the standard variable. It's 35-40-45 vs 45-50-55. That might be interesting. I've noticed a number of users get an unwanted string of aaaa's and ;;;;'s but I'm curious about how I might like that keyboard overall. Also, I prefer a black keyboard and EK tells me you really can't expect to just glance to read the keys on the RF blacks. They said I'll have to memorize the keys, and said "You will."
« Last Edit: Sun, 18 December 2011, 23:06:11 by keyjay »

Offline sordna

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« Reply #23 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 23:29:59 »
Well, whataver you do, you should probably FORGET about Cherry MX keyboards.
The cherry switches have springs which WILL ping. Even the most solid keyboards will have some pinging switches. Over time, some switches may start to ping while some others that used to ping may stop. It comes with the territory and there are no guarantees. So, I would forget about cherries and buckling springs, and go with Topre switches if any amount of pinging is a dealbreaker for you. By the way, even non-metal-plate keyboards with MX switches such as the Kinesis Advantage and the KBC Poker exhibit some ping.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline keyjay

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Most solid board for MX Cherries
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 19 December 2011, 02:19:23 »
Quote from: sordna;473588
Well, whataver you do, you should probably FORGET about Cherry MX keyboards.
The cherry switches have springs which WILL ping. Even the most solid keyboards will have some pinging switches. Over time, some switches may start to ping while some others that used to ping may stop. It comes with the territory and there are no guarantees. So, I would forget about cherries and buckling springs, and go with Topre switches if any amount of pinging is a dealbreaker for you. By the way, even non-metal-plate keyboards with MX switches such as the Kinesis Advantage and the KBC Poker exhibit some ping.

Thanks. Sounds like a plan!

In my choosing what key weight to try in a Realforce, can someone please remind me what the weight is of the Cherry MX Browns, just so I have a point of reference? (I'll be looking for equal or lighter in a RF, though I'll have to feel my way on how much lighter.) I can ask EK but I suspect one of ripster's NASA-level tests may have provided a more accurate reading (I'd search the forum but it might take awhile to find the most recent or most agreed-upon number). Actually, my recollection from prior searches is that the best I could find was a weight "range".

My choices are essentially the 35-40-45 variable in the Silent tenkeyless, or the 45 uniform in a tenkeyless. (According to my inquiry with EK a few months ago, the 45-50-55 variable is probably heavier than I'll want, since I'm going from the Browns and I find them on the heavy side of ideal.)

Offline sordna

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Most solid board for MX Cherries
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 19 December 2011, 02:25:57 »
Cherry browns's tactile point needs about 50grams of pressure to overcome, see the various switches and their force graphs here:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+Corporation+Switch+Wiki#Brown

and compare to topre ones:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre#Topre+switch+force+graphs
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline keyjay

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Most solid board for MX Cherries
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 21 December 2011, 10:23:52 »
I need to update my prior comments about the WASD keyboard.

Initially, I had just banged on it for a few minutes as a "test" without even hooking it up before deciding to send it back due to pinging.

It turns out, though, that due to crossed wires with my staff, it didn't get shipped back yet. So, I decided to hook it up and use it awhile in order to make a more well-informed judgment.

And, as it turns out, it seems fine! I like it! The pinging is really barely noticeable, or rather it’s only infrequently noticeable, and the feel of it overall is great! In fact, since that and my Leopold both have Cherry browns, they feel pretty darn close to identical.

The pinging is, overall, no more and no less of an issue than with the Leopold.

So, I'm keeping the WASD and taking it home. The Leopold will stay at the office (arbitrary choice based really just on appearance of the two).

And I'll try a Topre soon (probably 45-g uniform).

Offline ownerer

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Most solid board for MX Cherries
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 21 December 2011, 14:16:40 »
Quote from: inaneframe;472664
Pinging?  Really?  Are you guys part dog or something or am I part deaf?

Last I heard, once you are past the age of twenty-four or so, your range of hearing is significantly lower.  

For real though, going on like 6 boards and I don't hear any ping. Just go to some concerts or something. Ping solved!