Author Topic: Long time dome user looking for advice about mechanical keyboards  (Read 6548 times)

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Offline The_Beast

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I've pretty much been using rubber dome keyboards my entire computing life. This keyboard is wearing out (W key and left shift) and it's starting to hurt my FPS game performance. I've been looking for about a month now reading every forum I could but spending most of my time here reading ripsters post.

Anyways, I play a lot of games (FPS and RPG) but still have to type reports and such for school. I've decided on MX Browns since it's a good key type to start out with. I've narrowed it down to just a couple of models/brands.



Ducky DK9008S - ~$136 shipped
  - Pros -
    - Cool backlighting (Not a must but is nice since I've never had it before)
    - Good quality
    - Media key
    - Detectable USB cable (real pro since I move my keyboard from it's slide out tray onto my desktop to game)

  - Cons -
    - If something breaks will I need to learn Chinese to return it


Filco Majestouch - ~$150 shipped
  - Pros -
    - Best quality (or so they say)

  - Cons -
    - Price
    - No detectable USB cable


Leopold Tactile Touch Keyboard - ~$122 shipped
  - Pros -
    - Good quality (some say better than Filco)
    - Price
    - Detectable USB cable

  - Cons -
    - Bad return policy for first time mech. keyboard buyers (If buying from EK)


WASD V1 Semi-Custom Mechanical Keyboard - ~$133
  - Pros -
    - Pre-customized to how I would already do my keyboard

  - Cons -
    - No detectable USB cable
    - Not sure of keyboards quality


Rosewill RK-9000BR - ~$118
  - Pros -
    - Price
    - Heard they are from the same OEM as Filco
    - Detectable USB cable

  - Cons -
    - Not a fan of Rosewill products


Right now I'm leaning toward the Ducky, Leopold, and the WASD (I've done the least amount of research on this brand) because they are a little cheap and have a few more features than the king (Flico). Anyways what would you recommend for a first time mechanical keyboard buyer?
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Offline Quarzac

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Long time dome user looking for advice about mechanical keyboards
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 09 January 2012, 19:26:55 »
Apparently you can't go wrong with WASD. I have yet to invest in one, but I don't think a single person who has has been disappointed. They have quality customer service, which is a big plus. Allowing the quality to disconcert you would be a mistake.
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Offline BossBorot

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« Reply #2 on: Mon, 09 January 2012, 19:51:09 »
I would go wasd if you want a full sized keyboard. On the other hand I would go filco or leopold for 87 key keyboards. Rosewill is a good alternative to wasd but I would only go that route if it comes out under $100 as they have sales on them from time to time.

Offline aoya

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« Reply #3 on: Mon, 09 January 2012, 20:07:18 »
If you're willing to take b-stock, EK may have some b-stock Leopolds leftover. When I contacted them they had one available. They run for $85.

Offline iBro

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« Reply #4 on: Mon, 09 January 2012, 20:10:50 »
First off I would like to commend you for doing considerable research before starting a thread about what keyboard to buy. I will break down your post and try to answer some of the questions you have, or point out some things I disagree with you on.

--I have heard bad things about Ducky's quality. But this may be focusing on different models than the one you are looking at. Overall I can't comment much on duckys

--With Filco's being the "best quality", I'm not so sure about that. I feel that mostly WASD, DAS, Leopold, Rosewill, and Filco are pretty much all on the same level of build quality. This answers your question later on in your post about how you aren't sure of WASD's quality. Yes they are new but from the people that own them I have only heard great things about their quality.

-- No detachable USB cable seems to be a con for you. I've never had a problem with a detachable USB cable yet, and it may very well be a nice option for you to have, but some people out their claim that these cables have a greater chance of breaking and that risk is too high for them to really get behind detachable USB cables. (INB4 RIPSTER)

-- My first board was a Leopold with browns and I do agree that the return policy isn't good at all, and that for that reason it may be better to pick a different keyboard.

-- You forgot to mention Rosewill disgusting logo as one of it's cons :tongue:

So when it comes to what board to buy I feel you really only have one thing left to consider, do you want/need a tenkeyless model? If your answer is no, then I believe that it is a clear cut victory for the WASD. The quality is top notch. I hear the customer support is superb. And like you pointed out, there is so much that you can do to customize your own keyboard to really make it your own.

Before I end I would like to give you a fair warning about Brown switches. I naively purchased Leopold with brown switches for my first board simply because that is what everyone told me to do. I just sold my board after less than a month of light use because I was unsatisfied with the feel. Don't get me wrong, they are a definite upgrade from a rubber dome, but after trying blue and buckling spring switches I can say that they simply can't compare to the feel of the other tactile switches. ( I haven't tried clear switches yet ). The tactility that the brown switches give is so small that instead of feeling nice and crisp like the blues, it feels muddy and almost as if the switch is broken, causing it to experience minor friction during the key press. This ends up giving a muddy feel that is not as pleasing as a nice smooth linear switch, but also not as crisp and enjoyable as a blue switch.

In my opinion you should either go for blues if you want a tactile feel, or you should go with a linear switch if the noise of the blues is an issue. The issue between black and red switches is forever raging on forums like this, but all I can say is that black switches usually have around the same actuation force as rubber domes. So don't buy into the "if you type more than two paragraphs your hands will cramp up and then fall off" propaganda that is spread about the black switches.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the first generation Leopolds are on sale now at EK. This price drop may be great enough for you to overlook their ****ty return policy. But then again, it may not.
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Offline The_Beast

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« Reply #5 on: Mon, 09 January 2012, 21:34:15 »
I like the look of TKL but if I have to do spread sheets or accounting for any reason it would be nice to have a number pad (or use them as macro keys in game). The reason I'm going with the browns is that they are less noisy than the blues but can still game like the reds/blacks.


I'll keep researching WASD before I buy, I'll probably be making a purchase within a few days once I get a little more feedback. Thanks for the help
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Offline davkol

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« Reply #6 on: Mon, 09 January 2012, 23:07:03 »
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« Last Edit: Tue, 03 July 2018, 08:15:40 by davkol »

Offline iBro

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« Reply #7 on: Tue, 10 January 2012, 00:00:45 »
Quote from: davkol;487048
Browns aren't less noisy, the noise is on lower frequency.

You can get an external num-pad (even mechanical one). Mouse/trackball next to the most used part of the keyboard is a huge ergonomic advantage... and most people don't have mouse on the left.

Th only noise made by brown switches is them bottoming out. In blue switches there is an audible click that is made from the switch itself that is usually quite louder than the sound of the key bottoming out. So yes brown switches are quieter than blue switches. And if the sound of bottoming out the key in a keyboard using brown switches is still too loud for some people, they can always use an o-ring mod.
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Offline Ciardhubh

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« Reply #8 on: Tue, 10 January 2012, 10:46:41 »
I was in the same position a few days ago, i.e. my old worn-out membrane keyboard had to be replaced.

My list of pros and cons looked a bit different. From what I gathered from reviews and forums I came up with this list:

Filco Majestouch
most switches available
available in tenkeyless size
small, space-efficient frame
favourable opinions but quality issues seem to be common (misaligned switches at arrow cluster/esc, twisted frame, printed letters wear off relatively fast, keys are coated and coat wears off (does not apply to blank and ninja versions))
expensive

Das Keyboard Model S
Cherry MX blues (normal) or browns (silent)
lasered, uncoated keys on Professional
no key captions on Ultimate
extra long cable
didn't come across specific complaints other than the glossy surface
USB 2 hub (right side)

Zowie Celeritas
Cherry MX browns
printed (? conflicting reviews) key caps that wear off relatively fast
lit logo
multimedia controls

Cherry G80-3000
Cherry MX browns, blacks and blues
relatively inexpensive
big case wastes space
no NKRO

Razer Black Widow
Cherry MX blues (normal) or Cherry MX browns (stealth)
very large frame
extra macro keys on left side, i.e. it's broader than other full-size keyboards
backlighting version has cheap key caps (not double-shot), black coating wears off and light shines through

I left out non-browns I looked at and gave WASD (favourable opinions, customisation), Leopold (many quality complaints and controller issues), Ducky, Rosewill, etc. only a cursory glance because they don't seem to come in my desired layout (German or ISO blank at a reasonable price).

In the end I went with a Das Keyboard Ultimate Silent. Typing feels great, build quality is very solid and I'm happy with my choice. The Das key caps are apparently the same as WASD key caps, so I'll likely order some from them to customise it a little.

Offline enoy21

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« Reply #9 on: Tue, 10 January 2012, 10:56:34 »
WASD has the 105 ISO now don't they ?  


And another +1 for WASD. I just purchased my third board from them,    See my post in the sub forums.   To be fair I've only used WASD And Filco and both are of very nice quality and I like the designs.

The one thing I would like to see from WASD is perhaps a little less unused real-estate  at the bottom ( for the curve) and the edges, giving it a smaller form factor.
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Offline pitashen

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« Reply #10 on: Tue, 10 January 2012, 11:29:41 »
Wasd
\\\\ DSI Mac Modular Keyboard (Brown) w/ Leo  Blank Keycaps //
\\\\ Leopold 87keys Keyboard (Brown) w/ Black CherryCorp + SP DoubleShots //
\\\\ Filco Majestouch 2 NINJA (Black) w/ White CherryCorp + SP DoublsShots //

Offline The_Beast

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« Reply #11 on: Tue, 10 January 2012, 17:53:36 »
It looks like I'll be ordering a WASD tonight. Just one more question. What's better laser etched or engraved? I can type without looking most of the time but sometimes I have to look down to get my fingering in the right position, so it seems like etched but I really like the look of engraved. Is there any reason to go with one over the other?
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Offline pitashen

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« Reply #12 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 03:14:24 »
whatever pleases your eyes better. As long as you don't mind engraved cap being harder to see in low light, all is good.
\\\\ DSI Mac Modular Keyboard (Brown) w/ Leo  Blank Keycaps //
\\\\ Leopold 87keys Keyboard (Brown) w/ Black CherryCorp + SP DoubleShots //
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #13 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 04:52:42 »
Shy away from black caps if your going etched as the etch i like a greyish and doesnt ?atch the other caps and would be the first to "wear" due to its nature. I personally love the etch the contrast on everything but blue is amazing.

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #14 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 08:22:55 »
Ripster jumps all over Leopold "issues" like a cat on a mouse.

But when it comes to Filco it's always "the mcrip effect".

Hmmm...

« Last Edit: Wed, 11 January 2012, 08:26:22 by keyboardlover »

Offline enoy21

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« Reply #15 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 08:23:04 »
I loved my filco and never noticed the misaligned keys and ping on F2 key until some ****ing picky ass geekhackers pointed them out.   lol

Even after noticing it , I never paid it a bit of attention as it wasn't something that effected the typing experience at all.   Never heard the ping again after testing for it and I don't tend to stare at my arrow keys.
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Offline flyball

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« Reply #16 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 08:23:59 »
Quote from: Ciardhubh;487334

Filco Majestouch
most switches available


stopped reading here :)
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Offline Armando Penblade

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« Reply #17 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 09:42:49 »
I've definitely seen pictures of a Razer with backlight shining through worn keys. It might have been shopped or even a singularly unlucky dude, but ever since seeing that image, many moons ago, I've associated BlackWidows with cheap key-coating.
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Offline Ciardhubh

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« Reply #18 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 10:21:02 »
Quote from: ripster;487899
This is wrong too.  At least I've never seen anybody at OCN/Geekhack complain about the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate keys turning into blobs.


I'm not claiming my points to be scientifically and statistically foolproof. I merely collected complaints from people I found in reviews and various forums. I don't remember where I found it anymore and it seemed like something that was common with many backlit keyboards (again: from what I've read). I didn't bother to run a statistically sound survey because I didn't like the look and extra keys of the Black Widow to begin with.

As for the Filco, one of my main requirements were durable cap legends (or none at all). My cheap 20€ Cherry membrane keyboard was  5 years old, used daily and legends are still as good as on the first day. Granted, they weren't perfect to begin with but even W, A, S and D are still as good as any other key. That's the least I expect from a keyboard that's almost an order of magnitude more expensive. Which is why Filco wasn't for me, considering quite a few complained about wear. The other issues were fairly minor but added to me leaning towards other brands, especially considering Filco is among the most expensive brands which are available here.

How serious you take each of those points is up to you, as is the case with all online-reviews. It's something you might want to investigate further or ignore as irrelevant. In the end, it's always just some guy in some forum writing something from his subjective point of view.

Offline flyball

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« Reply #19 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 10:37:19 »
Quote from: Ciardhubh;487984
My cheap 20€ Cherry membrane keyboard was  5 years old, used daily and legends are still as good as on the first day.

is it pad printed? then key legends should be the last thing you care about.
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Offline Armando Penblade

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« Reply #20 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 10:51:36 »
He does raise a good point, though. The "protective coating" or whatever has worn off a few of my Filco keys and my "E," "A," ".," "Backspace," and "Shift" keys all are turning greyish-yellow on my 6Gv2. On the other hand, at the end of my cheapo Comfort Curve 2000's lifespan, the legends of WASDETR started to wear off. Every damn key was hideously shiny, but those legends stuck on like nobody's business.

Guess my thinking is: isn't it weird to anyone else that you can throw down a game console's worth of money on a keyboard and get stuck with key caps ****ter than a $10 MS rubber dome?

To say nothing of Topre. . . :D
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Offline flyball

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« Reply #21 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 10:57:38 »
Quote from: Armando Penblade;488001
He does raise a good point, though. The "protective coating" or whatever has worn off a few of my Filco keys and my "E," "A," ".," "Backspace," and "Shift" keys all are turning greyish-yellow on my 6Gv2. On the other hand, at the end of my cheapo Comfort Curve 2000's lifespan, the legends of WASDETR started to wear off. Every damn key was hideously shiny, but those legends stuck on like nobody's business.

Guess my thinking is: isn't it weird to anyone else that you can throw down a game console's worth of money on a keyboard and get stuck with key caps ****ter than a $10 MS rubber dome?

To say nothing of Topre. . . :D

wear resistance isnt the only metric of quality
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Offline Ciardhubh

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« Reply #22 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 11:51:13 »
Quote from: flyball;487994
is it pad printed? then key legends should be the last thing you care about.


As far as I know they're lasered; looks like it (judging from looking at the key wiki) and that's what the official Cherry site says for the G83-6105. All I can say for sure is that the caps are made out of POM ... well, at least that's what it says inside them ;)

Offline iBro

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« Reply #23 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 12:00:30 »
Quote from: ripster;488009
The OP  should wait for Leopolds in white lasered thick PBT keys.

That should  do it.  Assuming the controller problems go away.

Gross colored side legends are gross.
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Offline Armando Penblade

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« Reply #24 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 12:14:16 »
Quote from: flyball;488005
wear resistance isnt the only metric of quality

If I'm dropping $155 on a keyboard, I want it to hit all the right spots, man. Unless Diatec's started advertising a free Otaku with the purcahse of ever regular Filco. . . just wait six months!
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Offline The_Beast

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« Reply #25 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 14:46:08 »
Just ordered:

WASD V1 Semi-Custom Mechanical Keyboard

Switch Type
    - Cherry MX Brown (Tactile bump)
Laser Method
    - Engraved
Layout
    - Modern
Base Keycap Color
    - Black
Escape Key Color
    - Orange
WASD Keys Color
    - Blue
OS Key Style
    - Blank, Flat
Modifications
    - Install 40A Hardness O-Ring Switch Dampeners
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Offline enoy21

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« Reply #26 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 14:55:53 »
Good call ! You wont be dissatisfied.   Go ahead and start saving for your next one.
WASD 104 work
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Offline jkercado

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« Reply #27 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 15:01:03 »
Reads like a nicely-spec'ed unit. Congrats! Pics and a brief review when you get it. :becky:

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Offline iBro

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« Reply #28 on: Wed, 11 January 2012, 23:55:58 »
Quote
OS Key Style
- Blank, Flat

Yes! The F with those stupid bubble windows keys!
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Offline The_Beast

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« Reply #29 on: Thu, 12 January 2012, 05:39:12 »
Yup, I plan on writing an autohotkey script that disables the windows function and makes it a media key for VLC, shortcuts for firefox......


Plus it doesn't fit with the smooth and clean look I'm going for (ie engraved keys)
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Offline enoy21

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« Reply #30 on: Thu, 12 January 2012, 07:02:29 »
I went with the flat TUX.  I got that on my fiance's board and thought it looked very well done.
WASD 104 work
WASD 104 home
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Filco MJ2 Ninja 87 [sold]

Offline Barn

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« Reply #31 on: Thu, 12 January 2012, 09:58:33 »
If WASD sold a TKL version i'd buy it. I have bought some keys from them though :)

Offline iBro

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« Reply #32 on: Thu, 12 January 2012, 11:44:36 »
Quote from: Barn;488668
If WASD sold a TKL version i'd buy it. I have bought some keys from them though :)

I have heard rumors of them coming out with a TKL version later this year.
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Offline enoy21

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« Reply #33 on: Thu, 12 January 2012, 11:46:46 »
Q4 according to their subforums.
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Offline The_Beast

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« Reply #34 on: Fri, 13 January 2012, 14:52:02 »
Quote from: enoy21;488781
Q4 according to their subforums.


Sounds like I might need a TKL gaming keyboard in Q4, lol
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Offline The_Beast

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« Reply #35 on: Sun, 15 January 2012, 09:48:41 »
I should been here Monday however with MLK day on Monday I'll have to wait even longer :(
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