Author Topic: Kinesis Advantage is a $300 plastic piece of SH1T!! (Read 5147 times)

FinancialWar · « **on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 02:54:08 »

OK, I got my Kinesis Advantage today, the keyboard is entirely made of cheap plastic and costs $300? It's so light and feels bentable, feels like it's worth less than $30. This one is going straight back to the seller.

cactux · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 02:58:44 »

^ pictures

FinancialWar · « **Reply #2 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 03:10:53 »

You can find pictures on google, just search for "kinesis advantage"...?

cactux · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 03:17:35 »

^ I thought that was something special in your board, that is the reason why I asked you for some pictures.

FinancialWar · « **Reply #4 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 03:20:27 »

I didn't say anything about the board. I said the keyboard was made entirely out of plastic which applies to all Kinesis Advantage, I sure they didn't just to make it plastic just for me.

For a $300 keyboard I really expected something better, even my $120 Filco feels much more solid.

pitashen · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 03:21:03 »

a lot of things are cheapen down nowadays. Kensis boards used to have doubleshot keys as well if i remember right.

cactux · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 03:26:02 »

Quote from: dvorak;487150

I didn't say anything about the board. I said the keyboard was made entirely out of plastic which applies to all Kinesis Advantage, I sure they didn't just to make it plastic just for me.

For a $300 keyboard I really expected something better, even my $120 Filco feels much more solid.

People around here called the "computer keyboards" boards. The pcb board is other story.
If you want a more solid ergonomic "board" you shall get a M15

flyball · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 04:13:31 »

Quote from: dvorak;487150

I didn't say anything about the board. I said the keyboard was made entirely out of plastic which applies to all Kinesis Advantage, I sure they didn't just to make it plastic just for me.

For a $300 keyboard I really expected something better, even my $120 Filco feels much more solid.

the switches aren't plate mounted. at least there's no ping?

Tony · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 05:00:28 »

You can always rma it. Case closed.

gilgam · « **Reply #9 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 05:11:29 »

Quote from: cactux;487153

People around here called the "computer keyboards" boards. The pcb board is other story.
If you want a more solid ergonomic "board" you shall get a M15

This will be lore than 300$ :-)

kps · « **Reply #10 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 06:44:34 »

Quote from: dvorak;487137

OK, I got my Kinesis Advantage today, the keyboard is entirely made of cheap plastic and costs $300? It's so light and feels bentable, feels like it's worth less than $30.

You really, really need to get your hands on a Maltron.

Findecanor · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 07:17:00 »

Quote from: dvorak;487137

It's so light and feels bentable, feels like it's worth less than $30.

The switches are plate-mounted, but they are mounted in a curved "plate", or "key well" that is injection molded plastic.
Can you think of a way to construct the curved key wells in a better may, perhaps in metal like steel or aluminium (zink pot metal is too flimsy) ? In a way that is also cost-effective for mass production? I would like to know how that could be done, not just to defend the Kinesis but also because I have a design of my own with curved key wells that I want to build and I haven't really figured out this part.
Plates for a flat keyboard like the Filco can be stamped, water-cut or routed in 2D. To CNC-route something like a Kinesis' key well of out a block of metal, you would need a router on a robot arm with six degrees of freedom, which is quite rare, and it would have to run for a while for each block. Such a board would cost quite a bit more than $300, I think ...

Even though it is relatively light, I do find it to be very solid and quite sturdy on my desk.
There aren't many $30 keyboards that are programmable and come with a USB hub.
I think that they skimped on only two things: 1) rubber function keys (but I almost never use function keys anyway), 2 ) the large thumb-keys don't have stabilizers. (Not that you would press them off-centre with your thumb)

Quote from: cactux;487153

People around here called the "computer keyboards" boards. The pcb board is other story.
If you want a more solid ergonomic "board" you shall get a M15

Isn't the IBM M15 flimsier? I have never used one, but I have heard that the M15 is supposedly constructed a lot in the same way as the M2. I have an IBM M2 and it is quite flimsy, it flexes more than my Kinesis Advantage, for sure ...

Quote from: kps;487194

You really, really need to get your hands on a Maltron.

Hehe..

alaricljs · « **Reply #12 on:** Tue, 10 January 2012, 07:42:50 »

It should be possible to stamp single key columns for the wells out of steel and then another steel backing plate for the mount points at top and bottom. That'll drive up costs

FinancialWar · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 11 January 2012, 19:36:14 »

Ripster: it's about 970 gram, also measured my filco tenkeyless@920gram.

Surprised to find that the filco is lighter.

moogatronic · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 11 January 2012, 19:44:04 »

Did you buy it new? I am interested in obtaining another used Kinesis Advantage, if you want to sell me yours. I think it's a fantastic keyboard, but it has a special purpose...

Quote from: dvorak;487137

OK, I got my Kinesis Advantage today, the keyboard is entirely made of cheap plastic and costs $300? It's so light and feels bentable, feels like it's worth less than $30. This one is going straight back to the seller.

Findecanor · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 11 January 2012, 20:26:37 »

Quote from: alaricljs;487207

It should be possible to stamp single key columns for the wells out of steel and then another steel backing plate for the mount points at top and bottom. That'll drive up costs

One steel strip for each column? There is a large risk for there being ugly gaps in-between them. That would sure drive up the cost, and I am not sure that it would be sturdier than using injection-molded plastic.
I have been thinking that if one of the rows did not have height differences between columns, then the columns could be connected in that row and the whole plate pressed in stages. First that row is pressed to get curvature and then the columns, but there would have to be fingers inside the mounting holes to guide the columns to avoid warping.

Lanx · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 11 January 2012, 20:52:40 »

yea i agree, the plastic really is janky.

sordna · « **Reply #17 on:** Wed, 11 January 2012, 21:04:11 »

Quote from: dvorak;487137

OK, I got my Kinesis Advantage today, the keyboard is entirely made of cheap plastic and costs $300? It's so light and feels bentable, feels like it's worth less than $30. This one is going straight back to the seller.

- Why is it a problem it is made of plastic? There's tons of fine keyboards that don't have a metal plate.
- It's really not lighter than your average tenkeyless
- All keyboards are bendable, in fact when a regular metal-plate keyboard wobbles you are supposed to twist it (bend it backwards) to fix!
- Have you tried the uber-expensive and legendary Maltron? It's as light as a feather (way lighter than a Kinesis, probably lighter than even a Poker), and not only bendable but you can actually squeeze the surface / make a temporary dent in it with your finger. That has very little to do with ergonomics however.

I suggest you give the Kinesis an honest try, it's a great ergonomic keyboard, with great features. It just doesn't have a metal plate!

BTW I too have noticed if you push down a key with huge force (I'm not talking typing force of grams, but kilograms!) the "bowl" bends. That doesn't affect typing at all. I've swapped keycaps, added o-rings, etc pushing keys hard to reinstall, etc, and while it bends while I do that, that's the only occasion I notice this bending. It doesn't affect the feeling or functionality during normal use at all. My Poker bends much worse when I pull a key from the middle of the keyboard (it gives me the feeling the PCB will snap in 2 pieces).

bbbbqq · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 12 January 2012, 05:04:59 »

Breaking news: A complicated and difficult to produce keyboard with a three-dimensional keywell isnt milled out of solid gold

MORE AT 11

sordna · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 12 January 2012, 10:14:28 »

Ripster, do you want a free Kinesis with doubleshots to experiment with? The switches are worn, so it's good to try lubes on it too.

FinancialWar · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 12 January 2012, 20:11:30 »

got the Topre, what a world of difference. The build quality, the comfort and the typing experience.

BTW do you want the weight for the 104u?

sordna · « **Reply #21 on:** Thu, 12 January 2012, 20:42:18 »

dvorak, aren't you going to try out the Kinesis for at least a week? It has built-in dvorak too, that's what I'm using.
In my view it has proven the best keyboard for typing I have come across so far.

FinancialWar · « **Reply #22 on:** Thu, 12 January 2012, 23:30:42 »

No, unless kinesis comes with Topre which I am in love.

sordna · « **Reply #23 on:** Thu, 12 January 2012, 23:36:12 »

Oooh, a Kinesis with Topre 30 - 35g switches would really be something! In the mean time, I'm quite happy with my cherry reds version:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 37384[/ATTACH]

sordna · « **Reply #24 on:** Thu, 12 January 2012, 23:48:37 »

And here's the one Ripster doesn't want for free (even though he happily accepts beer-soaked junky apple keyboards). I'm trying to make a real expert out of him, but he just won't open up his mind to ergonomic keyboards. This one has doubleshots and detachable cable (done right). It's also heavily used for 20 years, and still works great! I guess I have to strongly disagree with your thread title.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 37386[/ATTACH]

FinancialWar · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 13 January 2012, 00:55:12 »

I just have to agree to disagree there. The general construction is not acceptable for a keyboard of this price tag. It's like buying a Ferrari and the build quality is worse than a Great Wall. Not acceptable. Metal construction or high quality plastic.

BTW the 104U is 1380grams, all the weight I have provided does not include cable weight.

flyball · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 13 January 2012, 01:41:57 »

do you type with a hammer

FinancialWar · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 13 January 2012, 08:37:02 »

Quote from: flyball;489307

do you type with a hammer

if I do the Kinesis will not be able to withstand the abuse but the Realforce will.

kps · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 13 January 2012, 09:51:23 »

Quote from: sordna;489261

And here's the one Ripster doesn't want for free (even though he happily accepts beer-soaked junky apple keyboards).

I could pretend to be Ripster. I'll even provide a photograph of a Lego figure with a giant Verdana watermark.

I must admit my KB132MPC has a small chip in the plastic seam on one corner. This is because, on a previous desk, I was in the habit of leaning forward on my elbows there.

shrap · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 14 January 2012, 00:24:25 »

I'm lost. Why are we comparing a keyboard (Topre) that has the same layout as a $5 Dell to a Kinesis?

FinancialWar · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 14 January 2012, 00:43:05 »

Quote from: shrap;490091

I'm lost. Why are we comparing a keyboard (Topre) that has the same layout as a $5 Dell to a Kinesis?

What are you trying to imply? That I paid $295 for the layout and $5 for the built quality? Because that's very true.

shrap · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 14 January 2012, 00:48:24 »

I'm not quite sure why you think spending $295 on slightly thicker plastic is a better deal, but that's something I can live with.

sordna · « **Reply #32 on:** Sat, 14 January 2012, 01:24:17 »

Anyone want to try a vintage Kinesis with doubleshots? Click my sig to sign up!

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Author Topic: Kinesis Advantage is a $300 plastic piece of SH1T!! (Read 5147 times)