Author Topic: Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage  (Read 208551 times)

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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 12 February 2012, 17:24:16 »
Ah, your palm keys will do layer switching. Neat!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Icarium

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 12 February 2012, 18:28:16 »
Quote from: sordna;512741
Ah, your palm keys will do layer switching. Neat!


What I can't decide now is whether I want to use touchpads (as mentioned before) or just a couple of ordinary MX reds (maybe 4 or 6 per side) under the usual Kinesis palm pads for the switches. Will come down to how hard it is to read the state of the touchpads with a microcontroller.

Anyway, trackpoint mod first. :)
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 22:13:26 »
I added quick connectors to the 4 spare spots on the matrix, and rewired my 4 extra thumb keys to take advantage of them (instead of using the footswitch leads). Documented this in new part 4 of the wiki.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 22:25:50 »
So at this point, every physical key you've added (6) to your keyboard can still be individually remapped just like every other key on the Kinesis! That is very cool, even if the odds are high that symmetrical pairs will be the same (ie:modifiers).

Diodes not needed for foot switch connections? I didn't add and didn't have any issues, but that keyboard is currently offline and not being used, so I'm not certain what the actual status is of the configuration.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 February 2012, 22:30:00 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 22:43:11 »
Actually the keys under the shifts are the only ones left that go to the footswitch (both go to the FS2 terminal for momentary keypad access). So my 6 new keys can be remapped to 5 different actions. Anyway, I'm already taking advantage of this, the new thumb key to the right of the Home has now become an End key (since my original End is always mapped to Escape for vim). Also, my right semi-palm key is now mapped produces an R_Shift instead of an L_Shift :-)

I doubt diodes are needed for the footswitch connections. I did verify that diodes work (they activate the action one way, and don't activate if turned the other way) so if we discover any ghosting issues we can add them, but it's unlikely.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 00:11:38 »
I was reviewing and according to the matrix, it seems there may be 4 additional hidden keys in the thumb clusters. Can you test/confirm this?

Left------2+4 and 1+5
Right-----4+7 and 6+8
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 00:43:32 »
Are those numbers for the thumb cluster 10-wire ribbons? I can try it next time I open up a keyboard. By the way, I'm curious, what are you typing on usually these days, are you using a Kinesis or something else?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 00:51:32 »
Daily driver Kinesis Advantage/browns, stock/un-modified. How Boring! I just have a mish-mash of doubleshot, singleshot, some 50A o-rings, some not, and a bunch of WASD keycaps to determine what will work for replacements, but that seems to be about wrapped up thanks to Boli/Erw/Kps and crew. Ever notice how mechanics drive classic cars that are halfway restored? That's me with my daily driver Kinesis and the crazy keycaps. I even have the "6' keycap off! Ghetto!

Yes to the wire info.

I just realized I have a keyboard that is fully intact and open....I go find a wire and test right now.
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 February 2012, 00:54:36 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 01:05:06 »
Quote from: input nirvana;515885
I just realized I have a keyboard that is fully intact and open....I go find a wire and test right now.

You mean, you don't open up your daily driver? That's the one I open up usually, it's only 6 screws... I don't even unplug it from the computer, except when modding it
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 01:15:51 »
On the left thumb cluster I short 2+4 ("return") and 1+5 ("command") and get the audible click.
On the right thumb cluster I short 4+7 'I think' ("ESC" "1" "2") and 6+8 ("forward delete") and get the audible click.

To test, I remapped the 4 locations. The remapping affected the actual "return" and "forward delete" keys. The "ESC-1-2" keys were unaffected and the one hidden key was successfully remapped. The "command" has no key, and and the hidden location was successfully remapped as well. It seems that there are 2 possible hidden keys, one on each thumb cluster. The other location on each thumb cluster appears to be 'connected' to the corresponding key switch locations ("return" and "forward delete").

It also seems that even though this is on a 30,xxx PC model (not Mac or Mac switchable, firmware ver. 03/06/99 2.48A) that it does in fact have a "command" key for Mac use!

This should be done on an Advantage.

P.S.----I don't open my daily driver because I have 4 others that are available or already open :)
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:33:24 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:04:22 »
Ok, I did it:
On the left, 2+4 does Return however when I remapped M to 2+4, my regular Return on the right side started producing M. So it's not usable, except if you want to add an extra Return key on the left. However, 1+5 produced Super_L (left windows key) which can be remapped without interfering with the Keypad layer PrtScr (which also produces Super_L when the keyboard is in PC-nonwindows mode which I use and which doesn't normally have any windows keys in the thumb clusters). Good find!

On the right, 4+7 produces Escape (followed by 1, followed by 2, followed by release of Escape) and is remappable without interfering with the regular Escape, but 6+8 produces Delete which if remapped, remaps the regular Delete as well.

So we have 2 remappable keys in the thumb cluster matrix 1+5 on the left, and 4+7 on the right. That brings the grand total of hidden remappable keys to 6 (or 9 if you count the footswitches). Nice !!!
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 February 2012, 03:00:50 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:38:54 »
Quote from: sordna;515913
On the right, 4+7 produces Escape (not sure what you mean by (Esc 1 2) and is remappable without interfering with the regular Escape,

It produced a "12" in a text editor I have open, and on a keyboard viewer, "ESC", "1", "2" would all get highlighted. This is on a 30,xxx series keyboard.

2 more extra keys....I'm thinking there are more than will ever be needed.

The one nice find on the older board is the "command" (as it showed on the keyboard viewer) if it actually sends that signal, or, I guess a "windows" key. Either way it available without going  into the 2nd layer.
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:42:14 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:48:45 »
Since you remapped it successfullay in your 30k series, it's no bother that it does ESC-1-2 by default.
Anyway, good job mate, we've been making great progress recently!

Hey, it's time you started adding more keys and take advantage of the spare matrix spots we found. Extra keys (especially thumb keys) are GREAT!
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:59:25 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:49:37 »
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Maybe now with all the 'extra' keys, I can go back to my idea of using Mousekeys and remapping for dedicated mouse clicking switches just below the thumb cluster.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 02:54:29 »
Sounds neat, and with 6 spare spots, you can have those 3 keys I see in the picture on both sides, with every single key individually remapabble. And the keys under the shifts go to FS2 for momentary keypad access. Slam dunk!
PS. The extra thumb keys will need diodes; I'll add them along with header pins on the front edge of the main PCB sometime.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 03:02:50 »
Diodes, yes.

I was trying to remember when I did the keypad shift from the foot switch/power block....there may be surface mount diodes or something somewhere to address ghosting. I never had an issue and I used the switches very often for doing heavy 10-key for about 2 months.

My original idea was for the Trackpoint in the right keywell, and the 2 or 3 mouse keyswitches under the left thumb cluster. Trying to keep hands on the home row. Now can use o-rings for low-travel mouse key switches.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 03:05:53 »
For mouse switches I'd use cherry blues.

Hmm, I went back to the logs and actually you are right, I get ESC 1 2 in my Advantage LF. In fact it's Escape held down, followed by press and release of 1, followed by press and release of 2, followed by release of Escape. Sounds like some kind of macro to me.
I wish I tested the remapping more carefully, I can't tell if I got a single letter or multiple letters emitted when I remapped that key to a letter.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 03:22:50 »
I got a single letter.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 03:45:47 »
Ok, then it remaps cleanly... needs more testing to make sure it behaves properly, I guess I'll do that as soon as I have time to glue and solder more 2 more pairs of header pins. Then I can simply move one of the new keys connectors over.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #69 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 21:26:43 »
Cherry blue with o-rings to limit the key travel....that sounds like a good idea if using a key switch mouse key works well. I don't know what would be better.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #70 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 22:12:45 »
Mouse buttons gotta click!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 24 February 2012, 11:46:43 »
Here's a nice button for a palm key, the Seimitsu PS-15: arcade button with comfy domed plunger and low profile underside, so it should fit in the rather shallow palmrest area. Cherry switches are too much hassle to mount anyway; a panel mount arcade button key is a 30 minute mod. Thinking of making a right palm key do momentary keypad shift (eg for one handed mousekeys mousing) and the left would do Shift.
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 September 2012, 12:15:39 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Icarium

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #72 on: Sat, 25 February 2012, 16:27:27 »
Ooohhh...that would be awesome! Do it now! I was thinking about making a little cherry matrix and putting it under the palm rest pads but I'm currently too busy trying to figure out the electronics part of a trackpoint mod....
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 25 February 2012, 17:36:38 »
What trackpoint? Laptop or desktop or-? Pics?

Hopefully the button feels precise, not too much slop :(
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 February 2012, 17:42:03 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 25 February 2012, 17:45:53 »
Quote from: Icarium;525912
Ooohhh...that would be awesome! Do it now!

I will, some buttons are on their way to me.

BTW for trackpoint on kinesis discussions, post followup info here!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Icarium

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #75 on: Sat, 25 February 2012, 18:18:46 »
Quote from: input nirvana;525995
What trackpoint? Laptop or desktop or-? Pics?

Hopefully the button feels precise, not too much slop :(

I've got a few from old IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads...
I had a sig once but it's gone. It used to display an icon of a Kinesis. Just imagine that.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 26 February 2012, 20:24:04 »
As I think about it more, I don't believe any 'slop' in the arcade button (if there is any) would be much of an issue at all. So I retract my earlier concern :)

Since you've used your added keys for a while, do you have any thoughts/preferences on key type/slope in the different positions? (ie: R1, R2, R3...)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 26 February 2012, 20:39:42 »
Well, under the shifts I used domed keys, so they are bottom-row profile which is fine of course. For the ones near the middle of the keyboard, I used numrow size keys, to match the Home and PgUp keys they are next to. For the extra thumbkeys that are closer to the hands (next to the Backspace and Enter) I currently use an extra tall pair (ctrl/alt) from another contoured keyboard, because they are otherwise hard to hit since I placed them between the 1st/2nd thumb knuckles rather than under a knuckle. I will improve that positioning on other keyboards I modify.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline glitchathon

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 01:23:05 »
Hey sordna
Rather than hijack the keypoard thread...
- the 3d model is no problem. Machine shops like iges or stp files as they import into their program.
- as far as i can see the verticals are 1.25x, same as the shift and tab so i will use the right spacing.
- ok i misunderstood one thing. You want to mount into the same mounting holes inside the chassis? I think the only way this will work easily is if this is placed over the keywell area. First of all, a flat piece takes up more room then the curved keys... Imagine pulling the kinesis straight... It will elongate at the standard .75" 1x spacing. I think the only way for this straight flat piece to work and fit well and get that thumb key is to just place it over the keywell area and use adhesives of sorts. It would be even easier to cover the f keys and remap them. This way a metal piece has more area to adhere to.
- when i am done i can scan it to scale and have you print it and place it over your keybd.

Edit: i reread and realized u need the f keys... Hmm it is quite hard to get a flat piece to work with this curved design. I still say to place it over the keywell area and adhere to the top plastic on the inner and near side. And then find some creative way to come up from the outer side to meet the plate and support it.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 February 2012, 01:27:46 by glitchathon »

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 01:33:38 »
I have one apart right now and am looking at it. There are a few fit/finish issues that are a bit messy with a flat keywell in the existing case. Some I can see how to work with, and a couple I can't figure what to do. This needs a careful re-think on whether to include the F-key row or not. I think it may work better adding them to the keywell plate. It seems like more work, but I think it may actually be LESS, not to mention work better.

My .02.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 01:44:14 »
Welcome to our neighborhood, glitchathon !
I realize a flat plate will have slightly bigger dimensions, so I'm willing to cut the case a bit to accommodate it, but for sure I want the plates inside the case, not on top of the keyboard. If you look at the article, you will see I've been cutting the case already to accomodate extra keys. :-) I am undecided about the rubber keys now, leaning toward leaving them alone for now, and same goes for the existing thumbswitches, and this is because I want to avoid the extra work involved.
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 September 2012, 12:19:47 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline glitchathon

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 02:35:20 »
Ah yes i realize now you are willing to hack the case up! I still am unsure how to make it fit right. But i suppose i can do a rough layout with the right features and spacing. You can then add holes easily with a drill for mounting.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 04:54:54 »
Glitchathon.

Great name :)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
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Offline glitchathon

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 13:23:17 »
thanks input nirvana:)

sordna,

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42187[/ATTACH]

is this it?

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #84 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 13:49:53 »
Haha sweet! I would need to print it and see how it fits, I think the plate to the right of the thumb key needs to be narrower though, otherwise it will hit against the thumbcluster PCB.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Pyrolistical

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #85 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 15:27:27 »
I don't get it. You are making flat key wells but keeping the key layout unchanged?  Why not line up everything and make a true matrix?

IMHO the Kinesis didn't have a true matrix only because it is concave
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 February 2012, 15:34:55 by Pyrolistical »

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #86 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 15:32:41 »
Line it up with what? The layout is unchanged (with the exception of adding 4 extra keys per side, so that the flexible keywell PCB could be used (desoldered from the old keywell). Otherwise we'd have to hand-wire the entire matrix and find those connectors and ribbons, and I'm not sure if they are easily available, any ideas?

Anyway, we could change the layout and potentially add a "wave" pattern similar to the truly ergonomic, but perhaps a more subtle one.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 February 2012, 15:37:56 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Snarfangel

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 17:03:11 »
This is an open question to anyone with an opinion. What do you think the best thumb cluster setup is? Not specifically which characters are mapped in which position, but more for the general layout of the cluster.

For example, two big buttons next to each other:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42206[/ATTACH]

Three big buttons and two smaller ones:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42207[/ATTACH]

One big button and several smaller ones:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42209[/ATTACH]

Two big buttons surrounded by several smaller ones:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42208[/ATTACH]

The latter with one of the corner buttons missing:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42210[/ATTACH]

Totally crazy number of thumb keys:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42211[/ATTACH]

Or some other configuration?

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #88 on: Wed, 29 February 2012, 17:16:13 »
I would pick 2 or 3 big buttons surrounded by several smaller ones.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline glitchathon

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 13:12:07 »
Quote from: sordna;531042
Haha sweet! I would need to print it and see how it fits, I think the plate to the right of the thumb key needs to be narrower though, otherwise it will hit against the thumbcluster PCB.

ok i will take some material out and get back to you in another day or two.

Offline glitchathon

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #90 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 18:45:36 »
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42370[/ATTACH]

here is a dwg you can print to scale and see if it is right.

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 01 March 2012, 19:28:28 »
Thanks! I'll try it out as soon as I find some time.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #92 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 02:40:34 »
Quote from: glitchathon;532583
(Attachment Link) 42370[/ATTACH]

here is a dwg you can print to scale and see if it is right.

I just printed the pdf and it came out to scale! I made a mirror image for the other side with ImageMagick:
Code: [Select]
convert sordna_custom.pdf -flop sordna_custom_flip.pdfIf I overlay the page on a regular flat keyboard, the spacing is right. On the kinesis though it appears larger than I expected; which illustrates how the bowls' curve really puts the switches close together. I should glue the printout on a piece of cardboard to try it out, maybe even mount some switches and/or keycaps on the cardboard too ... anyone else tried it?
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 September 2012, 12:45:13 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Findecanor

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #93 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 12:18:55 »
But why?

The curves in the key wells is the whole point with the Kinesis.
What did I miss?
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #94 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:01:38 »
I always wanted to try flat but angled (tented) plates on the Kinesis. I'm not sure if I will like it better, possibly not, but it's interesting and new plates is a way to securely add more keys, especially a whole extra column of keys.

Anyway, for the time being I've been busy adding palm keys:

« Last Edit: Tue, 04 September 2012, 12:35:24 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:30:09 »
Ok, ok hot shot. Don't be so nonchalant about it. More pics, internals, wiring, specs, and assessments.
Get on board the GEEK-Hack X-Press.

Damn that's hot ! ! ! !
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
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Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #96 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:38:53 »
Japanese arcade buttons, Seimitsu PS-15 ! I will be rip-o-metering them or I might use a precision scale to measure their force (how come nobody thought of that yet) ?
Anyway, didn't wire them yet :-) I'll update the wiki with Part 5 about them, when I'm done. First assesment: unobtrusive and comfy, they don't bother me at all and they are nicely rounded and smooth. I'll use them for modifiers (shift and/or keypad shift) so I can even rest my hands on them when I'm not typing. When I'm typing, their presence reminds me to avoid anchoring my hands down (which is a bad habit) and also reminds me to rotate my hands outward, reducing pronation. It's an ergonomic slam dunk!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline glitchathon

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #97 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:44:02 »
hey guys... wanted to get your thoughts on the lack of stabilizers on the Kinesis. I have never seen a Cherry pcb-mounted stabilizer up close, but I am interested in the possibility of clipping the leads and pins (if any) of a stabilizer and then double-sticking it to the PCB of the Kinesis (for the double-wide keys). After removing the pcb-mount lead/pins and filing/sanding it down, is there good flat material to stick double-sided tape to?

Offline sordna

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #98 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:47:49 »
You could use crazy or gorilla glue; I doubt double-stick tape will be good enough. I doubt even glue will be good enough when you start pulling caps.. It's probably best if you actually drill the PCB and install the stabilizers properly. You can restore any broken runs on the PCB by soldering wires.
But IMO stabilizers are not needed because it's pretty easy to hit the keys center.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline glitchathon

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Adding extra keys to your Kinesis Advantage
« Reply #99 on: Wed, 07 March 2012, 19:35:08 »
double-sided tape should work just fine (at least some of the stuff i have used in the past). if I pull a key, I am prepared to pull the stabilizers off... that is no problem.
During normal operation there is virtually nothing pulling on the stabilizer. The question remains, is there glue/tape surface on these things? I have never seen one and I was just curious if my idea was viable before i went and ordered some.