Why all the ducky hate!?

[laffindude]

how did i backpedal into that position. from the very start, i talked about cost-to-benefit and how rosewills are rebadged filcos.

also, u have yet to address my response to your statement on LED's adding a $50+ pricetag

Read the 2 parts I quoted few posts back. They are certainly not out of context.
(145+ shipping) - (100 for Rosewill +shipping) =?

[slueth]

i have lighting on all my keyboards, its called a lightbulb, and you know what? It lights other stuff in my room too without making me look like a dork.  If you want to do ur cost to benefit spiel.

[squarebox]

nothing wrong with having a little backlight when ur typin or gaming in the dark. It adds some ambience to a person's computer setup

and i also touch type, so dont bash at me about learning to type.

In the dark, the backlighting is rather distracting.
Ambience? That's kinda like ricerboys with their neons and fartcans.

It better to have a room light with a dimmer light, it's better for the eyes as well.
Also +1 for le sexy time.

Not bashing, I'm just stating the stereotype...

[HeavyArms]

The back-lighting defense is awesome. No such thing as to much ambiance.
This argument reminds me of the want to be "tuners" on the streets with their 99 civics who throw 100 stickers on their car, and expect it to go faster.

[flyball]

dumb thread. people dont like duckies because they dont read the wiki. see that one guy who complains about cherry stabilizers.

[CaiSter21]

Read the 2 parts I quoted few posts back. They are certainly not out of context.
(145+ shipping) - (100 for Rosewill +shipping) =?

I never said that duckys were better than rosewills in terms of cost-to-benefit. I simply stated that a lot of keyboards are better than Filcos when taking price into consideration. Are Rosewills better than Ducky shines when comparing cost? Yes

i have lighting on all my keyboards, its called a lightbulb, and you know what? It lights other stuff in my room too without making me look like a dork.  If you want to do ur cost to benefit spiel.

fine, backlit keys arent as good as filcos when comparing prices. but wat about rosewills, cm, and leopolds?
They are not backlit and cost way less.

I still don't get why people fail to look at prices when comparing keyboards. How does a $40-$50 increase in price justify a small increase in build quality?

[laffindude]

I don't understand people paying 50 bucks more for backlit keyboard.

[flyball]

I don't understand people paying 50 bucks more for backlit keyboard.

same, but people who pay $50 more for nothing at all

[CaiSter21]

dumb thread. people dont like duckies because they dont read the wiki. see that one guy who complains about cherry stabilizers.

yeah, i raged pretty hard when i was reading his thread. If you don't like cherry stabilizers, dont blame it on the company. You learn something about yourself and then adjust accordingly. You don't have to go on a whole rant about how a keyboard sucks just because it uses a technology that you don't like.

[squarebox]

I still don't get why people fail to look at prices when comparing keyboards. How does a $40-$50 increase in price justify a small increase in build quality?

How does one justify buying a Honda or a Lexus? Both does the same but deep down you know that the fine detail and increase in build quality makes a world of difference.

[flyball]

How does one justify buying a Honda or a Lexus? Both does the same but deep down you know that the fine detail and increase in build quality makes a world of difference.

My keyboard gets 25 MPG.

[squarebox]

yeah, i raged pretty hard when i was reading his thread. If you don't like cherry stabilizers, dont blame it on the company. You learn something about yourself and then adjust accordingly. You don't have to go on a whole rant about how a keyboard sucks just because it uses a technology that you don't like.

This is a keyboard enthusiast forums, perfection is the goal like every other enthusiast forums.

[flyball]

This is a keyboard enthusiast forums, perfection is the goal like every other enthusiast forums.

this, coming from someone who doesnt have a topre...

[CaiSter21]

That's a bad analogy because there are a lot more variations for cars than there are for keyboards.

[CaiSter21]

This is a keyboard enthusiast forums, perfection is the goal like every other enthusiast forums.

So your saying that that people's preferences do not matter...

because some people prefer cherry stabilizers over costar ones.
Therefore, can a person justifiably say that they are wrong for liking cherry stabilizers?

[squarebox]

this, coming from someone who doesnt have a topre...

Must I own a Topre to come in here?
I borrowed a Topre from a friend, I personally dont accept Topre as a mechanical keyboard due to the rubber dome.
Topre are great keyboards if you type perfectly correct and uniform weight are hard to come by.
When was the last time you contributed?

[flyball]

Must I own a Topre to come in here?
I borrowed a Topre from a friend, I personally dont accept Topre as a mechanical keyboard due to the rubber dome.
Topre are great keyboards if you type perfectly correct and uniform weight are hard to come by.
When was the last time you contributed?

if you don't have an elite keyboard, just step off..

[squarebox]

So your saying that that people's preferences do not matter...

because some people prefer cherry stabilizers over costar ones.
Therefore, can a person justifiably say that they are wrong for liking cherry stabilizers?

Personal preference is one thing but trying them side by side is whole new different thing altogether.
Just because a person is lazy, does it justify that they like cherry stabilizer?

[BossBorot]

For better or worse filco is considered the standard here, for cherry mx, despite a few design flaws/quality control issues. Therefore any difference from a filco can be used to justify the price increase or inversely to question why a filco costs more. It is up to each prospective buyer to find out what keyboard to buy and whether or not design differences are worth the extra cash. In the end every keyboard has an issue or two so it boils down to finding the right one at the right price.

Some people are going to hate whatever keyboard you decided to buy or question its value but all that matters is that you end up with a keyboard that you like for a price you are willing to pay. Trying to convince everyone that x board is better then y keyboard just leads to circular arguments with no one changing their mind at all.

Read the 2 parts I quoted few posts back. They are certainly not out of context.
(145+ shipping) - (100 for Rosewill +shipping) =?

Also newegg taxes California where as Amazon does not. This does not affect everyone but a significant number of people live in CA that are into higher end electronics. Additionally they generally start from $100 for example their brown board is $110 currently.

Even though the Rosewill uses a filco controller the pcb itself is of lower quality vs the currently shipping gen two filco boards so to simply call it a filco clone misses the point a bit as there is more to a keyboard then just the controller. Does this make a filco worth more? Well thats up to each prospective buyer to decide for themselves.

[slueth]

So your saying that that people's preferences do not matter...

because some people prefer cherry stabilizers over costar ones.
Therefore, can a person justifiably say that they are wrong for liking cherry stabilizers?

so you saying people's preferences do not matter?
just because some people prefer filco over ducky
whats wrong with liking filco?
just having fun with you CaiSter21 please do not go on anymore

[squarebox]

Some people are in denial that they made a bad choice and defending it so much so that they hope not to look stupid.
Ego and pride.

[flyball]

Some people are in denial that they made a bad choice and defending it so much so that they hope not to look stupid.
Ego and pride.

Ok.

[CaiSter21]

Must I own a Topre to come in here?
I borrowed a Topre from a friend, I personally dont accept Topre as a mechanical keyboard due to the rubber dome.
Topre are great keyboards if you type perfectly correct and uniform weight are hard to come by.
When was the last time you contributed?

You just said something that agrees with my statement. Who is to say that a type of keyboard is perfect or better than another.
Some people think Topre's are best, but you sure don't think so. Some think that Costar stabilizers are better than Cherry stabilizers, but some people don't think so. Some people think that Filco's are the best Cherry keyboards. Quality-wise: Yes. Quality and Cost: No.

Everyone has their own opinion to what is the best.
My only argument here is that Filco's are not the best keyboard when looking at prices. I am not saying that there are cherry keyboards that are better than Filco's.  If you have the extra dough to justify spending more for a Filco, fine be my guest. But for everyone else that is on a budget, we (the mechanical keyboard community) shouldn't tell them that Rosewills, CM, Duckys, or Leopolds suck and that they should only buy Filcos

[squarebox]

For the $, Ducky does suck in quality.
Leopold, Rosewill and CM are great value for money.

I understand what you are saying "Filco is a luxury."

[flyball]

For the $, Ducky does suck in quality.

Leopold, Rosewill and CM are great value for money.

So the filco isn't? It sounds like a turd then.

[slueth]

lol he was trying to say duckys sucky!

[CaiSter21]

For the $, Ducky does suck in quality.
Leopold, Rosewill and CM are great value for money.

I understand what you are saying "Filco is a luxury."

thank you! thats all i wanted to hear. Since its a luxury, we shouldn't misguide people when helping them out with keyboard purchases. If they have all the money in the world to spend on mech keyboards, then be my guest, go get a Filco. But if they are on a budget, we should recommend the other brands instead of telling them how great Filco is.

btw, just did the math and a Ducky 9008g2 brown is cheaper than a Leopold brown when shipped to San Diego where there are taxes.


Therefore, how is it a leopold better value than a dk9008g2 when it costs slightly more?

oh, i used tiger imports and elitekeyboards as my refences

[Gawkbasher]

You just said something that agrees with my statement. Who is to say that a type of keyboard is perfect or better than another.
Some people think Topre's are best, but you sure don't think so. Some think that Costar stabilizers are better than Cherry stabilizers, but some people don't think so. Some people think that Filco's are the best Cherry keyboards. Quality-wise: Yes. Quality and Cost: No.

Everyone has their own opinion to what is the best.
My only argument here is that Filco's are not the best keyboard when looking at prices. I am not saying that there are cherry keyboards that are better than Filco's.  If you have the extra dough to justify spending more for a Filco, fine be my guest. But for everyone else that is on a budget, we (the mechanical keyboard community) shouldn't tell them that Rosewills, CM, Duckys, or Leopolds suck and that they should only buy Filcos

I don't think that the's saying Topres are best or not but that he doesn't accept them as a mechanical keyboard.  squarebox did say they were great keyboards but is pointing out that it's an apples-to-oranges comparison.

If you're talking about the differences between designs of wire metal stabilizers though, there are measurable, comparable qualities between both and there is a very good argument out there that Cherry stabilizers kinda suck.

[flyball]

If you're talking about the differences between designs of wire metal stabilizers though, there are measurable, comparable qualities between both and there is a very good argument out there that Cherry stabilizers kinda suck.

you don't understand the difference between subjective and objective. ok.

[CaiSter21]

I wonder where the OP went? it seems like i took over his thread....

[Kamikaze K]

I have no idea why there have been an increased amount of hate for Ducky boards...  Filco's are nice but they are also plagued with misaligned keys as well. One well documented case was the up arrow on their TKL boards which I'm an owner of... the arrow is so misaligned that it nearly touches the right side of the arrow casing.  Though the misalignment is quite bad I don't think it really warrants major action, it's something I can definitely live with.  It quite interesting to see that fanboy's tend to be the same no matter what product they supporting be it Sporting teams, Gaming consoles or Keyboards...  Leopold's also use Cherry stabiliser but you don't see any threads saying "Wow Leopolds Suck!".  I for one am very happy with my Ducky board and it sits proudly next to the rest of my mech'board collection.

I wonder where the OP went? it seems like i took over his thread....

Probably watching and chuckling about the heated debate he/she started!

[pitashen]

I wonder where the OP went? it seems like i took over his thread....

OP stated that he sold his ducky to his friend and was done with the topic.

[Gawkbasher]

you don't understand the difference between subjective and objective. ok.

Actually, I do and quite well.  The problem is that people take objective reasoning problems and give them subjective treatment because people will get offended.  Mechanical parts are always something that are engineered that way and thus fully subjectable to objective reasoning.  You can then sometimes pinpoint where the designers made subjective choices for their product.

Music is another one that can be analyzed objectively but people don't.  Most people just agree to be subjective about it because they are very poorly educated about music but when you hear people talk about weak or strong harmony, they're applying objective reasoning.

I won't mention the other big one here because that will offend people for sure and get me banned.

[pitashen]

I don't think that the's saying Topres are best or not but that he doesn't accept them as a mechanical keyboard.  squarebox did say they were great keyboards but is pointing out that it's an apples-to-oranges comparison.

If you're talking about the differences between designs of wire metal stabilizers though, there are measurable, comparable qualities between both and there is a very good argument out there that Cherry stabilizers kinda suck.

To me, any one sided arguments regarding to the stabilizer are considered bad arguments. I for one find them both likable and would not mind using either one of them. I do like cherry style slightly more coz I like how I can remove and reinstall keys with ease.

[flyball]

Actually, I do and quite well.  The problem is that people take objective reasoning problems and give them subjective treatment because people will get offended.  Mechanical parts are always something that are engineered that way and thus fully subjectable to objective reasoning.  You can then sometimes pinpoint where the designers made subjective choices for their product.

Music is another one that can be analyzed objectively but people don't.  Most people just agree to be subjective about it because they are very poorly educated about music but when you hear people talk about weak or strong harmony, they're applying objective reasoning.

I won't mention the other big one here because that will offend people for sure and get me banned.

some people like cherry stabilizers. some people like costar stabilizers. sounds subjective to me.

[CaiSter21]

To me, any one sided arguments regarding to the stabilizer are considered bad arguments. I for one find them both likable and would not mind using either one of them. I do like cherry style slightly more coz I like how I can remove and reinstall keys with ease.

+1
costar stabilizers have the benefit of "feeling better" while cherry stabilizers have the benefit of being easier to remove. Take that to your objective vs subjective argument Gawkbasher!

[squarebox]

thank you! thats all i wanted to hear. Since its a luxury, we shouldn't misguide people when helping them out with keyboard purchases. If they have all the money in the world to spend on mech keyboards, then be my guest, go get a Filco. But if they are on a budget, we should recommend the other brands instead of telling them how great Filco is.

btw, just did the math and a Ducky 9008g2 brown is cheaper than a Leopold brown when shipped to San Diego where there are taxes.


Therefore, how is it a leopold better value than a dk9008g2 when it costs slightly more?

oh, i used tiger imports and elitekeyboards as my refences

Filco are not the only brand that is heavily recommend here. If a TS were to state small budget, you will see WASDkeyboard, rosewill and CM being recommended.
Often "help me choose my keyboard" thread do not state a budget, naturally Filco will heavily recommended.
$40 is a rather small price to pay for luxury considering that average rubber dome keyboard only cost $5 and gaming rubber domes can cost $129.
Over-priced or Luxury? Up to you decide.

Overall QC of the Leopold is better.

Some examples:
- Leopold allowance for you to connect the mini-usb is more spacious compared to Ducky. (I have small hands)
- Leopold cable guide is more well thought through than Ducky cable guide which will damage the cable.

[Gawkbasher]

Personally the jury is out for me for cherry vs costar, but to say that there is merely a subjective difference between the two shows either poor reasoning or a lack of it altogether.

It is possible to allow a subjective choice to outweigh an objective one, but to say there is no objective test between the two is really bogus.

[flyball]

Personally the jury is out for me for cherry vs costar, but to say that there is merely a subjective difference between the two shows either poor reasoning or a lack of it altogether.

It is possible to allow a subjective choice to outweigh an objective one, but to say there is no objective test between the two is really bogus.

people like both of them.

[Gawkbasher]

people like both of them.

People like Nickelback, that doesn't mean that they're not objectively terrible.

[flyball]

People like Nickelback, that doesn't mean that they're not objectively terrible.

we are talking about keyboards.

[CaiSter21]

they are subjectively terrible.

something can only be objectively bad if it has a fault that strays from the norm.

[Gawkbasher]

we are talking about keyboards.

Actually this back-and-forth we're having is about logic/reasoning.  Keyboards are incidental.  You called me out saying my logic was poor, when in fact it's yours that has a problem.
 
But I'm not a fan of shouting anyway, I'll default to squarebox's comment to you.

[flyball]

looks like i win. great thread, everybody.

[CaiSter21]

how do u win, your saying that a person's preference can be objectified. how is that even close to sounding logical.

[pitashen]

Guys, time to move on. This is getting stupid. OP has made up his mind and doesn't even give a crap about this thread anymore.

[CaiSter21]

i was going to, but then gawkbasher came along with his objective vs subjective crap.

[Gawkbasher]

Don't pin that crap on me.  That was exactly the issue squarebox was having with flyball (note the honda vs lexus comment).  Flyball has been inflammatory the last three-odd pages now and unfortunately I got trolled after squarebox gave up.  

All I was acknowleding in my post earlier was that I can see the argument that some people have about about Cherry stabilizers.

[daniel0731ex]

DK9008 Shine are retailed for roughly $120 in Taiwan.

Looking at the Taiwanese forum, there are indeed quite a few complaints regarding Ducky's quality.
Interestingly though, most of the reports emphasized a lot more on how good Ducky's customer service and return policy is, rather than on the item's problem.

The community seems to unanimously favor Ducky unanimously for first-time buyers.
There also seem to be some form of Topre worship going on there.


Looks like Ducky is using a similar strategy as Hyundai for their products.




Regarding the Filco comparison, I do think the Ducky is a better deal for people with budget concerns. Sure, the quality may not match that of luxury items like Filco, but it is good enough that the performance itself isn't affected. Also, having backlightning, NKRO, repeat rate setting, and winkey lock, the usefulness of these gadgets aside, I think this is already attractive enough to be a no-brainer for first-time buyers. Of course, there is no way the Ducky could beat the no-frills, simple elegance of high-quality Filco, but at this price range, I think features like these that are actually usefu are more important as long as the quality is reliably adequet.

[shogrran]

Well I am part of a few that still don't understand the hate for Ducky. And take note... I don't own a ducky.

Here are a few of my reasons for it. One; you get what you pay for. The ducky 1008 green/black alps version is just 58USD here. Even the price of the ducky shine is cheaper by a lot compared to back-lit Razer keyboards or non back lit steelseries keyboards. It is the cheapest mechanical switch keyboard here by far. Even cheaper than Razer rubber domes by a huge percentage. STILL I will prefer it over getting another rubber dome, even if the rubber dome is high quality.

If there are factory or quality imperfections like the misaligned cover to the switches I'll return it and swap for another. If there are however imperfections that are not covered by warranty like for example it feels like the cheap plastic from toys or the over all aesthetics isn't good. Then it is what you get for that price point. I'm thinking of an analogy - you can't expect to get double-shot keycaps for the price of just simple abs plastic.

The ducky with back lights is cheaper still compared to other back-lit mechanical keyboards that go for 140USD which is a good deal for some specially those first time mechanical keyboard buyers and people with tight budget. I know most argue poor quality but you should actually thank them for being one more player in the keyboard brands market. More players means more competition. More competition means prices are held down.  

In summary I don't see a reason for people to hate the ducky. If you don't like it then go get yourself one of those expensive filco's (140USD here and that's without the bling backlights) or other boards. Don't expect to get more for your money's worth because that doesn't how the world works right now. If you pay cheap then don't expect a filco quality board.

 (all prices are approximate and based on prices in my country)


EDIT: One more thing... if all I am after is the feel of a good quality switch then I'd get a ducky. Although I care about aesthetics I don't care about it as much that I am willing to pay another 20USD just because the finish of the keyboard chasis is like the cmstorm quickfire. Cherry mx reds are cherry mx reds... whatever the board. It's not as if they put the escape key in the middle of the numpad and the enter key in the scroll button position.