Author Topic: Group Buy Economics  (Read 15994 times)

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Offline Lpb45

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Group Buy Economics
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:16:11 »
Listen, if the problem is that big of a deal for you,  make your own group buy???  Hmmmm???  If you dont want to do that obviously it isnt worth saving that extra 17 dollars?  Oh thats right you want someone else to do it for you and do it the way you want.  What the **** happened to this country.
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #51 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:19:06 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520167
Listen, if the problem is that big of a deal for you,  make your own group buy???  Hmmmm???  If you dont want to do that obviously it isnt worth saving that extra 17 dollars?  Oh thats right you want someone else to do it for you and do it the way you want.  What the **** happened to this country.

Listen son, you need to chill out.  OP has made it clear that he has no beef with how anyone is running the buys.  He just wanted to have a discussion, which is what we're having.

Offline fstop

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« Reply #52 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:19:54 »
All this discussion is just trying to help improve group buys. We're not pointing any blame to any specific user and how they run their GB, nor are we saying we could do a better job at it then they are. We're simply speculating in order to see if there are more efficient alternatives.

No need for any hard feelings.
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #53 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:23:32 »
That is a very very extreme case as you've said. Realistically there are a some who will get the kit regardless of availability of the addon and also I think the person running the GB would have sense to have the addon kits.

I want to raise my very own question and want to see how people feel.

Say I'm running a GB

50 Sets @ $30/set
75 Sets @ $25/set

At 63 sets, it is actually cheaper to get 75 kits than 63 kits. What should happen to the 12 kits remaining? It can't be split evenly between the buyers and the OP is not able to pay for them as he doesn't have enough money. It would be silly not to get 75 kits, but what should happen to those remaining 12 kits?

Does the buyer profit the 12 kits? He can't afford to spread the money back to the people as a discount as he can't afford it at the moment. What do?
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:28:46 by hazeluff »
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Offline lightsout714

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« Reply #54 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:25:18 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520139
Honestly if $17 USD is that big of a deal to you,  I would suggest a cheaper hobby.  I saw a couple people bring up R4 which I am guessing is having pricing problems because it has ALOT of stuff in it meaning there isnt alot of any one thing being bought which is exactly how R3 went (which a bunch of us complained about, but in the end its 7bits buy and he can do what he wants).  At this point I would just be happy we have this many group buys,  A couple years ago it was near impossible to find a filco, leopold or 87U and we had no CM's or black widows.

Wth is your problem. Again in and of itself 17 bucks is not a lot. But add it to every group buy and it is. Flaming people is not helping this discussion. My viewpoint has been I like the gb ran just like it is. So how is that trying to make it how I want it or whatever you said.

Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #55 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:31:50 »
Quote from: lightsout714;520153
I am very happy with all these group buys. BUt we don't all have endless supplies of money to throw around. And I want to get in on as many of these as possible, so 17 here, 10 here, 5 here can make a difference.

Here is your answer earlier.  So since you are broke/cheap you want people to change a system that works very well and we are all lucky to have these people doing.  Who says flaming anymore anyways lmao.  Another guy in this thread is comparing the GB's to buying a value meal at Mcdonald's.
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Offline KylJoy

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« Reply #56 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:32:18 »
Quote from: hazeluff;520182
...What do?

Great question!  That's what I'm trying to find out.  :)

Offline mickd

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« Reply #57 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:33:46 »
Quote from: hazeluff;520182

Does the buyer profit the 12 kits? He can't afford to spread the money back to the people as a discount as he can't afford it at the moment. What do?


Is this assuming the 63 sets that were bought are being invoiced at $25 each? <- That should be something that every group buy does when it reaches the actual price breaks (not the ones that SP set).

In regards to the extra 12 kits, now that's a harder question which I have no answer for. The easiest solution would be to let the organiser's pocket that for their time.

EDIT: It would be best if the organisers would be willing to sell those extra sets back to the community (if anyone missed the group buy) at the prices they were going for. These sets are all extras any ways. But I do understand that in a lot of cases they would want to add a premium (and that is of course, their right to).
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:36:41 by mickd »

Offline lightsout714

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« Reply #58 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:34:37 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520211
Here is your answer earlier.  So since you are broke/cheap you want people to change a system that works very well and we are all lucky to have these people doing.  Who says flaming anymore anyways lmao.  Another guy in this thread is comparing the GB's to buying a value meal at Mcdonald's.

When did I say I wanted anything changed???  I want it just as it is now, the option to but an 87pc base kit if thats all I want. You are misunderstood.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #59 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:36:29 »
Quote from: mickd;520218
Is this assuming the 63 sets that were bought are being invoiced at $25 each? <- That should be something that every group buy does when it reaches the actual price breaks (not the ones that SP set).

In regards to the extra 12 kits, now that's a harder question which I have no answer for. The easiest solution would be to let the organiser's pocket that for their time.

Yes we buy 75 @ $25/set as 63 @ $30/set is the same price we pay to SP. Its more expensive to by buying at the lower price after 63 sets.

Also Lpb45, calm down bro. Noone's whining here, noone's flaming each other here. Theres no need to go all on the offensive mate. We're trying to be constructive about how GBs are run. Voice your opinion, but theres no need to go after people who think otherwise.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:40:55 by hazeluff »
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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #60 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:39:49 »
Quote from: lightsout714;519923
This. I myself want the kit that suits me.  This is expensive hobby as is. I'm all about community but don't feel it's my duty to buy useless things so others can get a discount.


Right here.  Should I go on?
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Offline mkawa

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« Reply #61 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:39:56 »
Quote from: hazeluff;520182
I want to raise my very own question and want to see how people feel.

Say I'm running a GB

50 Sets @ $30/set
75 Sets @ $25/set

At 63 sets, it is actually cheaper to get 75 kits than 63 kits. What should happen to the 12 kits remaining? It can't be split evenly between the buyers and the OP is not able to pay for them as he doesn't have enough money. It would be silly not to get 75 kits, but what should happen to those remaining 12 kits?

Does the buyer profit the 12 kits? He can't afford to spread the money back to the people as a discount as he can't afford it at the moment. What do?
well, this is the whole issue with group buys -- ultimately what you're actually doing when you run one is reselling product that has a long lead time. because this is an enthusiast community, buyers are tolerant and sellers try not to go full-on profiteer, but this is the only reasonable way to think about the monetary exchange involved. i pay you, hazeluff, and you guarantee that subject to manufacturing schedules, you will get me some product at some point. in some sense the payment is kind of like a bridge loan that i'm extending to you so that i can get my bizarre niche product that no one else wants. in exchange, you assume the risk and responsibility of being this product's reseller.

when you look at it this way you realize that you can do any of the above, as long as it's clear at the beginning of the transaction what the terms of the transaction are. if i give you 30$ for exactly one set of caps, and then you deliver me that set of caps, i'm happy, and i have no reason to complain, since those were the terms we both agreed to. if you then make money over that, that's fine -- i didn't agree to a share of any profits. if instead you promise to chip in and share profits, then you have to make good on that. again, since you're assuming the risk and responsibility you can set what terms you want a priori, as i can always decide to based on terms whether to advance you my cash.

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Offline KylJoy

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« Reply #62 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:42:02 »
What he said...

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #63 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:45:36 »
Quote from: mkawa;520235
well, this is the whole issue with group buys -- ultimately what you're actually doing when you run one is reselling product that has a long lead time. because this is an enthusiast community, buyers are tolerant and sellers try not to go full-on profiteer, but this is the only reasonable way to think about the monetary exchange involved. i pay you, hazeluff, and you guarantee that subject to manufacturing schedules, you will get me some product at some point. in some sense the payment is kind of like a bridge loan that i'm extending to you so that i can get my bizarre niche product that no one else wants. in exchange, you assume the risk and responsibility of being this product's reseller.

when you look at it this way you realize that you can do any of the above, as long as it's clear at the beginning of the transaction what the terms of the transaction are. if i give you 30$ for exactly one set of caps, and then you deliver me that set of caps, i'm happy, and i have no reason to complain, since those were the terms we both agreed to. if you then make money over that, that's fine -- i didn't agree to a share of any profits. if instead you promise to chip in and share profits, then you have to make good on that. again, since you're assuming the risk and responsibility you can set what terms you want a priori, as i can always decide to based on terms whether to advance you my cash.

I've never seen it this way. But if you think about it, the "seller" assumes low/no risk as he is not putting any money on the line. Just the responsibility of getting what people want.

I've always seen this from the side of it's a group buy, the "seller" is just organizing and piecing everything together. He isn't actually "selling", just organizing. He is assuming a role to help the community (which I think is the way to think about it). I guess he should have some "pay" since he did put in the effort and time. But the 12 kits in this hypothetical situation is $300 and I don't think I'm exaggerating compared with a real life situation (I did however take the extreme of 12 kits left over, IRL it could be anywhere from 0-12, given this specific number of sets).
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Offline mkawa

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« Reply #64 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:47:54 »
no, the seller is assuming worst-case risk appx equal to the total monetary size of the group buy, since buyers can demand their money back at any time and leave him with product that no one else in the world particularly wants.

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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #65 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:48:33 »
If you think the organizer isnt taking any risk your nuts.  Ask the couple people who have had their banks accounts locked because of "suspicious" activity on paypal.
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Offline metafour

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« Reply #66 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:49:52 »
:pop2:

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #67 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:50:03 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520250
If you think the organizer isnt taking any risk your nuts.  Ask the couple people who have had their banks accounts locked because of "suspicious" activity on paypal.

That's an odd case. I mean risks in the sense of a business. Tho you could argue that paypal thing was a "risk"

Quote from: mkawa;520247
no, the seller is assuming worst-case risk appx equal to the total monetary size of the group buy, since buyers can demand their money back at any time and leave him with product that no one else in the world particularly wants.

Ahh, but the "seller" in the case of GH GBs is always collecting money first (since he himself can't buy all the sets himself). It's a group buy situation, we are collecting money and then distributing keys.
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Offline reaper

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« Reply #68 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:50:31 »
This is why you don't see me participate in all the group buys.  If you don't agree with the group buy's organizer (or his/her principle) then just don't buy it. lol  It isn't the end of the world if you don't own certain keycaps. =P
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Offline mkawa

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« Reply #69 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:53:11 »
what if the manufacturer doesn't deliver on-time or at all? what if enough buyers decide to pull out at the last minute that the manufacturer wants to change the pricing on everyone? every single what-if you can think of and then some you won't think of that could happen anyway and screw you over is a risk.

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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #70 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:53:45 »
Quote from: reaper;520257
This is why you don't see me participate in all the group buys.  If you don't agree with the group buy's organizer (or his/her principles) then just don't buy it. lol  It isn't the end of the world if you don't own certain keycaps. =P

And this is the right attitude, if the price isn't right or you don't like the way its run don't join in,  or make your own group buy.  Completely agree.
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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #71 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:54:26 »
Quote from: hazeluff;520256
That's an odd case. I mean risks in the sense of a business. Tho you could argue that paypal thing was a "risk"



Ahh, but the "seller" in the case of GH GBs is always collecting money first (since he himself can't buy all the sets himself). It's a group buy situation, we are collecting money and then distributing keys.

It may be odd but it has happened multiple times here on GH.
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #72 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:56:58 »
Quote from: mkawa;520260
what if the manufacturer doesn't deliver on-time or at all? what if enough buyers decide to pull out at the last minute that the manufacturer wants to change the pricing on everyone? every single what-if you can think of and then some you won't think of that could happen anyway and screw you over is a risk.

I'd say tho stuff is on the low-very low risk side (high damages tho for some cases).
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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #73 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:59:05 »
low risk is still risk....
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #74 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:59:08 »
Quote from: mkawa;520260
what if the manufacturer doesn't deliver on-time or at all? what if enough buyers decide to pull out at the last minute that the manufacturer wants to change the pricing on everyone? every single what-if you can think of and then some you won't think of that could happen anyway and screw you over is a risk.

My biggest fear as a group buy organizer is lost and damaged mail.

Offline lightsout714

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« Reply #75 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 22:59:31 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520234
Right here.  Should I go on?

I guess you missed the fact that I prefer the way they are ran now. So that doesn't sound like me wanting things changed to benefit me.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #76 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:00:43 »
Quote from: hashbaz;520275
My biggest fear as a group buy organizer is lost and damaged mail.

That's probably a big one. Common and pretty **** to deal with.

So I'm going with the "seller" keeps extras to cover any risks/damages.
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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #77 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:02:24 »
Quote from: lightsout714;520277
I guess you missed the fact that I prefer the way they are ran now. So that doesn't sound like me wanting things changed to benefit me.

The reason I am so outspoken right now about this is because it worries me that this will start showing up in GB threads and will spread to other things people think should be in the GB's (or what ripster just pointed out, people will start complaining the shipping is too pricey) to the point of where the few good organizers we have will say "why am I even doing this?" and pack up shop.  We are pretty lucky to have the GB's we do right now
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #78 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:03:37 »
Quote from: ripster;520282
I don't know why people get so upset about some pieces of plastic:
(Attachment Link) 41246[/ATTACH]

Thats what they said about the one ring.
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #79 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:07:29 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520284
The reason I am so outspoken right now about this is because it worries me that this will start showing up in GB threads and will spread to other things people think should be in the GB's (or what ripster just pointed out, people will start complaining the shipping is too pricey) to the point of where the few good organizers we have will say "why am I even doing this?" and pack up shop.  We are pretty lucky to have the GB's we do right now

I think the GB organizers know to filter out that rubbish people sprout out and just run it the way they have always run it. I hope, like you do, is people don't follow one person's selfish requests.
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Offline mickd

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« Reply #80 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:16:25 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520284
The reason I am so outspoken right now about this is because it worries me that this will start showing up in GB threads and will spread to other things people think should be in the GB's (or what ripster just pointed out, people will start complaining the shipping is too pricey) to the point of where the few good organizers we have will say "why am I even doing this?" and pack up shop.  We are pretty lucky to have the GB's we do right now

This thread should also help prevent that as people now have an outlet for them to voice their opinion about this stuff. That said, you're right (and I'm sure) we'll get people talking about this stuff in actual GB threads regardless.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #81 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:19:36 »
Anyway I'm off to bed (I sadi this about an hour ago somewhere else).

Hope everyone can keep it civil. It's a discussion not a flame war. = ) There's some actual good content in this thread.

I think everytime someone whines about a way a GB is run, we link this thread.
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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #82 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:26:59 »
Off to bed as well.
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Offline lightsout714

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« Reply #83 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 23:27:48 »
Quote from: Lpb45;520284
The reason I am so outspoken right now about this is because it worries me that this will start showing up in GB threads and will spread to other things people think should be in the GB's (or what ripster just pointed out, people will start complaining the shipping is too pricey) to the point of where the few good organizers we have will say "why am I even doing this?" and pack up shop.  We are pretty lucky to have the GB's we do right now

I agree with this and want to clarify I love the group buys and am very grateful for them. I do prefer to have the choice of buying a tkl set or a full etc. But I am fine with the person running it to come to the final decision.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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« Reply #84 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 01:13:41 »
A lot of good points have been raised in this thread. I have only run 2 buys so far, starting my third potentially and it has been a learn as I go process. I took cues from what I read from those that came before me, and did my best to cater to as many as possible while still keeping within reason and being as fair as I can. Compromises are made, and/or executive decisions are laid down or it will die. You will never be able to make everyone happy, your buy is what it is.
It is VERY hard and a lot of work to come up with something that will be successful, that is widely appealing enough to make it viable and see it through all the way. There are very many boards to account for, but you have to make compromise and go for the majority market, and know what that market is. Majority rules, and that is the way it is and always will be with these custom caps. At the same time you need to keep an 'iron grip' as it were, to keep the outspoken minority from running away with your buy. This is a tricky balance to keep in sight. Pricing can be unusual, and not as expected, but that is another matter entirely for the most part due to SP having a monopoly more or less. Sometimes things do not add up, and will not due to the way SP does their business. Unfortunately there seems to be no alternatives presently.

Slightly off topic, but very related in my opinion from my last buy thread, is I would like to participate coming up with some general Gh GB rules, to lessen the variance from the way individuals run their buys. If there was a set protocol to be followed on both the organizer and buyer sides, I feel things would generally run a LOT smoother and make everyone more comfortable knowing what they are dealing with. I know I do not have all the answers, but I believe some general ground rules would be very constructive and beneficial to everyone involved. Sure there will still be some levels of trust and risk involved, but making things more uniform I believe will help a great deal.

Offline RColinTaylor

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« Reply #85 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 02:30:18 »
I have been pretty silent about the whole group buy process since the incident with the Novelty buy but I think that I can offer some sort of insight on how all of this works out to be sketchy and yet stable at the same time. First, let me respond to a few quotes I found noteworthy.

Quote from: Lpb45;520250
If you think the organizer isnt taking any risk your nuts.  Ask the couple people who have had their banks accounts locked because of "suspicious" activity on paypal.


While a lot of people may have dismissed what Lpb45 was trying to say this one hit home the hardest for me. Saving the story for later what I can say is that as a result of Paypal not liking me I lost the $70 I made from selling a handful of SC2 caps in October, I cannot use Paypal ever again in any way, and I had to get a new debit card (two because my bank misunderstood what I meant by a new number) in order to buy my new Leopold. What this means, for the misinformed, is that I cannot pay for or be payed for things using Paypal and in turn I do not have the capacity to create, run, or buy from group buys unless I have a proxy handle the payment for me (which he has done in the past and is a good friend of mine) or pay in cash (which I have the capacity to do with Rag). Furthermore, I was forced to back out of a buy I found to be rather awesome in the form of Hashbaz's RGB kit. These buys can be dangerous and at the blink of an eye all of the hard work put for them can vanish. Luckily for my buy Tsangan was there to sweep it off its feet and make it happen smoothly, regardless of the bumps faced by the 120+ buyers who had already paid me.

Quote from: reaper;520257
This is why you don't see me participate in all the group buys.  If you don't agree with the group buy's organizer (or his/her principle) then just don't buy it. lol  It isn't the end of the world if you don't own certain keycaps. =P


I read the group buy section about twenty times a day and every time I find a new post I evaluate the organizer. If they are not a prominent community member, if their structure is shotty or full of gaps, or if I just don't like their signature, I dismiss the post entirely. While I may want the product, I may NEED the product, it is necessary to walk away if it feels like a back alley deal.


Now, on to what I feel I can contribute to this discussion.

At the end of October 2011 I followed Rag in making a group buy but this time I took the keys that were in GB4 (People thought I would never have it done before they shipped in that buy) and create a moderately structured buy with loose ends for more keys and options. At the beginning there were about 15 options, including the StarWars keys that were later thrown out for copyright reasons, and reception was somewhat spotty. When the order post was put up the prices were $2 a piece for any cap and in the first week we had about ~300 key orders overall.

From this point I began looking at the SP pricing structure and decided that if the prices were flexible based on count and if I were diligent enough there could be rapid decreases in the prices of the most popular keys. This model, for the most part, started off slow until about the end of the second week when there were a few notable orders that were more confidence orders than anything. With these the prices of the Awesome faces and LoD fell to under $1.50 and the week later most of the keys were at the $1.50 mark with the best 1x keys being $.80. By the end of the buy this structure had everything popular down to $.41. What this meant, however, was that any profit I could make from this buy would become down to zero for the overhead and down to whatever I could make for the extras I bought on resale.

This, of course, was a judgement call. It is the job of the organizer to make these decisions to see the buy succeed. From what I recall the Novelty Group Buy ended up being the largest single order for novelty/single keys in the history of GH's group buy system because of the pricing structure; low prices brought on more orders and it snowballed because of SP's awesome price system.

Now,  obviously, I was not the final figurehead doing the Novelty Buy because at the time of the money collection, three days after the invoices were sent out in fact, my Paypal became locked by the company and the dispute which followed forced me to do a reversal of all money collections. With this I was forced to pay all of the Paypal fees back, lose my Paypal account, and lose access to Paypal's instant pay services. My existence as a group buy organizer ended because of this and I promptly had to back out of several buys I was partaking in.

Therefore, I look at Group Buys a little differently than people. The organizer takes the risks to make a buy, and make it run smoothly, and in turn makes decisions on what will benefit them the most. Some take direct profit, others draw profit from free keys, and the special breed do it for the love of keyboards. There is no one rule of thumb which can and must apply to Group Buys because they are not a store, a corporation, or a foundation. They are, in the end, one or multiple people sticking their necks out there to do something amazing.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Group Buy Economics
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 02:52:37 »
What I learned about paypal, and why they lock accounts... well lots of reasons... basically ANY reason. To be more specific the big 2 are, a large flood of 'gifts', and or a large amount of merchandise that is not marked shipped within 1 week, which seems to be the BIG one. Don't do these things. I did not collect anywhere near the amount you did in my last buy, but a healthy mix of gift and merch, with me marking them as shipped immediately and hoping those people don't f*ck me and file disputes... and so far no hassles from paypal. My first buy i got some warnings... and ever since I have had all payments held for 30 days, and that was a very meager buy with few participants. Paypal sucks, but there are few reasonable alternatives.
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 February 2012, 02:55:49 by lysol »

Offline duncan

  • Posts: 184
Group Buy Economics
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 04:47:14 »
Some good discussion here (in amongst a few people seemingly incapable of understanding the original point and question - perhaps those people actually did not want to understand?). I think there could well be some cases where the OP's suggested scenario panned out and everyone might pay less if there was single large set of keys but the trouble would be that one would need to know that up front and overcome the 'but I should pay less, I only want 87 keys' knee jerk reaction by insisting that if we all stick together it will be cheaper for everyone. That sort of counterintuitive leap is not something our monkey brains are good at dealing with so people choose not to participate so the numbers aren't achieved to make the 'bulk buy' that the original assumption relies on and we are back in hell again.

As in all things to do with money psychology is at least as important as reality. Consider this sort of weirdness:
''Moreover, an apparent discrepancy in gender was all it took to increase men’s willingness to make financially riskier decisions. In another experiment, participants were shown photos of groups of people: some where women outnumbered men, some where men outnumbered women, and some with an equal number of each. Afterwards, experimenters asked participants whether they would rather be paid the following day, or wait for a greater amount in a month. The result? After viewing photographs graced by fewer women, men were much more likely to choose $20 the next day over waiting a few weeks for $30.''
http://danariely.com/
Overcoming that sort of irrational pre-programming is not something GH GB organisers are equipped to handle.


All very interesting stuff.

Mostly just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone who takes the trouble to organise these GBs for us.

I was already in awe of the amount of work people put in for little or no reward and hadn't considered the issues around PayPal and the like making it even more troublesome.

A good eye opener for me on just how lucky we are to have GH and the community that we have.

Group hug everyone.

Realforce 86UB || HHKB P2 || FILCO MT 87 Blues || FILCO MT 87 Browns || FILCO MT 87 Ninja  Blacks || Poker X Reds

Offline captain

  • Posts: 703
Group Buy Economics
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 04:54:22 »
Here's my two cents:  If buying 50 sets of 140 key caps costs $17/ea more than buying 50 sets of 87 (while driving the cost of various "sets" into $20, $40, $60, $100+ range), WTF!?  The solution seems crystal clear: create ONE "complete" set of 140, collect the $87 from everyone who wants in on the deal, and all but a few can have extra key caps to play with. Then everyone is happy.

Remember, if you try to buy one set of just 87 SP key caps direct from SP it will cost you around $400.  Yes, Melissa quoted me approximately

FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR ONE SET OF KEYCAPS!

Why are we niggling over $20, when we are saving ~$300 per set by building group orders???  I think my math is close enough to make a valid point. If not, sorry.  And maybe I'm wrong, and the five ISO people here are all gazillionaires and don't mind paying the big premiums to let the college kids save $17...

I am curious what a "complete" keycaps set for the GH community would be. Anyone?
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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Group Buy Economics
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 05:34:04 »
Quote from: RColinTaylor;520483
...my Paypal became locked by the company and the dispute which followed forced me to do a reversal of all money collections. With this I was forced to pay all of the Paypal fees back, lose my Paypal account, and lose access to Paypal's instant pay services.

Quote from: lysol;520490
What I learned about paypal, and why they lock accounts... well lots of reasons... basically ANY reason. To be more specific the big 2 are, a large flood of 'gifts', and or a large amount of merchandise that is not marked shipped within 1 week, which seems to be the BIG one...My first buy i got some warnings... and ever since I have had all payments held for 30 days, and that was a very meager buy with few participants. Paypal sucks, but there are few reasonable alternatives.

Hmmm these kinds of stories is making me reevaluate the way I receive payment for my GB. I received over 80 payments in the past month, and I gave people the option to send payment as 'gift' to shave off ~$1. The majority by far took advantage of this gift option, but so far I haven't gotten any warnings or notifications from paypal. *knocks on wood*.

BTW, I also commend all other GB organizers. Before I ran my first GB (lol only a few weeks after I registered on GH), I never realized how much time it demanded. I thought it was just a simple order from the manufacturer, then mass ship everything at once. Sure it's just a few PMs here and there, but multiplied by 50+ people and it takes up a few hours a day to answer all questions, back and forth communication between the manufacturer, sort payments and organize all info/data on excel spreadsheet, packaging and shipping, etc.. Hats off to the rest of the GB organizers for your time and dedication to make it work for everyone else.

Offline captain

  • Posts: 703
Group Buy Economics
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 06:41:20 »
I had a PayPal account locked up tight and terminated (and a few hundred dollars all but stolen by PayPal)** simply for writing to them to ask if the vendor's "PayPal payment page" was legitimate (it was).

** The only reason I eventually did get my money back is because I am tenacious like a badger. I read ALL of their legalese, and discovered the hidden clause that allowed me to file an arcane request "after six months...but before six months and one week".  THAT is PayPal. They suck. paypalsucks.com exists for good reason. But we don't have a lot of choice. So, if you use PayPal, learn the tricks to stay under their radar.

I think that if I run my GB for pink/white double shots I'll just have people mail me checks. :-)
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Offline 7bit

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Group Buy Economics
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 06:59:53 »
Quote from: mkawa;519873
if you think you know how to run the greatest group buy ever, then by all means do it. in the meantime i'm going with the folks who are willing to do the work and who have a proven track record.


This had already been done:
Round 3

We will never ever be able to do that again!

:-(
Buy key caps here: Round 5
Buy switches here: CherryMX

Offline Lpb45

  • Posts: 481
Group Buy Economics
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 07:14:40 »
Quote from: 7bit;520568
This had already been done:
Round 3

We will never ever be able to do that again!

:-(

Best GB ever imo
Topre - 86U   |   Filco - Tenkeyless Linear Red
Filco - Tenkeyless Blue       |   Filco - Fullsize Non NKRO Blue (Work)

Offline alaricljs

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Group Buy Economics
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 07:47:56 »
Quote from: captain;520526
Here's my two cents:  If buying 50 sets of 140 key caps costs $17/ea more than buying 50 sets of 87 (while driving the cost of various "sets" into $20, $40, $60, $100+ range), WTF!?  The solution seems crystal clear: create ONE "complete" set of 140, collect the $87 from everyone who wants in on the deal, and all but a few can have extra key caps to play with. Then everyone is happy.

This won't work because not enough people are willing to spend that amount of money and get 37% more keycaps than they need at a price they don't like to begin with.  Unless it was the ultimate keyset that everyone would die for then you won't get enough people placing an order for it to be $87 to begin with.  I'm sure there is demand for 140keys of some style, but that demand isn't enough for any 1 style to get the prices low enough that people interested in 87 keys of the style are willing to pay the price for 140keys to get it.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Group Buy Economics
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 22:07:01 »
i need to read this thread

Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: Group Buy Economics
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 22:07:51 »
i need to read this thread

Thinking about group buys?
People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

The dumber the reason the more it must be done

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Group Buy Economics
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 22:09:19 »
i need to read this thread

Thinking about group buys?

group buys are depressing, wonder if that thread has been done yet.....do we have a group buy therapy thread?

Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: Group Buy Economics
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 22:11:33 »
i need to read this thread

Thinking about group buys?

group buys are depressing, wonder if that thread has been done yet.....do we have a group buy therapy thread?

Pretty sure that's the GH60 thread.  :blank: :blank:
People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

The dumber the reason the more it must be done

Offline demik

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Re: Group Buy Economics
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 22:38:19 »
i need to read this thread

so read it and dont bump it.

when the **** are mods going to crack down on this necroing ****?
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline tbc

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Re: Group Buy Economics
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 22:40:24 »
i need to read this thread

Thinking about group buys?

group buys are depressing, wonder if that thread has been done yet.....do we have a group buy therapy thread?

Pretty sure that's the GH60 thread.  :blank: :blank:

that's not therapy; that's a memorial.  you get sadder after leaving.
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