Question for IBM lovers, to buy or not to buy this NIB Model F 122 key

[bazemk1979]

Title says it all, NIB around $80, I have yet to see one NIB anywhere,year 1996. Pics attached.

[mr626]

Buy it :-)

[REVENGE]

Title says it all, NIB around $80, I have yet to see one NIB anywhere,year 1996. Pics attached.

I don't even know why you're posting this, somebody is going to jack your find!

EDIT: AND 1996! This would make a great companion to my 1996 Unsaver.

[bazemk1979]

I think someone snatched it.....damn

[bazemk1979]

EDIT: nope no one snatched it, seller dropped the price for $5 so thats what confused me, bought the young pup :dance:

all mein and gone, guess was his last one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00609SG1K/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Total with shipping $78

[TexasFlood]

EDIT: nope no one snatched it, seller dropped the price for $5 so thats what confused me, bought the young pup :dance:

Wow, great deal, congrats on the NIB aircraft carrier, good stuff.

[bazemk1979]

thanks men, just uploaded the picture of the sticker to the original thread post

[REVENGE]

Interesting, are you sure it's a Model F though? Looks like a plastic back to me.

[TexasFlood]

Might a model M, my terminal model f has stepped, what, alt ctrl and maybe return keys (not sure gotta get it out of the box), do they all?

[fohat.digs]

Awesome! Lucky Dog!

If that actually is a Model F, (why the f*ck doesn't it say so?, is the back black metal?) it is worth several times what you paid.

I am jelly.

I guess that you know how to tell the difference between F and M, please report back to verify which model this is.

Nice find, I might well have jacked it if I had had the chance.

[bazemk1979]

Honestly I thought also its model F, I got few NIB 122 key terminals that are model M with  LED overlay on it, this one got me thinking its model F since the casing looks like the Model F, No LED overlay, big a** PS/2 not the typical standard PS/2, Silver badge.... All of this things lead me to conclusion that it is Model F, once when I'll receive the board will post bunch of pics from the every possible sticker there is on the board and the box and maeby we all find out what type of board is. But I think this one will require Soarer adapter and the codes, which is something I want to do down the road when I have more free time, and will take my time since will be my first time dealing with such hack.

[fohat.digs]

There are Model Ms that have the badge on the right side like the Fs, that may be what this is.

If it is an F, there will be a metal plate with individual barrels poking through.

If it is an M, there will be a one-piece unit with integral barrels (I think it may be called a "frame" but that is hardly what it really is).

[bazemk1979]

once I'll receive the keyboard will try to figure out and will post more detailed pictures in this thread, anyways its new and as far as goes from my stand point, all thats new from IBM BS, its collectible to me.

[TexasFlood]

I really am not sure how to tell the difference, good luck with it, the price was right either way.

[REVENGE]

It doesn't really matter. It's either a nicely priced NIB terminal M, or a BARGAIN BASEMENT F. I'm guessing M though, not aware of any Fs that aren't metal backed.

[bazemk1979]

Doubt its plug and play, actually I'm hoping it isnt cause next time I have spare time I will love to make my own adapter. I believe there was a guy who actually made nice plastic box for it but not sure if he posted any how to's.....

[bazemk1979]

not sure if there is anywhere on the back sticker that it refers if its or if it isnt for 3196, doesnt even says if its Model M or F, almost sure its Model M.... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B00609SG1K/ref=dp_otherviews_1?ie=UTF8&img=1&s=miscellaneous

[dorkvader]

I really am not sure how to tell the difference, good luck with it, the price was right either way.

Are there any good ways of telling the difference between M and F 122-keys? Do you just have to trawel through postings that mention the product number? I've trying to build a list from what I see on DT, GH, sandy55, webwit, etc, but it's a little shaky.

[bazemk1979]

i have few model M's 122 key and they feel same as the model M 101 key. For some reason model M's made by lexmark with fixed cable are more soft to press, less pingy, than the earlier models made by IBM with detachable cable.

[REVENGE]

Metal back = F
Plastic back = M
99% of the time.

[fohat.digs]

I have had a number (approximately a dozen) of these (122-key terminal boards, that is) pass through my hands, and the label always said "Model M" or "Model F" (if there was a label present).

The smaller Model Fs (XT and AT) that I have owned did not have labels on the outside, but they were located on the interior metal plate.

I am surprised to see a label that has the usual "other" information without saying what the actual model is, but then I have never owned a Lexmark terminal, only IBMs.

Verification of the metal back always indicating an F would be helpful. My guess is that is accurate, but I could say for certain. The wikis do not address the case construction issue, as far as I can see. We know that the F AT had plastic shell case top and bottom, and probably many of those "weird" specialty boards, too, but there is surprisingly little discussion/information of the big boys compared to the smaller ones.

Several times I have seen M-122s with the badge on the right, and wondered how many of those parts, if any, would interchange with Fs, or if, drool, they were actually Fs in disguise (that is, capacitive). Even if the top half of the case shell would fit an F, that would be nice, because the F cases seem to be a particularly brittle plastic.

[REVENGE]

Not accurate or precise:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Model_F

There were a LOT of terminal users on plastic keyboards.

This is why wikis>rules of thumb.

Ripster Guides are good too.  From link below.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29640-Ripsters-Review-of-the-122Key-IBM-Model-M-1397000&highlight=1397000

What's in either that wiki or your guide that disproves my "rule of thumb"?

Also, that's just your review of a terminal emulator Model M. How is it a guide for distinguishing between a Model F and Model M?

[REVENGE]

The ones on the bottom.  LOTS of terminal keyboards.  Plastic.  Very popular in the Day.

Some dude here just bought the 3161 Term one thinking it was a Model M.

None of those pics even show the back of the keyboard.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the top casing. I know that both Ms and Fs shared that earlier square badge plastic top case. I'm talking about the underside of the case.

[REVENGE]

Well they are plastic.

Trust me.

Partially. Again, that's not what I'm referring to.

[REVENGE]

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?31326-Question-for-IBM-lovers-to-buy-or-not-to-buy-this-NIB-Model-F-122-key&p=595152&viewfull=1#post595152

Trust is a GOOD thing.  It's Sunday.

I wish you would go back to carrying out keyboard science and backing up your claims with research instead of just posting platitudes wherever you go.

[bazemk1979]

Ok so to sum all speculations what would you all want me to do when keyboard arrives?  dissasemble it and check the internals if the sticker on back doesnt says if its model M or F right?  Another question comes to me is,the keyboard was made in 1996, did IBM or Lexmark for that matter made Model F terminal 1996 or later?

[fohat.digs]

If it does not say "Model M" on the outside, I doubt that it will on the inside.

The small Model Fs have the label on the inside, I have never had an M with interior labels.

Look in between the keys. An F will have a metal plate with individual barrels poking up through it. An M will have a single-piece plastic unit with all the barrels molded into it.

You can easily tell that by pulling a couple of keys.

[bazemk1979]

all will take is to remove few caps and check the barrels then, board should be in by 24th, I'll make sure and check it out.

[bazemk1979]

No....
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?12210-IBM-model-M-1390572

The Model M thing is a tiny detail.  I'm a big picture guy.  Like whether it works with a PC.

I kinda doubt it will,but before I end up ordering parts to do the teensy or start researching oh how to DIY, I'll order 5din to PS/2 and see if its a plug and play, although the board not having LED overlay somehow tells me it wont be plug and play such as my current new Lexmark 122key that I'm typing on... and this one has LED overlay.

[bazemk1979]

ripster I know its buckling spring, the seller confirmed before I bought the board, as if its PC compatible via plug and play, well time will tell I need to order the adapter, and guess what now I have even bigger reason to get the adapter, cause I just snatched this puppy LOL http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-keyboard-/200763820692?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2ebe74ca94

[bazemk1979]

lol so no congrats for this one that will need tensy? it will be fun when I have free time to tackle the teensy project, or maeby I will go even further  to make a nice lil box for it like one Aussie GHer did.

[mich]

This one will also work with PCs with a simple RJ45 to PS/2 adapter (or cable transplant) and few software tweaks. Read "terminal model f conversion" wiki.

[bazemk1979]

hm, mich its at 5 pin din, not rj45

[mich]

OK, so you will need a DIN adapter or cable swap then. IBM were cheap bastards and they used the same keyboards everywhere, the only difference being keycaps, plug and ID (settable with jumpers).

In case there is any doubt, here's the PCB from one of my Greenock terminal boards. Yours should look the same.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 50979[/ATTACH]

The pinout is:
- middle pin in bottom layer: ground
- other pins in bottom layer: clock and data, don't remember which is which but it's safe to swap them
- south pin in top layer: 5V
- north pin in top layer: not connected

Before you connect it to PS/2, teensy or whatever else, make sure that the pin you believe to be ground is connected to both electrolytic capacitors and the pin you believe to be 5V is connected to + side of one of them.

[bazemk1979]

got the board, guess 2 days earlier. I will post pics and btw the sticker is upside down WTF?!?!?! LOL  seems that folks from England were lazy to doublecheck stuff.... Does not says if its Model M or F, but I've watched few vids of how Model F AT sounds, and this one does not sound like that, sounds more like the Model M.... Pics later on lads and gets.

[fohat.digs]

Apologies to Kishy, all my Model Ms DID have labels on the inside, I just forgot. I cut little circles around the rivets when I did the bolt-mods.

And I think that my Greenock M also had the label upside-down, too. I figured that they did them that way on purpose, so that when you flipped them over you could read them directly.

[bazemk1979]

Ok so here are the pics, and from what info I could of gather these are my opinions on it

- Not saying if its model M or F. but:
1. Tactility similar to model M
2. Plastic barrels as one piece of the barrel plastic plate

-Extremely heavy, heavier than my Lexmark 122 key with LED overlays, at least it feels like

-Huge! thats what she said....

-Plastic and final fitment finish not as nice as original IBM made boards, I'm talking of theboards that were made from 1986-1993, somewhat better quality than Unicomp but on pair with Lexmark

Any ways look at the sticker, glued upside down..... someone was seriosly short sighted who was responsible for placing the stickers, mkayyyyyy?!

[bazemk1979]

Does not say M?

I should have bet some AAPL shares with Kishy!

Hey Ripster look at the first pic, it says F on the bottom of the styrofoam..... LOL

[mr626]

So, how does it compare to our Lexmark 122 key units? Looks physically bigger for a start, I wonder if the key mappings are similar?

[bazemk1979]

So, how does it compare to our Lexmark 122 key units? Looks physically bigger for a start, I wonder if the key mappings are similar?

ah its practically the same board in different larger casing, click feels the same as any other model M made by lexmark,less pingy than the Model M made by IBM. As for how keys mapping is,pretty sure is the same as our Lexmark although I dont know yet cause I will need to build teensy for it when I get the time, but will order the parts pretty soon and get my research going for it. I do will get the metal AT tp PS/2 to give it a shot if its direct plug and playcompatible and anyways if it isnt I will need it for my Model M 101 square logo since I would like to use the original black AT cable.

[Soarer]

It's a 270° 5-pin, or no?

[Soarer]

Oops, I meant 240°! (Well, sort of - it's more usually described as 270°).



As in, slightly wider spacing than the 180° 5-pin.



The 240° 6-pin socket will work just fine too! :-D

[bazemk1979]

I didnt had a clue that there are 3 variants of AT conectors..... Will take picture in few and post it here

[fohat.digs]

I think that there are whole lot more than that.

And, besides the physical size and shape of the plugs, they can be wired to utilize various combinations or contacts.

[Soarer]

I didnt had a clue that there are 3 variants of AT conectors..... Will take picture in few and post it here

There's two really, I expect yours is the first type there.

The pics are to show that the 5-pin plug will fit fine into the 6-pin socket :-)

[bazemk1979]

There's two really, I expect yours is the first type there.

The pics are to show that the 5-pin plug will fit fine into the 6-pin socket :-)

you are right soarer, its same as the first sample :-)

[bazemk1979]

kishy how about this one, would be handy if I descide to make box for the aoarer adapter,can be drilled on the box itself after cutting out hole for it

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Mini-DIN-Connector-Socket-Female-5pin-Signal-2007-5-/130412826573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5d35cfcd

[Soarer]

Not that one... that's a mini DIN; you want the regular size.

Like this. Well, the picture looks correct, I dunno why the seller says it's 4 pin!! (I wouldn't buy from there, you don't know which you'd get!) Can't spot any of the right type (5 or 6 pin) from any US eBay sellers though.

[ch_123]

Are there any good ways of telling the difference between M and F 122-keys? Do you just have to trawel through postings that mention the product number? I've trying to build a list from what I see on DT, GH, sandy55, webwit, etc, but it's a little shaky.

When it comes to the 122-keys, plastic back = M, metal back = F.

The interesting thing about this keyboard is that it's a pre-1987 vintage case on a rather late Model M. Either it's a refurb, or it was made from spare parts lying around (much in the same way there are Lexmark-made 1390120/1390131s from the late 90s)