Question ps2 / usb buckling spring

[Carnage]

Hello all! ive been a long lurker here for a while actually and this is my first post thanks to you guys ive had some great experience with my current keyboard after reading on here and lurking around i decided i wanted a keyboard with blue alps which i now own and love alps are amazing haha anyways onto the question!

So im currently looking on getting a new buckling spring keyboard from unicomp i kind of want one to add to my collection ((im planning on adding a green alps keyboard one day to)) anywhom the problem is this, how massive is the diffrence between usb and ps2? im planning on building a new pc within the next month or two but im currently using a laptop with no ps2 port i type quiet a bit on a daily basis and i play some games mostly starcraft 2 but the issue is, would getting a usb keyboard really be worse? i mean i want a ps2 but then id have to somehow find a adapter for it to work and what not but i dont want to just get a usb out of pure laziness and regret it in the future. so what do you guys think? ps2 or usb it will be used mostly for typing and playing starcraft 2, and on a side note if i do get the ps2 anyways what kind of a adapter do you think id need for it to work i heard those / model m need special ps2 to usb adapters.

thanks in advance!@!@

[fohat.digs]

Opinions differ. I have used a bunch of cheap adapters with dozens of keyboards on nearly a dozen computers and never had any problems except when going to a laptop that was running on battery power.

As much as I love old stuff, I think that the PS2 is rapidly becoming ancient technology. Unless you have a compelling reason to need PS2, buy the USB.

I presume that you expect this keyboard to outlive your next 3 computers.

Blue Alps! Lucky dog! Is that an early Omnikey?

[wcass]

go with the USB.

gamers usually want PS2 boards because PS2 will support NKRO. most USB only supports 6KRO. but that is not 100% true now. with currently available methods you can get NKRO over USB. but with either connection, you must have the switches to support it.

any keyboard that uses a "matrix" of switches must employ some form of back-flow prevention (usually a diode) to get anything greater than 2KRO, as this costs money, most keyboards are technically 2KRO. all of the keyboards currently available from Unicomp are 2KRO.

*** 2KRO = MINIMUM number of keys that can be pressed at the same time. all 2KRO boards support very many 3-key, 4-key, even 10-key combination, but not ALL 3-key combinations.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Personally I'd just go PS2 plus Blue Cube. That way you can use it period on anything.

It's too bad they don't do what old mice did, which was to have their controller just figure out what mode it was speaking in and do so. If they did that, you could just use those green adapters and have no downside either way; rather than having either the theoretical latency that comes with something like a blue cube (while on usb), or having to use only usb.

[urbanus]

Personally I'd just go PS2 plus Blue Cube. That way you can use it period on anything.

The Blue Cube means extra expense and hassle.

Why not go in the other direction?  Get USB, then use a USB --> PS2 adapter in the unlikely event that you ever have to use it on a computer without USB ports.

[Carnage]

Hmm does usb to ps2 still have the NKRO problems? the issue is i do want to use it for some gaming i mean its only sc2 so i dont see a point where im mashing 6 keys at the same time but ya know

btw its a Leading Edge DC-2014 not omnikey
had to re wire it when i first got it cleaned it up and i am in love with it haha but i want to give buckling springs a try

[dorkvader]

Hmm does usb to ps2 still have the NKRO problems? the issue is i do want to use it for some gaming i mean its only sc2 so i dont see a point where im mashing 6 keys at the same time but ya know

btw its a Leading Edge DC-2014 not omnikey
had to re wire it when i first got it cleaned it up and i am in love with it haha but i want to give buckling springs a try

If you get 6KRO over USB, then it's a good bet you'll get NKRO over PS2.

[Carnage]

Anybody know the KRO on unicomps?

[Icarium]

Since they use a membrane they can only be 2KRO because there can't be any diodes in the matrix.

Edit: Maybe membrane is not a good term, most people just call it "matrix". It's a foil thingy...

[False_Dmitry_II]

AFAIK, there is no such thing as an adapter that goes in the reverse direction. IE, there is no such thing as a USB to PS/2 adapter.

If you are referring to the green "adapters" that old mice used to come with, or the purple "adapters" that some modern keyboards come with, such as Das ones, those really just get the wires into the correct/expected places in the shape of a PS/2 plug. The controller onboard does all the work and figures out which language it is speaking, usb or PS/2, and does so.

Which is why I suggested what I did. If the desktop you get has PS/2, you'd want to use that anyway. It is technically faster, since it is interrupt based. Otherwise, you can still use it with a blue cube and the like. I don't know how much latency using such adapters adds, because nobody seems to have a good way to test it and find out.

unicomp/model m keyboards are 2KRO. So you'll get as much as they can do no matter what you do. As you said, this is a measure of simultaneous key-presses, so I'm not sure that you will have a problem.

 

[urbanus]

AFAIK, there is no such thing as an adapter that goes in the reverse direction. IE, there is no such thing as a USB to PS/2 adapter.

Really?

If you are referring to the green "adapters" that old mice used to come with, or the purple "adapters" that some modern keyboards come with, such as Das ones, those really just get the wires into the correct/expected places in the shape of a PS/2 plug. The controller onboard does all the work and figures out which language it is speaking, usb or PS/2, and does so.

So when a USB keyboard is physically connected via PS/2 it talks PS/2, which is what you wanted in the first place, right?

I think you just agreed with me.  Or I agreed with you, whatever.

Which is why I suggested what I did. If the desktop you get has PS/2, you'd want to use that anyway. It is technically faster, since it is interrupt based.

Technically, but after debouncing does any of that matter?  The only time I've ever seen a problem with delays between the keyboard and the screen it has been with specific, slow computer programs -- nothing to do with the hardware or communication.

In conclusion, on one side of the ledger I see the extra cost of buying a Blue Cube and the mess & inconvenience of plugging things through an adapter.  On the other side I see little in terms of practical benefits.  So thanks for your advice: it's clarified things for me.

[dorkvader]

Most USB devices have support for passive PS2 adapters in the controller, but active USB to PS2 devices do exist. They can be expensive, though. I think you can use a cheap KVM as an alternative.

That said, since all my USB devices can talk PS2 with a passive adapter, I prefer USB. For a unicomp, with 2KRO anyway, I'd have preferred a USB, but my parents got me PS2 by mistake for Christmas. I still use it daily, and will eventually mod it to USB or get a PCB from unicomp.

Also, Unicomp/IBM model M are buckling spring over membrane. Their membrane is very similar to that of a rubberdome, as far as I can tell. In any case "membrane" is a good word. for "matrix" I am generally talking about the key assignments (like it has 2KRO, but the matrix is gaming optimized) or about access-is, tipro, and that one cherry keyboard(s).

That's just my opinion on word use

[False_Dmitry_II]

The only bad thing that happens using the word membrane is that some people read it and figure the word to be synonymous with rubber dome.

If you are referring to the green "adapters" that old mice used to come with, or the purple "adapters" that some modern keyboards come with, such as Das ones, those really just get the wires into the correct/expected places in the shape of a PS/2 plug. The controller onboard does all the work and figures out which language it is speaking, usb or PS/2, and does so.

So when a USB keyboard is physically connected via PS/2 it talks PS/2, which is what you wanted in the first place, right?

I think you just agreed with me.  Or I agreed with you, whatever.

Unicomps don't do that, though, which is why I said I thought they should in my original post.

[mkawa]

i hate adapters. especially with unicomp boards that aren't NKRO, go with USB.

[urbanus]

Unicomps don't do that, though, which is why I said I thought they should in my original post.

You're right.  I just tried my Ultra Classic Black Buckling Spring USB (UB40P4A) with a USB to PS/2 passive adapter and got a keyboard error on POST.  I didn't expect that.

[486]

Hmm does usb to ps2 still have the NKRO problems? the issue is i do want to use it for some gaming i mean its only sc2 so i dont see a point where im mashing 6 keys at the same time but ya know

btw its a Leading Edge DC-2014 not omnikey
had to re wire it when i first got it cleaned it up and i am in love with it haha but i want to give buckling springs a try

WOW. A leading Edge DC-2014. They are a great keyboard.
I simply got a cheap active PS/2 to USB adapter for my Model M's.

[Carnage]

On a side note how would you guys compare buckling springs to blue alps which one you guys think is louder because these alps are loud and i think the buckling springs require more force correct?