Author Topic: GH60 Keyboard Project  (Read 429450 times)

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:02:39 »
So, I think most people want something like this:





I think we can use the Phantom PCB, just redesigned to be cut down to 60% size. Phantom Mini. The bottom row could have options for winkey or winkeyless. Also, ISO layout could be included, just like on the original Phantom. You just buy the universal Phantom Mini PCB, and whichever plate matches your chosen layout (PHMANSI, PHMANSIWIN, PHMISO, PHMISOWIN).
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Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:09:50 »
I would personally like it to be a 65-70% with the function row or an extra column, but that may just be me.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:13:35 »
There's a thread for that...It's called the KS Mini. :P
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Offline jil_jil32

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:17:39 »
So, I think most people want something like this:

[img width=640 height=206]http://i.imgur.com/7Zb65.png[img]

[img width=640 height=228]http://i.imgur.com/nEYo6.png[img]

I think we can use the Phantom PCB, just redesigned to be cut down to 60% size. Phantom Mini. The bottom row could have options for winkey or winkeyless. Also, ISO layout could be included, just like on the original Phantom. You just buy the universal Phantom Mini PCB, and whichever plate matches your chosen layout (PHMANSI, PHMANSIWIN, PHMISO, PHMISOWIN).

That's exactly what I want!

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:18:27 »
There's a thread for that...It's called the KS Mini. :P

Doesn't exist in ISO. There is no small ISO board at all unfortunately, so these things are our only hope.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:24:55 »
Well, much of the reason I designed it to be a 60% board instead of a 75% board is so that it will fit in a Poker/Pure case. And in the aluminum ones that imsto, oneproduct, and treble318 have made for them. For a 75% board with the function row and another column, we would have to design a custom case, as well. There are quite a few Poker/Pure cases floating around out there which can be used for this project.

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Offline i3oilermaker

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:26:40 »
Congrats!!!  Get this man a mystery key!

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:28:42 »
Ok, well as long as it is small and ISO, it will still be the first ever to be made.

I am in for one if that wasn't obvious by now.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:35:33 »
I know this will become a reality. I'm fairly certain bpiphany is on board to help with the design. I just don't know how long it will take to go from this interest phase to design to production.

At first, I wanted to modify the Dox design for this project, and exclude ISO altogether. But it shouldn't be too hard to modify the Phantom design down to this size, and that means we can have the ISO option. Like you said, it will be the very first (that I know of, anyway) 60% board with ISO layout.

Hopefully, everyone will get behind this project and make it a success, just like the original Phantom!
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Offline tjweir

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:48:51 »
Programmable?  I'm in.

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:52:36 »
Do I understand correctly that the Phantom pcb supports bot ISO and ANSI and 101 and 104 modifier layout?
If so, and if the designers of Phantom don't mind, we can take the layout and re-route the board to 60%. I think we can also embed the atmega32 because there's much less space to fit the teensy.
Teensy isn't really much more than an atmega and a couple of passives, and we could add, say, a 1Mbit flash to store all our super-duper keyboard layouts;)
One disadvantage of this is, however, not everybody will cope with smd soldering, so there would have to be someone to presolder the components...
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 15:55:27 »
You've got it exactly. And we should have the controller and any SMD components presoldered by the PCB fab. I don't think bpiphany will mind at all if you want to help with the redesign. He will probably send you the KiCAD file of the Phantom PCB. I have a copy saved somewhere, if it's needed.
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Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:01:25 »
Hm, so we're going with actual assembly too. I think we'll need at least 200 of these kbs made to have a decent price. But that won't be a problem:D!
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Offline Hzza

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:07:22 »
60%, programmable, ISO? In pls.

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:34:55 »
I don't think soldering that much extra space is necessary it has  few KB which is enough for any purpose I can think of.

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:42:13 »
That's right. But I once had this weird idea to put some more memory, add a LiPo battery and have a keyboard you can make notes on while it's not connected, and then transfer them over to your PC;)
Nevermind, just an idea, we don't need it.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:52:27 »
There used to be something like that available in the 90's I remember. It had a tiny little maybe 14 charachter lcd screen at the top so you could try to catch your mistakes if you made any. Then you could connect it with serial and transfer the text into document application.
That would be interesting feature, but I couldn't see myself using it personally.

Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 17:26:26 »
On a 60% board, kinda silly


I could see it on a fullsized board tho
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 18:30:45 »
Why on fullsize if used for taking notes, like in a class or something... you want it small so it is less annoying to lug around all day.

Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 18:48:48 »
Why on fullsize if used for taking notes, like in a class or something... you want it small so it is less annoying to lug around all day.

I see your point but how are you going to power it? batteries?
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 19:08:13 »
I could see having a little LCD on a fullsize so that the numpad could be used as an independent calculator (no alt-tab necessary). For note taking, IMO, there's still no substitute for a pen and some paper.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 19:37:20 »
I am not saying this should be done here and starting to get a little off topic, but the thing I was talking about was battery powered to keep the document in memory and to power the screen. It was just a keyboard with a little screen along the top of it basically a low end portable word processor. It was like a 60% too. Not exactly the one I was thinking of but sort of like one of these things:

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 21:19:44 »
Too many mods and extras would kill the project.  It's called 'feature creep', and every design team deals with it.

I like this idea.  US needs a 'board of our own'.

I'm a computer engineer.  Willing to provide some help if it's really needed.

Offline sth

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 21:21:21 »
Sounds like an alphasmart 2000. i know a surplus place in the bay area that i could probably get 50 of those from... not that anybody would want them :P

I like the idea of a screen, I wanted to put one in my pokertouch case.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 21:52:14 »
You folks need to get a Focus FK-5001. One of my best friends in college had one, and I thought that was just the best. Welcome to 1992!

NO SCREEN!

;D
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 23:55:43 »
I see you like the layout i commisioned a template for from hazeluff. Why not use one that i have made already I have a few different versions worked out for dox, phantom, and WASD. Ill post them as ideas here tomorrow but i think all of them are quite good.

Offline Glissant

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 04:53:37 »
I'm watching this eagerly. Very interested to say the least.

Offline Icarium

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 05:04:05 »
It needs the 7bit spacebar of japanese doom. At least as an option.
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Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 09:19:18 »
I don't think bpiphany will mind at all if you want to help with the redesign. He will probably send you the KiCAD file of the Phantom PCB. I have a copy saved somewhere, if it's needed.

If you could post the KiCAD files, I'd be grateful. I've just received imsto's keycaps for this keyboard, so I'd like to build a prototype as soon as possible;)
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 09:30:04 »
This would be my ideal layout:

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 11:07:19 »
This would be my ideal layout:
Show Image


I see the merits of your design, but we would have to redesign much more of the PCB, instead of simply making a few modifications to an existing design. And several people have expresses desire to have a standard, modern bottom row with 1.25 mods and 6.25 space. So I think we need to keep that option available.
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Offline hazeluff

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 11:29:40 »
I wouldn't call this board a "mini" board tho. I associate that with the 75% board. But heh.

Making the schematic and PCB is fairly easy. People just need to decide on the layouts that should be available (and not you have limited space for them).

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 11:30:37 »
Just thought I would throw it out there, as to me you get best of everything. Important, you get to have 1.5 mods, with a Windows and menu key if you want. Definitely make it easier to use all original Cherry keycaps as 1800 sets are a cinch to find.

Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 13:18:15 »
I personally don't want a poker layout because I already have a poker. But I also don't want some crazy layout that's hard to find keys for. I think it should be Tsangan kit friendly since Tsangan kit are almost always run with GBs for sets of keys.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #84 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 13:25:21 »
That's why I went with a modified Phantom layout, instead of something more custom like the Dox layout. See updated layout in the OP.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 13:28:03 »
Which was what I was saying! I really just don't want a key between Ctrl and Alt on the left though, and I could not put it there, but have a space like a crackheads missing front tooth.
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 August 2012, 13:31:04 by lysol »

Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 13:30:46 »
I just had a thought, I could get the plates from the lazer guy and a case made for 3-4 plates (so we could avoid CNC mill hourly rates) from the water jet guy.
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Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 13:41:08 »
I tried, and a metal case made from sheets looks a bit weird. It works when it is acrylic, especially when in several colours, but the dividing lines just seem odd to me.

These pcbs and plates will be poker compatible, right?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #88 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 14:20:58 »
Yes, that is the intention. Which is why we won't have to bother reinventing the wheel with the cases. imsto, treble318, and oneproduct already make aluminum cases, and Vortex makes plastic cases that come with a Poker/Pure PCB and some switches included. :P
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Offline tipo33

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 17:10:31 »
I may be interested depending on what options we setle on.  I vote for 1.5 mods and an ISO option.
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Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #90 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 18:48:03 »
This would be my ideal layout:
Show Image


I see the merits of your design, but we would have to redesign much more of the PCB, instead of simply making a few modifications to an existing design. And several people have expresses desire to have a standard, modern bottom row with 1.25 mods and 6.25 space. So I think we need to keep that option available.

I've started working on this, and it seems from my basic sketches, that doing lysol idea's support along with standard 1.25mod + 6.25 spacebar and model m 1.5-1-1.5mod on both sides is possible at the expense of not having support for one of the two pcb mount pins in the crowdiest area.
I think I may actually redesign the board, especially because we don't have the controller incorporated into the Phantom, and we want it here.
Not sure where I'll fit it, but it must be possible;)
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Offline Tenkey

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 19:13:45 »
Make this happen, so i can make a wood replica of the hhkb :cool:

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #92 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 20:06:36 »
komar007, you might take a look at the Dox PCB layout files here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=19227.0

I think the Dox has the Teensy located under the spacebar
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Offline Tenkey

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 01:14:26 »
Any chance this is going to support a 7x spacebar?

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 03:34:05 »
komar007, you might take a look at the Dox PCB layout files here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=19227.0

I think the Dox has the Teensy located under the spacebar

Thanks, I'll look into it.

Any chance this is going to support a 7x spacebar?

Yes, there is a chance;)
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 03:43:04 »
here are the few layouts that i have come up with in the past



















Offline damorgue

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 03:53:07 »
Show Image


Lol, great minds think alike. Does it look familiar or what:

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 03:58:55 »
Show Image


Lol, great minds think alike. Does it look familiar or what:
Show Image

only reason i dont have anything special on that layout is i made it for WASD as a possible layout and since program-ability and layering wasnt wanted. thats about as small of a board that you can make with all functions available and sill have a semi normal layout.

Offline hazeluff

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 04:46:02 »
komar007, you might take a look at the Dox PCB layout files here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=19227.0

I think the Dox has the Teensy located under the spacebar

For a board that's compact, It's probably best to SMD a MCU onto the PCB. Tho obviously some people are terrified of soldering already in the first place.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 04:52:23 »
komar007, you might take a look at the Dox PCB layout files here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=19227.0

I think the Dox has the Teensy located under the spacebar

For a board that's compact, It's probably best to SMD a MCU onto the PCB. Tho obviously some people are terrified of soldering already in the first place.
yes its under the spacebar and yes smd would be better but wasnt an option on the revised dox