Author Topic: Left hand mousing  (Read 5947 times)

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Offline Gerk

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Left hand mousing
« on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 14:52:48 »
Anyone here made the change (for the right-handers that is)? 

I think I've finally successfully made the change -- the kicker that told me it was finally done is that last night someone handed me a wireless keyboard and trackpad and by instinct I put the trackpad on the left and used it like that without a second thought.

It's been tough but has helped me immensely as I've been having issues with my right arm for the last year or so.  I tried for a long time with a mouse on my left hand and while I could use it like that I never got comfortable with it, fine movements and precision selection stuff always felt like I was trying to write with the wrong hand (and rightly so), but since switching to using an Apple trackpad with my left hand I think I've finally gotten the hang of it all -- even the more precise stuff doesn't give me such a hard time anymore.

Lastly it has another big advantage for me as well ... I no longer care if my keyboards are tenkeyless or not because it doesn't matter on the reach distance when it's on your left.  I'm suddenly re-enjoying all my non TKL boards again :)
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Offline Lanx

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 16:56:35 »
i cannot do left hand mousing, i can do left hand trackball (and using the nubbins and trackpads on laptops are ambidexterous to me) but i just cannot do left hand mousing, even with an ambidexterous mouse, my left arm just sucks (i'm right arm dominant and drive with mostly right hand too, feel uncomfortable if i only use my left, but fine using both)

oddly i can use thumbsticks perfectly fine (on 360/ps3 no issues) just can't use the whole arm motion i guess.

Offline Gerk

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 17:47:38 »
Yep I'm fairly similar and the trackpad made it much easier for me to use just my left hand -- but I know exactly what you mean with the mouse part.  It's like writing or throwing with my left hand, just can't quite get it to where it's comfortable.  For now I'll stick to using the trackpad and be happy, gives me a couple more hours a day I can work at the computer.
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Offline kurplop

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 03:20:05 »
I commend you on making the change. It's remarkable what pain will drive us to.

Do you think you will continue left hand mousing until you develop similar problems with that hand then switch back or will you rotate at intervals?

I use a trackball on the right and a mouse on the left. I find I have more control using them simultaneously during various CAD functions. 

Offline dirge

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 04:17:03 »
I don't understand? I'm left handed, I hold the mouse in my right hand so I can take notes with my left.  It's the right handed people that are doing it wrong..
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Offline stingrae

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 06:42:05 »
I don't understand? I'm left handed, I hold the mouse in my right hand so I can take notes with my left.  It's the right handed people that are doing it wrong..

Umm I might be wrong but I am sure it's to reduce hand travel for non-tenkeyless layout users. Tempted to do it even with tenkeyless (I am a sucker for efficiency) but well my wrist is suffering from a martial arts injury.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 08 September 2012, 05:59:20 »
My other half is left-handed, and has the mouse on the left side of her keyboard and also has the mouse buttons swapped.

I am right-handed, and just can't use the mouse in my left hand, so I tend to end up either with my right arm lying across the desk in front of the keyboard, or I just move the mouse back over to the right while I am using her computer.

Strangely enough I don't seem to have trouble with the swapped mouse buttons - I seem to cater automatically for that.
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Offline Lanx

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 08 September 2012, 13:59:40 »
i think it's the "claw grip" or just gripping the mouse that is unnatural in the left hand (if you've used mouse for 20years with right), cuz i can use the nostromo just find with my left hand and that thing is semi-molded, but when i use an ambidexterous mouse (i have one on my htpc) it just feels alien and i just can't make it so precise

Offline Gerk

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 10 September 2012, 12:13:41 »
I do kind of naturally rotate a bit depending on what I'm doing.  I have a big old Kensington trackball on the right side for when I'm doing video/audio editing and when using my laptop I use either hand ... but in general I think I'll try and keep using the mouse with my let hand as long as I can.
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Offline Burz

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 11 September 2012, 18:14:48 »
I'm trying it now since I've wanted to go compact/TKL over mouse reaching and keyboard placement issues.

DSI also has some 'left-handed' mech keyboards that would accomplish the same thing without switching mouse hands.

(oops, just reached for the mouse to my right :) )
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Offline Piro

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 09:21:48 »
I don't understand? I'm left handed, I hold the mouse in my right hand so I can take notes with my left.  It's the right handed people that are doing it wrong..

I'm left handed too, and mouse with my right hand. Plus, you can get better mice for right handed mousing.

Offline bisl

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 09:32:00 »
I'm left-handed, and I've been using both hands for mousing since I was a kid. Originally this was because I figured I was supposed to mouse left-handed, as a lefty, but then grew tired of switching the mouse over on our family computer. Later, after I bought my own machine, I played warcraft & starcraft left-handed. But then played quake 3 and all subsequent FPS right-handed. Then played world of warcraft left-handed. Then moused right-handed at work for easy cut/pasting. Then ADDED A SECOND MOUSE on the left-hand for work so that I could use the arrow/editing keys while mousing.

I use two symmetrical steelseries mice; the Xai and the Sensei.

edit: changed copy/paste to cut/paste since I don't actually use ctrl-C that much in practice and it makes me sound like a bad programmer.
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 September 2012, 09:42:48 by bisl »

Offline Arc'xer

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 13:34:40 »
DSI also has some 'left-handed' mech keyboards that would accomplish the same thing without switching mouse hands.

Except that those are not "left-handed keyboards" but merely right-handed keyboards with the keypad on the left. Like most "left-handed keyboards".

A truly "left-handed keyboard" would be a mirrored layout(Yes it means that instead of being QWERTYUIOP it would be POIUYTREWQ). http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/left-handed-keyboards-t205.html#p6497. You can do it with any picture just copy it into paint and flip horizontal and you get a mirrored layout. Most are going to be "What is the point?", sheer fact is to give you the same key bind layout as a right-handed mouse user but with your left that way you stick with using a left-handed mouse rather than toss it up after a while due to having to rebind everything. I'm aware that some use other layout besides WASD but I get the feeling that most stick to WASD for familiarity and retention over many games and I'm sure left-handed players would like to utilize the same sets of keys with their right hand. Only major negative besides cost would have to be relearning how to type using a mirrored QWERTY, Dvorak, Colemak, or any other keyboard layout used.

I know that this is "Left-handed mousing" but I think the primary reason left-handed mice get left out aside from the obvious low numbers and or ambidextrous mice(rather than full left) is primarily the keyboard. Like I said before if you use left handed mice for a short period of time and your keyboard is facing a standard way what motivation do you have to fully swap over plus combined with relearning how to type it forces you more into left handed mousing.

Another interesting discussion is the lack of inversion of the X(Left is Right, Right is left) and Y(Up is Down and Down is Up) axis in some games and desktop. Reason being is when you switch over to your left you get kind of a mental distortion since your going completely against your normal mode of operation on the computer and it seems many lefties have the capacity of mirrored learning and utilize different brain sections to aim in games or on the desktop. I think some lefties don't mouse with their left due to lack of inversion due to the subtle-to-noticeable processes going on in their head.

Offline davkol

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 14:52:26 »
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« Last Edit: Mon, 10 December 2018, 14:59:56 by davkol »

Offline longweight

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 15:01:17 »
I can use the mouse in either hand, if my right starts hurting then I just switch the button function in Windows and go with my left :)

Offline Will@Drop

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 27 September 2012, 23:32:39 »
Broke my arm a few years ago and had to go lefty. Its not bad at all. The only thing is that it produces some pretty awkward positioning if you plan on using the WASD cluster for gaming.

Offline _js_

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 03 October 2012, 17:32:38 »
I tried to do the left-hand mousing thing, but ultimately just couldn't get comfortable with it.  I might have given it more time, except that I bought a HHKB Pro 2 and it's so small that it doesn't matter which side of the board I mouse.
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Offline NKRO

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 03 October 2012, 18:49:17 »
I've definitely started using both hands now that I have been experiencing pain in my right shoulder, and it has helped somewhat, but be aware that if you don't fix the other ergonomic issues with your workspace, you are likely to experience the same pain in your left arm as the right eventually.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 03 October 2012, 19:34:18 »
I tried to do the left-hand mousing thing, but ultimately just couldn't get comfortable with it.  I might have given it more time, except that I bought a HHKB Pro 2 and it's so small that it doesn't matter which side of the board I mouse.
I do this sometimes at work, so I can be loading a computer with my left hand and installing parts in one with my right. It's not so bad. The hardest part is the angles involved: Usually the mouse is far away from the optimal position, so my elbow has to be out at an angle. No fun.

I haven't tried left-handed mousing or trackballing because there's really no room for it on my desk. I'll have to come up with a different setup for it to work. Hmm

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Offline ra7c7er

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 03 October 2012, 19:35:57 »
I use both hand for mousing depending on what I am doing. I'm left handed so it isn't that hard for me. Biggest thing was getting the extra buttons down.

I think it's the right handed people who are using the mouse wrong. You should be using it in your left hand so your dominate hand can write or whatever else you need to do.

Offline daerid

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 06 October 2012, 22:57:45 »
I would try it, but I've invested way too much in right-handed mice to make the switch now.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 06 October 2012, 23:39:22 »

I think it's the right handed people who are using the mouse wrong. You should be using it in your left hand so your dominate hand can write or whatever else you need to do.

I never thought of that. I think your idea has merit.  The next time I modify my keyboard tray I just may reverse the placement of my trackball.

Offline Burz

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 26 October 2012, 12:11:52 »
I've made two attempts now, they both lasted less than 3 days. It's just not an optimal way to use the mouse, and the idea that we should switch to left-handed to accommodate the industry brainfart of 104-key-everywhere is just stupid.


I think it's the right handed people who are using the mouse wrong. You should be using it in your left hand so your dominate hand can write or whatever else you need to do.

I never thought of that. I think your idea has merit.  The next time I modify my keyboard tray I just may reverse the placement of my trackball.

For most people trying to use cut/copy/past/undo/select-all/save/etc... along with the mouse, it doesn't work smoothly. Those functions were grouped on the left for a reason.
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Offline laffindude

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 27 October 2012, 04:31:43 »
I don't understand? I'm left handed, I hold the mouse in my right hand so I can take notes with my left.  It's the right handed people that are doing it wrong..
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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 27 October 2012, 04:46:15 »
I don't understand? I'm left handed, I hold the mouse in my right hand so I can take notes with my left.  It's the right handed people that are doing it wrong..
This!

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I think I wore off all the cartilage on my right index finger. :(

I hit the spacebar with my left thumb. Anyone else? I have never seen anyone else do it. I wonder if its a bad thing. We are taught to hit the space bar with our right thumb.
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Offline laffindude

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 27 October 2012, 09:32:13 »
Left sided keyboard project has flatlined. Unless there is an infusion of cash, it ain't coming.

Offline Gerk

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 27 October 2012, 11:59:59 »
For most people trying to use cut/copy/past/undo/select-all/save/etc... along with the mouse, it doesn't work smoothly. Those functions were grouped on the left for a reason.

This is one of the things that was incredibly hard to adapt to when left-hand mousing for sure.  I'm back to right hand with an ergo mouse for now, but still also have a magic trackpad at the left of my keyboard that I use sometimes ... so I'm ambi-mouterious at the moment!
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Offline davkol

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 07:38:13 »
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« Last Edit: Mon, 10 December 2018, 15:00:04 by davkol »

Offline bisl

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 10:07:08 »
Ctrl+c = Shift+Insert; Ctrl+v = Ctrl+Shift+Insert;...

As a lefty, my mind is blown.

Offline Gerk

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 10:32:49 »
Ctrl+c = Shift+Insert; Ctrl+v = Ctrl+Shift+Insert;...

Maybe in windows it is, but didn't work on OSX or Linux here.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 10:49:49 »
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« Last Edit: Mon, 10 December 2018, 15:00:18 by davkol »

Offline Gerk

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 11:21:54 »
Hmm might be my keyboard mapping then (or the fact that it's through a KVM that's mangling something) but it didn't work for me, just tried again and same result.
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Offline laffindude

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 11:57:15 »
It is ctrl+insert = copy, and shift+insert = paste.

Offline bisl

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 14:20:19 »
It is ctrl+insert = copy, and shift+insert = paste.

Oh wait! Isn't Ctrl-Del the keystroke for Cut too? I've been doing this for years by accident and never knew it was part of an alternate Cut/Copy/Paste set.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 16:20:50 »
I switched to left hand mousing nearly a year ago and I am very happy with it.

My right hand is very dominant, but now I can write, answer the phone, etc, as well as use the numpad and arrow keys simultaneous with the mouse.

Too bad I recently bought a vertical mouse, which I also like, and it is a right-hand model.
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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 18:12:27 »
How is gaming performance left handed wise? Or off hand.

Edit: or photo immaging for that matter.
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 31 October 2012, 17:40:53 »
I made the switch to left-handed mousing after my right hand started to hurt when I went to sleep at night. The transition only took me a couple days. Maybe I'm special. I do most things with my left hand, but I write with my right hand, so that might have made the transition easier for me.

Having the mouse on the left side frees up the right hand for taking notes and using the key pad for navigating. When I have to use a right side mouse like with a co-workers computer, I have no trouble switching back to the right hand.

My left-handed dad taught me to play sports and my right-handed mom taught me the domestic things, like writing and brushing my teeth. I'm not ambidextrous, but I am a little left-hand dominant.  So the key for a seamless switch to left-handed mousing is having  parents that have different dominant handiness.

The real key is getting out of the typical mouse game altogether, like most geekhackers probably know.  Personally, I'm a trackpad man, but if I ever tried the roller mouse, I might begin to favor that.

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Offline Zustiur

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 12 November 2012, 07:42:03 »
I recently started using a left handed Evoluent V-mouse. Learning that was a breeze - the only initial problem was accuracy - and that is just a matter of time.
Even more recently I had to sit at a PC with no evoluent mice, so I tried a plain MS mouse on the left. Yuck!!! I almost immediately felt the pain in my left wrist which (in my right wrist) originally drove me to the V-Mouse 10ish years ago.
Not only did I find it hard to use, but to find that kind of pain/discomfort when I've never left-hand-normal-moused before... scarey.

Offline microsoft windows

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:16:07 »
I put the mouse on the left on some of my computing setups, in order to keep the keyboard in front of the screen instead of way off to the side. I've never had much of a problem with it.
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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 07 December 2012, 17:24:16 »
I got a left-hand Evoluent mouse and I absolutely hate it because it is so upright, and because I have to hold it in place with my thumb when I click.

The Wow Joy mouse is 10,000 times better, but they don't make a left-hand version.
What the researchers found is that after controlling for gender, age, education level, and ideology, NFC [Need for Chaos] was strongly correlated with a willingness to spread hostile rumors online. Younger, less educated men were more likely to have a strong NFC, as were people who were lonely and perceived themselves as lacking social status. NFC is associated with support for Donald Trump, which makes sense. Both Trump and to a lesser, and in a qualitatively different way, Sanders offered the 2016 electorate — including all the susceptible, alienated and disenchanted folks who comprise it — a radical departure from the norm, giving voice to sentiments that had probably been bubbling in their followers’ heads for quite a long time.

The responses to three of the statements in particular were “staggering,” the paper says: 24 percent agreed that society should be burned to the ground; 40 percent concurred with the thought that “When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking ‘just let them all burn’ ”; and 40 percent also agreed that “we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over.”

A “Need for Chaos” and the Sharing of Hostile Political Rumors in Advanced Democracies - Petersen - Osmundsen - Arceneaux 2019

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 08 December 2012, 06:38:49 »
Anyone here made the change (for the right-handers that is)? 
My hands r in so much pain I can't legally touch a mouse.

But I cheat using some tricks.  One of which is never to use my right or left hand.  But only both together.  Right hand pushes left, left hand pushes right.  Right hand pushes right mouse button.  Left hand pushes left mouse button.  It helps me to divide up the pain :(   :'(
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline asura

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 08 December 2012, 11:57:47 »
Can you manage a pen at all?  If so a tablet may be the answer, I find the pen too thick, but you may find it just right, or even to thin, in which case you could use some epoxy putty to make it conform to the shape of your hand...

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 08 December 2012, 17:47:57 »
Can you manage a pen at all? 

A real pen?  Absolutely not.  A real pen hurts me 100x to 1000x more than typing.  Its horrifically dangerous.   I had to sign (scribble) my name on some document a while back and I couldn't remember how to write certain letters.



Quote
If so a tablet may be the answer, I find the pen too thick, but you may find it just right, or even to thin, in which case you could use some epoxy putty to make it conform to the shape of your hand...
I haven't used a pen+gfx table since 1980s.  I was healthy back then... I just kept using mice though.

Thick pens are less painful for me than thin ones.  Its weird how there is such a huge difference in pain over such a small thing.

I haven't got a clue what a modern pen+tablet feels like.

I did try one of those finger tracking thingamajigs they have on laptops. owwwww... can't use that.

I am completely screwed.

Do u know of any mice that I can press the button without triggering an impact?

Like a cherry red mouse?  I could press 2mm and release.  No banging my nerves into anything.

If not then how about a mouse that has a very very small impact when pressing the button?
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline davkol

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 08 December 2012, 18:04:51 »
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 December 2018, 15:00:28 by davkol »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 08 December 2012, 18:51:17 »
A couple of months ago, somebody posted a link to a cool little device that was a transmitter of some sort.

As I remember, it was a small box that tracked your hands to replace the mouse, and cost about $70.

It was made by Apple or for Apple, I'm pretty sure.
What the researchers found is that after controlling for gender, age, education level, and ideology, NFC [Need for Chaos] was strongly correlated with a willingness to spread hostile rumors online. Younger, less educated men were more likely to have a strong NFC, as were people who were lonely and perceived themselves as lacking social status. NFC is associated with support for Donald Trump, which makes sense. Both Trump and to a lesser, and in a qualitatively different way, Sanders offered the 2016 electorate — including all the susceptible, alienated and disenchanted folks who comprise it — a radical departure from the norm, giving voice to sentiments that had probably been bubbling in their followers’ heads for quite a long time.

The responses to three of the statements in particular were “staggering,” the paper says: 24 percent agreed that society should be burned to the ground; 40 percent concurred with the thought that “When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking ‘just let them all burn’ ”; and 40 percent also agreed that “we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over.”

A “Need for Chaos” and the Sharing of Hostile Political Rumors in Advanced Democracies - Petersen - Osmundsen - Arceneaux 2019

Offline TotalChaos

  • Posts: 733
  • Location: Houston, Texas
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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 08 December 2012, 18:57:29 »
If I were you, I'd forget about mice. There's eye tracking, if you can afford it. If you can't, the most popular desktop environments have accessibility features such as click emulation. Also, have you tried big trackpad (there are some sold by Wacom, Logitech and Apple)?
  I donno anything about any of that stuff.  I will keep my eyes and brain open for them.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline davkol

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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 09 December 2012, 02:54:08 »
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 December 2018, 15:00:44 by davkol »

Offline asura

  • Posts: 262
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Re: Left hand mousing
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 10 December 2012, 12:32:00 »
Thinking about it, even with a soft felt tip on a tablet pen, it's still a bit of an impact to tap a click with it, so that might not be the answer after all.  Unless one went for major modifications, changing the microswitches part way up the pen over to cherry switches, and moulding them in with the epoxy putty...

First tester (if you were at all interested) would be to get an old pen/pencil and some epoxy putty, and a rubber/latex glove and build it up until it's comfortable to grip.  If you can move it around easily and apply a lateral force with a finger (or two) then it might be a way forwards and may give you a usable pen to boot.  If it doesn't work, you're down a few $$ in stead of a few $$$ had you tested on a proper tablet and it's an avenue you can eliminate.