Ergo Grey

[metalliqaz]

Okay, so here is the basic Cherry matrix...


The browns have a mild tactile bump and the clears have a greater tactile bump.  What I don't know is if the grey's have an even larger tactile bump.  They market the grey as a spacebar switch to go with the clears, so I am assuming that it is approximately equal, bump-wise, just with a stiffer spring.

Keeping that in mind, has anyone made ergo greys using brown springs?  Would they be equivalent to ergo clears?

PS: Can anyone say "ergo grey" without thinking of Captain Picard?

[Appeac]

I think it's more like this, since the clear stem has different tactility than brown stem.

	Light Spring	Medium Spring	Heavy Spring
Linear	Red	Black	Dark Grey
Tactile	Brown	?	Grey
Extra Tactile	Ergo Clear	Panda Clear/Tactoblack	Clear
Clicky	Blue	Green/Ghetto Green	?

[metalliqaz]

Greys aren't clicky.

[Appeac]

Greys aren't clicky.

Yeah, I hate HTML tables... My edit beat your post though!

[dorkvader]

Greys aren't clicky.

You forgot the linear gray: "Dark gray", I think it's called

I think it's more like this, since the clear stem has different tactility than brown stem.

	Light Spring	Medium Spring	Heavy Spring
Linear	Red	Black	Dark Grey
Tactile	Brown	?	Grey
Extra Tactile	Ergo Clear	Panda Clear	Clear
Clicky	Blue	Green	?

[fruktstund]

I've been meaning to try ergo greys when I receive my switches from 7bit. I'll report back before 2013.

[dirge]

Your table would suggest light grey as the missing one ;p

[metalliqaz]

Okay so I already have conflicting reports...

If Appeac's table is to be believed, then the Grey has the same tactile bump as the brown, and "ergo greys" would just be the same as browns.  Seems that would defeat the point, right Fruktstund?

[jdcarpe]

Grey stems are the same as clear stems. With a light spring from red/blue/brown switches, ergo grey = ergo clear. Just like reds and blacks have the same stem, just different color.

[metalliqaz]

Ah ha, thank you sir

[fruktstund]

So there's no actual difference at all (except for the spring and colour of course)? Kind of boring. I guess you could try ergo greys anyway for some kind of placebo effect though.

[metalliqaz]

I want to mod my Filco to ergo clears but I'll probably try ergo greys.  What the heck, at least they'll be (slightly) more unique.

[xJaPx]

are dark grey stems shaped any differently vs red/black stems?

[nullstring]

Grey stems are the same as clear stems. With a light spring from red/blue/brown switches, ergo grey = ergo clear. Just like reds and blacks have the same stem, just different color.

Are you sure on this?
Clear stems would then make up the following:
Ergo Clear, Panda Clear, Clear, Grey.
So, we have four spring types?

I always thought grey was brown with a stiffer spring.
EDIT: Nope, I'm wrong. Greys are different than browns, and do seem to probably be stiffer clears.

Someone who knows what they are talking about should make a table and put it on the wiki.

[IvanIvanovich]

same stem: (red, black, L grey) (blue, green, white) (clear, T grey)
same spring: (red, brown, blue) (L grey, T grey, green) I think clear and white may have the same spring based on the force, but haven't verified.

[alaricljs]

white stems are technically different from blue/green due to the oddly muffled click.  I haven't figured out how they did that tho.

Also, white and clear are not the same spring.

[IvanIvanovich]

They may feel different, but visually they appear to have come from the same molds. Has anyone put blue spring in white and see if it still has the dampened feel? Wondering if it just due to such a heavy spring.

[xJaPx]

same stem: (red, black, L grey) (blue, green, white) (clear, T grey)
same spring: (red, brown, blue) (L grey, T grey, green) I think clear and white may have the same spring based on the force, but haven't verified.

thanks for the clarification

[nullstring]

same stem: (red, black, L grey) (blue, green, white) (clear, T grey)
same spring: (red, brown, blue) (L grey, T grey, green) I think clear and white may have the same spring based on the force, but haven't verified.

That doesn't coincide with my understanding.

Please point out my misinformation:

• Ghetto Greens are Blue stems, Black springs per http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=30234.0
• Panda Clears are clear stems, black springs. (Lighter then clears)
  
• Clear springs are heavier than black springs.
• Grey is heavier than Clears, so their springs must be even heavier (much more so than green/black) [Assuming Grey and clear have the same stem]

[Appeac]

Someone who knows what they are talking about should make a table and put it on the wiki.

Lol, agreed. Finding out I don't know as much about them as I thought!

[IvanIvanovich]

There used to be a very good wiki page for MX switches on the old site. Shame that jerk wrecked all the wiki.

[dorkvader]

They may feel different, but visually they appear to have come from the same molds. Has anyone put blue spring in white and see if it still has the dampened feel? Wondering if it just due to such a heavy spring.

I dedicated a few hours to green/white keyboard science a while back and took a ton of pictures and data. I'll take apart my spare blues and a green and a white after work, and report back with the findings.

[metalliqaz]

DT wiki to the rescue.  Photo of grey stem next to brown stem

Cherry's own spec sheet shows some interesting actuation forces, which are affected by the spring and the bump.

black - 2.1 oz.
grey 37 - 2.8 oz.
clear - 2.3 oz.
tactile grey 39 - 2.8 oz.
tactile click blue - 2.1 oz.
tactile click green - 2.8 oz.

So apparently blues require the same actuation force as blacks

[Appeac]

So does anyone know how many springs they actually make?

[sth]

DT wiki to the rescue.  Photo of grey stem next to brown stem

Cherry's own spec sheet shows some interesting actuation forces, which are affected by the spring and the bump.

black - 2.1 oz.
grey 37 - 2.8 oz.
clear - 2.3 oz.
tactile grey 39 - 2.8 oz.
tactile click blue - 2.1 oz.
tactile click green - 2.8 oz.

So apparently blues require the same actuation force as blacks

you're correct, but the keypress required force dips after the bump so they don't feel as heavy throughout the stroke.
appeac it's at least three currently (ZF-era cherry). could have been 4-5 during the 'golden' age. also not counting the spring in the MX LOCK switch which I believe is pretty heavy.

[metalliqaz]

Still waiting to see someone with a programmable board replace CapsLock with a an MX locking switch.

[Appeac]

Still waiting to see someone with a programmable board replace CapsLock with a an MX locking switch.

When next phantom gb comes around I was planning on getting a lock switch so I could have a starcraft layer and a normal typing layer.

[alaricljs]

Locking switches are neat and all, but you can do that in firmware without them too.

[metalliqaz]

What I was talking about was to "unstick" the caps in software and use hardware instead.  So it would be an actual physical manifestation of the lock.  I think that would be pretty cool.

[dorkvader]

So I took apart some spare switches, put a green stem over a brown switch's spring (two of my blues had different springs, They feel the same, so I don't know what's up there. Maybe I modd'd one and don't remember). Unsurprisingly, it felt like a blue. I did the same thing with a white, and it's just as "deadened" as before, but much lighter. I really like it.

I only got to try one, but I'd say that these "light whites" are much better than blues.

[sth]

So I took apart some spare switches, put a green stem over a brown switch's spring (two of my blues had different springs, They feel the same, so I don't know what's up there. Maybe I modd'd one and don't remember). Unsurprisingly, it felt like a blue. I did the same thing with a white, and it's just as "deadened" as before, but much lighter. I really like it.

I only got to try one, but I'd say that these "light whites" are much better than blues.

good to know, i've been planning on doing 'light' whites for a while.

follow the white light!

[rmw2013]

I'm making some ergo grey switches right now. (couldnt find clears so using grey) Using 62G springs.

[jdcarpe]

N-n-n-necro bump.