do double-shots ever wear out?

[phx]

one thing I cannot stand is feeling the prints on my caps, so this reduces me down to:
- blanks
- dye-sub
- double-shot

dye sub I know you cant feel it, but what about double-shots? From what I heard after a long time of use it can wear out and you can actually start to feel the lettering, is this true for any of you?

thanks!

[fl0w3n]

The "keycap" and the letter are going to wear the same, unless you somehow avoid touching the letter part it's entire life.

I'm currently typing on double shots from ~1980, and I can't feel any difference between the letter and key. 

[phx]

The "keycap" and the letter are going to wear the same, unless you somehow avoid touching the letter part it's entire life.

I'm currently typing on double shots from ~1980, and I can't feel any difference between the letter and key. 

awesome, thanks for the input!

[Vintage]

I don't own any doubleshots... but I would think that the person above is correct. Doubleshot means the legend is a different colored plastics in the mold of the base piece. That is why the legends never fade, because the legend goes all the way through the cap.

So you would need to wear the base at a different rate than the plastic of the legend, which I would think, is pretty unlikely.


Regardless, I would recommend Dyesub PBT because they don't "shine" as fast/feel better. The only advantage of doubleshots is more detailed legends/colors. Unless you need backlighting.

[jeroplane]

Yes, the legend will never fade but the top of the key will shine uniformly. I haven't heard of anyone ever having problems with feeling the legend, and I certainly haven't.

But Vintage's recommendation regarding PBTs is correct. But the feel of the key material is subjective.

[phx]

yep I ordered a set of dye-sub PBT from the recent group buy, really looking forward to laying my fingers on some PBT.

the set I currently use claims to be PBT, I kinda doubt it.

[The_Ed]

Doubleshots are the best and never wear out. I sell hundreds of them on GH and DT. I've got new full set stock too. You can even see the texture in this pic.



Sadly they aren't for the light of wallet...

[csimi]

They get shiny.
Why doesn't anyone make doubleshot PBT or doubleshot aluminium keycaps?

[jeroplane]

They get shiny.
Why doesn't anyone make doubleshot PBT or doubleshot aluminium keycaps?

PBT doesn't cooperate with the molding process like ABS does. It's very difficult to do. Although there were reports of one company finally making them commercially.

As for aluminium, there's a whole new range of problems there... Metal is completely different to plastic.

[phx]

They get shiny.
Why doesn't anyone make doubleshot PBT or doubleshot aluminium keycaps?

PBT doesn't cooperate with the molding process like ABS does. It's very difficult to do. Although there were reports of one company finally making them commercially.

As for aluminium, there's a whole new range of problems there... Metal is completely different to plastic.

why do people like aluminium? I doubt they would feel better compared to plastic.

[JaccoW]

I still want companies to use something other that ABS, PBT or POM. Why not PEEK if we are to choose a really good plastic? Well, okay besides price perhaps.

[phx]

I still want companies to use something other that ABS, PBT or POM. Why not PEEK if we are to choose a really good plastic? Well, okay besides price perhaps.

highly doubt companies will use any of those expensive plastics, they are hard to market toward the general audience, especially when the price is higher.

[fohat.digs]

I am typing on a keyboard with PBT (IBM Model F) that was manufactured during President Reagan's first term, and there is not much shine on the caps. I can't say how many hours of use it has sustained during that time, but old-school IBM keys last a LONG LONG TIME and still feel great.

On the other hand, I have ABS doubleshots a fraction of that age that still look great, but feel terrible because they are worn so slick.

Everyone is different, feel is more important than look, to me.

[dorkvader]

If you still enjoy your slick doubleshots (like me) then they will probably take at least a decade to wear out (Depending on how much you use them). I have a moder F, like foghat.digs, and the keys show little (if any) shine. Even the spacebar has it's full texture. The keycaps do have a different texture compared with my new unicomp keycaps (also PBT). I prefer the older ones, but the new ones are also great.

Dyesub PBT is also not for the feint of wallet, but it is by far my favourite plastic for keycaps. I haven't tried Nylon (zowie, celeritas I think?) or Polycarbonate (feng's limited edition clear blanks) though.

Moulding metal is indeed usually pretty different than plastic, but PIM (Powder Injection Moulding) is still somewhat similar across metal, ceramic, and plastic, though oftentimes, you need a vacuum oven to prevent oxidation (burning).

[BLJ Consulting]

here are some pictures of 2 shot key that i carved up; i don't think anyone can wear away this much of the plastic.
Also i know my photos are not up to GH standards.

[hashbaz]

Yeah doubleshot legends do not wear out, for all real intents and purposes.  They do become shiny as has been pointed out.

PBT looks and feels great but dyesub legends just don't look as nice IMO.  It's a trade-off.

[esoomenona]

Doubleshot

[natas206]

If you have long finger nails over time even double shots can be worn down. I've seen some pretty bad double shot keycaps in my days.

[Vintage]

I am typing on a keyboard with PBT (IBM Model F) that was manufactured during President Reagan's first term, and there is not much shine on the caps. I can't say how many hours of use it has sustained during that time, but old-school IBM keys last a LONG LONG TIME and still feel great.

On the other hand, I have ABS doubleshots a fraction of that age that still look great, but feel terrible because they are worn so slick.

Everyone is different, feel is more important than look, to me.

Yeah, I use an old IBM POS at work, and I am 99% sure that it uses dyesub PBT. It feels great and the legends have not faded at all, despite the obvious sign of heavy usage. Also, they are not shiny at all.

The over-sized space bar stabilizers are broken though.

They are selling one just like it here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-POS-Cash-Register-Keyboard-4690-3324-92F6271-/370616342526

[squarebox]

I highly doubt anyone has manage to wear out double shots from normal usage. Shiny at most.

Anyways, here's a video:

[rowdy]

And if they do get shiny, you can just sand them down a bit.

[Bry]

A fourth option that you didn't mention is front printed ABS caps. Qtan usually has them on his ebay store in black and white.

I think he's out of stock of the white 104 set though, since I tried to order it a couple weeks ago and we had to agree to cancel the order. I haven't heard back yet on when he plans to have more. He has black sets in stock I think.

[dorkvader]

I highly doubt anyone has manage to wear out double shots from normal usage. Shiny at most.

Anyways, here's a video:

It's not doubleshot, but if you use your computer enough, you will wear through.

[rowdy]

The keyboard of a gamer who retreats a lot!

[The_Ed]

I have linked that keyboard many times. It was a medical transcriptionist's, NOT a gamer's.

[rowdy]

Ah, ok.

LOL

And anyway, we're not retreating, we're just advancing in a different direction!

[fl0w3n]

I thought we had decided that image depicts damage from something other than normal wear?

The image came to mind when I first came across the thread. 

[Sifo]

Typical Zerg player

[dorkvader]

I have linked that keyboard many times. It was a medical transcriptionist's, NOT a gamer's.

FWIW, I knew this already. It's also lasered, not doubleshot.

Also, if they were gaming on it, clearly, they were playing portal, where you go faster backwards.
---
But that picture is one excellent reason why I do PBT over ABS. I disagree with others: The printing on PBT is in no way blurry.

[hashbaz]

That picture is just silly.  And to each his own of course, but dyesub legends are not as crisp as doubleshot.

[Hak Foo]

Looks like a Chicony rubber dome I know... the darkening in the laser-etched symbols is actually fading on some of the letter keys.

I could see the fill plastic having a different wear profile than the main key, resulting in feeling the characters raised or sunk slightly, but that's speculation.

[Malerik]

They get shiny.
Why doesn't anyone make doubleshot PBT or doubleshot aluminium keycaps?

PBT doesn't cooperate with the molding process like ABS does. It's very difficult to do. Although there were reports of one company finally making them commercially.

As for aluminium, there's a whole new range of problems there... Metal is completely different to plastic.

Aren't Deck Boards doubleshot PBT? Mechanical Keyboard guide seems to claim they are, or at least TG3 uses the process, but then later on refers to them as a dye sub.

[natas206]

I've personally seen double shot keycaps that looked a lot like that image. Wish I would have taken pictures.

It's rare and I'm sure takes years and years to do.

[Skull_Angel]

Aren't Deck Boards doubleshot PBT? Mechanical Keyboard guide seems to claim they are, or at least TG3 uses the process, but then later on refers to them as a dye sub.

They're skirted with a negative dye-sub for legend.