Author Topic: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?  (Read 33092 times)

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Offline davkol

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #100 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 18:07:06 »
What's UEFI BIOS? O.o

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #101 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 18:18:41 »
What's UEFI BIOS? O.o
usually referring to the new clicky BIOS's but UEFI is only standard to allow booting off 3TB drives (and possibly mice) and replaces the BIOS  and a bunch of other things that let the OS talk to the hardware easier and better. Lots of motherboard manufacturers just decided to add the mouse features with it which i find rather stupid because when the average joe sees and overclock button they can click theyll do it (or that is at least my experience).

Offline davkol

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #102 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 18:49:57 »
Well, thanks for explanation, but I just wanted to point out that so-called UEFI BIOS is nothing but a marketing buzzword, because UEFI _replaces_ BIOS (as you've mentioned).

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:27:18 »
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:28:07 »
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Offline cytoSiN

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:35:12 »
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:40:53 »
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
Who builds a pc and doesnt tweak BIOS settings?

Also im so happy most of the Intel MB's ive worked on lately have a legacy mode FTW!

Offline cytoSiN

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:43:15 »
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
Who builds a pc and doesnt tweak BIOS settings?

Also im so happy most of the Intel MB's ive worked on lately have a legacy mode FTW!

True enough.  I've had the pleasure of playing around with Asus' latest iterations of UEFI and I really like the funtionality.  But I've only used Windows 8 so far on my Ultrabook.  If I ever get a large enough touchscreen to justify installing Windows 8 on a desktop, it'll be fun to test how UEFI integrates...from what I've read on that front, it's all good.  Call me old fashioned but I still love my Win7 on the desktops I build.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:53:33 »
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
Who builds a pc and doesnt tweak BIOS settings?

Also im so happy most of the Intel MB's ive worked on lately have a legacy mode FTW!

True enough.  I've had the pleasure of playing around with Asus' latest iterations of UEFI and I really like the funtionality.  But I've only used Windows 8 so far on my Ultrabook.  If I ever get a large enough touchscreen to justify installing Windows 8 on a desktop, it'll be fun to test how UEFI integrates...from what I've read on that front, it's all good.  Call me old fashioned but I still love my Win7 on the desktops I build.
Go Win8 its snappy!

Offline rowdy

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 18 December 2012, 20:55:33 »
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?


Unified Extensible Firmware Interface

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uefi
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Internetlad

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #110 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 12:30:29 »
basically, as I understand it, it's the bridge between your motherboard's BIOS and your OS/software. Allows for a more "tuned up" transition from motherboard->storage media/hdd

I still ignore the mouse in the UEFI BIOS and use KB because it's still faster lol.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #111 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 13:24:56 »
basically, as I understand it, it's the bridge between your motherboard's firmware and your OS/software.
FTFY

If you use UEFI, there's probably no BIOS. BIOS is *replaced* by UEFI.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #112 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 15:13:46 »
basically, as I understand it, it's the bridge between your motherboard's firmware and your OS/software.
FTFY

If you use UEFI, there's probably no BIOS. BIOS is *replaced* by UEFI.
some motherboards do allow you to run both or one or the other.

Offline davkol

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #113 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:51:54 »
Hence "probably". Although, that doesn't change anything on the fact that UEFI is replacement for BIOS. So is for example Coreboot (even though things get a bit complicated with different layers, such as a BIOS running on the top of Coreboot).

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #114 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:55:54 »
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

Offline cytoSiN

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #115 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:57:52 »
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #116 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 17:02:55 »
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
well microsoft may be thinking of doing that they fired the guy who made metro.... and their enterprise customers say they wont buy without a start menu so they dont have to retrain amoung other things

and start 8 is tiny its a very small mod no impact on the system really.

Offline cytoSiN

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #117 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 17:06:15 »
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
well microsoft may be thinking of doing that they fired the guy who made metro.... and their enterprise customers say they wont buy without a start menu so they dont have to retrain amoung other things

and start 8 is tiny its a very small mod no impact on the system really.

I saw that they fired that guy.  Interesting.  I know Start8 is tiny and unobtrusive, it's just frustrating that MS basically told us to pound sand and left the functionality to the hackers instead of just including the option to begin with.  I will be thrilled if they add that option through a small windowsupdate, or even in a service pack.  But the sooner, the better.  Like I said previously, I like Metro for touchscreen devices and live tiles, but most of us live in the Desktop side of things when doing anything related to "productivity," and it's just silly to reinvent the wheel this many versions in.  Shows a lack of forethought and judgment, in my opinion of course.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #118 on: Wed, 19 December 2012, 17:07:24 »
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
well microsoft may be thinking of doing that they fired the guy who made metro.... and their enterprise customers say they wont buy without a start menu so they dont have to retrain amoung other things

and start 8 is tiny its a very small mod no impact on the system really.

I saw that they fired that guy.  Interesting.  I know Start8 is tiny and unobtrusive, it's just frustrating that MS basically told us to pound sand and left the functionality to the hackers instead of just including the option to begin with.  I will be thrilled if they add that option through a small windowsupdate, or even in a service pack.  But the sooner, the better.  Like I said previously, I like Metro for touchscreen devices and live tiles, but most of us live in the Desktop side of things when doing anything related to "productivity," and it's just silly to reinvent the wheel this many versions in.  Shows a lack of forethought and judgment, in my opinion of course.
my guess is the option is going to be in the first service pack.

Offline daerid

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #119 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 03:05:55 »
Honestly, I'm surprised Windows 8 is getting so much hate here on GH, as it's vastly more keyboard friendly than Windows 7 was. I've been using it since RTM (early August), and it's been rock solid. And I don't even notice the Metro stuff any more. Although since getting acclimated to it, I find it much more superior to the start menu.

People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #120 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 03:09:10 »
Actually there is a good chance businesses might change his mind.

Offline daerid

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #121 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 13:56:25 »
True. I'm not saying that what they did with Windows 8 is the best way to go about things. I personally think that they should have either gone whole hog with the Metro thing, or kept it out of Windows 8.

My biggest beef with Windows 8 is that the entire Metro side of things is on DirectWrite for font rendering, and when I get back to the desktop it's back to ClearType. Really, really jarring. But all in all that's relatively minor.

Even though Windows 8 feels unfinished, and nowhere near as cohesive and polished as Windows 7 is, I still think that Windows needs a bit of a shake-up to stay relevant in the face of the new iOS/Android world. There's bound to be some growing pains, and I personally can't wait for Windows 9.

Offline Vintage

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #122 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 18:13:08 »
I heard you get better FPS on windows 8..... not sure if It's worth it to switch though.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #123 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:50:49 »
I heard you get better FPS on GNU/Linux than Windows ... not sure if it's worth it to switch though.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline davkol

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #124 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 06:50:16 »
I heard you get better FPS on GNU/Linux than Windows ... not sure if it's worth it to switch though.
Just because of better FPS? No, it's not Windows for free.

Offline Internetlad

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #125 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 12:27:56 »
I heard you get better FPS if you play DOOM on MS-DOS instead. . .  not sure if it's worth it to switch though.

OR

I heard you get a better apocalypse in 2060 than 2012. . . not sure if it's worth it to wait though.
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Offline iri

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #126 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 12:44:08 »
I heard you get better FPS on GNU/Linux than Windows ... not sure if it's worth it to switch though.
Just because of better FPS? No, it's not Windows for free.
it's much more.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #127 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 13:08:52 »
I'd say it's rather something different.

Offline longweight

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #128 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 13:12:06 »
Do not buy a Windows 8 phone, it is so so **** that I am going to sell my 920 and go back to Android.

Offline daerid

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #129 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 01:37:30 »
I f**king LOVED my HD7. I'm really interesting in trying out WP8. You couldn't pay me enough money to go back to Android.

Offline Noko

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #130 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 17:50:05 »
I think the best thing about Windows 8 is that I only had to pay $40 to finally get rid of Vista Home Premium on my gaming machine.  It really only took 15 minutes to make the interface usable, too (except for not being able to change window title text from black without editing the registry, what the hell).
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Offline longweight

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #131 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 18:08:49 »
DO NOT BUY A WIN8 PHONE.

Offline daerid

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #132 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 22:34:47 »
DO NOT BUY A WIN8 PHONE.

Care to elaborate?

Offline lazerpointer

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #133 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 18:48:30 »
rant;

Win 8 is a terrible mouse and keyboard experience.

You have to click like 4 to 6 times to do something very trivial that would have taken 2 mouse clicks in Win7. (what I mean is the navigation.

User Account Control in Win8 is OMG bad. User account can NOT have UAC turned off which is Annoying. This means you have to literally enter in the admin account credentials every single time you launch an app... I've resorted to copy / paste from a text file, but still it's freaking annoying..

The decision to put Windows 8 on every single PC going forward is frankly retarded. What if you don't use touch? What if you don't have a tablet?

Lastly, I hate win8 because it's so damn buggy. At my job we have to work with it daily and I must say it's driven me more and more insane as the days go by. I have to develop test plans around it... and it's not as simple as Win7.

/rant

That being said, this will be nice in tablet form, and it will be useful to have the new RTE for application integration with Windows phones / tablets..... But that just tells you what Microsoft's vision for the world is. Screw that. Power to Linux!! Power to open source!!!
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Offline daerid

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #134 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 21:59:48 »
rant;

Win 8 is a terrible mouse and keyboard experience.

Subjective opinion. My experience has shown precisely the opposite. So I could easily say "Win 8 is a phenomenal mouse and keyboard experience". Which it is. For me at least.

Quote
You have to click like 4 to 6 times to do something very trivial that would have taken 2 mouse clicks in Win7. (what I mean is the navigation.

Examples? I find stuff in Win8 much faster than in Win7, with less keystrokes and less mouse clicks.

Quote
User Account Control in Win8 is OMG bad. User account can NOT have UAC turned off which is Annoying. This means you have to literally enter in the admin account credentials every single time you launch an app... I've resorted to copy / paste from a text file, but still it's freaking annoying..

I'm pretty sure this isn't true. This was the first thing I turned off after upgrading. Start+W -> "uac" -> Enter.

And if a normal user needs to do that many things with Admin credentials, that user should probably just be an Admin.

Quote
The decision to put Windows 8 on every single PC going forward is frankly retarded. What if you don't use touch? What if you don't have a tablet?

I use Windows 8 on my desktop. No touch. No tablet. It's glorious.

Quote
Lastly, I hate win8 because it's so damn buggy. At my job we have to work with it daily and I must say it's driven me more and more insane as the days go by. I have to develop test plans around it... and it's not as simple as Win7.

I have had it installed for 5 months straight, working on it 8+ hours a day, and it hasn't crashed once. Not a single time. And I do software development for a living.

Quote
That being said, this will be nice in tablet form, and it will be useful to have the new RTE for application integration with Windows phones / tablets..... But that just tells you what Microsoft's vision for the world is. Screw that. Power to Linux!! Power to open source!!!

:rolleyes:

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #135 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:08:58 »
rant;

Win 8 is a terrible mouse and keyboard experience.

Subjective opinion. My experience has shown precisely the opposite. So I could easily say "Win 8 is a phenomenal mouse and keyboard experience". Which it is. For me at least.

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You have to click like 4 to 6 times to do something very trivial that would have taken 2 mouse clicks in Win7. (what I mean is the navigation.

Examples? I find stuff in Win8 much faster than in Win7, with less keystrokes and less mouse clicks.

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User Account Control in Win8 is OMG bad. User account can NOT have UAC turned off which is Annoying. This means you have to literally enter in the admin account credentials every single time you launch an app... I've resorted to copy / paste from a text file, but still it's freaking annoying..

I'm pretty sure this isn't true. This was the first thing I turned off after upgrading. Start+W -> "uac" -> Enter.

And if a normal user needs to do that many things with Admin credentials, that user should probably just be an Admin.

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The decision to put Windows 8 on every single PC going forward is frankly retarded. What if you don't use touch? What if you don't have a tablet?

I use Windows 8 on my desktop. No touch. No tablet. It's glorious.

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Lastly, I hate win8 because it's so damn buggy. At my job we have to work with it daily and I must say it's driven me more and more insane as the days go by. I have to develop test plans around it... and it's not as simple as Win7.

I have had it installed for 5 months straight, working on it 8+ hours a day, and it hasn't crashed once. Not a single time. And I do software development for a living.

Quote
That being said, this will be nice in tablet form, and it will be useful to have the new RTE for application integration with Windows phones / tablets..... But that just tells you what Microsoft's vision for the world is. Screw that. Power to Linux!! Power to open source!!!

:rolleyes:
same experiencd 100% on multiple pcs

Offline precarious

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #136 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:24:08 »
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #137 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:37:14 »
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?
that has nothing to do with the start menu as its not needed for life itself, muchless computing.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #138 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:42:23 »
My PC is not a goddamn smartphone.

Offline precarious

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #139 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 07:17:36 »
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?
that has nothing to do with the start menu as its not needed for life itself, muchless computing.

Computing is not needed for life.  What are you saying?  What is your point?  Did you even spend any time thinking about what I said, or respond to it viscerally without any degree of cognition whatsoever?

The problem with the statement is the suggestion that it is advisable to change a fundamental means of interacting with a given system, defended only by the patently false supposition that "all change is good."  So, if all change is good, how about this:  you're alive.  I think you should be dead.

Now do you still agree that all change is good?

Arguments exist in abstract and a given premise can be extrapolated appropriately to other contexts.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #140 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 08:23:45 »
Yes changed is good it spurs evolution which definitly applies to OS's

Offline Internetlad

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #141 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 11:48:03 »
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?

So, you're saying you DON'T want to live in a world where we get nutrients from patches, can live in a zero-oxygen enviroment, and can use telepathy?

Bonus points if this world includes not having to sleep, or only having to sleep a couple hours a day.
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Offline precarious

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #142 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 13:11:33 »
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?

So, you're saying you DON'T want to live in a world where we get nutrients from patches, can live in a zero-oxygen enviroment, and can use telepathy?

Bonus points if this world includes not having to sleep, or only having to sleep a couple hours a day.

While I do agree with the proposed sentiment, and will also add that these are things I have previously wished for personally, it should be more or less apparent that this would invariably end in the ultimate trivialization of human life, thus making it completely unnecessary.

While the Start menu could be reasonably subject to a number of improvements, there is really no rationally defensible basis for its complete eradication in favor of an inferior "tile" format.

Offline Internetlad

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #143 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 14:04:50 »
While the Start menu could be reasonably subject to a number of improvements, there is really no rationally defensible basis for its complete eradication in favor of an inferior "tile" format.

Use windows 7 on a touch-screen, then you'll know why they opted for metro for win8.

Honestly, it IS really nice for touch, and, honestly, it's not that bad for keyboard and mouse. If you really hate it that much just pin the programs you use on the taskbar or put them on the desktop.

If you want to find anything (ANYTHING) hit winkey and start typing. The search function can find whatever you're looking for.

Everybody seems sad to see the start menu go, but it didn't do anything spectacular that can't be worked around.
"Beep . . . Beep . . . Beep" -Sputnik I


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Offline precarious

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #144 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 15:21:40 »
I'm perfectly fine with added functionality.  That argument doesn't require any defense.

The problem is reduced functionality.  I am one of the fastest typists to have ever lived.

http://data.typeracer.com/pit/profile?user=cmalmquist
http://data.typeracer.com/pit/profile?user=precariousgray

Pressing the left Windows key and immediately clicking on something pinned to the start menu is far less obtrusive than having an arbitrary slathering of icons constantly within my field of vision, and clearly much faster than having to move both hands to the keyboard to "search."

This is identical to the fundamental aspects of human cognition which dictate that living in a cluttered environment rife with trash and filth will also unconsciously affect the ordered thinking of an individual.

So, you're suggesting that living in a pile of filth is fine, so long as we can navigate around it.;

No.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #145 on: Sun, 20 January 2013, 13:55:47 »
Pin to task bar and hide taskbar. Also create folders on your desktop and add desktop to your taskbar should be great for what your looking for.


One of the main reasons microsoft dropped the start menu was due to pin to taskbar.
« Last Edit: Sun, 20 January 2013, 13:57:42 by TheProfosist »

Offline daerid

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #146 on: Mon, 21 January 2013, 01:23:19 »
Computing is not needed for life.  What are you saying?  What is your point?  Did you even spend any time thinking about what I said, or respond to it viscerally without any degree of cognition whatsoever?

The problem with the statement is the suggestion that it is advisable to change a fundamental means of interacting with a given system, defended only by the patently false supposition that "all change is good."  So, if all change is good, how about this:  you're alive.  I think you should be dead.

Now do you still agree that all change is good?

Arguments exist in abstract and a given premise can be extrapolated appropriately to other contexts.

Yes, but only up to a point. After that, it's been abstracted out to such a degree that it doesn't even make any sense anymore.

I never once said "all change is good", and that wasn't my argument. I said that Windows is due for a change. My point is that computing is in it's infancy, and it's shortsighted to think that any particular paradigm that we have come up with is the "best" in such a short time.

That means we need to try out many different ways of doing things. It may end up that a start button/menu is indeed the best paradigm. But I wouldn't feel comfortable coming to that conclusion until a larger set of alternatives had been attempted.

Offline daerid

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #147 on: Mon, 21 January 2013, 01:25:21 »
While the Start menu could be reasonably subject to a number of improvements, there is really no rationally defensible basis for its complete eradication in favor of an inferior "tile" format.

Except that stating that the "tile" format is inferior is subjective opinion. I can easily and just as validly state that the start menu is the inferior format, and there's no rationally defensible basis for holding on to it in light of an available superior format.

Offline tufty

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Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #148 on: Mon, 21 January 2013, 02:33:33 »
Except that stating that the "tile" format is inferior is subjective opinion. I can easily and just as validly state that the start menu is the inferior format, and there's no rationally defensible basis for holding on to it in light of an available superior format.
Indeed.  Personally, I find both approaches aggressively user-hostile, at least when the user's me. But then I spend most of my time in front of a mac, and have done since '87.  I've tried to like windows, but it invariably has me tearing my hair out and screaming obscenities.

In most cases, there's a lot of "you like what you're used to", and any change that means hunting around looking for stuff you have assigned to muscle memory is going to be taken very badly - hence a certain amount of the inertia in the computing world overall.  QWERTY keyboards, or example, are physically damaging, have no reason to exist since the early 1900s, but how many people, even here in a forum of people who like / want quality keyboards, are interested in learning a new layout, let alone buying something like a Maltron or a Kinesis.  Hell, the much-lusted after, sells for >$1000, m15 might be "ergonomically split", but it's only really a "standard" QWERTY board that's been cut in half and had a funky (and fragile) joint added. Mobile phones and tablets, which are about as far removed as is possible from an 1890's mechanical typewriter, still default to a staggered QWERTY layout for their onscreen keyboards.  And don't get me started on spreadsheets...

The really important advances in computing will be a helluva lot more radical than "replacing one broken UI paradigm with another". As such they will probably fail to get traction.

So.  Why do people bash Windows 8 so much?  Because it forces them to learn a different UI paradigm, but brings no actual benefits in terms of usability above any that the UI might hypothetically bring them (but which hypothetical benefits will be rejected, at least initially, by the majority of users, due to inertia).  The applications themselves, the reason one uses the computer, remain the same.  So it's seen, perhaps with a good deal of reason, as change for change's sake, unification for the benefit of MS who (once they have eradicated the "classic" interface) only have to deal with one set of APIs.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 January 2013, 02:39:20 by tufty »

Offline daerid

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Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
« Reply #149 on: Mon, 21 January 2013, 03:10:22 »
Good points regarding inertia. Most new UI changes in an OS  cause people to get up in arms, and then by version 2 most don't understand how they lived without it.