College Grads on GH

[BoxWithADot]

Just wondering how many of you are college grads on Geekhack, if I had to guess it seems like it would be a fair number. It also seems like many of you are involved in IT/Programming fields. The reason I'm wondering is because lately I feel like college is a waste of time, and I'm paying for a piece of paper that won't particularly matter once I have 4-5 years of job experience. I'm currently studying computer science, I find the coursework interesting but not particularly useful with regards to real world scenarios. The "core curriculum" classes like political science are a complete waste of time IMO. Just curious about what GH thinks about the subject, especially those of you working in IT/programming.

[kmiller8]

I'm going to be starting my 6th semester in the fall, and as a College student who is working at the same time in a possible field I could go into after school. You've hit the nail on the head.

Until you have that piece of paper, companies won't even look at you. Be thankful you're getting a somewhat useful degree out of it at least, unlike some business or arts or english degree.

I'm getting a Computer Engineering degree, and I'm working in an IT-like environment, however I'm kinda cheating since I'm working for a local government, they hire people based off of who you know, as opposed to what you know.

Also like you mentioned, I've talked to some senior-level students, and some recent grads, and the major deciding factor when you go to get your first job is your GPA, so do whatever you can to keep that up (or just lie on a job application, they won't care to check it)

I'm not sure about CS jobs, but I know in order to get any serious kind of Engineering job, you need a college level education (whatever that means) and depending on what you do, I think some sort of PE or FE or something, I'll worry more about it when the time comes.

What I've learned so far from my experiences, is that in the real world, all that matters is, 1. You have a piece of paper saying "Yes, I've wasted 16+ years of my life to get this", 2. You need to get to know the company before you even think about applying for a job, an internship or w/e is more valuable than some random coming in and saying "herp derp I have a 3.8 hire me pls", 3. Be grateful you like what you're doing, I have so many bull**** classes WITHIN my major that I'll never touch in the real world (I'm looking at you telecom.....) but I can understand why they're doing it, just to have a well-rounded kind of person who can then go into a serious field and then specialize in something to make the buku $$$.

I might be a bit biased telling you to stay in college because I have scholarships and whatnot paying tuition+fees for me :s

TL;DR : Keep up with college, yes it's a huge waste of time, but It'll be more useful than hurtful in the long run...

[emptythecache]

Software engineer here. Got a bachelors in computer science, graduated in 2009, was totally worthwhile for me. While its true that your experience a few years down the road is more important than your degree, having a degree is going to help you get a job in the first place. I can't personally speak to the trouble people in our generation are having finding employment out of school because I was very lucky to graduate in January instead of May, and not have a lot of competition. What I will say is, the job market may be crowded, but you're much more likely to be hired with a degree than without.

[1391401]

Degree helped me get my current job and as you say current job will help me get another job if need be. 

[thegunner100]

College sophomore here, on my third semester (overall). I'm currently working towards a Health Science degree, but mostly been taking generic required classes so far. I have my first final of the semester coming up in two days, and 3 more finals after that. I haven't been doing well in my classes this semester due to various life issues, but I've been slowly trying to catch up. I don't know if my effort is enough, or if it's too late to matter. As of right now, my willpower to study is very low.

What I've "learned" so far, I feel is gonna be completely useless when I'm out working; I've even been told that my some of my relatives. My uncle has told me many times to just consider getting a teaching degree or trying to get a government job. That might be the way for me to go, as I really don't have the ambition or drive to get into many fields. I haven't thought too far into the future yet, but maybe it's about time that I do.

Good luck to those who are taking finals soon!

[metalliqaz]

At my company you are barred from advancing to certain grades unless you have the diploma.

[bavman]

I will be a college grad after next semester

...but then 4 more years of grad school....I'm tired of this crap

[BoxWithADot]

My problem is that I have a mediocre GPA, and I don't really foresee it getting too much better over time (I predict graduating with a 2.5-3.0).. So when I get my degree I feel like it won't even be particularly helpful with netting a first job.. I feel like I could better spend my time networking and trying to get jobs contracting for small businesses, contributing to open source, basically doing anything but spending the next 2 years burning my parents money on tuition.. I just wish there was a simple answer *sigh*

[thegunner100]

^same here, I started the semester with a 2.98 and I feel like it's gonna drop once I'm done with the semester xD

Edit: just read your PM!

[ekw808]

I will be a college grad after next semester

...but then 4 more years of grad school....I'm tired of this crap

You hate school your entire life, and the second you are done with it, you'll wish you were back in it.

[whiskerBox]

Yep finals sucks! I am set to graduate next semester with a CIS degree if I don't mess up tomorrow lol. I hated the first bit of college, but things don't really get relevant until your last year. I currently work as a programmer, but I would have never got the job if I wasn't in school. So yeah it sucks at first, then it sucks a little bit less and a little bit less  . I feel like I have learned more in the last year working, but I would have never had that opportunity without school.

[bavman]

I will be a college grad after next semester

...but then 4 more years of grad school....I'm tired of this crap

You hate school your entire life, and the second you are done with it, you'll wish you were back in it.

Well I actually love the college life, its great besides the no money thing. It's just the large amount of time needed to study to get good grades that I don't like. And that's typically because I have no motivation to do anything until the night before and I end up pulling all nighters...a big mess

[thegunner100]

I feel like im gonna go into major depressive mode once I take my finals and find out my grades.

[keyboardlover]

The degree is NOT just important for landing your first job. Also, when companies have layoffs, often those without degrees are among the first to go.

[iri]

no idea who is a "college grad" or what is a "grad school". a have a university diploma in applied maths.

[BoxWithADot]

no idea who is a "college grad" or what is a "grad school". a have a university diploma in applied maths.

That makes you a college graduate 

The degree is NOT just important for landing your first job. Also, when companies have layoffs, often those without degrees are among the first to go.

This is something I've never considered.. Interesting. How often does that happen with regards to programmers/IT professionals? Just curious, I honestly have no idea. And surely even without a degree, enough experience/time with the company should provide you a reasonable amount of safety, right? I realize these questions probably have a lot to do with specific circumstances within different businesses.

[tjcaustin]

no idea who is a "college grad" or what is a "grad school". a have a university diploma in applied maths.

Grad school is essentially more college for people that have a diploma.  Master's and Doctorate stuff.

[keyboardlover]

This is something I've never considered.. Interesting. How often does that happen with regards to programmers/IT professionals? Just curious, I honestly have no idea. And surely even without a degree, enough experience/time with the company should provide you a reasonable amount of safety, right? I realize these questions probably have a lot to do with specific circumstances within different businesses.

I am referring specifically to IT professionals but I am sure others are affected as well. Significant tenure with a company is no longer enough to keep you safe and hasn't been for a long time. Unless you are close to retirement, in which case you hope that they offer you a good retirement package. The last company I worked at did this and many of my friends' have as well.

[alaricljs]

I've been in IT since fresh out of high school (coming up on 20yrs).  I have no degree and have never had issues with that.

However, true IT isn't forever... an MBA might be a good idea

[BoxWithADot]

I've been in IT since fresh out of high school (coming up on 20yrs).  I have no degree and have never had issues with that.

However, true IT isn't forever... an MBA might be a good idea

How were you able to secure a job right out of high school, if you don't mind me asking?

I am referring specifically to IT professionals but I am sure others are affected as well. Significant tenure with a company is no longer enough to keep you safe and hasn't been for a long time. Unless you are close to retirement, in which case you hope that they offer you a good retirement package. The last company I worked at did this and many of my friends' have as well.

I see, that isn't exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for haha!

[davkol]

I feel like college is a waste of time

Tons of math have changed the way I think, three semesters of masturbation in Lisp made me a better programmer... Academia is also full of smart people, most of them are willing to share their knowledge and stuff.

BTW I guess I'll have to work until 70/death, and it won't be easy due to ongoing/incoming crisis. Few years of enjoying life (compared to working long hours and worrying about everything) and getting extra knowledge/skills that are useful in the long term doesn't sound like a waste of time... at least to me.

[alaricljs]

How were you able to secure a job right out of high school, if you don't mind me asking?

I knew someone in the company that knew there was a position coming up, they needed it filled asap and I got my resume in first.  Basic Solaris admin work and a willingness to get my hands dirty (literally).  My resume consisted of zero job experience and personal possession of and experience with some of Sun's hardware.

[keyboardlover]

I see, that isn't exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for haha!

Put it this way: IMO there are more positives to negatives in terms of finishing the degree. Just Do It!!

A little about me: I've been working full-time as a developer for about 7 years now. Most recent 4 years specifically with .NET technologies. I'm also a coach for Interns and often find myself suggesting ways to help them keep on track. Like telling them to close out of Steam, turn off their XBox, log out of forums like GH, and write your damn paper!

[jcrouse]

If you are actual college age, get a masters also and learn a second language. You will not regret it in 20 years. It is much more difficult later, after life happens.

[keyboardlover]

Agreed. I got my masters part time while in my first job, it took me two years and my employer paid for half. I learned a lot and I'm glad I did it.

[asura]

Masters degree in architecture, and though I'm barely using it at the moment, I wouldn't go back and change it.  It taught me so much beyond my speciality and the social experience both with my cohort and the larger university community as a whole.

[samwisekoi]

Just wondering how many of you are college grads on Geekhack, if I had to guess it seems like it would be a fair number. It also seems like many of you are involved in IT/Programming fields. The reason I'm wondering is because lately I feel like college is a waste of time, and I'm paying for a piece of paper that won't particularly matter once I have 4-5 years of job experience. I'm currently studying computer science, I find the coursework interesting but not particularly useful with regards to real world scenarios. The "core curriculum" classes like political science are a complete waste of time IMO. Just curious about what GH thinks about the subject, especially those of you working in IT/programming.

IT Guy with IT undergrad and MBA here.  I am running an IT/Engineering company now, but while I was still in IT, having the BS gave me an edge in job opportunities over those without.  Also, many HR departments will just discard resumes without some four-year degree.

So even if the day-to-day utility is low, having the degree will help you getting jobs and promotions.

And for moving up the IT chain, having the undergrad degree is needed for grad school.  And a MSCS or MBA will definitely help you move up in IT.  I got my MBA and rose quite quickly as high as CIO.  (A job I wouldn't wish on an enemy, but that is another story.)

If nothing else, completing a four-year degree tells prospective hiring managers that you can tackle long-term projects and work them to completion.  That is an attribute worth the effort, IMHO.

So there is two cents from an IT guy who lived through all of the stages, including the one you are in.

Hang in there!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[DanGWanG]

I am a college grad with a bachelors in the most bull**** degree:  Business Management with concentration in Operations.  What do I do today?  I'm a salesman for an IT based company that transforms healthcare data into a usable data mining tool. 

For the past 3.5 years of my adult career history, I was a business analyst that coordinated with IT professionals on a daily basis and in fact I learned a lot about data warehousing in general.  My degree honestly doesn't help with anything I do today, other than some good time management and people skills.  Had I gone into something like Management Information Systems (MIS), it would have been a lot easier to fit into the role I'm in today.

What I will say is, this stupid piece of paper you're referring to is what's going to ALLOW you to put your foot in the door.  Computer Science is always going to be a good degree also.

[Malphas]

A good degree is useful as long as it's in combination with work/internship experience, a bunch of lies on your CV, personal connections, etc. A bad/mediocre degree is worthless. A good degree by itself isn't worth much either.

[keyboardlover]

A good degree is useful as long as it's in combination with work/internship experience, a bunch of lies on your CV, personal connections, etc. A bad/mediocre degree is worthless. A good degree by itself isn't worth much either.

Lying on your CV or Resume is one of the dumbest things anyone can do. DON'T do it.

[iri]

i think this "lies" has different meaning

[BoxWithADot]

I really appreciate all the feedback everyone, thanks! It's always good to be able to look at this from other perspectives. For now I guess I'll keep chugging energy drinks and studying for finals haha..

[Kellybear]

Good luck with your finals. :]

[bavman]

I'm withya dude. 4 hours till my next final and I should probably start studying, but I have no motivation. Good thing it'll be easy...hopefully.

[Malphas]

A good degree is useful as long as it's in combination with work/internship experience, a bunch of lies on your CV, personal connections, etc. A bad/mediocre degree is worthless. A good degree by itself isn't worth much either.

Lying on your CV or Resume is one of the dumbest things anyone can do. DON'T do it.

Oh please, you just make up lies that can't be verified one way or another. And the consequences even if you do get found out are minimal. You lose a job you wouldn't have otherwise got in the first place anyway? Big deal.

[clickclack]

Surely it can't be one of the dumbest things if WE ALL have likely indulged in it. Right? LoL
Thought of making a not so subtle analogy to masturbation, however, twas too easy.
I don't remember the last one I read that didn't have a pretty impressive fib in it. I even recall in courses designed around the ever intimidating CV, Resume, Portfolio the general push was to strE T C H the truth.

[swagpiratex]

Graduated college with a degree in financial analysis, currently working at a friend's firm turning it around cuz it's been a tough year.

[Findecanor]

I have a Master's degree in "Computer and Systems Sciences". I got the Master's because I had a genuine interest in computer science and was considering an academic career.

In my experience, a degree is an absolute must to be able to get in the door for many positions, but a MSc is not that much better than a BSc.  Unfortunately, there is also a lot of narrowmindedness and ageism in IT recruiting. If you don't have more than average experience in precisely what they are hiring for, you'd better have youth.
The worst thing that you could do is to start college and drop out -- that would only make HR people question if you would be able to commit to anything.
Stay in college and don't forget to enjoy college life while you are at it!

[oneproduct]

Just finished my bachelor's in computer science and a series of interviews. I had a near perfect GPA but what really caught attention during interviews were my personal projects, mostly a mod I did for a video game (which got me a programming job at a game company). Barring that, I would definitely try to do a co-op program and get some experience at the same time.

Also, as Findecanor said, enjoy college. I didn't realize how fun it could be during my first year or so, but after that it was great hanging out with friends and just talking all the time. When you leave school you don't have so many awesome people to interact with on a daily basis and to fight through assignments and finals together with (which is pretty enlivening).

[metalliqaz]

What game did you mod?

[keyboardlover]

Oh please, you just make up lies that can't be verified one way or another. And the consequences even if you do get found out are minimal. You lose a job you wouldn't have otherwise got in the first place anyway? Big deal.

Losing your job or not getting one is minimal? Here in the USA they DO verify all that information and, doing that at one employer would surely NOT look good if you tried to get a job there later in life. They call your references, previous employers and schools where you got your degrees from. Not only is it idiotic to lie, it's dishonest and unethical. Your work should speak for itself.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I got my Bachelors in Chemistry a couple years ago, and finishing up graduate school for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology hopefully soon.

For those that are seeing a degree as just a piece of paper, you're approaching it the wrong way. Sure, a piece of paper is not worth much, but look further into what that piece of paper means. Even if you don't remember a single academic thing when you graduate, that piece of paper still represents some form of responsibility and perseverance; something that employers will value. This is why that piece of paper is used to screen potential employees.

But that's actually a rather superficial way to look at it. You can gain much more than a potential job from finishing school. If you're paying for the tuition, you might as well try to get the most out of it. If you go to lecture and daydream instead of paying attention, then not only did you just completely wasted your own time, you'll have to later learn it on your own for the exams anyways. Every day you learn something in lecture, even if you'll never use it for the rest of your life, then you'll still be that much smarter than the general mass. And getting the most out of your paid education isn't just the little things you're memorizing, but more importantly is how to critically think; something that I noticed was lacking in the general mass as well.

In graduate school, ironically I "learn" the most when all the material was not spoon-fed or forced, unlike my undergraduate studies. The PI acts as a mentor to guide you, and most of the learning processes is independent and self-taught.

[YMSNoms]

I qualified with 2 Certifications in IT Support and ITIL Incident management. a CCNA and a few meaningless NVQ's lol

[precarious]

Here in the USA they DO verify all that information and,

This is absolutely not a fact.

[keyboardlover]

This is absolutely not a fact.

Just because not every organization does, doesn't mean many don't. Both organizations I have worked at definitely did/do and it definitely behooves you to assume that they all do.

[precarious]

Just sayin' it's not necessarily true

[Malphas]

Here in the USA they DO verify all that information

lol http://www.cracked.com/article_19145_the-6-most-impressive-resume-liars.html

It's always the case that for every one that got caught like those examples there'll be an order of magnitude more that got away with it.

[cwang1004]

Degree is over rated. GPA is over rated.

Especially if you are a science major, those bull**** won't matter as long as you know your stuff.

If you can implement something like a max-flow algorithm to some rl problem on a whiteboard with within a few bugs on the fly, you are ****ing hired. bam, like that.

Be honest with this dude here alright? CS ain't about going to classes listening to some synchronization lecture/network theories/NP ****. It's about love. If you don't love the stuff, you won't skip classes and writeyour own multi threaded calculator for fun, and you won't write your own mini java library for string manipulations because you think the built in is trash, and of course you won't think about a feasible strategy for a better factoring algorithm at night. And guess what, those are the things that make you a great one in the field.

Honestly, who cares if you have a bull**** degree or a 3.9 GPA if you've been doing all the above for the years in college.

If you are not very interested, possibly steeped into the field because you thought "oh hey i like computer games, and watch porns, let me study CS!" Well, too bad, you are not going to be very good at this **** if you don't like the ****s. So, if you are just hoping to stay medioker and hopefully fool some stupid **** to employ you, it's fine, it will happen before you are no longer counted in the workforce. But...that's the kind of bull**** life you wanna give to your children? I've no problem with that. just sayin

[keyboardlover]

Honestly, who cares if you have a bull**** degree or a 3.9 GPA if you've been doing all the above for the years in college.

Most employers do. It's fine if you have a problem with that, but that is reality. And like I said, it's not just about landing a job. When it comes time for layoffs, it's one of many things that can help you keep your job.

[cwang1004]

Honestly, who cares if you have a bull**** degree or a 3.9 GPA if you've been doing all the above for the years in college.

Most employers do. It's fine if you have a problem with that, but that is reality. And like I said, it's not just about landing a job. When it comes time for layoffs, it's one of many things that can help you keep your job.

I don't have a problem with it at all. I never needed to worry about a job. Actually, I never wanted to work for others. If I were to employ some CS grad, I ain't gonna look at his GPA at all. If you pass the interview, you get the job.