[RIP] No More Elvish (Sindarin) Keycap Set

[Matt3o]

possibly, but think how frustrating it is for Ron and me. I spent something like 500hours designing and discussing this keyboard, this stall is killing me but -you know- they are just keycaps.

[cobraj]

possibly, but think how frustrating it is for Ron and me. I spent something like 500hours designing and discussing this keyboard, this stall is killing me but -you know- they are just keycaps.

Wow.
That is so impressive.
Did not realise it would take that long.
But I suppose there are just so many things I haven't even considered about it haha

[Matt3o]

you should really read this http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38264.msg842147#msg842147
designing a Sindarin keyboard is not easy

[mauri]

I'd be very interested in the set if there were iso shift+enter etc

[blueasjim]

I just hoped we could get it up to 50 orders. A good $14 drop.

I suppose once a final price is decided on, people will come out and buy. Has there been a final price yet?

[tradet]

I would be interested if it would be possible to fill the GH60 max keys layout. With the wonderful green/white color scheme and I would be willing to pay 170$ if above are possible.

[samwisekoi]

We did the layout for a 104-key set, but didn't do that one to keep costs down.

Now, it seems like the difference in cost for another 17 keys would be small relative to the total delivered cost, so are there any/many people who would jump in for a Green and Cream PBT full set?

Please post your thoughts.

Thanks!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[WhiteFireDragon]

I have no need for the extra keypad set, but I'll be ok with them as long as it's not more than a $20 price increase. I just really want this set to work out.

[Halverson]

I have no need for the extra keypad set, but I'll be ok with them as long as it's not more than a $20 price increase. I just really want this set to work out.

Same for me.

[cytoSiN]

What the last two said.

[weasle425]

I agree, I really want this to work out

[tradet]

I wouldn't mind the numpad set.

So to fill out a full GH60 I would need:

Left shift: 1.25x + 1x
Right shift: 1.75x + 1x
Enter: 1x + 1.25x
Backspace 1x 1x

All 1x keys I could source from arrows, numpad or end/home keys but I would need a 1.25x and a 1.75x for the second row and a 1.25x for the third row. Would this be possible to arrange? The ideal would be to have the same legends for the shifts and enter key.

And I'm correct to assume that the profile for the number row and the esc/function row are the same?

[samwisekoi]

I wouldn't mind the numpad set.

So to fill out a full GH60 I would need:

Left shift: 1.25x + 1x
Right shift: 1.75x + 1x
Enter: 1x + 1.25x
Backspace 1x 1x

All 1x keys I could source from arrows, numpad or end/home keys but I would need a 1.25x and a 1.75x for the second row and a 1.25x for the third row. Would this be possible to arrange? The ideal would be to have the same legends for the shifts and enter key.

And I'm correct to assume that the profile for the number row and the esc/function row are the same?

Last to first, yes, the top two rows have the same profile.  The bottom two rows have another matching profile.  So using SP numbering, from top to bottom on a TKL/104-key keyboard, the row profiles are:

1  Esc...
1  Tilde...
2  QWER...
3  ASDF...
4  ZXCV...
4  Spacebar and mods

Second, in many group buys, the small set of extras you mentioned would be available, but this is such a very small group buy that only the basic 87 or possibly 104-key sets will be made.  I'll note that you could use this set quite nicely on an ANSI/Poker layout GH60.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[tradet]

I wouldn't mind the numpad set.

So to fill out a full GH60 I would need:

Left shift: 1.25x + 1x
Right shift: 1.75x + 1x
Enter: 1x + 1.25x
Backspace 1x 1x

All 1x keys I could source from arrows, numpad or end/home keys but I would need a 1.25x and a 1.75x for the second row and a 1.25x for the third row. Would this be possible to arrange? The ideal would be to have the same legends for the shifts and enter key.

And I'm correct to assume that the profile for the number row and the esc/function row are the same?

Last to first, yes, the top two rows have the same profile.  The bottom two rows have another matching profile.  So using SP numbering, from top to bottom on a TKL/104-key keyboard, the row profiles are:

1  Esc...
1  Tilde...
2  QWER...
3  ASDF...
4  ZXCV...
4  Spacebar and mods

Second, in many group buys, the small set of extras you mentioned would be available, but this is such a very small group buy that only the basic 87 or possibly 104-key sets will be made.  I'll note that you could use this set quite nicely on an ANSI/Poker layout GH60.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

Thanks for the response. It's a little bit sad as the concept is amazing.

[Bencze]

I'm really not THAT much into the fantasy theme but this is a really amazing effort, I'll keep an eye on this thread, hope you guys succeed.
Now if we only had a similar klingon gb.

[findingthelimit]

I wouldn't mind the numpad set.

So to fill out a full GH60 I would need:

Left shift: 1.25x + 1x
Right shift: 1.75x + 1x
Enter: 1x + 1.25x
Backspace 1x 1x

All 1x keys I could source from arrows, numpad or end/home keys but I would need a 1.25x and a 1.75x for the second row and a 1.25x for the third row. Would this be possible to arrange? The ideal would be to have the same legends for the shifts and enter key.

And I'm correct to assume that the profile for the number row and the esc/function row are the same?

Last to first, yes, the top two rows have the same profile.  The bottom two rows have another matching profile.  So using SP numbering, from top to bottom on a TKL/104-key keyboard, the row profiles are:

1  Esc...
1  Tilde...
2  QWER...
3  ASDF...
4  ZXCV...
4  Spacebar and mods

Second, in many group buys, the small set of extras you mentioned would be available, but this is such a very small group buy that only the basic 87 or possibly 104-key sets will be made.  I'll note that you could use this set quite nicely on an ANSI/Poker layout GH60.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

Any progress with the GB? I've been constantly checking, haha. Are you guys still looking for more people interested in the set? This is a really amazing design, probably the best I've seen on GH, and even though the price is expensive compared to the raindrop / sanctuary sets, i'm probably still end up buying it without hesitation.

D:

[blueasjim]

I wouldn't mind the numpad set.

So to fill out a full GH60 I would need:

Left shift: 1.25x + 1x
Right shift: 1.75x + 1x
Enter: 1x + 1.25x
Backspace 1x 1x

All 1x keys I could source from arrows, numpad or end/home keys but I would need a 1.25x and a 1.75x for the second row and a 1.25x for the third row. Would this be possible to arrange? The ideal would be to have the same legends for the shifts and enter key.

And I'm correct to assume that the profile for the number row and the esc/function row are the same?

Last to first, yes, the top two rows have the same profile.  The bottom two rows have another matching profile.  So using SP numbering, from top to bottom on a TKL/104-key keyboard, the row profiles are:

1  Esc...
1  Tilde...
2  QWER...
3  ASDF...
4  ZXCV...
4  Spacebar and mods

Second, in many group buys, the small set of extras you mentioned would be available, but this is such a very small group buy that only the basic 87 or possibly 104-key sets will be made.  I'll note that you could use this set quite nicely on an ANSI/Poker layout GH60.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

Any progress with the GB? I've been constantly checking, haha. Are you guys still looking for more people interested in the set? This is a really amazing design, probably the best I've seen on GH, and even though the price is expensive compared to the raindrop / sanctuary sets, i'm probably still end up buying it without hesitation.

D:

Same, updates would be kool. I love the idea of this set and do you have a pic of the regular ESC key without geekhack script?

[naokira]

Please make this happen. 

[samwisekoi]

Update:

We will make this happen.  It is not actively being worked as we finish Retro DSA, but we have not forgotten it.

Colors have been picked, we have both TKL and 104-key designs, all we need is bandwidth to execute.

Just not yet.

Also...


Sindarin (Elvish) Escape Key

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[naokira]

Wonderful!! Cant wait to put it on my Poker II!

[Matt3o]

I have to make a wooden case for this set...

[WhiteFireDragon]

I'm guessing no updates to the high pricing? That's probably the biggest factor for most people right now.

[weasle425]

Update:

We will make this happen.  It is not actively being worked as we finish Retro DSA, but we have not forgotten it.

Colors have been picked, we have both TKL and 104-key designs, all we need is bandwidth to execute.

Just not yet.

Also...

(Attachment Link)
Sindarin (Elvish) Escape Key

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

Are the colors going to remain the same as first proposed?

[samwisekoi]

Are the colors going to remain the same as first proposed?

They will be the Green and Cream colors shown in the OP.

I'm guessing no updates to the high pricing? That's probably the biggest factor for most people right now.

Well, no updates, but I tell you what.  Running this current group buy has given us some really, really good information to use WHEN we get back to this project.

Hmmm.  That gives me an idea.  What about Elvish in DSA so people can arrange the keycaps however they choose?  Matt3o, let's think on that off-line.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[esoomenona]

I don't think I like that idea. DSA is nice and all, but not everything should be on them...

[samwisekoi]

I don't think I like that idea. DSA is nice and all, but not everything should be on them...

Your esoom call has been heard.  Or herd?

[Halverson]

I don't think I like that idea. DSA is nice and all, but not everything should be on them...

Your esoom call has been heard.  Or herd?

Girlshark agrees with his enemy moose.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I don't think I like that idea. DSA is nice and all, but not everything should be on them...

Your esoom call has been heard.  Or herd?

Girlshark agrees with his enemy moose.

Agreed. But if it's really important, have a vote because this is only 3 opinions out of a few dozen.

[Matt3o]

Hmmm.  That gives me an idea.  What about Elvish in DSA so people can arrange the keycaps however they choose?  Matt3o, let's think on that off-line.

Elven... PBT... DSA...

do I even need to think about it?

[Glod]

DSA? Elvish on ErgoDox!, add in some 2x, 1.5x, and 1x blanks. ill pay for that!

DSA haters gonna hate.

[stoic-lemon]

I'm down for whatever. I would buy either.

[samwisekoi]

WATCH THIS SPACE FOR AN UPDATE COMING SOON!
- Ron | samwisekoi | 2013-05-31

[esoomenona]

I keep watching and nothing happens...

[samwisekoi]

I keep watching and nothing happens...

Well, not THAT soon.

Seriously, with the completion of Retro DSA shipping (hooray!) I'm going to try to get this one in and out as well.  I have requested a quote for a full set (plus 13 extra spacebars for Mettaliqaz) with an expected MOQ of 25 sets, although 50 would be better.  For that few sets, I'll just set out 100% of the keycaps on a Sindarin key-checker so that I will know in advance that every set is complete.

Then, to control costs, I'll have them shipped to me, I will check them, and then transfer ownership to the buyer here.  Then YOU will have an Elvish keycap set HERE, and YOU can decide how much YOU want to spend to get it to you THERE.  I'll send it to you via whatever method, speed, and insurance level YOU prefer and want to fund.  Want it expressed with full insurance?  Fine by me.  Want it sent first class on a slow boat around the world?  Also fine by me.  Heck, come by my office and pick them up in person.

Anyhow, I'll get a fresh quote, we'll see if people actually want to pay for these, and if so we'll get them made.

Thinking out loud here, I think a RainDrop-style sign-up and pay order form is the way to go for these.  That way we will know who is serious and who is just kicking tires.

Now, to set expectations more clearly, no MORE updates until Monday at the earliest.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Matt3o]

Okay people, this is the post you were waiting for and I'm gonna make you an offer that you can't refuse.

We've got quotes for full 104-ANSI keycaps in both DCS and DSA form.

First of all, face the cold truth: we won't never reach 50 tier.

A DCS set at 25 tier should be approx $143+shipping (paypal fees included)
A DSA set at 25 tier should be approx $116+shipping (paypal fees included)

As you certainly know DSA family caps are all on the same profile, you can mix and match them in any way. If you really want an Elven Language set this DSA trait is pure heaven!

Initially we spent weeks designing the perfect (DCS) Sindarin layout and at the end we chose the one that was aesthetically pleasing, but with DSA you don't have to compromise.

Do you want a layout compatible with the existing Sindarin TTF? You have it.
Do you want a layout for english-sindarin transliteration? You have it.
Do you want a nice rational layout (Matt3o's)? You have it.

We will post at least 3 layouts in this thread and you will be free to choose the one you like the most.

If to that you add that DSA costs $30 less than DCS there's no reason on Earth to go DCS.

Let me stress on this: PBT !!! DYE SUB !!! DSA !!! SINDARIN !!! You are going to have the most ****ing awesome and unique set on the ****ing planet!

So this is the plan:

We set up a form where you place your order AND pay right away. When we reach the deadline the order is placed with SP and production will take at least a couple of months.

If for any inexplicable reason we'll reach 50 tier, you'll get a refund.

Considering that we all had quite a long time to think about this set, the window for ordering/paying will be quite small. If we do not reach 25 tier (or pretty close to it) the GB will be cancelled and this set will never see the light.

TL;DR
- DSA is just perfect for Sindarin
- DSA is cheaper than DCS
- We are going to have DSA family
- If you don't like it you are a booby
- Price will be fixed at 25 tier and you'll pay as soon as you place your order

[jdcarpe]

- If you don't like it you are a booby

True dat.

[Sai]

thats sound cool. although i don't quite like the DSA profile, i would be in for the sake of Sindarin.

just one question, how long do you intend to take payment ?
As i am moving house at the end of this month, i need to plan my money.

[naokira]

Finally!! However, I can only order from june 20 onwards

[stoic-lemon]

Okay. Okay. I'm in. Yes. I'm in.

[guilleguillaume]

The reason why I lost interest in this was because of the DCS choice instead of DSA as we talked in the IC thread. If you're planning to get DSA profile I'm absolutely in.

[Tarzan]

DSA 104-key Sindarin set for $116+SH?  Yes, absolutely I'm in.

[samwisekoi]

OK, I will make up an order form (or get some help to do so.)  It will be open until 08-July-2013 at NOON PDT.  If we have 25 paid orders, I will send the money to SP and we will start waiting.  If not, well, this was fun while it lasted.

The model will be as follows:

One Price = Plastic + Bulk Shipping (to me) + packing material and US shipping + CA Sales Tax if applicable + PayPal fees.

I will hand-sort each set before packaging.  If you give me a US ship-to address, you are done.  If you want it shipped elsewhere, we will work out how and how much and I will send you an invoice for any difference.

I will work up the exact amount and post it before the order page goes up.

One other question:  Is anyone interested in additional sets without legends?  If there is enough interest to reduce the set cost of the Sindarin keycaps, we will consider adding blank green/cream PBT sets as an add-on option.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[esoomenona]

Blanks in both colors for 1x (relegendables possible?), 1.25x, 1.5x and 2x.

Edit: also, tsangan.

[JPG]

Whoaaaa Moose has not been gone for long! 

[Tarzan]

Blanks in both colors for 1x (relegendables possible?), 1.25x, 1.5x and 2x.

Edit: also, tsangan.

+1.  Blanks - yes, and tsangan too if possible.

[Sai]

+1 for tsangan.

[samwisekoi]

Blanks in both colors for 1x (relegendables possible?), 1.25x, 1.5x and 2x.

Edit: also, tsangan.

+1.  Blanks - yes, and tsangan too if possible.

And so the feature-creep begins...

The current plan is for full sets only, but the Tsangan question seems valid.  Consider it being under consideration.

I tell you what, however, there is no way I am going to do the "how many blanks does THIS guy want?" dance anytime soon.  That was a nightmare in Retro DSA.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

Sorry for the double post, but this news is just in, and it deserves its own post:

If we add full blank sets, then prices for everything goes down.  If we buy 25 printed sets PLUS 25 blank sets, then prices for Sindarin sets drop by $15 per set, and the blank sets would be around $50.

That means for an extra $35 (plus S/H & PP) you would get an additional full set of blank Green and Cream PBT keycaps!

Ok, I am going to do pricing based on an MOQ of 25 Green and Cream PBT Sindarin sets plus 25 full sets of blank Green and Cream PBT keycaps.

And possibly a dang Tsangan kit...

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Matt3o]

and I want relegendables and 2u-2stems, and a 10u spacebar, oh yes and not standard ISO return in a different color...

[samwisekoi]

Okay, kids.

Here are the calculated prices for Sindarin and matching blank Green and Cream PBT 104+2 full sets.  (ABS spacebar as always.)

MOQ = 25 of each set.

Item	Sindarin	Blank	Total
Plastic	95.33	44.08	139.41
Collation	incl.	5.30	5.30
Bulk Shipping	1.00	1.00	2.00
Sub-Total (RAW)	96.33	50.38	146.71
Packing	4.67	2.08	6.75
Shipping	5.50	5.50	11.00
S&H	10.17	7.58	17.75
Sub-Total CONUS	106.50	57.96	164.46
PayPal fee	3.50	2.04	5.54
Total Shipped	110.00	60.00	170.00
California Sales Tax	8.68	4.54	13.22

         

As far as we know, the above is correct and final.  No word on Tsangan yet.  Current plans are for the blank sets to be an add-on for Sindarin buyers.  The prices above are absolutely for Sindarin buyers.

And as mentioned previously, if your ship-to is outside of CONUS, then YOU choose mailing method, speed, and insurance, YOU accept responsibility for shipping, and YOU pay whatever YOU want to pay to get it to YOUR location.

 - Ron | samwisekoi



[update]

Tsangan kits at MOQ of 10 sets would be $18 per set for blanks or $39 per set with legends dye-sublimated.  (Those numbers do NOT include shipping, PayPal fees or anything else.)

Yes or no?  If yes, which one?

[/update]